RPGM Abandoned Valiant Warrior Astrid [v0.5.2] [Dynamiteredgames]

[lolguest]

You are wasting your time and effort. If you think that you have the talent to make a game, then make a game of your own. It will be better received by the players, and you'll be more likely to receive support.

But it's your time and effort to waste, so do as you please.



No, he isn't delusional. He's correct. It's a terrible idea. Rebooting someone else's abandoned game is always a terrible idea. It's been attempted dozens of times on this forum - probably scores of times - and I don't know of a single time when it was successful.

Every time some starry eyed dreamer thinks that they have what it takes to steal someone else's intellectual property and successfully complete the game, they fail. I've seen it happen over and over and over again in the time that I've been here.

Very few people want to support a reboot by an unknown artist, especially if they were really into the game before it was abandoned. They don't trust that someone else can make something comparable to the original. And while you may not care about it being like the original, most of the people who originally supported the game do care.



It's funny that you say this to someone who has been here three-and-a-half years longer than you have, and who has over 10,000 posts to your 4 posts. And it's especially funny when your remarks make it obvious that you are the one who knows little or nothing about how games are developed.

Developing a game is a long and grueling process which involves many layers of hard work. It's not just downloading some 3D assets for Daz and making a few renders. You also have to build game mechanics, compile assets, make maps, and program events. And, of course, you also have to write a story, which by itself is as difficult, time consuming, and energy draining as all of the other work combined.

I agree with almost everything you said. It's hard to try continue a game or make a parody or whatever. It will be hard to get support because people won't trust you in the beggining and, until now, many who tried couldn't make a good continuation.
You made good points and everyone who are thinking to continue any game should read what you said.
But peepee169 is right saying you guys are gatekeeping the game for no reason too.

I may sound repetitive by my other posts, but why it's a steal when DRG was okay to publish his previous game's assets and said: "If some crazy person feels like extending the existing content and wanted to share it online, feel free. Just give me credit as the original author. But I won't be involved in any way. Oh, and you can't charge money for it." ?
Why are we even talking about stealing in a forum filled with free downloads of paid games?
Parodies can be under fair-use of Copyright and depending of the country of the new creator can be fully, entirely legal, so it's not stealing too.

You guys say you care about the game but sound more like you just don't want anybody touching it like you own the thing. Caring about something is wanting it alive, real and having a proper finish. Maybe you are mixing it up with possessing it which is more related to creating a control and restraint over the game. People who care about the game would quickly go over a new version and say things like "amazing" or say a constructive criticism like "I didn't like your game because of this and that".

Not only models were awesome, there's a lot of mechanisms in VWA using RPGM that no one tried to recreate until now and talking about mechanisms, the lessons Astrid can take in the academy is a big parody of Akabur's Witch Trainer game... So, yeah, imagine his fans saying DRG is an asshole because he "copied" Akabur's idea.

Outside porn games there are a lot of amazing fanmade work. Black Mesa is a very good recreation of Half-Life that even Steam recognized it. Skyrim is still selling because Bethesda keeps milking fan creations. Some dudes messed with Warcraft III and created Dota, then some other people made League of Legends and HoN. How many copies of Vampire Survivors are out there already? A lot are as good as the original. You may say no game surpassed Stardew Valley, but it was heavily inspired by Harvest Moon, the original farm game.

You got the point, so why don't we just let people do their magic?

 

[TheLecher]

I agree with almost everything you said. It's hard to try continue a game or make a parody or whatever. It will be hard to get support because people won't trust you in the beggining and, until now, many who tried couldn't make a good continuation.
You made good points and everyone who are thinking to continue any game should read what you said.
But peepee169 is right saying you guys are gatekeeping the game for no reason too.

I'm not gatekeeping. Did you not read this line from my previous post?

But it's your time and effort to waste, so do as you please.

SukhiX wants someone to collaborate on a remake of this game, but that's just not going to work out. After watching her post about it several times over the past two weeks, I decided to break the bad news to her, so that she can move on to more fruitful pursuits.

She's free to try to prove me wrong. I'm not going to do a single thing to hinder her efforts. But I thought someone should be honest with her about her chances of success.

I may sound repetitive by my other posts, but why it's a steal when DRG was okay to publish his previous game's assets and said: "If some crazy person feels like extending the existing content and wanted to share it online, feel free. Just give me credit as the original author. But I won't be involved in any way. Oh, and you can't charge money for it." ?

Yes, DRG gave people permission to carry on his previous game, Valentina's Story. And how did that work out? The attempted remake was abandoned more quickly than the original game. And that's what always happens when someone other than the original creator tries to carry on with an abandoned game.

But the fact that DRG gave people permission to carry on with VS does not automatically mean that he'd be okay with them doing the same with VWA. Maybe he would, and maybe he wouldn't. We can't ask him.

Also, his restriction that anyone carrying on with his previous game couldn't charge money or ask for monetary support was a project killer. It costs money to make a game. And it costs a hell of a lot of time and effort and trouble. And if you can't get any money for your efforts, then you're going to burn out all the sooner.

Why are we even talking about stealing in a forum filled with free downloads of paid games?

I think you and I have had this conversation before, but I'll repeat what I've said in the past. Not everyone here on F95 Zone is a pirate. Not all of us are okay with stealing from creators. Some of us use this site as a way of finding new games, interacting with people who share our interests, and maybe interacting with the game developers.

Yes, I understand that this is also a pirate forum. I don't have to approve of that in order to find the forum useful.

You guys say you care about the game but sound more like you just don't want anybody touching it like you own the thing. Caring about something is wanting it alive, real and having a proper finish. Maybe you are mixing it up with possessing it which is more related to creating a control and restraint over the game. People who care about the game would quickly go over a new version and say things like "amazing" or say a constructive criticism like "I didn't like your game because of this and that".

This is the "no true Scotsman" argument, which is a common logical fallacy. You can say that "people who care about the game will only act this way", but I can turn it around and say the same thing, only changing the requirements. I can argue that anyone who truly cared about the game wouldn't want to see it bastardized and cheapened. Neither argument proves that the other person doesn't care. Neither one of us gets to decide who does or doesn't care, or what a person would or would not do if they cared.

As for your accusation that those of us who object to a remake are trying to possess the game, or that we act like we own it, how exactly would someone other than the creator own this game? Do I, as one of the players, have some sort of legal recourse to prevent remakes? Do I have the ability to prevent people from downloading the game? Do I have any ability at all to stop someone from extracting and decompiling the game files?

Tell me exactly how I've acted like I own or possess the game. Explain your absurd accusation.

Not only models were awesome, there's a lot of mechanisms in VWA using RPGM that no one tried to recreate until now and talking about mechanisms, the lessons Astrid can take in the academy is a big parody of Akabur's Witch Trainer game... So, yeah, imagine his fans saying DRG is an asshole because he "copied" Akabur's idea.

Are you suggesting that I don't want people copying the mechanics from this game? When did I say that?

You got the point, so why don't we just let people do their magic?

Explain to me exactly how I'm stopping anyone from doing anything. Are you suggesting that my arguing against the idea somehow prevents them from doing it?

 

[lolguest]

I'm not gatekeeping. Did you not read this line from my previous post?



SukhiX wants someone to collaborate on a remake of this game, but that's just not going to work out. After watching her post about it several times over the past two weeks, I decided to break the bad news to her, so that she can move on to more fruitful pursuits.

She's free to try to prove me wrong. I'm not going to do a single thing to hinder her efforts. But I thought someone should be honest with her about her chances of success.



Yes, DRG gave people permission to carry on his previous game, Valentina's Story. And how did that work out? The attempted remake was abandoned more quickly than the original game. And that's what always happens when someone other than the original creator tries to carry on with an abandoned game.

But the fact that DRG gave people permission to carry on with VS does not automatically mean that he'd be okay with them doing the same with VWA. Maybe he would, and maybe he wouldn't. We can't ask him.

Also, his restriction that anyone carrying on with his previous game couldn't charge money or ask for monetary support was a project killer. It costs money to make a game. And it costs a hell of a lot of time and effort and trouble. And if you can't get any money for your efforts, then you're going to burn out all the sooner.



I think you and I have had this conversation before, but I'll repeat what I've said in the past. Not everyone here on F95 Zone is a pirate. Not all of us are okay with stealing from creators. Some of us use this site as a way of finding new games, interacting with people who share our interests, and maybe interacting with the game developers.

Yes, I understand that this is also a pirate forum. I don't have to approve of that in order to find the forum useful.



This is the "no true Scotsman" argument, which is a common logical fallacy. You can say that "people who care about the game will only act this way", but I can turn it around and say the same thing, only changing the requirements. I can argue that anyone who truly cared about the game wouldn't want to see it bastardized and cheapened. Neither argument proves that the other person doesn't care. Neither one of us gets to decide who does or doesn't care, or what a person would or would not do if they cared.

As for your accusation that those of us who object to a remake are trying to possess the game, or that we act like we own it, how exactly would someone other than the creator own this game? Do I, as one of the players, have some sort of legal recourse to prevent remakes? Do I have the ability to prevent people from downloading the game? Do I have any ability at all to stop someone from extracting and decompiling the game files?

Tell me exactly how I've acted like I own or possess the game. Explain your absurd accusation.



Are you suggesting that I don't want people copying the mechanics from this game? When did I say that?



Explain to me exactly how I'm stopping anyone from doing anything. Are you suggesting that my arguing against the idea somehow prevents them from doing it?

Good, we are on the same then

 

[rontantes]

I think continuations can and have been successful. It is fair to say that they are much much harder, and we can always gently nudge potential really good devs into more promising new game roles. But, it is a really bad idea to strongly discourage overall with a negative tone and message. We want more devs, and we want to encourage them as much as possible. We don't want to scare off potential wide eyed new people from doing anything.

Someone failing to do a remake could turn around and do a better project later. But, someone who is discouraged, will have no chance to do anything useful.

The successful continuation examples I have in mind are:
WTM Academy
Lab Rats 2 Community Edition
Witch Trainer Silver Edition

These obviously had access to the original codebase, so are on easy mode compared to a possible Astrid remake. But they are still positive stories.

EraHunter's Naked Adventure is pretty much a remake.

 

[TheLecher]

It is fair to say that they are much much harder, and we can always gently nudge potential really good devs into more promising new game roles. But, it is a really bad idea to strongly discourage overall with a negative tone and message.

No one discouraged anyone with an overall negative tone or message.

We want more devs, and we want to encourage them as much as possible. We don't want to scare off potential wide eyed new people from doing anything.

It's important for people to know what to expect. People who have realistic expectations are forearmed for difficulties and are more likely to succeed. Not telling people the truth about what they're going to face is not kind or helpful, it is in fact the opposite. It is harmful and hinders their success.

Someone failing to do a remake could turn around and do a better project later. But, someone who is discouraged, will have no chance to do anything useful.

Someone who is so easily discouraged that they can't face hearing the facts about the obstacles they'll have to overcome is someone who wasn't going to succeed in any case. Success requires determination and persistence. Anyone who isn't capable of facing difficulty and pressing on is someone who isn't capable of achieving worthwhile success.

Always be honest with people, so that they can prepare themselves for what they need to do in order to succeed. That's how you help people to achieve more.

The successful continuation examples I have in mind are:
WTM Academy
Lab Rats 2 Community Edition
Witch Trainer Silver Edition

I'm not familiar with WTM Academy or Lab Rats 2, but I can tell you that Witch Trainer: Silver is not an example of an abandoned game which was continued by someone else. Akabur completed the original Witch Trainer. It is not an abandoned game. He just didn't give it a very good finish. He left people feeling like the end was rushed and a lot of content was left out. So people created the Silver edition, which is just Akabur's game with additional content added in from time to time. It's really not the same things as attempting to complete a game which has been abandoned partway through development.

 

[battonray]

I thought about *trying* to remake this game/add on/continue but the issue is two fold as Lecher has put.

One is money. DRG said as long as you don't take money and look as much as I would love to do it in my spare time let's all be real here, if someone did it for free it would just be a zombie for 7 years before maybe being completed. And that's if it doesn't get abandoned.

And Lecher you might've pointed this out idk, but the last point I know you did but, like fan backlash.

If it isn't 100000000% the way the fans want, then you lose them, you lose the base. It's basically hamstringing yourself and NO ONE wants to be hamstrung.

So it's better to make an "inspired" game or something that takes what people loved and maybe your own twist.

I am working on something currently that I want to share that's an inspiration from this game but superhero related.

Does that mean it's a continuation? No. But it's something I hope people who liked this game will like.

It also means with money I can devote time and also MAKE it my own without having to be fully beholden to old threads or plots.

 

[peepee169]

wow TheLecher i didn't know you cared about other people's time and effort so much so that you even start advising them not to do anything with this game even before they start trying. instead of giving constructive criticism when they start making and seeing how the game came out you decide that it won't be good and tell them to not stand in the start line. wow you are doing god's work bro. keep it up!

 

[TheLecher]

wow you are doing god's work bro. keep it up!

I will.

 

[NachoCheese]

I'm guessing a solid 95% of content featured on F95 are games inspired by someone else's game, which is fine. Each of them has enough of a hint of originality to make it work. Don't try to ride someone else's coattales to success; do it on your own with inspiration. Though given that we're talking about erotic story telling, coattails works as well.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

FanArt:

Milady! You're guilty of treason for not registering your copyright properly.
Non-existent rights were strongly defended on the pirate forum.
You will spend the rest of your life in Azkaban.


View attachment 3223019

I'm out of reactions today, so...

​

 

[boulimanus]

FanArt:

Milady! You're guilty of treason for not registering your copyright properly.
Non-existent rights were strongly defended on the pirate forum.
You will spend the rest of your life in Azkaban.


View attachment 3223019

Always nice to see Astrid but gotta say, Milady is super hot.

 

[Joe Steel]

FanArt:

Milady! You're guilty of treason for not registering your copyright properly.
Non-existent rights were strongly defended on the pirate forum.
You will spend the rest of your life in Azkaban.


View attachment 3223019

Which of these warriors has the nickname "Slowpoke?"