VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[RNasc4444]

I actually think this scenario/dynamic between William and Katie is great, so much more impactful than any i-scenario.

You had me there for a while but this is where you lose me. Completely. We're on different realities.

To me that would be saying I'd rather eat shit than any good old regular burger.

I feel absolutely nothing when William/Leia/Katie engage with each other. They feel like strangers. Because that's what they are. I literally sense more familiarity when he speaks to Dana, Gina or Kat than any of the above.

And you can keep propping up the "mafia rules taboo" as much as you want, it still won't make it any real. Because they are and have been completely detached from the Zanes. They don't give a single fuck. They don't care about Leia's dangerous shenanigans, they don't care Katie is dating Zoe and they never gave a shit about William or they would have sought him out when he left or when he returned.

The mafia shit here is nothing. It's a fart blowing in the winter air. It's silly mentions here and there trying to make you fear a neutered foe. It's a desperate attempt at trying to maintain some narrative coherence and it does it about as well as a single stick trying to hold up a house.

Also it doesn't really feel like William's life is or was "on the line" at any point for any reason.

scene ab373 with dssa
    mi "It sounds dangerous. What if they don't exile you and instead go for a more permanent solution?"
    scene ab372a with dssa
    d "Nah, as much pain as I caused everyone here... They love me, and I don't think they can afford to lose Leia."

 

[LHDLLB]

I think it because that is what is written in the WIAB dialogue script.

Again, any relationship between Will and Katie, presumably even a hint of one, was expressly forbidden by the families. The kiss seemingly crossed that line and Will was afraid Katie would use it against him.



Look at what Katarina said when asked the hypothetical question about Will sleeping with Katie, "Yeah, but if he slept with Leia instead of you, at least he wouldn't be clipped." She meant that in earnest because she stated earlier, "Just thinking about this question makes me anxious..."

It seems that the kiss started it all - that is NOT speculation, it's what is written in the script. What other factors happened subsequent to the kiss to make William leave are open to speculation because nothing else is stated in the script. They could involve William's relationship with Leia, they could involve Katie threatening to blackmail William, or they could involve something else entirely. We just don't know the full story yet.

I replayed WIAB from the start to finish and noted (among other things) EVERYTHING related to the reason William left and the secret Katie held that Will was so afraid of.

What I've presented as dialogues in my previous posts is 95% of what's given in the script about the reason William left. The other 5% is a rumor Dana mentions (that is in both versions of the game) that I hadn't posted yet:

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As far as I saw going through, Leia doesn't know exactly why William left and William never gives her anything close to an clear explanation.

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In my previous posts I have simply put forth what multiple dialogues say on the subject. I would welcome any other reasonable interpretations of all those dialogues because they all point to the same thing as far as I can see.

The dialogues reinforce:

1. A William/Katie relationship was strictly taboo in the family(s) and a William/Leia relationship was either less taboo or not taboo at all in the family(s) (confirmed by William/Katie/Katarina)
2. William/Katie shared at a kiss sometime before he left, with both knowing the act was taboo (confirmed by William/Katie)
3. William feared Katie would reveal the kiss to Helen/Dylan and possibly Leia (confirmed by William a few times)

I actually think this scenario/dynamic between William and Katie is great, so much more impactful than any i-scenario. William is literally putting his life on the line romancing Katie, more so if he lets her take compromising selfies of them together. His life is literally in her hands - someone he traditionally doesn't trust. That dynamic is akin to someone putting their John Thomas into the mouth of a sleeping lioness and praying for the best...

I don't disagree with that. Just that at the pool Katie was refering to the kiss as the "hot beams" that caused William to left, and that the "her" was Leia. We do not know that. But is a good line of thought.

What I am saying is that something more beyong the kiss must have happen. William didn't leave because a Katie gave him a peck on the lips. But it certainly played a role. We don't know how those bits comes together to formna whole. Some of this dialogues may be leftover. Dana comment seems like it if William and Leia was never a problem. And the time of the kiss is important too. Now you might very well be right and William did leave because a 11 years old Katie gave him a peck... it just would be a awalful reason to it, I think. But yeah, there are evidence for it.

 

[Maccabbee]

You had me there for a while but this is where you lose me. Completely. We're on different realities.

To me that would be saying I'd rather eat shit than any good old regular burger.

I feel absolutely nothing when William/Leia/Katie engage with each other. They feel like strangers. Because that's what they are. I literally sense more familiarity when he speaks to Dana, Gina or Kat than any of the above.

And you can keep propping up the "mafia rules taboo" as much as you want, it still won't make it any real. Because they are and have been completely detached from the Zanes. They don't give a single fuck. They don't care about Leia's dangerous shenanigans, they don't care Katie is dating Zoe and they never gave a shit about William or they would have sought him out when he left or when he returned.

The mafia shit here is nothing. It's a fart blowing in the winter air. It's silly mentions here and there trying to make you fear a neutered foe. It's a desperate attempt at trying to maintain some narrative coherence and it does it about as well as a single stick trying to hold up a house.

Dude, we've covered this ground ad nauseam for days. It's pretty clear that this is a "you" issue, and not a "real" issue, and that's fine. You preferred the old fucked up mess rather than the new fucked up mess. Don't have a stroke.

I don't disagree with that. Just that at the pool Katie was refering to the kiss as the "hot beams" that caused William to left, and that the "her" was Leia. We do not know that. But is a good line of thought.

What I am saying is that something more beyong the kiss must have happen. William didn't leave because a Katie gave him a peck on the lips. But it certainly played a role. We don't know how those bits comes together to formna whole. Some of this dialogues may be leftover. Dana comment seems like it if William and Leia was never a problem. And the time of the kiss is important too. Now you might very well be right and William did leave because a 11 years old Katie gave him a peck... it just would be a awalful reason to it, I think. But yeah, there are evidence for it.

We will find out, I presume, or maybe not. Don't forget that he was only 16, and not the most rational 16 year old in the world.

 

[RNasc4444]

Dude, we've covered this ground ad nauseam for days. It's pretty clear that this is a "you" issue, and not a "real" issue, and that's fine. You preferred the old fucked up mess rather than the new fucked up mess. Don't have a stroke.

Disingenuous much? You must have already forgotten the general opinion on this thread the past few days

Well my notifications tab didn't forget. Like I've said in a previous post, it hasn't been nearly enough time to start the revisionism about this latest update. Wait a few months at least

It's ok that people overall didn't enjoy this direction here. It's ok to be in the minority. You don't have to be butthurt about it like a little bitch.

 

[LHDLLB]

Dude, we've covered this ground ad nauseam for days. It's pretty clear that this is a "you" issue, and not a "real" issue, and that's fine. You preferred the old fucked up mess rather than the new fucked up mess. Don't have a stroke.



We will find out, I presume, or maybe not. Don't forget that he was only 16, and not the most rational 16 year old in the world.

Yeah, he was not all that sharp but William was never dumb. As the reason that he left. Before it seemed that only the kids knew, now I don't think so, Helen at least must know. And it dosen't seem was all that bad as he dosen't thinks he will die. As I said is hard to because we don't know how much this chapther changed of his original intent. Thinking about it the reason that William left is now more a curiosity than a major thing.

 

[John972]

I don't disagree with that. Just that at the pool Katie was refering to the kiss as the "hot beams" that caused William to left, and that the "her" was Leia. We do not know that. But is a good line of thought.

What I am saying is that something more beyong the kiss must have happen. William didn't leave because a Katie gave him a peck on the lips. But it certainly played a role. We don't know how those bits comes together to formna whole. Some of this dialogues may be leftover. Dana comment seems like it if William and Leia was never a problem. And the time of the kiss is important too. Now you might very well be right and William did leave because a 11 years old Katie gave him a peck... it just would be a awalful reason to it, I think. But yeah, there are evidence for it.

I don't think it's all of it, but, at this point (by the end of Ch 4) the kiss is the only confirmed thing that Katie was holding over him (which he blames her for causing him to leave).

There is also this striking aspect of Ocean choosing to emphasize significant differences in taboo and consequences between a William/Leia relationship and a William/Katie relationship. Ocean kinda relegated the William/Leia relationship to one that wouldn't have the kind of consequences that, taken in isolation, would force William to flee.

 

[John972]

Disingenuous much? You must have already forgotten the general opinion on this thread the past few days

Well my notifications tab didn't forget. Like I've said in a previous post, it hasn't been nearly enough time to start the revisionism about this latest update. Wait a few months at least

It's ok that people overall didn't enjoy this direction here. It's ok to be in the minority. You don't have to be butthurt about it like a little bitch.

When I first looked at this thread after the update dropped, all I saw was mass BUTTHURT by a legion of players who didn't like the deletion of the i-theme. The majority of those posts were rudimentary and didn't really explain much beyond their disappointment and how the game didn't make sense to them any more.

But, of course, they are the majority, who I expect will not be around on here when the next update eventually drops because they surely won't play it...

 

[LHDLLB]

I don't think it's all of it, but, at this point (by the end of Ch 4) the kiss is the only confirmed thing that Katie was holding over him (which he blames her for causing him to leave).

There is also this striking aspect of Ocean choosing to emphasize significant differences in taboo and consequences between a William/Leia relationship and a William/Katie relationship. Ocean kinda relegated the William/Leia relationship to one that wouldn't have the kind of consequences that, taken in isolation, would force William to flee.

I get you. I just hopes there is more to it.

I noiticed it too. Rather strange as the previous chapther made William and Leia such a big deal, but it fits the new dynamic. I still think those are rather shake grounds to build upon and that Ocean need to make things clear and solid soon, maybe end of the season is too late. As I said I don't necessarily disagree with you, aside the pool scene- I just hopes for something more, because if William leave for a peck Leia was just beyond right.

 

[John972]

I get you. I just hopes there is more to it.

I noiticed it too. Rather strange as the previous chapther made William and Leia such a big deal, but it fits the new dynamic. I still think those are rather shake grounds to build upon and that Ocean need to make things clear and solid soon, maybe end of the season is too late. As I said I don't necessarily disagree with you, aside the pool scene- I just hopes for something more, because if William leave for a peck Leia was just beyond right.

Yeah, I agree.

I simply went through the update and looked at what the dialogues were saying on a multitude of subjects and what the script differences were from the original Chs 1 - 3.

I was firmly in the Katie-caught-Will-and-Leia camp, so was surprised by what came out of the update. I am certainly not saying the scenario Ocean chose to present is believable beyond porn/AVN logic.

 

[RNasc4444]

When I first looked at this thread after the update dropped, all I saw was mass BUTTHURT by a legion of players who didn't like the deletion of the i-theme. The majority of those posts were rudimentary and didn't really explain much beyond their disappointment and how the game didn't make sense to them any more.

But, of course, they are the majority, who I expect will not be around on here when the next update eventually drops because they surely won't play it...

True. Although I'm pretty sure I read most of the posts here since the update and there were also a fair amount of players who saw past the ic removal and had other issues with the game. Even if they didn't post they showed support to those who did through reactions. You also had plenty of regulars showing some form of displeasure. Bundling them all up in the same pile and dismissing their concerns is just dumb.

And you best believe they will all be back in a year when the new update drops and we will get to do this song and dance again

 

[Zimowit]

Where it all Began - Season 1
is on GOG.com NOW in lowered price (przynajmniej w Polsce / at least in Poland)

 

[John972]

True. Although I'm pretty sure I read most of the posts here since the update and there were also a fair amount of players who saw past the ic removal and had other issues with the game. Even if they didn't post they showed support to those who did through reactions. You also had plenty of regulars showing some form of displeasure. Bundling them all up in the same pile and dismissing their concerns is just dumb.

And you best believe they will all be back in a year when the new update drops and we will get to do this song and dance again

Oh, I agree.

WIAB is no different from SG in that regard.

The way I look at it:

Original Ch 3:

• Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
• Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her. She doesn't trust William.
• Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. She doesn't trust William. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
• Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
• Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
• Miru is an insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
• William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

Reworked Ch 4:

• Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
• Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her. She doesn't trust William.
• Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. She doesn't trust William. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
• Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
• Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
• Miru is an insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
• William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

The i-theme has always been a Macguffin for me, and the new Mafia plot is the same, mostly because many of the background mechanics in the OceanVerse kinda don't always make sense or mirror the real world.

PS - my overall impression is that the update relegated the taboo of the William/Leia relationship behind the taboo of the William/Katie relationship.

Disclaimer: As I acknowledged in a previous post, I know many Patreons who supported WIAB for the i-content got shafted, and, if it wasn't for them, there would be no WIAB Steam edition.

 

[byaaahh]

Oh, I agree.

WIAB is no different from SG in that regard.

The way I look at it:

Original Ch 3:

• Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
• Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her.
• Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
• Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
• Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
• Miru is a insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
• William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

Reworked Ch 4:

• Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
• Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her.
• Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
• Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
• Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
• Miru is a insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
• William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

The i-theme has always been a Macguffin for me, and the new Mafia plot is the same, mostly because many of the background mechanics in the OceanVerse kinda don't always make sense or mirror the real world.

Why did William leave?

In Ch1-3, it was because he realised after blowing a load in Mon at a party he fell in love with his sister.
In Ch4, it's because he fell in love with a girl he was raised with, where there is no reason for him to feel shame.

If he fell in love with Katie from the get-go and was worried "la famiglia" would disapprove, fine.
The same doesn't extend to Leia though, both are pawns to be married off to benefit the family.

 

[Acsuka]

Now I'm just waiting for the moment when mafia stories and all content that allows forced marriages are banned on all platforms... Then there will be another remake, and another, and no one will ever know what the end of the original story will be...

 

[byaaahh]

You do write some utter rubbish.

Why are you still here again?

What rubbish? If Ocean is worried about losing his income, why make an AVN when the platform could decide at any moment they no longer want to host adult content?

He is on record as saying that WiaB makes substantially less than SG and is being subsidised by it. He's making it to expand the universe and prevent burnout from working on one title.

I'm here because I enjoyed the premise and mystery of a man who ran away and returned to mend the family he fractured. Now that isn't the case anymore, I'm sharing my opinion. I wasn't aware this was a "Only Ocean meat-riders allowed" forum, like his reddit and discord.

 

[Deleted member 9036076]

ok if the creator reads these, i need the stories!!! dont get me wrong the renpy is nice but if youve actually written alot farther alon on either summers gone or this one i will give $$$$$

 

[RNasc4444]

Oh, I agree.

WIAB is no different from SG in that regard.

The way I look at it:

Original Ch 3:

• Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
• Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her. She doesn't trust William.
• Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. She doesn't trust William. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
• Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
• Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
• Miru is an insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
• William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

Reworked Ch 4:

• Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
• Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her. She doesn't trust William.
• Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. She doesn't trust William. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
• Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
• Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
• Miru is an insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
• William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

The i-theme has always been a Macguffin for me, and the new Mafia plot is the same, mostly because many of the background mechanics in the OceanVerse kinda don't always make sense or mirror the real world.

Disclaimer: As I acknowledged in a previous post, I know many Patreons who supported WIAB for the i-content got shafted, and, if it wasn't for them, there would be no WIAB Steam edition.

Fair enough. I mean I completely disagree but at least I can see your point. You seem to have a very similar view to yossa in this regard.

At the risk of repeating myself I don't see it as a Macguffin at all. Ic was a very core theme to both of Ocean's games. It is obvious. It is explicit. If you refuse to see it, that's on you but it won't change that fact. The games were designed by Ocean with ic at their very core. He can try to backtrack and run from it as fast as he can, he won't ever change that.

It's also very clear he sought to replace the existing ic with something that would keep the very people who supported the initial versions of WiAB. He failed miserably, imo. He failed on all counts. Trying to replace a real taboo with a manufactured one was never going to go very well. He will lose the support of the folk that wanted their kink in the game. Sadly he also failed for lots of us who never cared about ic such as myself. I just wanted something plausible and believable. I wanted something that wouldn't rely on "porn brain" to stand on its own too feet and we didn't get that, like you pointed out, with this silly mafia plotline.

Yossa is gonna mock me for using this word again but the dynamics between the characters are crucial in this sort of game. As such, when you don't "feel" it...it becomes quite hard to enjoy

 

[jadepaladin]

ok if the creator reads these, i need the stories!!! dont get me wrong the renpy is nice but if youve actually written alot farther alon on either summers gone or this one i will give $$$$$

Ocean isn't here, or if he is, he's 100% a lurker now. If you want to give him money, try his subscribestar, or hell, swing by his discord and let him know you've got $$$$$ for him.

For facilitating this, I expect a cut of $.

 

[John972]

Why did William leave?

In Ch1-3, it was because he realised after blowing a load in Mon at a party he fell in love with his sister.
In Ch4, it's because he fell in love with a girl he was raised with, where there is no reason for him to feel shame.

If he fell in love with Katie from the get-go and was worried "la famiglia" would disapprove, fine.
The same doesn't extend to Leia though, both are pawns to be married off to benefit the family.

I don't recall any direct link between William creampieing Monica and William leaving. I think it's just stated that he left Mon on the kitchen table because he realized who he really loved. That hasn't changed from Ch 1- 3 to Ch 1 - 4.

Both versions have conversations where William blames Katie for knowing something she could spill the beans on as a factor in his leaving. Most of us speculated that Katie saw William and Leia in an inappropriate act. Ch 1 - 4 hasn't confirmed that at all.

 

[byaaahh]

I don't recall any direct link between William creampieing Monica and William leaving. I think it's just stated that he left Mon on the kitchen table because he realized who he really loved. That hasn't changed from Ch 1- 3 to Ch 1 - 4.

Both versions have conversations where William blames Katie for knowing something she could spill the beans on as a factor in his leaving. Most of us speculated that Katie saw William and Leia in an inappropriate act. Ch 1 - 4 hasn't confirmed that at all.

What other dirt could Katie have?

Keep in mind it's been 7 years William's been gone, so anything with Katie prior to leaving opens a whole can of underage worms.
The other option is she saw him with Helen...

All roads point to Leia though (the tree heart, the wood carvings, etc...)