VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

I have asked about this change of the devlog in a DM on discord directly on the same days as it has happened. And no, will not share my chat history with Ocean here - you have to trust me, beside this it's only in German and only a handful here could get something out of this.

His answer was more or less your suspicion from just now. He fears that someone could come after him through old devlogs, looks like that SS is not the safe harbour for this kind of stuff as we all have thought.

Ocean biggest goal for the future is to achieve as much independence as possible from Patreon/SS.

MY personal opinion is, as soon Ocean have reached this goal he can be more or less open speak and write about this kind of stuff.

Thanks for sharing what you do regardless of how much, any clarification is appreciated. As sorco said, we're all in the dark - I support Ocean by buying on Steam and GOG, but there's not much space to find out what's going on without being a sub. And I do understand the reasons. Ocean's stop-gap solution should be to deploy more emergency Katie renders though, she has a certain effect that we never get tired of

I also understand that even with changes, nothing will be 100% clear anyway, the game thrives on mystery and allusions.

 

[-VALKORION-]

I'm not following closely anymore. But I think ocean really represents the best and worst of this niche. An aspiring artist who creates a vision people love, while striving to improve their skills. only to sell out, and betray the vision they sold people on to begin with. It's totally understandable, and predictable, but just sucks. my hope for these games is that they get finished, and someone just deletes the scripts (simply put) and replaces them with something closer to the original narrative (restoring the original dynamics). And I get why he sold out, we live in a world where money matters. But it's killed my interest in what he makes. I'm more interested in what others might make from what he makes.

 

[Maviarab]

now we have another 15 days to continue talking about what we have been talking about, that is Katie, always Katie

Oceans hope is that he can get more independency through steam.

Ocean biggest goal for the future is to achieve as much independence as possible from Patreon/SS

Maybe someone should tell him then (like he did with SG for Steam) to fecking put SG to one side then and finish WIAB and get it released on Steam instead of constantly fucking about and pushing this to one side because he was 'SG inspired' for a week....!

 

[Mortarion]

Maybe someone should tell him then (like he did with SG for Steam) to fecking put SG to one side then and finish WIAB and get it released on Steam instead of constantly fucking about and pushing this to one side because he was 'SG inspired' for a week....!

Well, you are free to do so. Be my guest!

You must be registered to see the links

 

[RNasc4444]

I'm not following closely anymore. But I think ocean really represents the best and worst of this niche. An aspiring artist who creates a vision people love, while striving to improve their skills. only to sell out, and betray the vision they sold people on to begin with. It's totally understandable, and predictable, but just sucks. my hope for these games is that they get finished, and someone just deletes the scripts (simply put) and replaces them with something closer to the original narrative (restoring the original dynamics). And I get why he sold out, we live in a world where money matters. But it's killed my interest in what he makes. I'm more interested in what others might make from what he makes.

Precisely how I feel on the matter. How I've felt for years, really.

He could have had an amazing story but sadly kowtowing to payment processors and music license holders killed that. Like you said, I understand why he did it but it still sucks. Shit's never gonna be the same again and I'll have to settle for (what I personally perceive as) mediocrity.

 

[Maviarab]

Well, you are free to do so. Be my guest!

You must be registered to see the links

I don't fancy being banned from his Discord server thanks, nor having a thousand moronic, rabid fanboys coming after me with pitchforks and flaming torches, however:

Please don't keep saying something like it's fact...when Ocean very much doesn't see it that way and in fact, does the very opposite of it. If what I quoted of you...was actually true, he wouldnt be doing what he is doing and getting his second game on Steam would be the single, numero uno...only focus of his. The facts I'm sorry to say, don't support your words (even less so given he has none of the 'issues' of getting this on Steam that he had with SG...they just don't exist).

I say all that with this being (for now at least) my favourite VN and as a past supporter.

 

[Mortarion]

I don't fancy being banned from his Discord server thanks, nor having a thousand moronic, rabid fanboys coming after me with pitchforks and flaming torches, however:

Never seen someone that got there banned for telling the truth or being critical. If you keep it polite and in a constructive manner.

Please don't keep saying something like it's fact...when Ocean very much doesn't see it that way and in fact, does the very opposite of it. If what I quoted of you...was actually true, he wouldnt be doing what he is doing and getting his second game on Steam would be the single, numero uno...only focus of his. The facts I'm sorry to say, don't support your words (even less so given he has none of the 'issues' of getting this on Steam that he had with SG...they just don't exist).

I say all that with this being (for now at least) my favourite VN and as a past supporter.

Well, I have no reason to lie. And I'm also unlucky about the time both games need to be released - and I have never keep this dissatisfaction secret in the past.

And about the sole focus on WIAB:

You have to consider that

You must be registered to see the links

has way more support then his

You must be registered to see the links

game, despite older, ever had- if you like/accept it or not.
It's even less after the moronic shutdown of the WIAB patreon.
The only way to support WIAB is now only through SS, and this is for many ppl out there not a option. Ocean has way less paid members on SS than on Patreon. Keep in mind that not all supporters are there for WIAB, some users - like me - are here for both games.



The only options for the only WIAB fanbase is to deal with it and wait or move away.

And it is really likely that the SG supporters are going rampage if Ocean announces that the would spend, let's say, a complete month only for the development of WIAB. Pause the charge for SG patreon is also no option. Both cases are financial suicide.

 

[yossa999]

Precisely how I feel on the matter. How I've felt for years, really.

He could have had an amazing story but sadly kowtowing to payment processors and music license holders killed that. Like you said, I understand why he did it but it still sucks. Shit's never gonna be the same again and I'll have to settle for (what I personally perceive as) mediocrity.

The amazing story of Marla with a gun, a completely sociopathic idiot MC, dolphin rapists, "And there's what I was planning. The FSK 18 kind of darkness. Psychological corruption/Submission, violence, intimidation, etc."

Thank's fuck for this. I've seen similar "amazing stories" here, they reek of rape, violence, blackmail, gore and other shit that [kink shaming is not allowed] some users value so much. I'm glad Ocean removed this shit from the game, even if it was purely due to pressure from content distribution platforms.

EDIT: And then comes the understanding that you did not switch tabs in the browser and this is WiAB thread and not SG. What the hell, Ocean should not make two games at the same time, you see what this leads to!

Back to the topic, but in the context of WiAB, agree with every point! The story used to be better, now it's worse, mediocre mediocricy, I completely agree with you guys. Since by and large I don't care about the prequel of the main game.

 

[RNasc4444]

The amazing story of Marla with a gun, a completely sociopathic idiot MC, dolphin rapists, "And there's what I was planning. The FSK 18 kind of darkness. Psychological corruption/Submission, violence, intimidation, etc."

Thank's fuck for this. I've seen similar "amazing stories" here, they reek of rape, violence, blackmail, gore and other shit that [kink shaming is not allowed] some users value so much. I'm glad Ocean removed this shit from the game, even if it was purely due to pressure from content distribution platforms.

We both know you are exaggerating. You have been reading my posts long enough to know that I always mean the story that preceded the remakes. I mean the story from ch2.5 and ch3.0. Ocean was already fully in charge by that point and he was headed in a very clear direction that isn't quite as dark and dramatic as you are presenting before sanitizing the ever loving fuck out of both games.

I know you like the changes introduced by the remakes. And you know I hate that he turned SG into a bland teen drama novel. And I actually like vanilla shit. For the love of God I praise MrDots's games! Melody is still one of my faves! Chasing Sunsets is another one I used to love. I'll take vanilla over dark themed games any fucking day. And even I get a little turned off by what SG has become. Because I know it could have been so much better.

The fact that Ocean is still doing well is validation for your opinion. It's proof that he did the right thing for himself. That won't stop some users like me from mourning what was lost.

EDIT: No argument from me if the mods decide to delete this post since this is the WiAB thread. In my opinion both games overlap enough and share issues to a point it becomes valid to discuss some things from one in the other one's thread. But if any of the mods disagree, please be my guest.

 

[yossa999]

We both know you are exaggerating. You have been reading my posts long enough to know that I always mean the story that preceded the remakes. I mean the story from ch2.5 and ch3.0. Ocean was already fully in charge by that point and he was headed in a very clear direction that isn't quite as dark and dramatic as you are presenting before sanitizing the ever loving fuck out of both games.

I know you like the changes introduced by the remakes. And you know I hate that he turned SG into a bland teen drama novel. And I actually like vanilla shit. For the love of God I praise MrDots's games! Melody is still one of my faves! Chasing Sunsets is another one I used to love. I'll take vanilla over dark themed games any fucking day. And even I get a little turned off by what SG has become. Because I know it could have been so much better.

The fact that Ocean is still doing well is validation for your opinion. It's proof that he did the right thing for himself. That won't stop some users like me from mourning what was lost.

Oh, it was about SG? Than, please unread everything in my post after the "EDIT"

If your mourning wasn't due to the cancellation of the dark path, I understand your reasons to mourn. However, we both know why these changes were made and what the outcome was on Steam. The only difference is in our assessment of the impact of these changes on the story. For me, these changes simply unporned the S1 a little bit more, without affecting the main plot at all. And since it was never intended to be a porno story, that's not a problem for me. For you, it seems like a big deal. Well, if the next update makes SG adult again, I wonder if the prudishness of the first intro season will still remain such a big deal.

So what about WiAB. Does it R-U-I-N-E-D?

 

[RNasc4444]

Oh, it was about SG? Than, please unread everything in my post after the "EDIT"

If your mourning wasn't due to the cancellation of the dark path, I understand your reasons to mourn. However, we both know why these changes were made and what the outcome was on Steam. The only difference is in our assessment of the impact of these changes on the story. For me, these changes simply unporned the S1 a little bit more, without affecting the main plot at all. And since it was never intended to be a porno story, that's not a problem for me. For you, it seems like a big deal. Well, if the next update makes SG adult again, I wonder if the prudishness of the first intro season will still remain such a big deal.

So what about WiAB. Does it R-U-I-N-E-D?

Actually no. I think the rework improved WiAB. But I only played the old WiAB once and barely remember it so take it with a grain of salt.

Also you won't see me bitch too hard about WiAB. I still consider it "homework" for SG

I have little hope for its future given the changes that are about to be introduced but as it stands I think it's a far better game than SG in all regards. And I'm not just saying this to give Maviarab a W

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I still consider it "homework" for SG

 

[yossa999]

Actually no. I think the rework improved WiAB. But I only played the old WiAB once and barely remember it so take it with a grain of salt.

Also you won't see me bitch too hard about WiAB. I still consider it "homework" for SG

I have little hope for it's future given the changes that are about to be introduced but as it stands I think it's a far better game than SG in all regards. And I'm not just saying this to give Maviarab a W

I've played the old version of WiAB more than once, and I don't see how that disjointed set of scenes is any better than the remastered version, which at least flows as a coherent story (the visuals aside).
And I'm not just saying this to pull Maviarab's leg (I guess WiABsters have been suffering enough)

 

[Maviarab]

I have little hope for it's future given the changes that are about to be introduced but as it stands I think it's a far better game than SG in all regards. And I'm not just saying this to give @Maviarab a W

 

[John972]

Okay, let's make a comparison.

Who looks better:

Inbreed MCretarded:
View attachment 4220420
OR
Willian “I am supposedly the father of half of the SG cast” zane:
View attachment 4220433

Who looks more realistic?

Average looking dude

OR

Chippendale beefcake & underwear model

 

[Ray_D]

Who looks more realistic?

Average looking dude

OR

Chippendale beefcake & underwear model

What the fuck were you waiting for, most AVN MC are average compared to William.

 

[LHDLLB]

Who looks more realistic?

Average looking dude

OR

Chippendale beefcake & underwear model

While I like William a lot he definitely needs some time to grow on you, his designs at times don't look real. I do like it, but it took a while. Nika is much better in my opinion, even with his anime hair.

 

[John972]

While I like William a lot he definitely needs some time to grow on you, his designs at times don't look real. I do like it, but it took a while. Nika is much better in my opinion, even with his anime hair.

A thing that grates me is when you see variations of the same 3D model used in multiple AVNs. William's 3D model reminds me of the MC from LoF and the MC of Artemis (to name but two). At least the average looking dude seems unique.

Having said that, I think William's 3D model and appearance fit his character well, and Ocean plays to the beefcake look (William turning jealous dudes' heads at the gym)..

 

[John972]

Precisely how I feel on the matter. How I've felt for years, really.

He could have had an amazing story but sadly kowtowing to payment processors and music license holders killed that. Like you said, I understand why he did it but it still sucks. Shit's never gonna be the same again and I'll have to settle for (what I personally perceive as) mediocrity.

I think it became clear with the start of the Patreon clampdowns (which predated WIAB's Patreon demise) that Ocean faced a choice of making things somewhat vanilla in WIAB or risking losing the income streams on his investment. He's already been "bitten" twice, so I cannot fault him for taking steps to safeguard his investment, even if that means he cannot deliver the product he originally intended.

I recall having a back-and-forth in this thread several months ago with someone who seemed to think the likes of SS and Steam would never ban or censor WIAB-like content because they don't do it now. Boy, that position could age like milk in the future, who knows? The point is that any Dev who creates certain themes and content cannot trust third-party service providers in the current environment.

I accepted long ago that I prefer to have new vanilla SG/WIAB content rather than the demise of the projects and no new content all all because Ocean's income streams were cut off by third-party service providers. It's a bitch (especially for WIAB, because certain themes and content create much of the drama) but it is what it is...

 

[BobTheDuck]

Who looks more realistic?

Average looking dude

OR

Chippendale beefcake & underwear model

Average looking dude looks remarkably average, extra medium with a side of ultra beige.

Chippendale beefcake & underwear model is a poser, completely in character.

I think it became clear with the start of the Patreon clampdowns (which predated WIAB's Patreon demise) that Ocean faced a choice of making things somewhat vanilla in WIAB or risking losing the income streams on his investment. He's already been "bitten" twice, so I cannot fault him for taking steps to safeguard his investment, even if that means he cannot deliver the product he originally intended.

I recall having a back-and-forth in this thread several months ago with someone who seemed to think the likes of SS and Steam would never ban or censor WIAB-like content because they don't do it now. Boy, that position could age like milk in the future, who knows? The point is that any Dev who creates certain themes and content cannot trust third-party service providers in the current environment.

I accepted long ago that I prefer to have new vanilla SG/WIAB content rather than the demise of the projects and no new content all all because Ocean's income streams were cut off by third-party service providers. It's a bitch (especially for WIAB, because certain themes and content create much of the drama) but it is what it is...

This is mostly my attitude. I'd rather have a dumbed down epic that is still cared for and still treated as a creative endeavour by its dev than have a dev give up in general. What Ocean does to protect his stories' futures he does because he's still got something he wants to keep telling. It would be easier for him to get a wage in IT or design at this point, his skills and assets could land him a decent job without dealing with pirates demands for more dark questionable segs with spicy chicken burgers.

Given that he's skilled enough to find a job as a subordinate earning well and not being responsible for the project's outcomes, it's a deliberate choice for him to keep his stories' universe alive. I don't know Ocean's personal goals, but it's got to be easier earning money as a vanilla employee - being able to explain you work for a mainstream dev would be so much simpler instead of telling people "what I do for a living isn't exactly porn despite the stigma, gosh don't be so narrow minded!" I can imagine there's a whole bunch of people in his life he keeps the details from. I'm glad he's persistent and enjoys his stories enough to keep independent.

Edit: almost forgot - there's always a chance that the vanilla version becomes more compelling than the original. What we have in our mind's eye is the potential we saw, not the actual delivery of an awesome product. We were (in both Ocean's games) captivated by the direction. But there can be other directions worth travelling, even if they're not the same. As long as Ocean keeps trying to make a compelling story, I'll keep watching this space. Even with the inconsistencies, it's much better a plot than "man has donkey dick and fell into 20 vaginas while going for coffee" ...well that hasn't happened to me yet