VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[Winterstale]

Ocean has a get out jail free card. Is a fictitious world, is a inconcistence easly dealt with.




I say it as a good thing, I don't get the feeling that he is concern with our opinion, don't beat yourself with it. I don't know if the Steam is this saving grace, the problem I think is the NTR, for those who like it, it has too little, for those who don't the possibility is enough to not touch it.

Is a really great game and story. But is a story hard to sell.

I’ve never quite understood all the fuss over the NTR element in this particular game. After all, you can switch it off if it’s not your cup of tea - though doing so might tone down the overall experience. Besides, it’s clearly stated that if you play your cards right, you can sidestep all the NTR content entirely. Personally, I find that leaving it in the mix actually makes the story feel more believable (or at least a shade more realistic), which in turn makes those "what if" scenarios even more interesting

 

[LHDLLB]

I’ve never quite understood all the fuss over the NTR element in this particular game. After all, you can switch it off if it’s not your cup of tea - though doing so might tone down the overall experience. Besides, it’s clearly stated that if you play your cards right, you can sidestep all the NTR content entirely. Personally, I find that leaving it in the mix actually makes the story feel more believable (or at least a shade more realistic), which in turn makes those "what if" scenarios even more interesting

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you, is just that I would say for most of the AVNs players the simple possibility of NTR is enough for them do not play the game. And wait years to have Miru being fucked in front of William is also not appealing to NTR fans. For me if it is opitnal a game can have as much kinkys and the dev wants, as long as it is legal.

 

[yossa999]

I mean...we would have other topics to discuss if Ocean had dropped an update to this game in the past year....

I completely agree with this.

But you're right. This shit goes in loops. You're great at memeing and pointing out looping topics but you're quite bad at providing counter arguments to any flaws that are discussed. As evidenced by your dismissal of the points we're discussing as incest fetishism. That doesn't make you smart. It shows you either don't care about the story making a lick of sense or are too intellectually limited to provide a valid counter argument.

A bait suitable for a schoolchild.

You didn't expect me to rush to prove to you that I'm not as bad at making arguments as you claim, or to discuss my intellectual limitations, did you?

It seems you play too much of Ocean's games. It only works with someone like Zara. I know she's your favorite, but I'm nothing like her (maybe unfortunately ).

Anyway, you are right about one thing: I couldn't care less about discussing incest fetishism.

 

[Winterstale]

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with you, is just that I would say for most of the AVNs players the simple possibility of NTR is enough for them do not play the game. And wait years to have Miru being fucked in front of William is also not appealing to NTR fans. For me if it is opitnal a game can have as much kinkys and the dev wants, as long as it is legal.

Honestly, it all boils down to how skillfully you weave this element into the narrative. If NTR is just tossed in for cheap thrills or fetish fuel, it can feel dreadfully stale - at least for my taste. But when it’s done with finesse and, as you mentioned, kept optional, it can elevate the story and give players that cherished sense of having multiple pathways. Not only does it ramp up engagement, but it also gives players that satisfying illusion of choice and control, a win-win, if you ask me

 

[LHDLLB]

Honestly, it all boils down to how skillfully you weave this element into the narrative. If NTR is just tossed in for cheap thrills or fetish fuel, it can feel dreadfully stale - at least for my taste. But when it’s done with finesse and, as you mentioned, kept optional, it can elevate the story and give players that cherished sense of having multiple pathways. Not only does it ramp up engagement, but it also gives players that satisfying illusion of choice and control, a win-win, if you ask me

I also agree. The problem is less how well is executed and more a matter of public. As a kinky is a very divisive one, AVNs is much of a fantasy self fulfilled media, you fuck everyone and has a Harem, if found the love of your life and lives drama free - mostly- or you are the Beta that will be abused and humiliated. While WiaB NTR approach elevates its story telling, it undermines the fantasy aspect of it, something that I don't think a part of the consume is found off, even if you and I appreciates it.

 

[Winterstale]

I also agree. The problem is less how well is executed and more a matter of public. As a kinky is a very divisive one, AVNs is much of a fantasy self fulfilled media, you fuck everyone and has a Harem, if found the love of your life and lives drama free - mostly- or you are the Beta that will be abused and humiliated. While WiaB NTR approach elevates its story telling, it undermines the fantasy aspect of it, something that I don't think a part of the consume is found off, even if you and I appreciates it.

 

[John972]

Yossa? Is that you?

I could not possibly disagree more with your view on this. You say there is more to the story than...lets use the words "family relationships" instead of "incest" here. There isn't. Not yet at least. All we have right now is a premise. And that premise is the MC returning to a place he didn't want to go back to, to see people he didn't want to see again because his not-mother got into an accident and refuses to speak now.

No she wasn't hurt. She isn't dying. She doesn't need blood or a vital organ. She just "lost her voice". How does it make any fucking sense whatsoever for William to put himself through something he REALLY doesn't want to just to see an unrelated lady that isn't speaking anymore!?!?!?

So I ask what else is there besides "family relationship drama"? Leia's pimping and drug dealing? We have no proof it's connected to the planet sized woman's accident. No connection whatsoever to the Krayt as of this moment. So no. I have to pushback on that. There is nothing more to this game at this moment than literal family drama. And THAT gets destroyed the moment they are not family anymore.

So no, fuck your fetish kink reasoning. I would never touch Leia, Dylan or Gigantor. As for Katie i'd bang her no matter what. Related, unrelated who gives a fuck. She's hot. As long as she is a biological woman, I'm in!

EDIT: Thank God for Krytax123 for the much needed injection of common sense in this thread.

Ocean faces a shit sandwich. I don't know how he's gonna handle it, but the likely way forward is to not make William a Zane (is that feasible? Is it too late for such a change because of the bleed through into SG?). Then he has to concoct a cliched AVN backstory about how and why a stranger came to live with the Zane family (rolls eyes). Could he achieve that successfully? Maybe, but his handling of Nika/Nami in Season 1 of SG suggests otherwise. With that one, Ocean still tries to have his cake and eat it too...

I still believe it's theoretically possible to biologically disassociate William from the Zane family (creating a much mocked AVN trope) while keeping a lot of the relationship tension in the game.

So no, fuck your fetish kink reasoning. I would never touch Leia, Dylan or Gigantor.

Nice way to shit all over those fans who are in to Leia and/or Helen (for clarification, I'm not one of them, but I don't begrudge those that are).

PS - I grew up with a biological sister and two female foster children (sisters) that my parents took in. Not that I ever felt that way, but any hanky panky with the sisters was absolutely taboo, even though they were not biological siblings. They were treated like family, although they never truly fitted in during the 6-8 years they stayed. For the record, the sisters left the family by age 12-14 (shortly before my younger sister was born; I was 13 then). The exact details on years and ages is hazy now. This is one of the reasons I believe SG and WIAB don't need incest to work - because I can personally relate to a different "family" dynamic. ... and no, the foster sisters didn't refer to my mum as the "landlady"

 

[anon43221]

Yeah thanks for that highly educational and pointless post.

Anytime, I figured you'd appreciate something at your intellectual level for once

 

[RNasc4444]

Nice way to shit all over those fans who are in to Leia and/or Helen (for clarification, I'm not one of them, but I don't begrudge those that are).

I really didn't mean it like that. I have no issues with people being into Leia/Helen. And I'm neutral on incest. Depends on the game, the story and the characters. Similar to NTR. As long as it's not forced on the player without previous notice I'm absolutely fine with it.

I meant "fuck the kink fetish" as a way to dismiss anyone that has issues with the plot as it stands if the Zanes aren't all related. That's all.

Anyways I'm gonna stay away from this topic until the next update drops and we see how Ocean tackles this issue.

 

[John972]

I really didn't mean it like that. I have no issues with people being into Leia/Helen. And I'm neutral on incest. Depends on the game, the story and the characters. Similar to NTR. As long as it's not forced on the player without previous notice I'm absolutely fine with it.

I meant "fuck the kink fetish" as a way to dismiss anyone that has issues with the plot as it stands if the Zanes aren't all related. That's all.

Anyways I'm gonna stay away from this topic until the next update drops and we see how Ocean tackles this issue.

Just putting this in a spoiler because of web crawlers:

My own thought on incest in this game is that it's simply a hot potato, and I mean that purely for the risk it poses for Ocean's future revenue streams via third party providers (for both SG/WIAB). This seemingly came to fruition when WIAB was removed from Patreon. For me personally, incest is not my thing (having two sisters and, for a time, two foster sisters IRL just turns me off the subject), but I am happy to play games that contain it because I can more or less chose ignore it and pretend the whole landlady thing. I don't begrudge those that like it.

I said in a post a year or so ago that Ocean needs to either go all in or remove any hint of incest entirely. As it turns out, he didn't do that with SG Season 1 when he had the chance to do so with the Nika/Nami relationship. He keeps trying to maintain this illusion of ambiguity in both games, and I don't think that's working out.

Just to be clear, I want Ocean to either be unabashedly all in (thus, accepting the business/financial risk long term) or to remove the incest entirely. Enough of this nod, nod, wink, wink shit already. If he chooses the latter with WIAB, he needs to be doing it now, and, obviously, he needs to come up with a convincing alternative explanation for the existing relationship dynamics. EDIT: ... and the only way I can see Ocean achieving this is by not having William related by blood to the others.

 

[LHDLLB]

Just putting this in a spoiler because of web crawlers:

My own thought on incest in this game is that it's simply a hot potato, and I mean that purely for the risk it poses for Ocean's future revenue streams via third party providers (for both SG/WIAB). This seemingly came to fruition when WIAB was removed from Patreon. For me personally, incest is not my thing (having two sisters and, for a time, two foster sisters IRL just turns me off the subject), but I am happy to play games that contain it because I can more or less chose ignore it and pretend the whole landlady thing. I don't begrudge those that like it.

I said in a post a year or so ago that Ocean needs to either go all in or remove any hint of incest entirely. As it turns out, he didn't do that with SG Season 1 when he had the chance to do so with the Nika/Nami relationship. He keeps trying to maintain this illusion of ambiguity in both games, and I don't think that's working out.

Just to be clear, I want Ocean to either be unabashedly all in (thus, accepting the business/financial risk long term) or to remove the incest entirely. Enough of this nod, nod, wink, wink shit already. If he chooses the latter with WIAB, he needs to be doing it now, and, obviously, he needs to come up with a convincing alternative explanation for the existing relationship dynamics. EDIT: ... and the only way I can see Ocean achieving this is by not having William related by blood tothe others.

I fully agree, on all fronts, but right now there is nothing to do beside play the waiting game. When Ch4 is released we will know or at least have a idea of what direction he will go. Until then everything is really up in the air. But I would die laughing if after months of discussion the evil modder returned with a new mod, right after the release.

 

[John972]

I fully agree, on all fronts, but right now there is nothing to do beside play the waiting game. When Ch4 is released we will know or at least have a idea of what direction he will go. Until then everything is really up in the air. But I would die laughing if after months of discussion the evil modder returned with a new mod, right after the release.

To be honest, my fear is that any changes made are done in a way that still retains too much inconsistency/ambiguity/contradiction in the story. That's why I advocate an all in or all out approach (an all out approach would leave that evil modder with some serious work to do , to the point where the modded version of WIAB is akin to "What's Up, Tiger Lily?" )

 

[LHDLLB]

To be honest, my fear is that any changes made are done in a way that still retains too much inconsistency/ambiguity/contradiction in the story. That's why I advocate an all in or all out approach (an all out approach would leave that evil modder with some serious work to do , to the point where the modded version of WIAB is akin to "What's Up, Tiger Lily?" )

I quite agree too, but I fear this will not be the approach, I am betting on a SG situation, for better or worse. Also what up tiver lily is a masterpiece.

 

[John972]

I quite agree too, but I fear this will not be the approach, I am betting on a SG situation, for better or worse. Also what up tiver lily is a masterpiece.

Well, this was worth a try...

Spoiler: WIAB: A New Beginning (heavy /S)

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[lillos]

Well, this was worth a try...

Spoiler: WIAB: A New Beginning (heavy /S)

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but what the sh''''t is that!!?That's no sense,if ocean fear about patreon rules,why doesn't patch like all others games of incest gen?it's simple and works,the idea of the reality show will desroy all the plot of the game...lol

 

[txe320]

but what the sh''''t is that!!?That's no sense,if ocean fear about patreon rules,why doesn't patch like all others games of incest gen?it's simple and works,the idea of the reality show will desroy all the plot of the game...lol

It's;



Ocean won't do that idea of course, but he will probably scrap all incest stuff ans references. My guess is that MC's parents abandoned him or died or whatever and he was close to the family like, Helen was his mother or father best friend or something like that so he's really, REALLY close to that family, consider them like his own but they aren't related at all.

 

[John972]

but what the sh''''t is that!!?That's no sense,if ocean fear about patreon rules,why doesn't patch like all others games of incest gen?it's simple and works,the idea of the reality show will desroy all the plot of the game...lol

 

[yossa999]

View attachment 4472061

That's what I'm talking about, you can change the story however you want until the game is over. Just put this conversation at the end of the game, make it a flashback and voila! All the plot holes are explained and it's clear as day why Nami is red.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Maybe, but his handling of Nika/Nami in Season 1 of SG suggests otherwise. With that one, Ocean still tries to have his cake and eat it too...

Well, this was worth a try...

Spoiler: WIAB: A New Beginning (heavy /S)

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Finally the problem is solved XD

 

[sorco2003]

To bring some closure to the Patreon vs SS issue. I was chatting with someone on Discord via DM, and he leaves me this image of the SS ToS.




You can find all of it here:

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