VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

The frames of reference are:

1. "Gigachad" was 16 when he left.

2. He was framed a little under a month after he left.

3. The amount of time "Gigachad" spent in remand awaiting trial and then sentencing isn't stated.

4. "Gigachad" spent two years in Monte Ardente prison.

5. When "Gigachad" was released from prison, Miru already had a boyfriend. How long Miru stayed with this boyfriend before hooking up with "Gigachad" isn't stated.

6. Miru states in the present that she's been with "Gigachad" for "five years, three months and eleven days."

3. & 5. make calculating the exact amount of time since "Gigachad" absconded impossible. Added to that, "Gigachad's" current age is never stated.

If, for example, 3. and 5. total, say, 12 months, then he was away from Wollust for roughly 8.5 years.

Besides, "Gigachad's" relationship with Leia was NOT the reason why he left Wollust at age 16. If "Gigachad" and Leia did "something," it could've happened some time before he left, not immediately before. PS - I know many of us thought Leia was directly the reason why "Gigachad" left Wollust, but the real reason was set up in the original Chs 1-3, not just in the reworked Chs 1-4. It's likely only the minutiae behind the reason was altered.

I know it's been answered, but keep in mind Dana was in Willi's class. She finished secondary, started university, got a law degree and has risen through the ranks. Mon was also there, and Mon went through college, then entered the police force, now has a career. Leia Has had time to go through therapy , take over Joes businesses and run them well enough that she's wone the loyalty of everyone calling her 'Princess' so Joe's been in Prison a while, and I doubt they let an 18 year old run a bar with glory holes straight up. Those kind of details (Dana's in particular) give us a good window, she has to have been out of uni and in her job long enough to be at the buying expensive rum and cigars stage.

Disingenuous much? You must have already forgotten the general opinion on this thread the past few days

Well my notifications tab didn't forget. Like I've said in a previous post, it hasn't been nearly enough time to start the revisionism about this latest update. Wait a few months at least

It's ok that people overall didn't enjoy this direction here. It's ok to be in the minority. You don't have to be butthurt about it like a little bitch.

So 96 positive reviews on steam, 12 negative. Seems the people buying the game enjoy it more. Because correlation equals causation, right? Not suggesting the reaction here is right or wrong, but it is an echo chamber of it's own weird kind.

Yeah, I agree.

I simply went through the update and looked at what the dialogues were saying on a multitude of subjects and what the script differences were from the original Chs 1 - 3.

I was firmly in the Katie-caught-Will-and-Leia camp, so was surprised by what came out of the update. I am certainly not saying the scenario Ocean chose to present is believable beyond porn/AVN logic.

Of course, bcause original WiaB had those flashback renders. But that's no longer the case. I agree with your rationale, but why do all the "dominos" have to be with the same person? We know he had SOMETHING with Leia, based on her extreme reaction, and the tree carving and the flashback, so there's two dominos. Maybe there was something with Helen. Regardless, it's all getting way too serious and 16 year old not-so-giga-not-so-chad freaks out, because his mind blows these things out of proportion, starts thinking he's going to be clipped. Doesn't matter if it's not real, 16 year old him raised by Helen who forbids guns in the house still freaks out.

And we don't know the extent of what he's done. The 'ballon' over Francesco's head? Like, choking the son of one of the bif families as a prank?

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camel's back. We might not know the catalyst yet though.

At the risk of repeating myself I don't see it as a Macguffin at all. Ic was a very core theme to both of Ocean's games. It is obvious. It is explicit. If you refuse to see it, that's on you but it won't change that fact. The games were designed by Ocean with ic at their very core. He can try to backtrack and run from it as fast as he can, he won't ever change that.

Actually, he just did. Pirate versions are the only way you can get old WiaB pre-remake, and I'm pretty sure that once Ocean has WiaB ch4 on SS, there will be no ch3 there. Holding onto the past this hard will require a tight grip, once the fileshare links die from lack of downloads. Without it there, who will even notice what was the core of the experience? New players who just stepped in to WiaB don't know what the dynamics were, new players to SG think Mila was always curvy, new players to WiaB don't know about futa Helen.

Life is change and adaption

Don't remember when but Katie is confirmed 19 years old

Isn't she in her final year of college, wasn't that why she was trying to get ready to put out her first collection? I might have misremembered something there though.

 

[LHDLLB]

I know it's been answered, but keep in mind Dana was in Willi's class. She finished secondary, started university, got a law degree and has risen through the ranks. Mon was also there, and Mon went through college, then entered the police force, now has a career. Leia Has had time to go through therapy , take over Joes businesses and run them well enough that she's wone the loyalty of everyone calling her 'Princess' so Joe's been in Prison a while, and I doubt they let an 18 year old run a bar with glory holes straight up. Those kind of details (Dana's in particular) give us a good window, she has to have been out of uni and in her job long enough to be at the buying expensive rum and cigars stage.



So 96 positive reviews on steam, 12 negative. Seems the people buying the game enjoy it more. Because correlation equals causation, right? Not suggesting the reaction here is right or wrong, but it is an echo chamber of it's own weird kind.



Of course, bcause original WiaB had those flashback renders. But that's no longer the case. I agree with your rationale, but why do all the "dominos" have to be with the same person? We know he had SOMETHING with Leia, based on her extreme reaction, and the tree carving and the flashback, so there's two dominos. Maybe there was something with Helen. Regardless, it's all getting way too serious and 16 year old not-so-giga-not-so-chad freaks out, because his mind blows these things out of proportion, starts thinking he's going to be clipped. Doesn't matter if it's not real, 16 year old him raised by Helen who forbids guns in the house still freaks out.

And we don't know the extent of what he's done. The 'ballon' over Francesco's head? Like, choking the son of one of the bif families as a prank?

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camel's back. We might not know the catalyst yet though.



Actually, he just did. Pirate versions are the only way you can get old WiaB pre-remake, and I'm pretty sure that once Ocean has WiaB ch4 on SS, there will be no ch3 there. Holding onto the past this hard will require a tight grip, once the fileshare links die from lack of downloads. Without it there, who will even notice what was the core of the experience? New players who just stepped in to WiaB don't know what the dynamics were, new players to SG think Mila was always curvy, new players to WiaB don't know about futa Helen.

Life is change and adaption



Isn't she in her final year of college, wasn't that why she was trying to get ready to put out her first collection? I might have misremembered something there though.

I don't think so. But is not impossible but if só Katie is 22, 24 tops ? That make her much closer to Leia and William

 

[BobTheDuck]

I don't think so. But is not impossible but if só Katie in 22, 24 tops ? That make her much closer than Leia and William

Ah found it:

k "You know... I'm about to graduate from college and have a high education." Scene where they're watching Tiny Grey.

 

[RNasc4444]

Ah found it:

k "You know... I'm about to graduate from college and have a high education." Scene where they're watching Tiny Grey.

Nice! So she is 21-22 indeed. Which makes it the 3-4 year gap I was assuming.

d "Same."
    k "I even posted it on the forum! They insulted me and called me stupid."
    scene ad610 with dssa
    d "I call you stupid, too. But you're spot on with that one."
    scene ad611 with dssa
    k "You know... I'm about to graduate from college and have a high education."
    k "What do you have?"

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I don't think so. But is not impossible but if só Katie in 22, 24 tops ? That make her much closer than Leia and William

it could also be

 

[LHDLLB]

Ah found it:

k "You know... I'm about to graduate from college and have a high education." Scene where they're watching Tiny Grey.

Nice! So she is 21-22 indeed. Which makes it the 3-4 year gap I was assuming.

d "Same."
    k "I even posted it on the forum! They insulted me and called me stupid."
    scene ad610 with dssa
    d "I call you stupid, too. But you're spot on with that one."
    scene ad611 with dssa
    k "You know... I'm about to graduate from college and have a high education."
    k "What do you have?"

I won't argue facts. But I kinda feel I am going crazy cause I am sure her age was mentioned as 19.

 

[BobTheDuck]

d "*laughs* No, not at all."
d "She's I think... 19?"
scene ag2109 with dssa
d "She's still a little bibi who's trying to find her place in the world."
scene ag2110 with dssa
tay "Oh, she's a Bibi too?"

So William talking with Taylor in Leia's club. But William's "I think?" is suspicious. For there to be Willi and Leia playing with toy dinosaurs with Katie when they're 12???????

 

[RNasc4444]

I won't argue facts. But I kinda feel I am going crazy cause I am sure her age was mentioned as 19.

Apparently you're not taking crazy pills...it's just another example of Ocean's magnificent writing

Idk who graduates at 19 but I'm pretty sure Katie doesn't meet the IQ requirements for enrolling in college at 15 years old

 

[sorco2003]

Ah found it:

k "You know... I'm about to graduate from college and have a high education." Scene where they're watching Tiny Grey.

What we don't know is what degree she has and what educational system she used. Looking online, two years is enough for a degree in fashion design.
or this one.


and I don't really remember if any of this is talked about in the game.

 

[LHDLLB]

d "*laughs* No, not at all."
d "She's I think... 19?"
scene ag2109 with dssa
d "She's still a little bibi who's trying to find her place in the world."
scene ag2110 with dssa
tay "Oh, she's a Bibi too?"

So William talking with Taylor in Leia's club. But William's "I think?" is suspicious. For there to be Willi and Leia playing with toy dinosaurs with Katie when they're 12???????

GODS THANK YOU. I was going crazy here. He might be off but but for 3 years ? Is too much. Só tops 21 ? And he is 25/26 ?

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Idk who graduates at 19 but I'm pretty sure Katie doesn't meet the IQ requirements for enrolling in college at 15 years old

Who needs IQ when....Mafia

 

[LHDLLB]

Apparently you're not taking crazy pills...it's just another example of Ocean's magnificent writing

Idk who graduates at 19 but I'm pretty sure Katie doesn't meet the IQ requirements for enrolling in college at 15 years old

I am not. At least not yet.

 

[byaaahh]

Apparently you're not taking crazy pills...it's just another example of Ocean's magnificent writing

Idk who graduates at 19 but I'm pretty sure Katie doesn't meet the IQ requirements for enrolling in college at 15 years old

I mean, if she joined a two year course after finishing high school (most are 18, the youngest in the classes may be 17), it's possible.

I was amongst the youngest in my year and finished at 15 (secondary finished at 16)

 

[Maviarab]

Who needs IQ when....Mafia

Exactly Dr. Mob Reasons!

 

[LHDLLB]

What we don't know is what degree she has and what educational system she used. Looking online, two years is enough for a degree in fashion design.
or this one.
View attachment 5029708

and I don't really remember if any of this is talked about in the game.

It is not. In my contry any superior education is mínimal 4 years, but she could just be saying that in the near future.

 

[RNasc4444]

I mean, if she joined a two year course after finishing high school (most are 18, the youngest in the classes may be 17), it's possible.

I was amongst the youngest in my year and finished at 15 (secondary finished at 16)

Yeah I guess that makes sense then. So the age gap is around 5-6 years. Which yeah makes it a little more creepy in my book for 16 year old Will to be kissing a 10-11 year old Katie.

Which in turn makes a more plausible argument for Will leaving. I'd be dipping too after that episode plus Mon's thing and Leia's thing. Multiple domino's falling.

 

[BobTheDuck]

GODS THANK YOU. I was going crazy here. He might be off but but for 3 years ? Is too much. Só tops 21 ? And he is 25/26 ?

I'd say 5-9 playing with rubber dinos is not too weird an age gap. But it's really unknown. Willi could be misleading Taylor. Think about Katie's circle including mostly people WIlli's age: Mon, Gina and Dana were all the same age as William and Leia right, being in the same year in school? At least that was the vibe I got - Mon and Dan graduated and got jobs, Dana in particular has been out long enough to make a quick fortune and buy rum, cigars and palatial apartmentsm aiming to get promoted to all time badass of the company. That doesn't happen on your first year out.

So I'd say th intended age gap is small, and Ocean just hasn't thought it through 100%.

Kata's seen as the young one.

 

[LHDLLB]

Yeah I guess that makes sense then. So the age gap is around 5-6 years. Which yeah makes it a little more creepy in my book for 16 year old Will to be kissing a 10-11 year old Katie.

Which in turn makes a more plausible argument for Will leaving. I'd be dipping too after that episode plus Mon's thing and Leia's thing. Multiple domino's falling.

I am not sure if Ocean did this math because 16 to 11 is a hell of a difference.

 

[byaaahh]

Yeah I guess that makes sense then. So the age gap is around 5-6 years. Which yeah makes it a little more creepy in my book for 16 year old Will to be kissing a 10-11 year old Katie.

Which in turn makes a more plausible argument for Will leaving. I'd be dipping too after that episode plus Mon's thing and Leia's thing. Multiple domino's falling.

But what's more egregious to Subscribestar, Incest or that!?

 

[sorco2003]

It is not. In my contry any superior education is mínimal 4 years, but she could just be saying that in the near future.

Here in my country, it's not a minimum of four years; advanced technical degrees can take two years. The next step is a bachelor's degree, which takes a minimum of four years and up to six. In the case of lawyers, it's a minimum of six years, including a doctorate, and then you're lucky if you can work in a law firm where they prepare you for court cases.