What are the taboos for making games in prateon now?

[Stan5851]

Well, this is just an outright lie. The MC literally mind controls people and turns them into what is essentially sex slaves. I'm not a big fan of patreons rules either, but let's muddy the situation with BS like this.

Apparently, we have different ideas about the harmlessness of games, as well as the difference between a drawn game with fictional characters and reality. To me, CK doesn't seem any different from the same "Harem Hotel" in that regard. Besides, no one forces you to turn characters into slaves, it's optional, at the player's discretion. And the harsh, dark and even violent games (for me) are games like "Raptus" or "Personal Assistant: BHE" (although in PA, to the credit of its creator, we have full choice of how the MC will behave towards key characters).So interpretations can vary and what would be hardcore to one player might look like vanilla to another.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

To me, CK doesn't seem any different from the same "Harem Hotel" in that regard. Besides, no one forces you to turn people into slaves, it's optional, at the player's discretion.

It's not optional at all. Jessica, Lily, Gwen, Chloe. All non-optional. All mind controlled by the MC. (There may be more, I stopped playing it a while ago.)

So interpretations can vary and what would be hardcore to one player might look like vanilla to another.

100% agree on this. CK is not vanilla to me. MC is, for all intents and purposes, a rapist. Others will see the "soft" mind control and feel it's more vanilla. (By soft I mean they retain their personality.)

 

[Stan5851]

It's not optional at all. Jessica, Lily, Gwen, Chloe. All non-optional.

By mindbreaking I mean exactly a complete personality break (it's a separate spell), and it's definitely 100% optional... My MC broke only one girl this way (I think Chloe, who was a security guard at the Organization), the minds of the others he didn't touch. He was used the soft spell (Love).. and they all remained normal people (except Gwen, she had a slight twist, she became too adoring of the MC, but this option can be disabled in the game).

And Chloe... well it's difficult with her, 2 different personalities live in her, one of which periodically rebels against MC (in words)... Anyway, in that sense we can still be soft and not turn most characters into puppets obedient to any order, which is what I took advantage of... Because I'm interested in interacting with them normal, not broken.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

By mindbreaking I mean exactly a complete personality break (it's a separate spell), and it's definitely 100% optional... My MC broke only one girl this way (I think Chloe, who was a security guard at the Organization), the minds of the others he didn't touch. My MC was used the soft spell (Love).. and they all remained normal people (except Gwen, she had a slight twist, she became too adoring of the MC, but this option can be disabled in the game).

I mean, you don't have to mindbreak people to make them slaves. Even just using the love spell, the MC makes people completely devoted to him. People that otherwise wouldn't be. The game plays it off as the "good" option, but he's still fucking with people's minds, altering their behavior. I don't find it vanilla at all. (Not that it's a bad thing.)

 

[anne O'nymous]

Well, this is just an outright lie. The MC literally mind controls people and turns them into what is essentially sex slaves. I'm not a big fan of patreons rules either, but let's muddy the situation with BS like this.

Why are you feeding underage trolls ?

 

[peterppp]

Not just big devs. No one have ever had his page removed right of the bat. And I mean absolutely no one.
There isn't a single example of a dev loosing his account because he had banned content, excepted those who categorically refused to remove the said content.

not true. patreon has gotten tougher lately. i've seen several devs saying their pages got removed right away. or effectively removed but Patreon puts it under review to first refund the pledges. this is from

You must be registered to see the links

a few days ago:

no warning. just bam. that doesn't mean there is no way patreon will listen if the dev tries to change whatever the offending content is, but the trend is that it's gone from "this isn't allowed, fix it" more to "your page is removed"

 

[asen-de]

no warning. just bam. that doesn't mean there is no way patreon will listen if the dev tries to change whatever the offending content is, but the trend is that it's gone from "this isn't allowed, fix it" more to "your page is removed"

In case the Dev is living in Germany, he might consider filing a lawsuit because you can't ban an account without prior warning. German ruling state:

1. You have to inform before the actual account banning
2. You have to tell the reason (in detail)
3. You have to give the opportunity to appeal
4. You have to reconsider after the steps above were taken before making the final decision

Twitch got blasted recently for banning german streamer accounts without giving a reason. So the chance for success is quite high

This kind of stricter rules for these platforms might also apply to other countries, I don't know. Just keep in mind that the companies TOS is not worth much against actual laws

 

[anne O'nymous]

i've seen several devs saying their pages got removed right away.

And it's often proved false. I don't remember what was the dev name, but the last one who make it big with his "Patreon is bad" attempt forgot that few, days before his effective ban, he published a post saying that he just received a warning and had not intent to comply. And, alas, he's not the only one that have been caught lying that way.
It's easy to claim innocence when the public have only one side of the story.

I don't say that it's the case here, but I'm suspicious now. Especially when seeing a screenshot that have lax margin everywhere, except at the bottom. Why bother to cut right here, and not for the rest ? I don't know if you had to do this, but it need a bit of precision that usually people don't care about, unless they want to not show the rest.
Perhaps is it just a coincidence, but I tend to not believe in coincidence when they come so handy.

Must also be kept in mind that it's now a third party company that is in charge of the Trust and Safety service for Patreon.

In case the Dev is living in Germany, he might consider filing a lawsuit because you can't ban an account without prior warning.

OMG, there's many issues here...

Firstly, by not respecting the Terms of Use, he is the one who broke the contract he had with Patreon. So, strictly speaking, as well as legally speaking, Patreon just took note of this.
And, in before, by checking the "I read the ToS" case when creating his account, he engaged his responsibility. I know that we all lie and check without reading, but well, we shouldn't be surprised if it come back right in our face. So, he also can't pretend that he didn't knew that he wasn't respecting the contract.

Secondly, Patreon do not depend on the [whatever country that isn't the USA] jurisdiction, and therefore do not have to follow [the same country] law. Would they have a subsidiary located in the country, it would be a bit different, but it's not the case for Patreon.

Thirdly, depending on what is the effective content that led to Patreon reaction, the possibility that he was creating content illegal in his country is relatively high. So, it would be like calling the cops because someone stole your drugs.

 

[asen-de]

OMG, there's many issues here...

Firstly, by not respecting the Terms of Use, he is the one who broke the contract he had with Patreon. So, strictly speaking, as well as legally speaking, Patreon just took note of this.
And, in before, by checking the "I read the ToS" case when creating his account, he engaged his responsibility. I know that we all lie and check without reading, but well, we shouldn't be surprised if it come back right in our face. So, he also can't pretend that he didn't knew that he wasn't respecting the contract.

Secondly, Patreon do not depend on the [whatever country that isn't the USA] jurisdiction, and therefore do not have to follow [the same country] law. Would they have a subsidiary located in the country, it would be a bit different, but it's not the case for Patreon.

Thirdly, depending on what is the effective content that led to Patreon reaction, the possibility that he was creating content illegal in his country is relatively high. So, it would be like calling the cops because someone stole your drugs.

It sounds like you misunderstood something..

Patreon can ban him for breaking their TOS, there are no issues with that specifically. But the way they do it must be in confirmation with the law. You can't just outright ban someone without a warning or telling the reason etc. This is simply against the (german) law and that is all there is to it. I just listed what the platforms need to do before they can ban a creator/dev/account from Germany for whatever reason.

(Btw. of course Patreon has to obey the laws of other countries, where do you got that idea that they don't need to? Also, every TOS is invalid if it gets in conflict with to the law, that is common sense..)

Edit: This is where I got that from, might be interesting for any German Devs with a Patreon account. A twitch streamer/youtuber got a permaban on twitch and won a lawsuit against them. They had to unban him:

You must be registered to see the links

, Reaction of the a lawyer who confirms that and advertises for going suing in case that happens to others:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[peterppp]

And it's often proved false. I don't remember what was the dev name, but the last one who make it big with his "Patreon is bad" attempt forgot that few, days before his effective ban, he published a post saying that he just received a warning and had not intent to comply. And, alas, he's not the only one that have been caught lying that way.
It's easy to claim innocence when the public have only one side of the story.

I don't say that it's the case here, but I'm suspicious now. Especially when seeing a screenshot that have lax margin everywhere, except at the bottom. Why bother to cut right here, and not for the rest ? I don't know if you had to do this, but it need a bit of precision that usually people don't care about, unless they want to not show the rest.
Perhaps is it just a coincidence, but I tend to not believe in coincidence when they come so handy.

Must also be kept in mind that it's now a third party company that is in charge of the Trust and Safety service for Patreon.

that's the screenshot posted on discord, i didn't edit it.

we can never trust the devs' own words (or anyone's word when they are upset), true, but i've noticed the general trend in the messages they got from patreon. a couple of years back, i can't remember there being so much "we are removing" when devs post screenshot of the mails from patreon. i've also seen that there is a message that they can ask to be reinstated after 2 months or something (that could possibly be in the last part that he edited out). this might be something new, that previously they gave people more of a chance to change things before removing instead of doing it like removing->apply for a new patreon in 2 months. just thinking out loud here. could be just a temporary thing also.

anyway, my original point was that it wouldn't surprise me if patreon would think twice before removing a big game like milfy city as easily as some other games/devs that have been removed.

 

[anne O'nymous]

It sounds like you misunderstood something..

Yeah, it's your very strange way to understand how contract, law, and jurisdiction works.

This is simply against the (german) law and that is all there is to it.

German Law that do not apply to a contract passed with a company that is located in California and, therefore, depend on the Californian jurisdiction and on the Californian Law. This especially when the said contract explicitly say that it is passed under the Law of California.


Why the fucking fuck do I need to say something so obvious, and to say it twice to the same person ?

 

[asen-de]

Yeah, it's your very strange way to understand how contract, law, and jurisdiction works.




German Law that do not apply to a contract passed with a company that is located in California and, therefore, depend on the Californian jurisdiction and on the Californian Law. This especially when the said contract explicitly say that it is passed under the Law of California.


Why the fucking fuck do I need to say something so obvious, and to say it twice to the same person ?

Because you are repeating false statements. Twitch lost a lawsuit in germany and had to un-ban a german streamer just 2 weeks ago. Youtube, Instagram, Facebook and very likely also Patreon would lose as well if they banned someone the same way Twitch did (no prior notification, no reason telling etc).. especially when there is money involved.

 

[bolso_lula]

Because you are repeating false statements.

Because this guys is either trolling or is some patreon staff doing damage control.

 

[asen-de]

..This ignorance kind of grind my gears.

I mean he must know that..let’s say you are an US citizen, you can also sue a German company right? Or any other foreign company operating in the US

Let’s say your new BMWs auto pilot sends you flying into the next tree, you can sue them...even if their terms say...hey you agreed we can do that, it is allowed in Germany (let’s pretend it is). You can say you don’t care because the US legislation does not allow it no matter what your terms say...So..if BMW wants to keep operating in the US making contracts with US citizens, they need to follow US laws, no matter what the laws say from their country…that also goes the other way around..

I am sitting here like...bruh...I can’t believe you don’t know this...and this is such an important thing to know for Devs that you might be able to sue in certain cases

 

[anne O'nymous]

Twitch lost a lawsuit in germany and had to un-ban a german streamer just 2 weeks ago.

It's Twitch Interactive Germany GmbH, that lost a lawsuit. The German subsidiary of Twitch, that operate in Germany and under the German Law, and with which any German user of Twitch pass his contract...

 

[asen-de]

It's Twitch Interactive Germany GmbH, that lost a lawsuit. The German subsidiary of Twitch, that operate in Germany and under the German Law, and with which any German user of Twitch pass his contract...

Here we go:

Impressum
Patreon Ireland Limited, deutsche Niederlassung
Revaler Straße 99, Halle 20, 2. OG
Räume 3.19 und 3.25.
10245 Berlin-Friedrichshain, Deutschland
Telefon: +1 (833) 972-8766
E-Mail: legal@patreon.com

I'm also kind of convinced now that you are actually a Patreon agent roaming around here...

[Edit: And there is no "special contract for germans" we all agree to the same damn thing from the same damn site...but the legitimization of the rules we agree to differs from country to country ...my gosh...]

 

[碧贵五星]

作者刚刚发布了一款新游戏，是新作者：
patreon.com/user?u=91549169

 

[bolso_lula]

Another creator banned for basically nothing.
Remember, your game don't break the rules yet