Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.05] [MagicNuts]

[LB1990]

Any news for v0.7 ? Progress tracker isn't updated

 

[Deleted member 1666680]

(although I'd argue that it's way more complex than it may seem, and you only have to take a look under the hood to see the code needed to make everything work smoothly, from preventing potentially colliding events from doing so

It really isn't, coordinating simple requests like "did player do X/Y?" in order to unlock event Z is as basic as it gets, nothing beyond setting up variables, counters and if/else questions.

providing daily updates in a format that has been adopted by many other devs since then due to its transparency and accountability, and they've been in continuous contact with their patrons

Who wouldn't do that for 9k a month? It's really not that demanding to write a little blog post every morning, if it keeps the cashflow up.

your last point is false: paying people do want less frequent updates, given its quality).

This proves my point: They want quality updates, not less frequent updates. More money should usually lead to higher quality updates in a shorter time frame, which leads us to this point:

they work together, they had a baby and they still kept developing the game when an ordinary worker would have taken a leave from their job.

You can't compare them with an ordinary worker. They're business owners. A business owner who makes 9k a month with his business wouldn't take a leave from their job totally, they would hire someone else to do it meanwhile.

So if you get $90.000 from your fans over 10 months and you know that you can't really work because you've got to take care of your baby, you'd simply hire someone for from that 90k.

Also, what help do you think they need? For what? No matter how much you pay her, the only artist won't grow an extra pair of hands and another functional brain to speed up her work.

Hire a programmer who takes care of coding the upcoming events and quests, so the husband can take care of the baby and the mother who seems to be the artist can put more time into making the art.

And again, we're still talking about a text based visual novel with some low-framerate animations. Even if she would manage to make only one animation every two days, that would equal 150 new animations after 10 months.

If they hire an animator, that animator could do the animations once she's done with the basic skeleton pictures (so that the animator can easily use her style and keep it in check), while she can proceed drawing still images for story related content.

There are plenty of ways to juggle things. 9k a month does open up tons of opportunities. As ordinary worker you would also need to balance your work/life balance and find time with your child next to your work, but with a way lower wage and less freedom to organize yourself more efficient.

Generally, nobody is ever "forced" to pay, even if a game is behind a paywall on Patreon. People always pledge because they belive a project is worth it. But that doesn't grant immunity for criticism or suggestions on how to speed up or improve things.

Because in the end it's still that person who set up a Patreon and said "Hey, please fund our project, so we can make it". Without the funds it would probably not exist anymore at all.

And if they'd invest the money in a clever way to speed up things as suggested above, that would lead to more frequent high quality updates. And that then would lead to more people funding the project. So it's a win-win situation.

Not everyone is a good business person or knows how to invest their money optimally though. Not everyone is good at managing and planning things.
Maybe they just enjoy a lot of free time and the money and just take their freedom to work slowly without bothering at all about these things.

But our topic was if they could use some help, and the answer is clearly: yes, they could.

 

[TheDevian]

Any news for v0.7 ? Progress tracker isn't updated

Wait, you mean they took a day off!?!?!?! How DARE THEY!
Dude! It just updated FRIDAY! They give WEEKLY updates, not daily.

lol, that explains it. A butthurt guy who can't understand why a happily married couple who are making 9k monthly while comfortably working on their dream project don't need the help of a nobody with a 'vision'.

Because as we all know, strangers on the internet are super reliable...

 

[Not so well]

Wait, you mean they took a day off!?!?!?! How DARE THEY!
Dude! It just updated FRIDAY! They give WEEKLY updates, not daily.

J4F, wanna bet when will the 0.7 update release?
Me first: about next year's March

 

[moskyx]

It really isn't, coordinating simple requests like "did player do X/Y?" in order to unlock event Z is as basic as it gets, nothing beyond setting up variables, counters and if/else questions.




Who wouldn't do that for 9k a month? It's really not that demanding to write a little blog post every morning, if it keeps the cashflow up.



This proves my point: They want quality updates, not less frequent updates. More money should usually lead to higher quality updates in a shorter time frame, which leads us to this point:



You can't compare them with an ordinary worker. They're business owners. A business owner who makes 9k a month with his business wouldn't take a leave from their job totally, they would hire someone else to do it meanwhile.

So if you get $90.000 from your fans over 10 months and you know that you can't really work because you've got to take care of your baby, if you're responsible, you'd hire someone for that 90k and let them deliver for that amount of money.



Hire a programmer who takes care of coding the upcoming events and quests, so the husband can take care of the baby and the mother who seems to be the artist can put more time into making the art.

There are plenty of ways to make time, hire someone, shift responsibilities and delegate tasks. 9k a month does offer tons of opportunities. As ordinary worker you would also need to balance your work/life balance and find time with your child next to your work, but with a way lower wage and less freedom to organize yourself more efficient.

Generally, nobody is ever "forced" to pay, even if a game is behind a paywall on Patreon. People always pledge because they belive a project is worth it. But that doesn't grant immunity for criticism or suggestions on how to speed up or improve things.

Because in the end it's still that person who set up a Patreon and said "Hey, please fund our project, so we can make it". Without the funds it would probably not exist anymore at all, since they seem even to struggle time-wise with that current huge loads of money.

What's your point, then? That you won't support them because they don't look like highly efficient people and you'd likely act differently if in their shoes? Are you really blaming them for not working at your desired pace and simply choosing to do things the way they see fit instead? Go ahead. There are 2k people who still agree with them, though, enough to keep them going.

 

[Deleted member 1666680]

What's your point, then?

I think I made that clear:

But our topic was if they could use some help, and the answer is clearly: yes, they could.

Are you really blaming them for not working at your desired pace

No, I was blaming you and other users for calling other people butthurt because they suggested that the devs could use some help to speed up things, and that they earn enough money with the project to finance that.

 

[Omnikuken]

Pretty sure they were talking about the progress tracker here in the OP.

Tracker in the OP is just an image from before they started working on 0.7 last year. It doesn't mean anything and has never been updated

 

[TheDevian]

No, I was blaming you for calling other people butthurt because they suggest that the devs could use some help to speed up things, and that they earn enough money with the project to finance that.

Help taking care of the newborn, maybe, but if you don't like how they do things, leave.

Pretty sure they were talking about the progress tracker here in the OP.

You mean this one? The one they update ALL THE TIME?

 

[Deleted member 1666680]

Help taking care of the newborn, maybe, but if you don't like how they do things, leave.

I already suggested how they could manage that in my previous post. If you don't like my posts, leave.

Hire a programmer who takes care of coding the upcoming events and quests, so the husband can take care of the baby and the mother who seems to be the artist can put more time into making the art.

And again, we're still talking about a text based visual novel with some low-framerate animations. Even if she would manage to make only one animation every two days, that would equal 150 new animations after 10 months.

If they hire an animator, that animator could do the animations once she's done with the basic skeleton pictures (so that the animator can easily use her style and keep it in check), while she can proceed drawing still images for story related content.

There are plenty of ways to juggle things. 9k a month does open up tons of opportunities. As ordinary worker you would also need to balance your work/life balance and find time with your child next to your work, but with a way lower wage and less freedom to organize yourself more efficient.

 

[Omnikuken]

It used to update at least every now and then on earlier updates. It's the first thing I looked at when checking in with this thread. Seeing the 0% everywhere I chose to visit the website to see the real thing. Not everyone will do that.
I'd argue the tracker shouldn't be here if it's never updated, since it's pretty much pointless in that case.

Take that up to the mods then. They won't care nor do anything about it though

 

[Omnikuken]

Why would I bother. I just saw someone going off using caps about how it's updated all the time when it's clearly from 2022-08-01.

He quoted to you 4 posts above with the 1 from last Friday. There's not caring and there's being blind on purpose

 

[TheDevian]

I mean that one:

Then report it to the OP. The devs have nothing to do with a pirate site.

 

[Deleted member 1666680]

Then report it to the OP. The devs have nothing to do with a pirate site.

The op IS the developer.

 

[moskyx]

No, I was blaming you and other users for calling other people butthurt because they suggested that the devs could use some help to speed up things, and that they earn enough money with the project to finance that.

Please don't confuse things: I only called 'butthurt' a very specific someone who didn't tell them to please work faster, but who went and said that the game was dead - all because they refused his undisclosed help offer, as it seems. I don't think I've called you any names for stating a respectful opinion on how you think they could do things differently.

All of us could work harder, and these devs too. There are many ways to speed things up a little. Maybe they are already doing some of them without us knowing. The fact is that, when you look at it, there's no real incentive for them to change anything: they have found a somewhat comfortable pace, patrons keep supporting them at fairly large numbers and we all suspect this long development phase will end up on a quality update, as it has always been the case. If it takes 12 months instead of 9 or 10, who cares? Surely some people won't ever support them, others may get tired and leave, but others will come as long as there's something attractive in the game. And you'll agree they'll find something attractive.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the way they are working. They are not lying to anyone, everybody can see the daily progress tracker on their patreon page (and all of the past ones on their open discord server if they want to have a look at how fast they are working), and there are weekly dev reports and a few vids of Chestnut doing the art. There's also an extensive faq section that addresses some of your suggestions and why they chose against them.

2K people see all of that and think these guys deserve to keep doing things this way. They as devs feel totally validated and, since they're decent human beings, keep working on the same basis, as that's their deal with those people who are paying them a flipping sum for a free game. Then we have a bunch of other people discussing on a pirate forum the devs don't even frequent anymore about how they don't like that. I think you'll see how all of this is actually pointless and only serves to vent your frustrations, but nothing else.

 

[Xupuzulla]

Damn they make almost 10k at month?
No wonder they went full Darkcookie mode,made that bag,Magicnuts.

 

[nexopi]

f95 has a large stable of aspiring developers who could crank out high-quality VNs in a fraction of the time that active, proven developers can manage, and yet they never seem to just... do that.

wouldn't it be great to publish your own VN, put out a ton of content at a fast pace, and rake in all that sweet patreon cash? quit your day job after ppl flock to your efficiently-coded, gorgeously-illustrated game that updates every 4 weeks with great new content?

weird how none of them ever go out and grab all that easy money with their mad skillz

 

[TheDevian]

Why would I bother. I just saw someone going off using caps about how it's updated all the time when it's clearly from 2022-08-01.

I capitalized 2 words.

"Dude! It just updated FRIDAY! They give WEEKLY updates, not daily."

And they update their site, not this one. If you want this site to be updated, or the image removed, then you need to talk to the people who have control over it. Ranting in the thread does nothing, but reading it will give you their weekly updates, because their fans will post them in the thread.

Damn they make almost 10k at month?
No wonder they went full Darkcookie mode,made that bag,Magicnuts.

They had a baby! And this is what their supporters voted for, bigger, and longer updates.

 

[Deleted member 1666680]

All of us could work harder, and these devs too. There are many ways to speed things up a little. Maybe they are already doing some of them without us knowing. The fact is that, when you look at it, there's no real incentive for them to change anything: they have found a somewhat comfortable pace, patrons keep supporting them at fairly large numbers and we all suspect this long development phase will end up on a quality update, as it has always been the case. If it takes 12 months instead of 9 or 10, who cares? Surely some people won't ever support them, others may get tired and leave, but others will come as long as there's something attractive in the game. And you'll agree they'll find something attractive.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the way they are working. They are not lying to anyone, everybody can see the daily progress tracker on their patreon page (and all of the past ones on their open discord server if they want to have a look at how fast they are working), and there are weekly dev reports and a few vids of Chestnut doing the art. There's also an extensive faq section that addresses some of your suggestions and why they chose against them.

2K people see all of that and think these guys deserve to keep doing things this way. They as devs feel totally validated and, since they're decent human beings, keep working on the same basis, as that's their deal with those people who are paying them a flipping sum for a free game. Then we have a bunch of other people discussing on a pirate forum the devs don't even frequent anymore about how they don't like that. I think you'll see how all of this is actually pointless and only serves to vent your frustrations, but nothing else.

Well, a forum is there to discuss things. So if members chime in and say "Hey, I think they could need some help, progress seems to happen slow given the amount of money they get pledged", then that's a legit topic to discuss.

And what I often see here, is that others users who feel like their personal very own project just got attacked jump in, defending the developers in their absence, suggesting that everything they do is perfect - the best it could be - and that there's no room for improvement. According to these posts no dev ever is relaxing on the huge loads of money they make through Patreon each month, and they all strive to end that great time of their life asap by finishing their project.

So this discussion wasn't about if they're doing it "wrong", or if they're secretly evil, or scamming their audience. It was about whether they use the 90k they got in the past 10 months efficiently enough to speed up development, or if they take it to make themselves a good life and just work slow and enjoy the trust and patience from their audience.

If it works for them, it works. People are pledging by free will. I didn't judge that, I never made a statement whether that's ethically correct or not. The only thing I stated is that given they didn't release anything for 90k in the past 10 months, they could certainly benefit from some help to speed up things.

Maybe I or you or another user would also do things slow with this amount of money and enjoy all the free time. In the end, if people are willing to fund it that way, you're lucky.

But people who read this thread are still potential customers / pledgers, so their opinion is valid, even if this is a pirate website. And their concerns are also legit. For some it works this way, for others it's too slow, it's fine to express or discuss that.

 

[HarryFlash]

Oh if only someone could have predicted the whinging going on in this thread after 10 months of development.
This is why I suggested this update should have been split in two. It's not that they're taking things slow, it's taking so long because it's got more tasks then any other update they've ever done.
As for the bitching about using the patreon money to speed up development. They already have a jobs page on their website and a link to it on their patreon. They've been looking for a sketch artist to help speed up the art tasks since they started the 0.7 development. As far as I'm aware that position still hasn't been filled. Of course getting a second artist that can mimic Pistachios style is going to be a hard job to fill.
Anyway they very clearly aren't milking things as they've always delivered every time they've released an update. As for us pirate's, we'll just have to be patient as the next update won't be out for a long time yet.

 

[TheDevian]

Oh if only someone could have predicted the whinging going on in this thread after 10 months of development.
This is why I suggested this update should have been split in two. It's not that they're taking things slow, it's taking so long because it's got more tasks then any other update they've ever done.
As for the bitching about using the patreon money to speed up development. They already have a jobs page on their website and a link to it on their patreon. They've been looking for a sketch artist to help speed up the art tasks since they started the 0.7 development. As far as I'm aware that position still hasn't been filled. Of course getting a second artist that can mimic Pistachios style is going to be a hard job to fill.
Anyway they very clearly aren't milking things as they've always delivered every time they've released an update. As for us pirate's, we'll just have to be patient as the next update won't be out for a long time yet.

They used to do that, and their supporters voted NOT to do that. They are giving their supporters what they asked for. They wanted full arcs, not partial teases (like with early parts).