Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.03] [MagicNuts]

[TheDevian]

Uh huh, must work wonders when you see them parade around like Christmas came early.

I have seen them delete whole pages of shit, yeah.

 

[moskyx]

Seems it's that time of the year again

 

[TheDevian]

My ignore list is really growing this month.

 

[MasksDude]

I hope this game gets help, game is amazing fr

 

[Omnikuken]

I hope this game gets help, game is amazing fr

What help and why would it need any ?

 

[MasksDude]

What help and why would it need any ?

Game only has 2 developers hence the long updates and the game is so massive has lots of potential that they've established and sucks if it would go to waste. The story telling and the lore is really good and to top it off it's a 18+ game like fr

 

[Omnikuken]

Game only has 2 developers hence the long updates and the game is so massive has lots of potential that they've established and sucks if it would go to waste. The story telling and the lore is really good and to top it off it's a 18+ game like fr

It's not going anywhere, the devs will stay only the 2 of them and people wanted longer updates. So nothing needs help in there

 

[moskyx]

lol, that explains it. A butthurt guy who can't understand why a happily married couple who are making 9k monthly while comfortably working on their dream project don't need the help of a nobody with a 'vision'.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

lol, that explains it. A butthurt guy who can't understand why a happily married couple who are making 9k monthly while comfortably working on their dream project don't need the help of a nobody with a 'vision'.

Yeah, making $90.000 without providing any new update over 10 months seems totally like they don't need help.

At this wage you can work full time, which means 170+ hours a month = 1700 hours of pure development in these 10 months, multiplied by two devs, that's 3400 hours.

When people say they want longer updates, it doesn't mean they want less frequent updates. It means they want to see more content for the $90.000 they pay within 10 months.

We're even only talking about a simple 2d cartoon game here, with static maps, plain text and some drawings that got low-framerate animations. Nothing that compares to actual game development where devs have to face really technical complicated challenges.

 

[moskyx]

Yeah, making $90.000 without providing any new update over 10 months seems totally like they don't need help.

At this wage you can work full time, which means 170+ hours a month = 1700 hours of pure development in these 10 months, multiplied by two devs, that's 3400 hours.

When people say they want longer updates, it doesn't mean they want less frequent updates. It means they want to see more content for the $90.000 they pay within 10 months.

We're even only talking about a simple 2d cartoon game here, with static maps, plain text and some drawings that got low-framerate animations. Nothing that compares to actual game development where devs have to face really technical complicated challenges.

Devs are earning decent money, yes. The game is not rocket science, ok (although I'd argue that it's way more complex than it may seem, and you only have to take a look under the hood to see the code needed to make everything work smoothly, from preventing potentially colliding events from doing so, to bringing life to those minor animations that are constantly running at the background on every single scene). But ok. So what? They've been working at this rate for 3 years now, providing daily updates in a format that has been adopted by many other devs since then due to its transparency and accountability, and they've been in continuous contact with their patrons, who are the ones actually funding the game and seem happy enough with it to keep giving their money away for a FREE FOR ALL game (they were the ones who chose to let the devs work in full quests instead of releasing partial and more frequent updates, by the way, so your last point is false: paying people do want less frequent updates, given its quality).

Devs are honest and transparent, they keep refunding pledges to those who subscribe on the last days of the month (and basically to everyone who demands it), they work together, they had a baby and they still kept developing the game when an ordinary worker would have taken a leave from their job. Many people like what they are doing and this has allowed them to make a living from this project, and they are adult, responsible people committed to it, as they have shown in those 3 years. There's no actual incentive for them to change the way they've been doing things, and I don't mean it in a wrong way, quite the opposite: I find it hard to come up with a more effective way given their personal circumstances. In fact, it seems to me that they have found the perfect balance. You don't have to like it but you won't change it either with your complaining. You can express your disagreement, you can argue they should be more productive according to your own, uninformed opinion, and you're free to not support them if you feel they don't reach the standards you arbitrarily set (as we all do). But nothing will change, and you'll get the chance to play the game for free anyway whenever it's ready.

Also, what help do you think they need? For what? No matter how much you pay her, the only artist won't grow an extra pair of hands and another functional brain to speed up her work. If you actually want to help, maybe try to copy her skills and offer yourself to help her out. Because what really sets this game apart is a bottleneck that can't be bypassed nor easily solved without the game's quality getting a noticeable, severe blow.

 

[LB1990]

Any news for v0.7 ? Progress tracker isn't updated

 

[Fuchsschweif]

(although I'd argue that it's way more complex than it may seem, and you only have to take a look under the hood to see the code needed to make everything work smoothly, from preventing potentially colliding events from doing so

It really isn't, coordinating simple requests like "did player do X/Y?" in order to unlock event Z is as basic as it gets, nothing beyond setting up variables, counters and if/else questions.

providing daily updates in a format that has been adopted by many other devs since then due to its transparency and accountability, and they've been in continuous contact with their patrons

Who wouldn't do that for 9k a month? It's really not that demanding to write a little blog post every morning, if it keeps the cashflow up.

your last point is false: paying people do want less frequent updates, given its quality).

This proves my point: They want quality updates, not less frequent updates. More money should usually lead to higher quality updates in a shorter time frame, which leads us to this point:

they work together, they had a baby and they still kept developing the game when an ordinary worker would have taken a leave from their job.

You can't compare them with an ordinary worker. They're business owners. A business owner who makes 9k a month with his business wouldn't take a leave from their job totally, they would hire someone else to do it meanwhile.

So if you get $90.000 from your fans over 10 months and you know that you can't really work because you've got to take care of your baby, you'd simply hire someone for from that 90k.

Also, what help do you think they need? For what? No matter how much you pay her, the only artist won't grow an extra pair of hands and another functional brain to speed up her work.

Hire a programmer who takes care of coding the upcoming events and quests, so the husband can take care of the baby and the mother who seems to be the artist can put more time into making the art.

And again, we're still talking about a text based visual novel with some low-framerate animations. Even if she would manage to make only one animation every two days, that would equal 150 new animations after 10 months.

If they hire an animator, that animator could do the animations once she's done with the basic skeleton pictures (so that the animator can easily use her style and keep it in check), while she can proceed drawing still images for story related content.

There are plenty of ways to juggle things. 9k a month does open up tons of opportunities. As ordinary worker you would also need to balance your work/life balance and find time with your child next to your work, but with a way lower wage and less freedom to organize yourself more efficient.

Generally, nobody is ever "forced" to pay, even if a game is behind a paywall on Patreon. People always pledge because they belive a project is worth it. But that doesn't grant immunity for criticism or suggestions on how to speed up or improve things.

Because in the end it's still that person who set up a Patreon and said "Hey, please fund our project, so we can make it". Without the funds it would probably not exist anymore at all.

And if they'd invest the money in a clever way to speed up things as suggested above, that would lead to more frequent high quality updates. And that then would lead to more people funding the project. So it's a win-win situation.

Not everyone is a good business person or knows how to invest their money optimally though. Not everyone is good at managing and planning things.
Maybe they just enjoy a lot of free time and the money and just take their freedom to work slowly without bothering at all about these things.

But our topic was if they could use some help, and the answer is clearly: yes, they could.

 

[TheDevian]

Any news for v0.7 ? Progress tracker isn't updated

Wait, you mean they took a day off!?!?!?! How DARE THEY!
Dude! It just updated FRIDAY! They give WEEKLY updates, not daily.

lol, that explains it. A butthurt guy who can't understand why a happily married couple who are making 9k monthly while comfortably working on their dream project don't need the help of a nobody with a 'vision'.

Because as we all know, strangers on the internet are super reliable...

 

[Not so well]

Wait, you mean they took a day off!?!?!?! How DARE THEY!
Dude! It just updated FRIDAY! They give WEEKLY updates, not daily.

J4F, wanna bet when will the 0.7 update release?
Me first: about next year's March

 

[moskyx]

It really isn't, coordinating simple requests like "did player do X/Y?" in order to unlock event Z is as basic as it gets, nothing beyond setting up variables, counters and if/else questions.




Who wouldn't do that for 9k a month? It's really not that demanding to write a little blog post every morning, if it keeps the cashflow up.



This proves my point: They want quality updates, not less frequent updates. More money should usually lead to higher quality updates in a shorter time frame, which leads us to this point:



You can't compare them with an ordinary worker. They're business owners. A business owner who makes 9k a month with his business wouldn't take a leave from their job totally, they would hire someone else to do it meanwhile.

So if you get $90.000 from your fans over 10 months and you know that you can't really work because you've got to take care of your baby, if you're responsible, you'd hire someone for that 90k and let them deliver for that amount of money.



Hire a programmer who takes care of coding the upcoming events and quests, so the husband can take care of the baby and the mother who seems to be the artist can put more time into making the art.

There are plenty of ways to make time, hire someone, shift responsibilities and delegate tasks. 9k a month does offer tons of opportunities. As ordinary worker you would also need to balance your work/life balance and find time with your child next to your work, but with a way lower wage and less freedom to organize yourself more efficient.

Generally, nobody is ever "forced" to pay, even if a game is behind a paywall on Patreon. People always pledge because they belive a project is worth it. But that doesn't grant immunity for criticism or suggestions on how to speed up or improve things.

Because in the end it's still that person who set up a Patreon and said "Hey, please fund our project, so we can make it". Without the funds it would probably not exist anymore at all, since they seem even to struggle time-wise with that current huge loads of money.

What's your point, then? That you won't support them because they don't look like highly efficient people and you'd likely act differently if in their shoes? Are you really blaming them for not working at your desired pace and simply choosing to do things the way they see fit instead? Go ahead. There are 2k people who still agree with them, though, enough to keep them going.

 

[Fuchsschweif]

What's your point, then?

I think I made that clear:

But our topic was if they could use some help, and the answer is clearly: yes, they could.

Are you really blaming them for not working at your desired pace

No, I was blaming you and other users for calling other people butthurt because they suggested that the devs could use some help to speed up things, and that they earn enough money with the project to finance that.

 

[Omnikuken]

Pretty sure they were talking about the progress tracker here in the OP.

Tracker in the OP is just an image from before they started working on 0.7 last year. It doesn't mean anything and has never been updated

 

[TheDevian]

No, I was blaming you for calling other people butthurt because they suggest that the devs could use some help to speed up things, and that they earn enough money with the project to finance that.

Help taking care of the newborn, maybe, but if you don't like how they do things, leave.

Pretty sure they were talking about the progress tracker here in the OP.

You mean this one? The one they update ALL THE TIME?

 

[Fuchsschweif]

Help taking care of the newborn, maybe, but if you don't like how they do things, leave.

I already suggested how they could manage that in my previous post. If you don't like my posts, leave.

Hire a programmer who takes care of coding the upcoming events and quests, so the husband can take care of the baby and the mother who seems to be the artist can put more time into making the art.

And again, we're still talking about a text based visual novel with some low-framerate animations. Even if she would manage to make only one animation every two days, that would equal 150 new animations after 10 months.

If they hire an animator, that animator could do the animations once she's done with the basic skeleton pictures (so that the animator can easily use her style and keep it in check), while she can proceed drawing still images for story related content.

There are plenty of ways to juggle things. 9k a month does open up tons of opportunities. As ordinary worker you would also need to balance your work/life balance and find time with your child next to your work, but with a way lower wage and less freedom to organize yourself more efficient.

 

[Omnikuken]

It used to update at least every now and then on earlier updates. It's the first thing I looked at when checking in with this thread. Seeing the 0% everywhere I chose to visit the website to see the real thing. Not everyone will do that.
I'd argue the tracker shouldn't be here if it's never updated, since it's pretty much pointless in that case.

Take that up to the mods then. They won't care nor do anything about it though