What's more preferred and easier to work with RPGM or Ren'py

[bcsjkdfjksh]

Hey! I'm currently in the process of deciding what engine to use? Which would be easier to learn and use? Which would you prefer

 

[scrumbles]

Choose the most suitable engine for your game.
If you want to make a visual novel, forget RPG Maker. Take one from Ren'py, Visual Novel Maker and Tyranobuilder. Or Unity if you want to reinvent the wheel.

 

[I'm Not Thea Lundgren!]

It really depends on the game you are planning. A lot of games are VNs so in that respect, I think Renpy is the way to go.
Renpy is pretty easy to learn to use too. But it can also have a steep learning curve depending on how many choices and branches you have.

TL;DR, Use the engine that fits with your game.

 

[anne O'nymous]

TL;DR, Use the engine that fits with your game.

And like there's probably more than one, then the one you feel the more at ease with.

 

[shark_inna_hat]

Renpy is good for VNs, use that if you're making a VN (or whatever else you have good knowledge of, it's not rocket science, one can make a vn in PowerPoint).
If you're not making a jRPG don't use RPGM.
If you are making a jRPG... well, maybe Godot?

 

[Sphere42]

RPGM is a lot better/easier for creating a somewhat cohesive and immersive world, if you pick the correct tilesets that is. That seems to be its only advantage (it is quite substantial though) so if your game does not require an open world or an immersive setting to set the tone Ren'Py being python-based will be far more versatile and far easier to modify.

Plus some people have developed a burning hatred for RPGM due to devs not heeding the above and instead making empty walking simulators, so if you want to make money you might want to avoid RPGM simply to preempt any such accusations.

No vote because I DO mind but have seen both used well, I agree with

Choose the most suitable engine for your game.

 

[fidless]

Renpy is better for kinetic novels, and people prefer that engine more.
RPGM is easier since there are hundreds of free plugins to shape your game however you want. But it has its quirks, and it requires an understanding of how the engine works if you're going to create something like a proper vn with gameplay. The upsides are better editor and tons of plugins. It's easier to organize stuff and create gameplay stuff. No programming skills required, but it's not favorable engine because lots of horrible games are made with it. Also, there's a noticeable group of people who will try to derail your game topic just because a game is made with rpgm. The blind hatred for rpgm exist.
Overall, I would say it's a lot easier engine to work with, especially if you're making a game with gameplay elements.
But it requires a lot of experience if you want to set up vn like a game with buttons for hiding message window, backlog, etc. You need knowledge and understanding to make a proper game with it, but it has fewer limitations than renpy on what you can create, especially if you're nonprogrammer. In short, it's easy to start with, but hard to master engine.
I was told my game Hentai Punch! was pretty impressive. That's a game made with 0 background in programming and it's a bare minimum what you can achieve with the engine. So that's something.
If it's a pure visual novel game, pick renpy. It has better working vn functions from the get-go. And it's the engine the audience prefers.
I pick rpgm because it's more fun and easier to work with.

 

[Joraell]

Hey! I'm currently in the process of deciding what engine to use? Which would be easier to learn and use? Which would you prefer

It's easy. With RPGM you can do your easy game withou knowing any code. Just clicking on "buttons" In renpy you will do nothing without knowing any code.

 

[anne O'nymous]

but it has fewer limitations than renpy on what you can create, especially if you're nonprogrammer.

I'll pass on the supposed limitations of Ren'py, I'm tired of that, to only point the main limitation of RPG Maker when it come to Visual Novel : It's horrible slowness when it need to load an image.

RPG Maker is entirely designed to works with sprites, all the code is optimized to works with pictures that, all together, will take less place than a single one of the pictures you'll use for a Visual Novel. And even with modern computer you'll feel it time to time, because the image are loaded the instant they are needed. This contrarily to Ren'py which is optimized for this and pre-load the images that will be displayed later in the game.

 

[Deleted member 1023239]

It's easy. With RPGM you can do your easy game withou knowing any code. Just clicking on "buttons" In renpy you will do nothing without knowing any code.

yeah after some research i found out that rpgm can be transformed like renp'y
like these script

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You must be registered to see the links

you can find all of those information

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Joraell]

yeah after some research i found out that rpgm can be transformed like renp'y
like these script

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

you can find all of those information

You must be registered to see the links

With enough knowledge you can do almost with every engine whatver you want, just depending on own skill and amount of time

 

[fidless]

I'll pass on the supposed limitations of Ren'py, I'm tired of that, to only point the main limitation of RPG Maker when it come to Visual Novel : It's horrible slowness when it need to load an image.

RPG Maker is entirely designed to works with sprites, all the code is optimized to works with pictures that, all together, will take less place than a single one of the pictures you'll use for a Visual Novel. And even with modern computer you'll feel it time to time, because the image are loaded the instant they are needed. This contrarily to Ren'py which is optimized for this and pre-load the images that will be displayed later in the game.

That's a false statement.
It's like some people point out that rpgm base game is like ~200-300mb which is false. My base game which I started to work with was 2mb or that you're limited to 5000 variables etc (you can increase to any number). People have lots of misconceptions of this engine which is a shame.
You're talking about png format? Because I use webm for my game and have no idea on what slowness to display images you're talking about. Also, you can use preloaders to load multiple images in advance, though it's rarely needed except for web versions to make an experience smoother.

And yes, renpy has limitations. Can you make something like this without being an expert with python? I could with 0 knowledge in programming, though less impressive.

Just like I said. Go for pure VN with renpy. It's a better option. It has better performance, wider audience, you don't need to break your head over implementing systems which proper vn should have etc. UI responds quicker in most cases.
But it's easier to make a game with gameplay with rpgm, especially for non-programmers. I'm not arguing which engine is better, both have weaknesses and strengths.

 

[anne O'nymous]

And yes, renpy has limitations. Can you make something like this without being an expert with python? I could with 0 knowledge in programming, though less impressive.

Obviously that you can... The whole

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let you do all the animated parts very easily.

You want a complex setting, like when the character is crossing the bridge in the second video ?

image charWalking:
   "frame1.png"
   pause 0.5
   "frame2.png"
   pause 0.5
   "frame3.png"
   pause 0.5
   "frame4.png"
   pause 0.5
   repeat

image lightning:
   "frame1.png"
   pause 0.1
   "frame2.png"
   pause 0.1
   "frame3.png"
   pause 0.1
   "frame4.png"
   pause 0.1

image background:
   parallel: 
      "cloud.png"
      xpos 0
      linear 1.5 xpos -100
   parallel: 
       pause 3.0
       contains lightning
       repeat
   parallel:
      "mountain.png"
      xpos 0
      linear 1.0 xpos -200
   parallel:
      "bridge.png"
      xpos 0
      linear 0.5 xpos -300

label whatever:
   show background
   show charWalking:
      xpos 0
      xlinear 0.5 xpos 1000
   pause 5

It surely need few adjustment since I wrote it on the fly, but it's all you need to have a three level differential scrolling, with a lightning that will appear every 3 seconds while the character is walking across the bridge. And all that is needed is purely native to Ren'py.
It's the same for an animated crowd (I pass the definition of the animations themselves, it's the same thing than above for "charWalking") :

label whatever:
   show background:
       xpos 0
       xlinear 0.5 xpos -300
   show mcWalk:
      xpos 0
      xlinear 0.5 xpos 1000
   show char1Walk:
      xpos 250
      pause 1.0
      xlinear 0.5 xpos 500
   show char2sharpingSword
   show char3Walk:
      xpos 700
      pause 2.5
      xlinear 0.5 xpos 200

And so on...
Add few things, still native to Ren'py, and you can make the MC move right or left, then stop when asked ; but it need a little more than basic knowledge.

It's not because people don't bother to read the documentation, that Ren'py can't do this or that natively. And there's no need to be a genius or to know how to code to do this. You just need to read the doc and pass one day or two experimenting to be sure that you understood what each statement of the ATL do.


It doesn't mean that Ren'py is the more suitable engine for this kind of games but, according to their promotional videos, the two that you showed as example can be done with Ren'py and without the need to use Python.

 

[fidless]

And yet I still to see a single game made this way with renpy. You should understand why no one is making games like this with it. RPGM is easy. Download a plugin, make a 6x8 sprite for diagonal movement and you have 9 directional sprites. No need to write thousands of line of codes for every small detail your character can encounter.
Too much time consuming and complex. A weak argument.

Your comment
"You want a complex setting "

Just proves my point. This is not a complex thing in rpgm. It's the default behavior which you can set up without much trouble.

I could argue that rpgm is suitable for vn games, because you can achieve the same effect with buttons etc. But I don't. Because renpy is more suitable for it and easier to set up and work that way. The fact that there's not a single game like this in renpy should be enough reason to dismiss that renpy is as good (or suitable) as rpgm in this regard.

You can also make a 3d game in rpgm, but you shouldn't for many reasons. Use the software for its purposes, that's it.

 

[Deleted member 1023239]

And yet I still to see a single game made this way with renpy. You should understand why no one is making games like this with it. RPGM is easy. Download a plugin, make a 6x8 sprite for diagonal movement and you have 9 directional sprites. No need to write thousands of line of codes for every small detail your character can encounter.
Too much time consuming and complex. A weak argument.
Just like I could argue that rpgm is suitable for vn games, because you can achieve the same effect with buttons etc. But I don't. Because renpy is more suitable for it and easier to set up and work that way.

RPGM is easy to use that's why the program is not free and renp'y is free to use but you must be familiar with phyton programming, it's like to compare windows and linux, however i wouldn't mind about what engine you will use as long as your game have a nice and decent story

 

[fidless]

RPGM is easy to use

Ahhh, but it's actually not that easy to make complex stuff To make proper good quality stuff, I would say you would need at least 1 year of practice with it. If you're the first-timer at this stuff, I mean. There's so much to learn, so it's debatable if it's worth the time choosing it over renpy if you're not going to use rpgm for its full potential. I would say, it's not.

 

[Deleted member 1023239]

Ahhh, but it's actually not that easy to make complex stuff

that's why creativity and logic is needed

 

[fidless]

that's why creativity and logic is needed

Mostly its practice and determination what counts. I've seen many creative people with big ideas who put little effort into what they were making just to end up with a buggy mess. With determination comes a desire to be more creative etc. to make a better game.

 

[anne O'nymous]

And yet I still to see a single game made this way with renpy. You should understand why no one is making games like this with it.

I know why, I even said it. It's not because it's difficult, but because they read the doc only when they want to make something really specific. And yet, they don't search if it's already possible but how to use Python to do it.
Take a game like Summertime Saga by example. They created a user defined displayable for their animations... while the exact same result could have been achieved with a four lines screen. It would have needed less time to read the full page regarding the Screen language, and so understand how to write the said screen, than they needed to learn how to write their own displayable, then create it.

Your comment
"You want a complex setting "

Just proves my point. This is not a complex thing in rpgm. It's the default behavior which you can set up without much trouble.

It's the setting which is complex, not it's realization. And like I given an example of the code needed, it's easy to see that it don't need much to be done with Ren'py.
You're just playing with words to not change your view.

The fact that there's not a single game like this in renpy should be enough reason to dismiss that renpy is as good (or suitable) as rpgm in this regard.

The fact that there's a RPG Maker emulator wrote with Ren'py tend to say the opposite.
The emulator itself isn't perfect and don't effectively implement all the possibilities. But the same can be made natively with Ren'py, including what is missing.

This said, if there's not a single game like this in Ren'py, it's partly because it's not the best engine for this, and partly because there's people who pass their time saying that it can't be done with Ren'py. When you're a guy with few, when not none, knowledge in coding, that just want to make your idea come true, you don't bother to verify if those peoples are right or not. They say that it's not possible, you believe them.
Yet, there's many examples of way more advanced games made with Ren'py. Fashion Business, that use sprites to handle the different light setting according to the period of the day. Girl in the Big city, that use advanced techniques for the game. My strange sister, that use sprites to customize the girl. There's even one, I can't remember its name, who use both sprites and transformations for its animations. And there's all the ones with animations that people assume to be videos.
But like some people are convinced that even things like this can't be done with Ren'py, they assume that there's a different picture/video for every single case. Therefore, despite the proof of the opposite being right in front of them, what they think is that it would have needed less time and images to do the same with another game engine.

You can also make a 3d game in rpgm, but you shouldn't for many reasons. Use the software for its purposes, that's it.

You mean real time 3D, or something like the three years old Sakura Dungeon ? And again I'm sure that many people played this games thinking that another engine would have prevented the use of a different background for every single possibilities. This said, the game is the proof that it's possible, but the code itself is an horror and could have been way more simple.

 

[fidless]

No. Proper 3D game, but it's not suited for this so it's better to use any other game engine like unity.

My argument is RPGM is great, because any newb can make stuff you just described "advanced" easily without understanding the codding in it.
And I wouldn't use Sakura dungeon as an example. The game developers stole the whole combat/rpg code from other devs who made almost identical game but only available in jp, because it's hard as f to make a game like this on renpy. And the people are amazed by the quality, which is understandable. It looks great. On the other hand, you can download

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and make a combat system like that under the month of time in rpgm. Because the engine is made for that purpose and it's way easier to set up everything.
That's my point.

My main point of rpgm is, it's easier to work with. Has a nice editor with which it's easy to organize stuff and has a great community with hundreds and hundreds of useful plugins. You started your argument with a false statement and now trying to prove your point using only a few games which are exceptional to renpy. I've never said it's impossible, I said it's easier to make such stuff in rpgm and you need to be at least advanced programmer to make stuff what you could with plug&play plugins in rpgm.
Anyways, I don't really want to argue anymore. Have the stuff to make. Both engines are great for their purposes. I hope we're good.