VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

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BobTheDuck

BobTheDuck

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sorco2003

sorco2003

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BobTheDuck said:
Even if she is rich, she is so unpretentious in this version, I really like the way Ocean's developed her personality. The previous one, she seemed out of place on the camping trip.
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and yes, in the previous version everything seemed out of place because Ocean was doing what he wanted, even broke the story several times just to try (and the last time to move to the rework).
And this eliminated the story of Emily, who is coming back but with the background that William and Leia bullied her for being fat (or something like that I had read in discord).
 
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LHDLLB

LHDLLB

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Zeniks1895 said:
If she's a virgin then what she said to Katie doesn't make her a hypocrite. Leia knows she's good looking plus she's self-confident enough to think she can seduce anyone. She just doesn't need to since she's only interested in our protagonist. She sees her female employees as useful tools to achieve her goals and uses them accordingly, I don't understand how this makes her a hypocrite. However, if she is not a virgin then her attitude towards William is really quite hypocritical. Actually the fact that she wasn't a virgin in the previous version is quite strange and illogical, given all her obsession with the protagonist. I could totally understand if Katie already had some experience but in Leia's case it's weird and doesn't fit her character. I hope that in the new version Ocean will correct this unfortunate misunderstanding.
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I don't really see how she can be hypocrite in either scenario, the first you already made a great point. the second, William left with out saying goodbye and with out much of a reason, I don't see how would be hypocritical of her to had sex or casual relationship with other mens int he years that William was away. I don't think that she needs to be or not a virgin, this depends on what direction Ocean wants her character to go, but it certainly does not make her a hypocrite.

Zeniks1895 said:
It was illogical (given that she has a girlfriend and that we ourselves saw some worm hit on her in the bar), unfair and humiliating, but not hypocritical. We will still have the opportunity to fix the relationship between them(at least that was the case in the previous version). In addition, I believe we will have the opportunity to change Leia's behavior for the better (for example, in the last chapter we can tell her to be nicer to Monica, that's a start). In general I agree with you, at this point in time her behaviour is unacceptable.
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Regarding Leia's behavior, I think that's a lot to unpack there and we certainly does not have enough information to do so.

But the fun is trying to understanding. I think that is valuable exercise to trying to understand how much of Leia's behavior is a response to William's. It is difficult to understand the timeline, but we know that at some point William and Leia had a relationship and we also know that young William was not the best William.

I don't believe that William gave Leia the kind of securance that he now gives Miru, that combine with the jealousy nature of Leia created many problems for them. So William had girls trowing themselves at him and Leia had no confidence in him that he could resist, so she in turn was hostile to anyone that showed interest in him.
 
BobTheDuck

BobTheDuck

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Maviarab said:
No...we don't...we assume they did 'something'....or that something happened...
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Well, they had a monthiverasry of going out, but we don't know if they had a physical relationship. The way Katie mentioned him trying to get under Leia's skirts implies he didn't manage. Most likely Katie wouldn't be trying to tease him about it if it had happened.
 
Maviarab

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BobTheDuck said:
Well, they had a monthiverasry of going out, but we don't know if they had a physical relationship. The way Katie mentioned him trying to get under Leia's skirts implies he didn't manage. Most likely Katie wouldn't be trying to tease him about it if it had happened.
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Well..in Leia's obsessed and yandere mind they had a monthiversary...lol.

Code: 
l "You know what's in two days?"
    scene wa34 with dssa
    d "Meatball Friday?"
    scene wa20 with dssr
    l "No! Idiot!"
    l "Our first monthiversary."
    d "That's not a thing."
    scene wa21 with dssr
    l "It's now."
Not entirely sure Willi had one...but Leia definitely did :ROFLMAO: Given what she is like...who knows what that actually could have been for...
 
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LHDLLB

LHDLLB

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Maviarab said:
Well..in Leia's obsessed and yandere mind they had a monthiversary...lol.

Code: 
l "You know what's in two days?"
    scene wa34 with dssa
    d "Meatball Friday?"
    scene wa20 with dssr
    l "No! Idiot!"
    l "Our first monthiversary."
    d "That's not a thing."
    scene wa21 with dssr
    l "It's now."
Not entirely sure Willi had one...but Leia definitely did :ROFLMAO: Given what she is like...who knows what that actually could have been for...
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I was in fact referring to the mounthiversary, true is not explicit, but I had said that the implication is that is a celebration of one mounth of whatever it was they had.

But your point about, Leia did but William was kinda whatever is my point. Whatever they had when they are younger, Leia was way more invested in it than him and this imbalance explain much of her behavior not only then but now also.
 
Maviarab

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LHDLLB said:
I was in fact referring to the mounthiversary, true is not explicit, but I had said that the implication is that is a celebration of one mounth of whatever it was they had.

But your point about, Leia did but William was kinda whatever is my point. Whatever they had when they are younger, Leia was way more invested in it than him and this imbalance explain much of her behavior not only then but now also.
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No, what you said was 'we know they had a relationship'.....

We don't know that at all. Not in the rework at least.
 
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BobTheDuck

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LHDLLB said:
I was in fact referring to the mounthiversary, true is not explicit, but I had said that the implication is that is a celebration of one mounth of whatever it was they had.

But your point about, Leia did but William was kinda whatever is my point. Whatever they had when they are younger, Leia was way more invested in it than him and this imbalance explain much of her behavior not only then but now also.
Click to expand...
Maviarab said:
No, what you said was 'we know they had a relationship'.....

We don't know that at all. Not in the rework at least.
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We don't know that the flashback wasn't right before Willi left. The tree he carved (presumably) the heart from to make a gift when he was young (his 'something that came from the heart') was one of the first things he looked at when he got back. He then carves another heart to remind Leia of the first carved heart, maybe the chance to rewind the clock to when things were innocent.

I wouldn't expect the monthiversary happened before he was going out with Mon; that would mean they had the innocent thing, thenhe broke up with Leia to go after Mon, then left Mon on the table because he knew he wanted Leia. Much too complicated a back story. So if the Monthiversary is after he's broken up with Mon, it's right before he leaves presumably.

In that flashback though, he's ridiculously immature which suggests they're younger. I can't imagine he'd say "I'd like the new Monster Basher Brutal 3000 for console!" after being able to creampie Mon. Pretty sure he wouldn't be talking like that.

So it's all purposefully vague and uncertain, other than it meant way more to Leia then it did to Willi then.
 
Zeniks1895

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LHDLLB said:
I don't really see how she can be hypocrite in either scenario, the first you already made a great point. the second, William left with out saying goodbye and with out much of a reason, I don't see how would be hypocritical of her to had sex or casual relationship with other mens int he years that William was away. I don't think that she needs to be or not a virgin, this depends on what direction Ocean wants her character to go, but it certainly does not make her a hypocrite.
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If you'd read the user post I was commenting on you'd understand why I think she's a hypocrite if she's not a virgin. Here it is:
BobTheDuck said:
I had a thought about this. Leia is characterised by jealousy when it comes to Willi; I wonder how far her hypocrisy goes? If she kept herself a virgin, she's a hypocrite for saying that Katie couldn't seduce anyone, and doubly so for the way she pimps out her employees. If she's not, then her treatment of Willi's disappearance is hypocrisy because she has also abandoned him. She can't keep accussing him of having left if she'd moved on, and if she hasn't moved on, well Katie's had more recent relationships than Leia, especially considering she'd bi. I think this is why I dislike her - Leia has a massive double standard either way in order to defend her version of the story, so she can be the victim and the only right person. Willi does admit he did wrong on many occasions and is trying to grow, so I'm much more sympathetic to a jerk trying to reform himself than someone who gets people to call her princess.
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Her virginity may not be important to you, but in my opinion if she slept with someone while just being obsessed with our protagonist it does not fit her character. Take Dana (the old version) for example. She was interested in the protagonist but after she received a rejection (false) and our protagonist ran away, she continued to live her life and at the time of their reunion she already has a boyfriend. There is nothing contradictory here and in her case as in the case of any other character who was acquainted with our protagonist I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that they continued to live their lives after his escape and had a relationship. Leia, however, is a special case.
 
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BobTheDuck

BobTheDuck

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Zeniks1895 said:
If you'd read the user post I was commenting on you'd understand why I think she's a hypocrite if she's not a virgin. Here it is:

Her virginity may not be important to you, but in my opinion if she slept with someone while just being obsessed with our protagonist it does not fit her character. Take Dana (the old version) for example. She was interested in the protagonist but after she received a rejection (false) and our protagonist ran away, she continued to live her life and at the time of their reunion she already has a boyfriend. There is nothing contradictory here and in her case as in the case of any other character who was acquainted with our protagonist I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that they continued to live their lives after his escape and had a relationship. Leia, however, is a special case.
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I think it's likely she's a virgin, because of her obsession going that deep. She's called a princess for a reason, not a queen (although maybe just the Princess Leia thing for the buns... or is it puns? :sneaky:) That's why I consider the way she treats Katie and her workers as reprehensible. Also the fact she wants to get Willi to seduce Mon for info.

At this point it doesn't really matter, her actions and treatment of the people around her show she is reprehensible. THe girls are told not to make eye contact by Emilio - it's not only Willi she treats like shit.

I'm sure we'll find out when we hear what she and Willi talk about from his visit to her house.
 
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4.00 star(s) 237 Votes