Ren'Py Vae Victis - Khan: Conquer, Ravish, Breed [v0.13.4] [Doorknob22]

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Stil996

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Jan 11, 2018
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PVNUser said:
While that's true, it's reasonable to restate this criticism as, "The RPS single combat in this game isn't very fun or engaging." I'd agree with that criticism. Beyond that, how do we actually make this mechanic fun? That's less clear.

Some suggestions:

  • While the core concept of Riposte, Parry, Slash attacks is fine, I feel this system is overcomplicated due to the inclusion of Aggressive, Normal, Defensive, and Subdue intensity levels. A simple system now becomes complicated.
    • I would probably simplify this to just Aggressive/Defensive intensity levels. I don't see a need for specific "Subdue" intensity, and "Normal" intensity is just pointless
      • Follow-up suggestion: Since this suggestion removes "Subdue" attacks, players would be given the prompt after a battle on how they want to resolve it (for combats where Subdue is relevant).
    • Slightly less simplified version: Keep "Aggressive", "Defensive", "Subdue" intensity, but drop "Normal." This is basically the same, but we drop it down to 9 possible actions per turn instead of 12. That's a lot more manageable.
  • I am not a fan of the GUI for duels at all. I think this screen is poorly laid out, and this is one of the bigger reasons why the combat feels bad and unrewarding.
    • Here is a concept art I created for a possible way to improve the screen. I will discuss & explain each element View attachment 2044859
    • I dislike how the current screen focuses attention on this circular button setup. I want to see the characters in the fight. The characters are interesting to look at, the circular button thing is not.
      • Ideally, what would happen with the combat screens is that each character would have different poses for different upcoming attacks. (ex. If your enemy's next attack will be "Slash" then you will see the enemy character sprite show as "Enemy_Slash1" (or a variation, 2, 3, etc). This would allow players to actually "see" the battle by watching the enemy's sprite, then choosing the correct response. That is much more interesting and visceral than reading text.
      • Health bars are drawn over the character sprites. This is Important information, so it goes in the center of the screen.
      • Not depicted: I dislike how the current battle screen is completely blacked out. When the player fights a Goblin in a cave or a Wench in her castle, it would be cooler if we could actually see renders in the background.
    • I removed the overly-complicated circular button setup, instead now there are 4 buttons.
      • First button is a drop-down or toggle button, allowing the player to switch between the different stances (e.g. "Aggressive", "Defensive" etc)
      • The next three buttons are your primary attacks. Much simpler presentation and easier to read & click.
    • Over on the right we have a Combat Log
      • The combat log depicts turns in the battle sequentially. No more reading a text box to try and parse out what move the enemy used.
      • Presenting your move and the opponent's move drastically clarifies what happened in a given turn
      • Results of the actions are also depicted, showing damage done & using color coding to demonstrate if your move was good or bad.
Let me know what you think about this.
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Replied in #54 since this might be OT for this thread Vae Victis - Khan: metagame discussion might be a better place
 
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Stil996

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RandyTyr said:
I don't enjoy the combat system either. That's why I just click the chicken and enjoy the rest of the game, which is amazing.
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Name one Porn game with a "good" combat system, I know I've never seen one, I think the one in play here is about as good as you can hope for without a serious investment of time and energy that might be better spent on porn.
 
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Stil996

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Xantoser said:
In my opinion Sengoku Rance has decent gameplay.
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Refresh my memory about what that combat system was like? I seem to remember it as being essentially RPGM style with a little extra boost for the armies. I don't remember anything about the one on one combat.
 
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RandyTyr

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Stil996 said:
Name one Porn game with a "good" combat system, I know I've never seen one, I think the one in play here is about as good as you can hope for without a serious investment of time and energy that might be better spent on porn.
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I'm not attacking Doorknob's design here. In fact, on paper the idea makes sense to me. In practise however, the effort it takes to memorise the enemies pattern is utterly disproportionate to the accomplishment I personally feel for doing so (memorising is a skill I'm not too good at, and one I don't value). Thus, I click the chicken, and enjoy the game. Problem solved.

Some RPGM games have a combat system I do enjoy, eg Roundscape Adoveria or Meltys' Quest. But comparing RPGM to Renpy here feels a bit unfair. Renpy games with combat systems I have played are Tales of Terrara and Raven's Quest, in both cases I feel rather neutral about them (the latter is too grindy for my taste though). My own game is due to get a combat system soonish. We'll see whether I can do better then :) [of course, "better" here is a very subjective criterion].
 
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Stil996

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RandyTyr said:
I'm not attacking Doorknob's design here. In fact, on paper the idea makes sense to me. In practise however, the effort it takes to memorise the enemies pattern is utterly disproportionate to the accomplishment I personally feel for doing so (memorising is a skill I'm not too good at, and one I don't value). Thus, I click the chicken, and enjoy the game. Problem solved.

Some RPGM games have a combat system I do enjoy, eg Roundscape Adoveria or Meltys' Quest. But comparing RPGM to Renpy here feels a bit unfair. Renpy games with combat systems I have played are Tales of Terrara and Raven's Quest, in both cases I feel rather neutral about them (the latter is too grindy for my taste though). My own game is due to get a combat system soonish. We'll see whether I can do better then :) [of course, "better" here is a very subjective criterion].
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I wasn't trying to suggest that you were attacking anyone, my point was simply that I personally haven't seen any combat systems in porn games that I liked. IMO The rock, paper, scissor approach seems as good as any and better than most.
I'm not sure I've played any of these games you mentioned, the RPGM style in general bores me though.
 
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Xantoser

Xantoser

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Apr 28, 2020
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Stil996 said:
Refresh my memory about what that combat system was like? I seem to remember it as being essentially RPGM style with a little extra boost for the armies. I don't remember anything about the one on one combat.
Click to expand...
Like you said, that was standard turn-based combat, with buffs-debuffs, magic, attack, defend etc. But what matter most is not an idea (it is very hard to invent something new) but the execution. IMO there was good balance between many things. Number of items/abilities/mechanics in comparison with the usability and length of the game, for example (I don't like too high number of useless items or mechanics that don't matter). Lack of "single trick" to win all battles. Hard to explain because devil is in the details but I remember that gameplay was overall fun.

Sorry for offtop Doorknob22
 
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Stil996

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Jan 11, 2018
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Xantoser said:
Like you said, that was standard turn-based combat, with buffs-debuffs, magic, attack, defend etc. But what matter most is not an idea (it is very hard to invent something new) but the execution. IMO there was good balance between many things. Number of items/abilities/mechanics in comparison with the usability and length of the game, for example (I don't like too high number of useless items or mechanics that don't matter). Lack of "single trick" to win all battles. Hard to explain because devil is in the details but I remember that gameplay was overall fun.

Sorry for offtop Doorknob22
Click to expand...
Yeah, thats what I meant when I said
Stil996 said:
...as good as you can hope for without a serious investment of time and energy that might be better spent on porn.
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Having a good combat system is cool, but there doesn't seem to be much you can do within the scope of these engines. And even if Doorknob22 had that level of skill/knowledge is it worth it for a story based porn game. Actual AAA RPGs and Slash-em-ups tend to struggle with decent combat systems never mind doing it in Renpy.
 
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whichone

whichone

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RandyTyr said:
In practise however, the effort it takes to memorise the enemies pattern is utterly disproportionate to the accomplishment I personally feel for doing so (memorising is a skill I'm not too good at, and one I don't value).
Click to expand...
You don't need to memorise, just open Notepad & write the pattern down.
It's not difficult & takes fuck all effort.
 
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Xantoser

Xantoser

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One more thing. When I first played Vae Victis I thought "Holy shit! Finally western version of Sengoku Rance *. Gwahaha! I will conquer and rape entire world!" :D

*Not in term battle mechanic.
 
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muschi26

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Jun 22, 2019
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Stil996 said:
Name one Porn game with a "good" combat system, I know I've never seen one, I think the one in play here is about as good as you can hope for without a serious investment of time and energy that might be better spent on porn.
Click to expand...
Alien Quest: Eve and Iris in the Labyrinth of Demons I find really fun just as regular games (even if they could use some better balancing). Flying Princess: Inter-Breed is also refreshing and fun, even if it's a simple system and has a few glitches (also that can be kinda bullshit at higher difficulties).
 
Doorknob22

Doorknob22

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Sadowdark said:
Alma and Domia?
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My sig has a link to the walkthrough, I updated it recently, but if I remember correctly:

0. If you reveal your true identity to Fahda she will ask you to choose which one to take, so revealing your identity option is a "blocker" for taking both.
1. Domia: Don't choose the Grudge flow, she'll seek employment elsewhere after the adventure is through. (Note to self: Why? Maybe she could join you even if you chose this option?). When you rob the vault, Domia insists that you don't take the full amount. If you fight her, she won't join you.
2. Alam: don't rape her.
3. Fahda (revisit and appoint as a governor): don't rape either Alam or Domia
 
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4.20 star(s) 132 Votes