Unity Abandoned Viva Project [v0.1.0] [sgthale]

4.30 star(s) 4 Votes

TragicSolitude

Active Member
Jan 3, 2019
556
999
I hadn't played in a good while, so thought I'd check out the last update (9.3) to see how the game had advanced.

To say it feels like the game regressed is...Putting it lightly. All movement and interaction feels significantly worse than in older versions, characters moving around looks awful and is buggy as shit, and, I don't know if I'm just looking in the wrong place, but the old house and all that seems to just be gone entirely. Now there's a half-baked Onsen with a kitchen and barely any other interactable. Plus, the classic character (and subsequently the other method of character creation) seems to be gone or buried somewhere. Not to mention the characters in its place are just Genshin characters for...Some reason, and they look like they've been ripped by three or four different people and have no consistent shading method.

Interacting with the characters in almost any way is straight up busted, and trying to hold their hand or pick them up oftentimes just results in Gmod style ragdoll physics flailing about. My VR controllers (Index) don't line up with the hands in the slightest, and the physical player body seems to get stuck on geometry constantly.

Simply put, this is awful. I was thinking that "Huh, maybe the previous commenter complaining about the state the dev left the game in was just being overentitled and demanding things be in the game that they personally wanted" but. Yeahno, as someone who played the game at multiple stages earlier in development and enjoyed it pretty thoroughly then (in and out of VR), this is atrocious. When did the dev decide to do a full redux of the game, in which they did a fuckton of meth, blacked out, and woke up with a whole new line of code and animations and go "Hm yes, this all looks good."?

I'm dearly hoping that people working on OpenViva can make this a functional game in the future. Needless to say, I won't be supporting whatever horror game the dev dropped this for. If they managed to do such a complete 180 on game development and somehow demolish what they'd had built up previously, I don't want to see what they do with a new game from the ground up.

There are several takeaways here:
1) Shinobu was nixed for legal issues. Because, seriously, it's Japan and Japanese copyright. If you think that isn't a valid reason after it gained popularity, I should only need to mention Nintendo and Toei to reinforce that. (Now you can argue that the other characters in it don't make sense, and I don't disagree. But there has to be something somewhere.)

2) The older character creation was removed to support more involved character import and to support potential modding. Makes it more difficult for the layman, but you can only do so much with the card feature.

3) I'll touch on the bugs and physics issues here. Those are odd, yes. But I can also see why those are happening. Earlier Viva, 0.75, did not have dynamic physics. So what you're talking about isn't inherently a lack of bugs or issues in earlier versions, it's a lack of complexity. And while you'd ask yourself, "Well why sacrifice stability to do more?" Because if you didn't, the game would then become stale and we'd end up at a different road-ending but still have the same type of complaints. Except now the game would be close-sourced, with less ability to add things easily. It doesn't hand-wave the weirdness present as is, but it is something to keep in perspective. I certainly agree that it lacks polish, and leaving it as is seems odd but there's no real winning here I don't think.

The original reason I took such umbrage with the previous person is because of how they approached the situation. They did not address anything you stated, or brought up any real issues or concerns as you stated they did. Their comments boiled down to, "This is scam." Which is nothing other than ridiculous and inflammatory. The game is free, and always has been. I can understand if you take issues with sudden dev shifts wherein the game ISN'T free, and you're paying for it. (A la Fallen Doll: Lovecraft. That whole debacle is somethin' else.) But it isn't, and so a more granular approach needs to be taken in my eyes. Especially since they called it a scam, but never even supported them anyway.
I do not deny the physics oddities or the need to have polish in some aspects, and in fact I would have readily just left things alone if that was the opener. But I still stand by the fact that spending 5 years alone on a project is a very difficult task that eventually breeds more issues for the project than it doesn't. Leaving it where it is now, while rough and unpolished, is better than any other option.
 
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AlexWingace

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Jun 30, 2017
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There are several takeaways here:
1) Shinobu was nixed for legal issues. Because, seriously, it's Japan and Japanese copyright. If you think that isn't a valid reason after it gained popularity, I should only need to mention Nintendo and Toei to reinforce that. (Now you can argue that the other characters in it don't make sense, and I don't disagree. But there has to be something somewhere.)

2) The older character creation was removed to support more involved character import and to support potential modding. Makes it more difficult for the layman, but you can only do so much with the card feature.

3) I'll touch on the bugs and physics issues here. Those are odd, yes. But I can also see why those are happening. Earlier Viva, 0.75, did not have dynamic physics. So what you're talking about isn't inherently a lack of bugs or issues in earlier versions, it's a lack of complexity. And while you'd ask yourself, "Well why sacrifice stability to do more?" Because if you didn't, the game would then become stale and we'd end up at a different road-ending but still have the same type of complaints. Except now the game would be close-sourced, with less ability to add things easily. It doesn't hand-wave the weirdness present as is, but it is something to keep in perspective. I certainly agree that it lacks polish, and leaving it as is seems odd but there's no real winning here I don't think.

The original reason I took such umbrage with the previous person is because of how they approached the situation. They did not address anything you stated, or brought up any real issues or concerns as you stated they did. Their comments boiled down to, "This is scam." Which is nothing other than ridiculous and inflammatory. The game is free, and always has been. I can understand if you take issues with sudden dev shifts wherein the game ISN'T free, and you're paying for it. (A la Fallen Doll: Lovecraft. That whole debacle is somethin' else.) But it isn't, and so a more granular approach needs to be taken in my eyes. Especially since they called it a scam, but never even supported them anyway.
I do not deny the physics oddities or the need to have polish in some aspects, and in fact I would have readily just left things alone if that was the opener. But I still stand by the fact that spending 5 years alone on a project is a very difficult task that eventually breeds more issues for the project than it doesn't. Leaving it where it is now, while rough and unpolished, is better than any other option.
The problem with you saying "Shinobu was removed for copyright reasons" is immediately made invalid by the fact that the characters that replaced her by default are all copywritten characters. And again, the new character framework is straight up inferior. The characters are worse to interact with in any way, are way less expressive and therefore look worse.

He didn't need to keep Shinobu specifically, but if he'd changed it to a generic character as a base (or even an OC) using the same expressionset and/or face, body/skeleton, and animations that were present in the old ones, that would have been a hundred times better than the garbage we did get.

I would 100% have taken stability and polish over the game being open source, since there's absolutely no guarantee people will do anything meaningful with the game from this point on. The dynamic physics don't really add anything to the game, either. It's just kinda added without a second thought. It would have been better to make an entirely separate game for whatever the hell he was trying to do with this build.

Not gonna lie, the "improved" character import feature is...Not a better option. The Card system was just fine. There were characters that you could import alongside fully customizable outfits that were simple to utilize. If you wanted more in terms of customization (IE, height, proportions, etc), it would have been better to add in-game options to save to certain characters. A more complex and less intuitive system for importation =/= a better system.

Lastly, on the topic of "scams"...I can't speak personally, since I never supported the game financially, but I can very much understand why a lot of backers on Patreon feel scammed and/or betrayed. The grand majority likely joined it for the specific game that was being developed, and everything the game had being scrapped in favor of the shit they left us with would be infuriating if i dumped any amount of money into helping the development of the old game.
 
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TragicSolitude

Active Member
Jan 3, 2019
556
999
The problem with you saying "Shinobu was removed for copyright reasons" is immediately made invalid by the fact that the characters that replaced her by default are all copywritten characters. And again, the new character framework is straight up inferior. The characters are worse to interact with in any way, are way less expressive and therefore look worse.

He didn't need to keep Shinobu specifically, but if he'd changed it to a generic character as a base (or even an OC) using the same expressionset and/or face, body/skeleton, and animations that were present in the old ones, that would have been a hundred times better than the garbage we did get.

I would 100% have taken stability and polish over the game being open source, since there's absolutely no guarantee people will do anything meaningful with the game from this point on. The dynamic physics don't really add anything to the game, either. It's just kinda added without a second thought. It would have been better to make an entirely separate game for whatever the hell he was trying to do with this build.

Not gonna lie, the "improved" character import feature is...Not a better option. The Card system was just fine. There were characters that you could import alongside fully customizable outfits that were simple to utilize. If you wanted more in terms of customization (IE, height, proportions, etc), it would have been better to add in-game options to save to certain characters. A more complex and less intuitive system for importation =/= a better system.

Lastly, on the topic of "scams"...I can't speak personally, since I never supported the game financially, but I can very much understand why a lot of backers on Patreon feel scammed and/or betrayed. The grand majority likely joined it for the specific game that was being developed, and everything the game had being scrapped in favor of the shit they left us with would be infuriating if i dumped any amount of money into helping the development of the old game.
tl;dr: Old man says complexity is better than simplicity, the Patreon did not offer exorbitant tiers or rewards that suggested it was anything other than tip jar, and says game isn't as bad as Fallout 76. Thanks for coming to my TEDxTalk.

Hey man, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling you what was stated through his blog. Why do you think it's now called Viva and not Shinobu Project?
Also, I beg to differ that him making an OC would have been better. It would have been worse by far, and unless you know nothing about how model/rigging work, you'd know. He's a Unity developer, not a model designer. So unless you want "MY FIRST OC! (DON'T STEAL)" as the base model, some capitulations have to be made.

Also, about what you were saying about being able to import custom characters, that is both correct and incorrect. You could "import" a character's LOOKS (Hair/clothes/face?), but not anything else. You are hard bound by the model in the game, unless you went through the process to unpack the game files, and replace the model itself. You can not just, "add options in game" because that isn't how working with models in Unity goes. Unless the base model is implicitly designed with shape keys to increase certain proportions. But even then you'd still have the same character body type.
Further, the current system is not implicitly less intuitive. The process for bringing in characters is about as simple as uploading a model for VRC. Which is, now a days, a heavily streamlined process that is only one Youtube video away. It is more involved, but not the most esoteric thing to do. Blender has the CATS plugin, which makes the hard model work just some simple button clicks. I don't disagree that on the surface it seems strange and unknowable, but it is much simpler than it looks.
And FURTHER, anyone else can do that work and redistribute the needed packages just as simply for you to just unpack and load in. But the only reason we don't have that yet is because it's too new. The card system was, "better" because it had been around for longer and was simpler, but had less to do.
The rebuttal you came back with essentially comes down to minimalism vs customization. Which while not unfair, would guarantee the game come to stagnation exceptionally fast, and drive no major interest after a point.

Lastly, on the topic of the Patreon, I have to doubt your points. The game is free. If people donated to his Patreon thinking otherwise, then to be perfectly frank, they probably aren't paying as much attention as they should be.
Mostly because all his tiers of his Patreon only offer dev posts and earlier access to beta releases. It is very much more a tip-jar than anything else. And the only levels he has offered has only ever been, $1/$2/$5 a month, which $5 is a bit, yes. But people spend more on coffee a WEEK than they would that Patreon. (Yes I understand you can offer more, but the math on his current still active patrons * max donation level would be more than his current total income for that. So let's assume it's a moot point.) If you donate money to someone and expect it to do something good, you've already lost. Be stingy with your donations! I whole heartedly support that, I do not begrudge people being careful with who they donate to! But it is still important to go into doing that with the expectation that it may wind up getting you nothing! There are a shit ton of artists I support on Fantia that just post almost nothing. (And one that posts so much I don't know how to react) But I'm doing it because I enjoy their art and when they come back from several months of nothing at least I'll get some high quality art. (And because when you get to my level, certain tastes are hard to find, but shhhh) Better them than me buying something else stupid.

At the end of it all, this is mostly an issue of polish. The game is not an exceptionally buggy or broken mess. It is not Cyberpunk or (God save us) Fallout 76. The physics oddities can be resolved more than likely fairly simple with tweaks and ragdoll settings. It is not some underlying engine issue, but merely a matter of some settings being not nearly fine tuned enough. It is rough as is, but has the underlying framework to be better. So calling it a scam or getting super worked up seems overkill. I understand being disappointed or sad. I am too, to hear this. But the Otherside is important to keep in mind. (Cause it's a really great song, I mean, have you LISTENED to Californication?)
I'd love to tackle more of your points with more granularity, but this is getting too long as is, and at some point we all stop reading. (And I'm known to never stop my stupid fucking side-bar notes.)
 
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arcticmine

Newbie
Jun 9, 2017
58
276
Is there any other way to download new updates made to this "OpenViva" version other than joining their discord server?
 

arcticmine

Newbie
Jun 9, 2017
58
276
Is there any other way to download new updates made to this "OpenViva" version other than joining their discord server?
Welp, I found it myself through searching github and yeah they do have it there with downloads
They also seem to have some WIP website with link to latest version as well
 
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Fappingfox

Member
Sep 30, 2018
465
563
All character skins are short and flat and definitely underaged
And? No sexual content in game, iirc there were mods for lewd, but not in the vanilla game. Plus, if this did violate rules, it never would have been approved to be posted.
 

SirenBrink

Newbie
Feb 13, 2020
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I made an objectively true statement intended to be read by newcomers to the thread (like myself). Two people came in to defend the game and both of you brought up the topic of sexual content.

Seeing provocation where there is none is a sign of a guilty conscience.
 

Fappingfox

Member
Sep 30, 2018
465
563
I made an objectively true statement intended to be read by newcomers to the thread (like myself). Two people came in to defend the game and both of you brought up the topic of sexual content.

Seeing provocation where there is none is a sign of a guilty conscience.
You made the comment, on a site, with pirated porn games, and you're shocked at the way people read it?
 

Namba

Member
Dec 22, 2019
115
263
The latest update allows for mods, animations and new character model... so... maybe?
 
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SusaSwarm

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Nov 3, 2019
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Please Note: Saves from v0.2.0 will not work due to the way the save system works.
Make sure to get some cards and clothing from our website:
Looks like project is totally alive and you can check what kind of characters are available

upd. Looks like last few months game has been ported to UE5
 
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Lewd_Shill

Newbie
May 6, 2020
29
20
Looks like project is totally alive and you can check what kind of characters are available

upd. Looks like last few months game has been ported to UE5
Being ported to*
Its nowhere near done, let alone in a playable state.
 

Owen95

New Member
Mar 7, 2022
13
2
Gofile link doesnt work and pixel drain link had a corrupted game version, except it is normal that u get spawned on a big pillar in the ocean after booting the game, without anything to do except closing th game again.
 

DS2000

New Member
May 5, 2018
10
5
So it not so dead i see a post and a new Ai that you can Chat with now
 
4.30 star(s) 4 Votes