VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[yossa999]

Because until now everything revolves around the Zane family dynamics.

So only Leia and William are related now.
Leia and William were in a relationship even though they were twins. This left unchanged.

Because of Katie's "blackmail", William ran away. This left unchanged. This makes it even more plausible that these bitches would target Katie, who is not only the youngest, but not even a biological sister.

Helen and Dyland don't know the situation well but they wonder where they went wrong as parents since their son didn't trust them and ran away. Okay, now they're foster parents. Should they not care about the kid who is under their care and whom they raised as their own? Their reaction seems natural to me.

Despite all these dramas William has returned because something happened to his mother. He ran away not because he didn't like his foster family or felt uncomfortable around them, but because he was afraid that being exposed would hurt everyone - both the adoptive parents and his twin sister. He wanted her to stay with them, because he believed that this would be best for her.

As usual, it's fear of imagined consequences, 9 out of 10 melodramas revolve around this trick. The character either doesn't say something that needs to be said for fear of judgment, or does or doesn't do something for the same reason. In the end, it turns out that his fears were not worth a damn, but became the cause of all the events shown in the film.

So what unique family dynamic is now lost that the game is completely R-U-I-N-E-D?

Under normal circumstances I would totally agree with you but... Ocean, Nika and Nami are a set back everything in their relationship and built to be a forbidden relationship a "game that can only end badly" and Ocean has never adjusted to make it a more plausible "it might ruin our friendship"

Um... "When Harry Met Sally", "Friends with Benefits" and hundreds of similar comedies and melodramas, aren't they all based on the fact that the characters avoid romantic relationships because "it might ruin our friendship". No matter that they always end up fucking like rabbits, they always feel awkward about it, like they're doing something forbidden.

 

[LHDLLB]

So only Leia and William are related now.
Leia and William were in a relationship even though they were twins. This left unchanged.

Because of Katie's "blackmail", William ran away. This left unchanged. This makes it even more plausible that these bitches would target Katie, who is not only the youngest, but not even a biological sister.

Helen and Dyland don't know the situation well but they wonder where they went wrong as parents since their son didn't trust them and ran away. Okay, now they're foster parents. Should they not care about the kid who is under their care and whom they raised as their own? Their reaction seems natural to me.

Despite all these dramas William has returned because something happened to his mother. He ran away not because he didn't like his foster family or felt uncomfortable around them, but because he was afraid that being exposed would hurt everyone - both the adoptive parents and his twin sister. He wanted her to stay with them, because he believed that this would be best for her.

As usual, it's fear of imagined consequences, 9 out of 10 melodramas revolve around this trick. The character either doesn't say something that needs to be said for fear of judgment, or does or doesn't do something for the same reason. In the end, it turns out that his fears were not worth a damn, but became the cause of all the events shown in the film.

So what unique family dynamic is now lost that the game is completely R-U-I-N-E-D?

Um... "When Harry Met Sally", "Friends with Benefits" and hundreds of similar comedies and melodramas, aren't they all based on the fact that the characters avoid romantic relationships because "it might ruin our friendship". No matter that they always end up fucking like rabbits, they always feel awkward about it, like they're doing something forbidden.

The family one. William is not related to anyone but Leia, by law or blood. We know that TOS does not discrimate if there is a "Step" before or not. Making William adopted changes nothing. William can't be related to Helen and fuck her, in any way.

Regarding Nika and Nami that would be fine. But the game does not threats it like we will ruin or friendship

 

[sorco2003]

I mean, I'm not criticizing but I really don't understand why the blood relationships are important for this story.

For example, there is a game where MC lived in a foster family when he was a teenager. He became very attached to them and considered them his family and thought he was as important to them as they were to him. But as soon as the wife managed to get pregnant (not from MC, damn perverts) and the foster couple began to preparing for the birth of their own child - they threw MC out of house into the cold without regret!

This event from the past became the basis for many problems and conflicts in MC's life. It explains why he can't build serious relationships in the present, why he is obsessed with the idea of reuniting with his possible relatives, although next to him are people who have been with him all his life, always treated him like family and whom he hurts with his neglect.

I can understand why it's important to a plot like this, but WiAB... The only purpose of their relationship is an incest fetish and nothing more. Well, bummer on you, uncle-daddies.

As for the explanation of the changes, this sounds like the simplest thing, to me. Although I am not a much of storyteller, but what prevents even me from coming up with any explanation after the fact.

Who said that Lord Zane isn't Zane now? Who stripped him of his title?

He's not blood-related to Helen Zane, so what? They took the twins from orphanage as their foster children and gave them their name. Maybe Willie and Leia don't even know who their real parents are or what their last name is. So they chose Zane with the consent of the foster family, that sounds better than Doe.

What a plot hole, my ass...

Obviously I don't agree at all, each one of us chooses the games to play based on features present in the stories that catch our attention. I don't see you playing WMV or Grandma house, because of their tags and distinctive elements those stories don't catch your attention. When many of us approached WIAB, a constituent element was the incest fetish, and to be more specific, since if anything this industry has specific niches, real incest, no step, no half, no foster.

The taboo element can be imitated, just as vegans try to simulate hamburgers, you may like them, yes, but they are not real hamburgers, it is a choice to believe that meat can be replaced by a similar element.

Now, you can appreciate the efforts the authors make to make their potato starch cheddar cheese as close to a good real cheddar as possible, what you can't do is try to convince me that it is the same thing.

Which brings me to the next point, if the game were to change, I will continue to play it with the memory of what it was, because that's just the way I am, I can't forget what it was. Just like nobody forgets the books, if they read them, when they see the movie adaptation.
Preferences lead us to games, games lead us to share experiences in the threads, experiences are all different.
For you it's all the same, and I respect that, for me it's not.
Does this mean that the game will become bad with the change (if there is a change) no! It means that some (few or many we can't say) will abandon it, and new ones will come which will arrive without prejudices because for them cheddar never existed, there is only “no cheddar potato starch”.

 

[sorco2003]

The family one. William is not related to anyone but Leia, by law or blood. We know that TOS does not discrimate if there is a "Step" before or not. Making William adopted changes nothing. William can't be related to Helen and fuck her, in any way.

Regarding Nika and Nami that would be fine. But the game does not threats it like we will ruin or friendship

This is more fun to debate. As we have been talking about since that log onwards, there is no ToS on Steam that forbids incest. So that's not where we should be looking for answers.
Many of us think it's about WIAB not leaving seeds in SG, since SG does have a prohibitive ToS.
In theory it only changed 15 lines of dialogue in the first 3 chapters. So, what changed was the ToS version, the one where everyone was clidhood friends or landlady and tennats.

 

[RNasc4444]

I mean, I'm not criticizing but I really don't understand why the blood relationships are important for this story.

I really don't know what to do with this statement. I don't understand why you keep thinking that players only care about this because of the incest angle. Is the concept of a familial relation bond that alien to you? Maybe we like to immerse ourselves in a story and world that seems authentic. Not dive into a porn logic filled novel.

I like to know who the characters are and where they came from. Backstory and lore adds to the experience. We had that prior to the coming changes. Now the flow was disrupted again. And I fear that he'll replace what we had with some moronic AVN trope. Imagine if his solution is to turn the Zane's into more of a clan instead of a family. How fucking retarded would that be?

They took the twins from orphanage as their foster children and gave them their name.

AHA! I knew it! You are a believer in the Adoption Theory too! I got you now!

But seriously, the reason why I abandoned that theory is that Katie will most likely remain an LI. Blood related or not, if they're adopted, the inquisition may still view them as family. Which can cause problems. Ocean nuked his stories to make sure they'd be bulletproof and safe from the Inquisition in the future. I doubt he would risk it going the adoption route.

 

[Adhdclassic]

I have said it before, and I will say it again change what you want. They family to me When do we get to fuck mom (Helen) want to see those titays bounce and that butt jiggle. Want to see Leias titays clap. Wanna see Katies hair while pounding the chocolate starfish. Scarletts face drenched in cum with her lil pornstar hat on. Katerina (who I think is Zaras mother) Deepthroated to the point cum comes out her nose and her mascara running. Zooey is on clean up duty no she's not family but I like her. Hell I'll throw Dylan a bone he pounds Miru from behind while jamming his fingers in mouth. Yea they family

 

[LHDLLB]

This is more fun to debate. As we have been talking about since that log onwards, there is no ToS on Steam that forbids incest. So that's not where we should be looking for answers.
Many of us think it's about WIAB not leaving seeds in SG, since SG does have a prohibitive ToS.
In theory it only changed 15 lines of dialogue in the first 3 chapters. So, what changed was the ToS version, the one where everyone was clidhood friends or landlady and tennats.

You Are not wrong. The thing is that we are not sure what the cause of change was. He gives two reason in the log and neither fully explains it. Make the story make sense for Steam - with Patreon gone this should not be a problem- and certain romances more natural - again should not really be a problem to a mostly(?) written story.

the only thing that fully makes sense is, once bitten twice as shy. He does not want risk it, SG future, or SS and Steam changing their TOS.I can respect and understand that. But I am still left to wonder how this will or can make sense. My bet is that we will get what we get in SG, something that you can take however you want. I don't love it but I don't see how William can be related to only Leia and the story making sense. Still there is the mater if Leia can be a LI.

 

[sorco2003]

You Are not wrong. The thing is that we are not sure what the cause of change was. He gives two reason in the log and neither fully explains it. Make the story make sense for Steam - with Patreon gone this should not be a problem- and certain romances more natural - again should not really be a problem to a mostly(?) written story.

the only thing that fully makes sense is, once bitten twice as shy. He does not want risk it, SG future, or SS and Steam changing their TOS.I can respect and understand that. But I am still left to wonder how this will or can make sense. My bet is that we will get what we get in SG, something that you can take however you want. I don't love it but I don't see how William can be related to only Leia and the story making sense. Still there is the mater if Leia can be a LI.

The difficulty lies in the fact that no developer can officially talk about it as long as he has an active patreon. So any constructive debate must come from the game itself. That's why when we talk about it, I expect a lot (very unrealistic of me, I know) from chapter 4.

 

[LHDLLB]

The difficulty lies in the fact that no developer can officially talk about it as long as he has an active patreon. So any constructive debate must come from the game itself. That's why when we talk about it, I expect a lot (very unrealistic of me, I know) from chapter 4.

The end discussion is always the same. Chapter 4. I ain't thinking it will be this cleaner of fog we are hoping for but we will see.

 

[yossa999]

The family one. William is not related to anyone but Leia, by law or blood. We know that TOS does not discrimate if there is a "Step" before or not. Making William adopted changes nothing. William can't be related to Helen and fuck her, in any way.

Regarding Nika and Nami that would be fine. But the game does not threats it like we will ruin or friendship

As I understand it, foster family is not the same as adoptive family. They legally provide a home, food, and care for children, but they are not legal relatives. At least that's what I understand from what people have told me. Or maybe it's more accurate to call it guardianship, I won't push it. The key for me is that the children do not become related to their guardians.

 

[LHDLLB]

As I understand it, foster family is not the same as adoptive family. They legally provide a home, food, and care for children, but they are not legal relatives. At least that's what I understand from what people have told me. Or maybe it's more accurate to call it guardianship, I won't push it. The key for me is that the children do not become related to their guardians.

I guess this could work, but at this point why even try ? Like, is just semantic, no see she is his guardian not his step mother or mother or whatever so it is fine. It ain't fooling anyone. Just makes things more weird.

 

[yossa999]

Obviously I don't agree at all, each one of us chooses the games to play based on features present in the stories that catch our attention. I don't see you playing WMV or Grandma house, because of their tags and distinctive elements those stories don't catch your attention.

Little do you know about me. Maybe I'm a WMV pro, maybe I'm just embarrassed to tell you guys, and I don't want to hear DD's grumbling about me ignoring PP but playing THIS.

When many of us approached WIAB, a constituent element was the incest fetish, and to be more specific, since if anything this industry has specific niches, real incest, no step, no half, no foster.
The taboo element can be imitated, just as vegans try to simulate hamburgers, you may like them, yes, but they are not real hamburgers, it is a choice to believe that meat can be replaced by a similar element.

Just what I said, in this game you only need family relationships because of a certain fetish, that's their purpose here.

Now, you can appreciate the efforts the authors make to make their potato starch cheddar cheese as close to a good real cheddar as possible, what you can't do is try to convince me that it is the same thing.

Which brings me to the next point, if the game were to change, I will continue to play it with the memory of what it was, because that's just the way I am, I can't forget what it was. Just like nobody forgets the books, if they read them, when they see the movie adaptation.
Preferences lead us to games, games lead us to share experiences in the threads, experiences are all different.
For you it's all the same, and I respect that, for me it's not.
Does this mean that the game will become bad with the change (if there is a change) no! It means that some (few or many we can't say) will abandon it, and new ones will come which will arrive without prejudices because for them cheddar never existed, there is only “no cheddar potato starch”.

Never argued with that, as if I don't know the hardcore WiABsters.

But jokes aside, I'm arguing with the "unique family dynamic" that supposedly made this game so special. It's not like that, what was removed is the i-fetish (and not completely judging by the logs). The rest is the same. Helen still loves her boy. Katie still feels hurt by the bullying she experienced from people who were supposed to be her best friends.

But my words don't mean that those who liked the game mainly because of that fetish are wrong or that their opinion is somehow any less. It's like adding NTR to a game that wasn't supposed to have it - it's clear that some of the audience will find it a showstopper. Just call a spade a spade, instead of the fucking "unique family dynamic..."

 

[LHDLLB]

Little do you know about me. Maybe I'm a WMV pro, maybe I'm just embarrassed to tell you guys, and I don't want to hear DD's grumbling about me ignoring PP but playing THIS.

Just what I said, in this game you only need family relationships because of a certain fetish, that's their purpose here.

Never argued with that, as if I don't know the hardcore WiABsters.

But jokes aside, I'm arguing with the "unique family dynamic" that supposedly made this game so special. It's not like that, what was removed is the i-fetish (and not completely judging by the logs). The rest is the same. Helen still loves her boy. Katie still feels hurt by the bullying she experienced from people who were supposed to be her best friends.

But my words don't mean that those who liked the game mainly because of that fetish are wrong or that their opinion is somehow any less. It's like adding NTR to a game that wasn't supposed to have it - it's clear that some of the audience will find it a showstopper. Just call a spade a spade, instead of the fucking "unique family dynamic..."

The family relations are not at all just a fetishes. Why on God"s green earth would Helen or Dylan be so devastated that their 16 years old best friend leave town ? Why Katie continued to hang around and seek validation from William and Leia if they are just kids ? Why everyone acuses William to be favoreted by Helen? Sure, fetishes is a element and I fully agree with Socroo but to say that it only existis as a fetishe is not true.

 

[yossa999]

I really don't know what to do with this statement. I don't understand why you keep thinking that players only care about this because of the incest angle. Is the concept of a familial relation bond that alien to you? Maybe we like to immerse ourselves in a story and world that seems authentic. Not dive into a porn logic filled novel.

Oh boy, here we go again...
Counter question, are you familiar with the concept of human relationships? Well, love, caring for each other, compassion, affection, these kind of things. Are these things only possible if you are related by blood?

Sayings like "Family is who loves you, who takes care of you", "Family isn't always blood. It's the people in your life who want you in theirs; the ones who accept you for who you are" and such, what do you think, are they coming from someone's experience, do they mean it? Or is this just a variation of Jason Statham's fake quotes or AI generated chatter?

Why do you think that family relationships are only possible between blood relatives? Are there not enough examples of children being taken away from complete bastard parents who only do booze or use drugs and beat up children?

Have you ever heard of famous people, such as actors or pop stars, who publicly express their gratitude to their foster parents for being their real family and for allowing them to achieve everything they have in life? You think they all are just playing? It's like a fake charity? I mentioned famous people only because it's easy to find information about them, but this is not an exclusive feature of public persons, believe me.

I like to know who the characters are and where they came from. Backstory and lore adds to the experience. We had that prior to the coming changes. Now the flow was disrupted again. And I fear that he'll replace what we had with some moronic AVN trope. Imagine if his solution is to turn the Zane's into more of a clan instead of a family. How fucking retarded would that be?

Duncan McLeod of the Clan McLeod, please...
If you don't want to see the intermediate changes, wait until the game is finished.
But really, I dunno how else you can cope with that. Only if... You know, the other games... No, it's stupid.

Anyway, isn't this the backstory and lore: Lord Zane is a member of the famous Wollust crime clan Zane. Being a teenager, he ran away from home due to a taboo incident, and now returns to help his clan in times of need. You know, I like it more and more. Or should we call it Cartel instead of Clan?

Haven't I already told you about Corleone and Tom Hagen?

AHA! I knew it! You are a believer in the Adoption Theory too! I got you now!

Why not. The only thing left to do is resolve the issue with Leia's boobs, she seems to say that she got them from Helen.

But seriously, the reason why I abandoned that theory is that Katie will most likely remain an LI. Blood related or not, if they're adopted, the inquisition may still view them as family. Which can cause problems. Ocean nuked his stories to make sure they'd be bulletproof and safe from the Inquisition in the future. I doubt he would risk it going the adoption route.

Yeah, I think all these arguments are pointless until a new update comes out and we see what he has really changed.

 

[Maviarab]

Maybe I'm a WMV pro, maybe I'm just embarrassed to tell you guys

Also, because I'm a pedantic sob...and see it's misuse in so many threads on this site:

Kink/fetish.
1. William enjoying being choked while Helen pegs him...that's a kink.
2. William 'needing' to be choked while being pegged by helen to get enjoyment out of it...that's a fetish.

 

[yossa999]

The family relations are not at all just a fetishes. Why on God"s green earth would Helen or Dylan be so devastated that their 16 years old best friend leave town ? Why Katie continued to hang around and seek validation from William and Leia if they are just kids ? Why everyone acuses William to be favoreted by Helen? Sure, fetishes is a element and I fully agree with Socroo but to say that it only existis as a fetishe is not true.

Because they had lived together for about ten years? Because Helen and Dylan had taken care of the twins every day for all those years? Because they were like siblings to Katie, even if they weren't blood related? Because Willie was actually Helen's favorite?

All this has not gone away and is possible without blood relationship. But what is impossible without blood relationship is incest.

 

[LHDLLB]

Because they had lived together for about ten years? Because Helen and Dylan had taken care of the twins every day for all those years? Because they were like siblings to Katie, even if they weren't blood related? Because Willie was actually Helen's favorite?

All this has not gone away and is possible without blood relationship. But what is impossible without blood relationship is incest.

All this is possible with out boold relations, yes. All of this is not possible if all they only were good old friends. A family relationships is fundamental to the story. Not only as a kinky. That is my point. Can be blood, guardship or a adoptive, a family dynamic is needded. Otherwise this things are almost impossible to explain. Excepet that Ocean all but confimed that there won't be any family relations.

 

[sorco2003]

Also, because I'm a pedantic sob...and see it's misuse in so many threads on this site:

Kink/fetish.
1. William enjoying being choked while Helen pegs him...that's a kink.
2. William 'needing' to be choked while being pegged by helen to get enjoyment out of it...that's a fetish.

I got it! you have a fetish, you need to correct the misused term.
I have a kink, i enjoy the misused!

 

[Maviarab]

I got it! you have a fetish, you need to correct the misused term.
I have a kink, i enjoy the misused!

Well..I've been around the 'scene' for almost 30 years, so it staggers me how many people get it wrong, especially those within the community so yeah, I do have a fetish over correcting people (and educating folk) about kink.

 

[SamualHand]

Is there a virgin patch for the game, to make every character a virgin?