slick97

Active Member
Dec 2, 2021
586
1,439
You can browse their Patreon page and see at least 5 spoilery pics or WIP videos posted between October 2022 and March 2023, and at least 3 more in the upcoming months until the baby's first birthday. That's actual work done for patrons to see, not just random numbers on a chart or a fancy weekly message. For comparison's sake, they posted around a dozen of spoilery artworks in the whole v0.6 development period that took them 10 months or so. So yeah, they kept working, just slower, as they said they'd do.

(Now you'll feel tempted to say they only did those pics and nothing else, but remember you were just claiming they did nothing at all.)
I have a sneaking suspicion you don't have much experience with project management overall. Either way, this isn't typical behavior of a successful business, nor does it bode well for the longevity of their brand.

Let me put it this way: what these two are doing is resource loading. They're finding enough busy work to justify continuing to charge their customers - the Patrons who pay a monthly fee to access specific work product - and not face issues with Patreon (and legal battles in some countries) down the road. The primary issue is that they're terrible at doing resource loading correctly, and any legitimate business would avoid signing contracts with someone who routinely fails to furnish actual work product.

To put it bluntly... More than two years for a single minor update - regardless of personal circumstance - is unheard of in terms of a 2D AVN. It's especially egregious when compared to other developers who not only produce regular updates, but have also managed to figure out proper workflow and scheduling to ensure they hit their deadlines. Your continued defense of these two isn't going to change their behavior for the better, but instead solidify their belief that enough people will keep supporting them despite a dramatic decrease in work.
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,061
13,258
I have a sneaking suspicion you don't have much experience with project management overall. Either way, this isn't typical behavior of a successful business, nor does it bode well for the longevity of their brand.

Let me put it this way: what these two are doing is resource loading. They're finding enough busy work to justify continuing to charge their customers - the Patrons who pay a monthly fee to access specific work product - and not face issues with Patreon (and legal battles in some countries) down the road. The primary issue is that they're terrible at doing resource loading correctly, and any legitimate business would avoid signing contracts with someone who routinely fails to furnish actual work product.

To put it bluntly... More than two years for a single minor update - regardless of personal circumstance - is unheard of in terms of a 2D AVN. It's especially egregious when compared to other developers who not only produce regular updates, but have also managed to figure out proper workflow and scheduling to ensure they hit their deadlines. Your continued defense of these two isn't going to change their behavior for the better, but instead solidify their belief that enough people will keep supporting them despite a dramatic decrease in work.
I've never said they are the best at managing themselves, but that their reasons have always matched their output before this update -and that this past record is consistent with the progress they claim to be doing, all 'excuses' considered. Once this update is released, we all will be able to evaluate this period much more fairly -even if biased, as I'm sure most of the regular complainers have already decided this update just doesn't worth the wait anymore even if devs eventually produce the best lewd game ever. I've also stated that their credibility will now be on the line and their credit will be pretty much exhausted if 0.8 turns out to be another long development period, as there are no foreseeable conditions that would explain more delays (Holly's quest is already started and announcing more external issues would only be detrimental to their credibility to the point of pushing away even their more devoted fans like me). And I've also said that is just human to slow things down a bit if you have a somewhat stable income sources with no other external pressure than periodic whinning from non-patreons: you are working on your personal project, enough people are paying you for it, and they are allowing you to create that project the way you want in terms of quality (you are not pressured by deadlines so you don't need to cut corners and can work on it until you are fully satisfied with the results). As long as you are transparent about that pace so people not agreeing with it can take their money and leave at any moment they wish, I don't see any problem with this. And, again, these devs are nothing but transparent - if someone just don't want to believe what they say it's not on devs.

Now, for convincing people with my posts, I can assure you that devs don't need me to do that, and I highly doubt they are even aware of my behavior here, as we never talk about that and they just don't visit the thread anymore. Actual patrons get their official info elsewhere and can communicate directly with devs through those official channels as well, so what I'm doing here is irrelevant for the game's current funding. Heck, I've even said to potential patrons out there that it wouldn't be smart to subscribe at this point, and always advise to stop supporting whoever dev as soon as you see something you don't like or agree with -you may not change that 'something' but at least they won't be doing it with your money. So I'm just offering my views and some official info here and there so that people can make their own judgement about these devs' work and honesty, because I actually believe them due to all their past work and behavior (and this is not a blind support, it's always subject to change as stated above).

If someone already thinks that these devs are scammers then it's obvious I won't change their opinion anyway but this won't stop me from insisting on what I find fair. What I wonder myself is why someone will prefer to align with some baseless assumptions form people with no insight over this project, and just disregard publicly available facts just because I'm the one stating them over and over again. For instance, here you replied to my comment debunking yet another baseless claim ('devs didn't work at all during the first six months'). You choose to basically 'advise me' against posting that kind of info (because it can encourage devs to keep doing their bad deeds) instead of telling the other guy to stop posting clearly false claims. But without that other guy's message and many others like that, mine wouldn't even exist.
 

fusibile87

Newbie
Jun 28, 2020
74
468
You can browse their Patreon page and see at least 5 spoilery pics or WIP videos posted between October 2022 and March 2023, and at least 3 more in the upcoming months until the baby's first birthday. That's actual work done for patrons to see, not just random numbers on a chart or a fancy weekly message. For comparison's sake, they posted around a dozen of spoilery artworks in the whole v0.6 development period that took them 10 months or so. So yeah, they kept working, just slower, as they said they'd do.

(Now you'll feel tempted to say they only did those pics and nothing else, but remember you were just claiming they did nothing at all.)
Ah sorry. They have done 5 pics in 18 months. Totally different then, so they are absolutely not doing the update now and that's not the reason why the polishing phase is taking so long. Wink wink ;)
 

Cro

Member
May 10, 2017
479
527
What kind of game are we talking about? It's just that the number of good games can be counted on the fingers of one hand, everything else is crap. WAL is one of the best, it has some value. Therefore, it is strange to compare the development time between them, I'd rather wait and get good content than play some shit on which I feel sorry to spend even a minute of my, to be honest, cheap time.
I can give you an example: Nenad Asanovic. Did Adventures of Willy D and now does EON. Single dev, does music, graphics, coding in Visionaire Studio which I assume it's a bit more complex than ren'py. Actually EON is one of the biggest games ever made in that engine. New updates come regulary, for many many years now. He has 2 games with TONS of content. Again, GAMES, like WaL, not a crappy VN. (I know drawing is one thing and rendering is another, but WaL never had issues because of the art speed, but coding speed). Comparing these 2 'teams' is a joke.

And the sad part is that the WaL team makes way more money then he does. Not to mention his involvment in his Discord, one of the nicest persons I ever met online. I think he's the most under appreciated dev here. It makes me sick to see how much games like WaL and SS are making.
 
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moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,061
13,258
Ah sorry. They have done 5 pics in 18 months. Totally different then, so they are absolutely not doing the update now and that's not the reason why the polishing phase is taking so long. Wink wink ;)
If you don't want to accept they are doing exactly the same they did for the previous 6 updates, only slower due to the alleged reasons, that's entirely on you. You'll never lose anyway, that I can concede.
 

Cro

Member
May 10, 2017
479
527
I'm sure it must be a great example, on your head at least, and it's probably a great game too but to me comparing 2D with 3D it's the same than comparing water to wine.
Absolutely. But you're just showing ignorance, the games I mentioned ARE 2D, not 3D. You really should check them out, the see how they are "on your head" and see how much work is done there at what rate.
 
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Kisama33

Member
May 13, 2018
444
545
Absolutely. But you're just showing ignorance, the games I mentioned ARE 2D, not 3D. You really should check them out, the see how they are "on your head" and see how much work is done there at what rate.
Well I like to believe that when I see a game tagged with "3Dcg" that's exactly what I will find, and when I see one that's not tagged with "2D" then that's absolutely what I will not find so if that is really the case I suggest to contact the member responsible for both games threads and ask for a correction.
 
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shazba jnr

Member
Feb 3, 2024
202
1,522
I was wondering what happened with the update

So progress is like 0.2% /day?
That comes out to 130 days or over 4 months for just the debugging. For a VN renpy game.

Well, it was good while it lasted.
DEBUG WENT UP BY 0.1% MY FUCKING SIDES BRO, He's trolling at this point. He knows people are pissed but they've huffed copium for 2 years supporting this muppet and they'll just keep giving him money at least to finish this update.


As much as I enjoy the artwork, dude deserves to have all his kekreon subs leave after this update. You can only get a free ride on other peoples dime for so long.
Ong bro I mean bigger games than this have updated in the span of lesser time. One big one i can think of is BaDIK. I know its a different scale in terms of income, but still, DPC is a single guy working on it (he shouldnt be but oh well) yet hes faster than these donkeys, with a much bigger product to finish.

He's lowkey stealing their money at this point ngl. At least i didnt pay a dime to that twat
I wonder how long I'd stay employed if I kept shuffling decimal points on my daily progress at my job. :unsure:

Oh yeah, deadlines... :rolleyes:

Otherwise I'd totally be doing this! :sneaky:
 
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