VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[Versace217]

On one side I understand that because of Patreon's TOS, Ocean needs to change the relationships but on the other hand, I enjoyed WIAB "because" it had incest and other familial relationships in it. Changing it now just removes the major flavor it has because it changes the dynamics of not just the immediate family but also the extended family.

It would beg the question why the other family members are so invested in this. As the MC was directly related to the family, it made sense because he was a part of them, but now it will just feel artificial and forced. Even the whole step-dad/son interaction will now feel awkward at best.

I think a solution to the Patreon's stupid TOS is to make the relationships generic (Landlord, etc), then implement a trigger (like asking what you would like the relationship to be) which would automatically change the relationships of everyone. I believe that is one loophole that devs can use to avoid the TOS under the pretext having of generic relationships.

 

[Maviarab]

On one side I understand that because of Patreon's TOS, Ocean needs to change the relationships

This isn't on Patreon anymore (has not been for weeks now) and Steam doesn't care either way about the subject....but even if all that was true and relevant, why keep Leia as his sister?

 

[Zeniks1895]

This isn't on Patreon anymore (has not been for weeks now) and Steam doesn't care either way about the subject....but even if all that was true and relevant, why keep Leia as his sister?

This is all very strange. Who are these changes aimed at? On the one hand those people who play the non-patched version won't like it since Leia is now a sister and the rest of the “non-family” is now adopted family, which in the eyes of such people is still incest. On the other hand those people who play the patched version will not like it because instead of a normal family we now have a stepadoptedlandlady bullshit. Unfortunately Ocean didn't bother to clarify what was behind his controversial decision in his dev log.

 

[Maviarab]

This is all very strange. Who are these changes aimed at? On the one hand those people who play the non-patched version won't like it since Leia is now a sister and the rest of the “non-family” is now adopted family, which in the eyes of such people is still incest. On the other hand those people who play the patched version will not like it because instead of a normal family we now have a stepadoptedlandlady bullshit. Unfortunately Ocean didn't bother to clarify what was behind his controversial decision in his dev log.

*shrugs*...right now, your guess is as good as anyone's.

 

[txe320]

This is all very strange. Who are these changes aimed at? On the one hand those people who play the non-patched version won't like it since Leia is now a sister and the rest of the “non-family” is now adopted family, which in the eyes of such people is still incest. On the other hand those people who play the patched version will not like it because instead of a normal family we now have a stepadoptedlandlady bullshit. Unfortunately Ocean didn't bother to clarify what was behind his controversial decision in his dev log.

Simply a guess, but right now I think he just have "another story" with the same people in mind for the game and that's why he's redoing it.

 

[LHDLLB]

This isn't on Patreon anymore (has not been for weeks now) and Steam doesn't care either way about the subject....but even if all that was true and relevant, why keep Leia as his sister?

If I Was to guess, probably because Leia storyline does not works otherwise. Helen, Katie, Kat Ocean believe works -better ?- as non-incetuous relationships.And later on if need be is a lot more easier to change only Leia script then the whole game. So far this is the reasoning that I arrived.

Unfortunately Ocean didn't bother to clarify what was behind his controversial decision in his dev log.

I think would be better have he explained a little more, maybe in another devlog, but in the end, if the patrons are satisfied he does not have a reason to.

Or maybe he just not want to spoiler more than alredy had and will let players diescover when chapther 4 is lauch

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

It said that it was last updated last week does anyone know what update that is?

Chapter 3 full was released since January right? Or was I misremembering?

The "thread" was updated, yes, either to remove dead links and add ones that work, or add a mod/guide/etc link, and so on.

Source?

All the incest, rape, blackmail and so on games that are on Steam? The same ones that are have gotten dev's banned on Patreon.

Again, Steam cares about underage content, content that says high school (circles back to point 1), bestiality, and copy righted work, like music/movie/posters in said game.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Why laugh emoji?

I'm not speaking for the people who reacted, but you've asked this in the middle of a heated debate about a major writing change to the story that the dev dropped on everyone unexpectedly. People that are laughing at you probably have decided the change is bad.

To answer your question, I find this to be the more insteresting of Ocean's two stories, but I like both more than I like 90% of the games on this site.

 

[John972]

Source?

I think people miss the point.

Just because Steam or any other third-party provider "doesn't care either way about the subject..." [of incest] now, doesn't mean it will stay that way in the future.

No one can predict what will happen, but lets see if the declarations about Steam age well or age like milk...

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

, why keep Leia as his sister?

'Cause they're twins?

Maybe a different family situation in WIAB will prevent complications in family related relationships in SG.
SG's still on pattreon!

Possible Willy/Leiah offspring may not be LIs in SG, while Will's other widely spread oats may well be.

I think Ocean is trying to keep SG ic free but WIAB's still open to interfamily coitus.

Find it hard to understand the different avenues some have in the arguments on difference between adopted/biological family ties.
The ones that fed and raised you from birth are, in my very honest opinion, no different from someone that raised, fed and wiped your behind from a very young age.
They're still mum and dad no matter what.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

'Cause they're twins?

Maybe a different family situation in WIAB will prevent complications in family related relationships in SG.
SG's still on pattreon!

Possible Willy/Leiah offspring may not be LIs in SG, while Will's other widely spread oats may well be.

I think Ocean is trying to keep SG ic free but WIAB's still open to interfamily coitus.

Find it hard to understand the different avenues some have in the arguments on difference between adopted/biological family ties.
The ones that fed and raised you from birth are, in my very honest opinion, no different from someone that raised, fed and wiped your behind from a very young age.
They're still mum and dad no matter what.

I agree with you on the reason, but on the other hand Ocean keep dancing to that tune.
Let's assume that Nika or Nami or both are William and Katie's offspring, this would also create problems for him.
Also still looking at SG the problem in the relationship between Nika and Nami makes no sense without an adoptive or blood bond (which the game refuses to mention)

 

[BobTheDuck]

I agree with you on the reason, but on the other hand Ocean keep dancing to that tune.
Let's assume that Nika or Nami or both are William and Katie's offspring, this would also create problems for him.
Also still looking at SG the problem in the relationship between Nika and Nami makes no sense without an adoptive or blood bond (which the game refuses to mention)

To some extent, we can't really speculate that far ahead. As some people have said, Daphne would be an excellent option for Nami's mom. For SG to be Patreon safe, Nika and Nami can't have the same parents at all, and Nika can't have relationships with any Willi sprogs. If Willi is Nika's father, then ANY child of Willi's becomes off access due to Patreon. But, with Willi and Leia twins, Nika would look like William if Leia was his mother, and has Leia's eyes more than Willi's. Cousins are usually frowned upon, but not treated the same. Complete speculation here. This would of course upset the people who believe that Leia and Willi are the power couple, and Leia shouldn't have children except by Willi though.

What we have that is valuable is an indication of clarity. The question of implementation might take years for us to find out through the story though. Secrets are far more compelling. Look at us right now trying to reason it out based on similarity of render models and eye colours ...we're simply trying to find an order because we currently don't have one, but it feels tantalisingly close to being revealed.

I'm going to try to think a little more short term, and focus on the plot for CH4 to find out if it's as enjoyable as I hope on release. Because that's the thing. Hopefully Ocean's surprises will be engaging rather than off-putting.

 

[Krytax123]

To some extent, we can't really speculate that far ahead. As some people have said, Daphne would be an excellent option for Nami's mom. For SG to be Patreon safe, Nika and Nami can't have the same parents at all, and Nika can't have relationships with any Willi sprogs. If Willi is Nika's father, then ANY child of Willi's becomes off access due to Patreon. But, with Willi and Leia twins, Nika would look like William if Leia was his mother, and has Leia's eyes more than Willi's. Cousins are usually frowned upon, but not treated the same. Complete speculation here. This would of course upset the people who believe that Leia and Willi are the power couple, and Leia shouldn't have children except by Willi though.

What we have that is valuable is an indication of clarity. The question of implementation might take years for us to find out through the story though. Secrets are far more compelling. Look at us right now trying to reason it out based on similarity of render models and eye colours ...we're simply trying to find an order because we currently don't have one, but it feels tantalisingly close to being revealed.

I'm going to try to think a little more short term, and focus on the plot for CH4 to find out if it's as enjoyable as I hope on release. Because that's the thing. Hopefully Ocean's surprises will be engaging rather than off-putting.

I think at this point the best solution would be for Nika to not be William's son. I would have prefered Nika to be a part of the Zane dynasty but i guess he can still become that through marriage when all LI's are kinda Zane's

Maybe .. i dunno .. William has a cool buddy during the story of wiab who kinda sacrifices himself for willy or a zane girl and thats why the Zane's keep having an interest in Nika and Willy could even still be the "uncle" (not blood related) who teached him basket ball as a close friend of his father.

But no clue why Nami would be with them in this case (if shes willy offspring), even in case Daphne died.

And anyway, i have to agree with Dr.TSoni the whole existence of the Nika/Nami situation in SG should speak against no incest at all in SG ... in theory ... who knows ..

On the bright side, it cant really get more confusing

 

[Dr.TSoni]

What we have that is valuable is an indication of clarity. The question of implementation might take years for us to find out through the story though. Secrets are far more compelling. Look at us right now trying to reason it out based on similarity of render models and eye colours ...we're simply trying to find an order because we currently don't have one, but it feels tantalisingly close to being revealed.

This is undeniably a favorite pastime of us fans XD

 

[BobTheDuck]

I think at this point the best solution would be for Nika to not be William's son. I would have prefered Nika to be a part of the Zane dynasty but i guess he can still become that through marriage when all LI's are kinda Zane's

Maybe .. i dunno .. William has a cool buddy during the story of wiab who kinda sacrifices himself for willy or a zane girl and thats why the Zane's keep having an interest in Nika and Willy could even still be the "uncle" (not blood related) who teached him basket ball as a close friend of his father.

But no clue why Nami would be with them in this case (if shes willy offspring), even in case Daphne died.

And anyway, i have to agree with Dr.TSoni the whole existence of the Nika/Nami situation in SG should speak against no incest at all in SG ... in theory ... who knows ..

On the bright side, it cant really get more confusing

THis was the same as my thought. I think people read a lot into young Willi in the pre rework being the same model as young Nika, and there's an obvious assumption there. There are at least 3 narratives I can think of that would fit, but I'm not writing it, and Ocean loves being obscure. What if Ocean decides that Nika's parentage will remain unknown through all of these two games? If it works for the story, why not? Insinuation can add extra spice to the dramas, and add complexities. The question is always going to be about how authentic the writing is. I mean, Ocean's a Star Wars fan, how long did it take for us to find out who Luke's dad was? Then how long until we found out who Leia's dad was?

 

[Krytax123]

THis was the same as my thought. I think people read a lot into young Willi in the pre rework being the same model as young Nika, and there's an obvious assumption there. There are at least 3 narratives I can think of that would fit, but I'm not writing it, and Ocean loves being obscure. What if Ocean decides that Nika's parentage will remain unknown through all of these two games? If it works for the story, why not? Insinuation can add extra spice to the dramas, and add complexities. The question is always going to be about how authentic the writing is. I mean, Ocean's a Star Wars fan, how long did it take for us to find out who Luke's dad was? Then how long until we found out who Leia's dad was?

I think its less about the models and more about the opportunity. Its rare to have two avns like that and avn's usually lack cool male characters so the logical "cool" solution would be for one MC to be the son of the one you played before and being part of the legacy "you" started to build in wiab again.

And imo wasting this is a missed opportunity. Nika just being the son of some rando unrelated to the wiab plot would be a huge disappointment and boring.

The only other option i would consider equally satisfying would be for Nika to be the son of the villain/antagonist in wiab who maybe got killed by William. But we would need a really cool wiab antagonist for that.

Just keeping Nika and Nami in a parentless limbo would be my least favored choice, could have just given him a real family in this case or at least memorys and picture of his parents and him remembering them and their teachings (for emotions, immersion and so on). But remembering stuff isnt Nika's strong suit anyway i guess

 

[Adhdclassic]

Don't know if they will make Nika Williams kid but they are similar. Both schemers and women love them. Feels like the same character different features and age.

 

[sorco2003]

Don't know if they will make Nika Williams kid but they are similar. Both schemers and women love them. Feels like the same character different features and age.

Yeah! Tremolo is his son too!!

 

[Dr.TSoni]

What if Ocean decides that Nika's parentage will remain unknown through all of these two games? If it works for the story, why not? Insinuation can add extra spice to the dramas, and add complexities.

I'm with Krytax on this point, the same rule applies as in the movies "if you show a gun you have to use it".

However, more than the models, the theory that the Zanes are interested in Nika&Nami is Katie's appearance in SG that creates more suspicions

 

[BenMeiffert]

Lot's of theories here... Do you guys are bored waiting for a new fifth version of this game ?
Maybe SG and Wiab are not related... and Ocean just don't like to use the same names in two different games.