VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[John972]

Katie was teasing them, but they never kissed until his return. Katie was jealous of the relationship between Leia and Will. She threatened to expose him, was kidding (according to her). Nowhere in that dialogue you quoted could I see any mention of a kiss between Katie and Will.

No, it is IMPLICIT that the first kiss happened before he left because he blames Katie for threatening to reveal it as a reason why he left, and their various conversations about it go back to before he kisses Katie in Ch 4.

 

[jadepaladin]

I will go and replay the scene as it seems I am missing bits and pieces. But you two seems to be at odds. Johnny says that the kiss was the first piece to fall, please correct me if I am wrong don't want to miss interpreted anyone, but Maccabbe says there was no kiss before the one in Ch4.

If there was a kiss with Katie before Ch4, I kinda want to know where because 6 years is a hell of a difference if you are 16/10.

I still don't buy William running from fear of Leia, but if he now runs because of Katie... I don't know.

Adding fuel to the "Katie and Will definitely kissed" fire because she mentions it at one point. That said, there's the possibly Katie is an unreliable narrator and is just teasing him but I don't buy it. Plus I can imagine a younger Katie doing it and then using it as blackmail material.

 

[LHDLLB]

John did post it in one of the spoilers. It was the shower scene. View attachment 5027899

Yeah, little peck. From a amused 10/ 11 years old girl dosen't seem a reason to flee. Not from Leia neither Helen and Dylan. I think this is here just to flash out Katie's feelings for William as something more old.

 

[John972]

I will go and replay the scene as it seems I am missing bits and pieces. But you two seems to be at odds. Johnny says that the kiss was the first piece to fall, please correct me if I am wrong don't want to miss interpreted anyone, but Maccabbe says there was no kiss before the one in Ch4.

If there was a kiss with Katie before Ch4, I kinda want to know where because 6 years is a hell of a difference if you are 16/10.

I still don't buy William running from fear of Leia, but if he now runs because of Katie... I don't know.

I think an issue might be that certain dialogues might only be available under certain conditions, i.e. player choices.

If you look at the spoiler I posted previously about the kiss and relationship taboos etc, she will see how various seperate dialogues tie together

 

[John972]

Adding fuel to the "Katie and Will definitely kissed" fire because she mentions it at one point. That said, there's the possibly Katie is an unreliable narrator and is just teasing him but I don't buy it. Plus I can imagine a younger Katie doing it and then using it as blackmail material.

William basically acknowledges the first kiss and kinda states that he's never dealt with it.

 

[LHDLLB]

Adding fuel to the "Katie and Will definitely kissed" fire because she mentions it at one point. That said, there's the possibly Katie is an unreliable narrator and is just teasing him but I don't buy it. Plus I can imagine a younger Katie doing it and then using it as blackmail material.

Yeah me too. My problem here is the age gap. 6 years is a lot in this scenario. And going back make it worse or better ? Katie a 6 kissing him at 12 is better or not ? It was a peck só dosen't seen like a sexual thing, with was always the case for Leia. I don't think the kiss was the reasons but maybe was a moment where William saw that his position was very unstable

 

[Maccabbee]

No, it is IMPLICIT that the first kiss happened before he left because he blames Katie for threatening to reveal it as a reason why he left, and their various conversations about it go back to before he kisses Katie in Ch 4.

No, she threatened to reveal Leia and William kissed.

 

[John972]

Yeah, little peck. From a amused 10/ 11 years old girl dosen't seem a reason to flee. Not from Leia neither Helen and Dylan. I think this is here just to flash out Katie's feelings for William as something more old.

The reworked story now has the added jeopardy that ANY intimate relationship between Will and Katie was expressly taboo/forbidden. See Katarina's reaction when she says Will would've got clipped if he had a relationship with Katie but not with Leia.

 

[Darkmessiah30]

Unfortunately I see 2 options that need to happen either Ocean fully rewrites wiab from scratch so the story actually makes fucking sense since he nuked the incest out but there is still signs of it still there which will result in a probable abandoned tag cause people won't care anymore, or he restores the incest and the content taken out either by patch or the way it was before. Like c'mon this game was incest for years and all off a sudden he nukes it for what reason this game ain't on patreon so there's no worry about them.

 

[LHDLLB]

I think an issue might be that certain dialogues might only be available under certain conditions, i.e. player choices.

If you look at the spoiler I posted previously about the kiss and relationship taboos etc, she will see how various seperate dialogues tie together

That is often the case but I in did played this scene, I just didn't make the connections you did. I am trying to speculate when this kiss might have happen and the implications of it

 

[jadepaladin]

Yeah me too. My problem here is the age gap. 6 years is a lot in this scenario. And going back make it worse or better ? Katie a 6 kissing him at 12 is better or not ? It was a peck só dosen't seen like a sexual thing, with was always the case for Leia. I don't think the kiss was the reasons but maybe was a moment where William saw that his position was very unstable

I'm not sure I have the brain cells left to get into Ocean math. The kiss is just one of those things I choose to accept and don't think too much about because it'll just lead to confusion. You're right though, 6 is a lot. 19/13, 18/12, 17/11, etc. Nothing good comes of it, no matter how you think about it.

 

[LHDLLB]

The reworked story now has the added jeopardy that ANY intimate relationship between Will and Katie was expressly taboo/forbidden. See Katarina's reaction when she says Will would've got clipped if he had a relationship with Katie but not with Leia.

Yeah I get that. But was not a relationship, was peck from a girl and I don't think Uncle Gepeto would clip a boy over it. Was not a relationship.

 

[DanThaMan]

Unfortunately I see 2 options that need to happen either Ocean fully rewrites wiab from scratch so the story actually makes fucking sense since he nuked the incest out but there is still signs of it still there which will result in a probable abandoned tag cause people won't care anymore, or he restores the incest and the content taken out either by patch or the way it was before. Like c'mon this game was incest for years and all off a sudden he nukes it for what reason this game ain't on patreon so there's no worry about them.

But it's on Subscribestar where incest isn't allowed and then there's always a chance that Steam may also ban it in the future.

 

[John972]

No, she threatened to reveal Leia and William kissed.

No she did not! The dialogues are reasonably clear that she could've told Helen/Dylan ("them") and Leia ("her") about what happened.

The whole Katie-saw-Will-and-Leia-and-threatened-to-spill-the-tea was our (F95 fan) speculated theory before Ch 4 was released, and it was based on a lot of supposition because of the i-taboo.

 

[LHDLLB]

I'm not sure I have the brain cells left to get into Ocean math. The kiss is just one of those things I choose to accept and don't think too much about because it'll just lead to confusion. You're right though, 6 is a lot. 19/13, 18/12, 17/11, etc. Nothing good comes of it, no matter how you think about it.

Yeah, and is worse because it is new or the kiss was always there ? I did not think much of it at the moment because I did not made the connections Jhonny did, the kiss was a way to show that Katie had a long and old crush on William that he never acknowledge. Plus all the bulling, Katie was very jealousy of Leia and William too.

 

[John972]

Yeah I get that. But was not a relationship, was peck from a girl and I don't think Uncle Gepeto would clip a boy over it. Was not a relationship.

I never said it has to make reasonable sense (it's the OceanVerse, after all). It's just what the story presents in multiple dialogues.

 

[LHDLLB]

No she did not! The dialogues are reasonably clear that she could've told Helen/Dylan ("them") and Leia ("her") about what happened.

The whole Katie-saw-Will-and-Leia-and-threatened-to-spill-the-tea was our (F95 fan) speculated theory before Ch 4 was released, and it was based on a lot of supposition because of the i-taboo.

I don't think that it is as clear as you are putting it out to be. We are still speculating. While I don't think the kiss is a strong enough reason it might have played a role on the unfoling of events.

 

[John972]

I don't think that it is as clear as you are putting it out to be. We are still speculating. While I don't think the kiss is a strong enough reason it might have played a role on the unfoling of events.

Katie said it was the "first domino" - so, it was a factor and Will was frightened at the time that she would spill the beans on it (as he acknowledges multiple times). Any other "dominos" leading Will to run have no been truly revealed yet, so it's those factirs that are subject to pure speculation.

 

[LHDLLB]

I never said it has to make reasonable sense (it's the OceanVerse, after all). It's just what the story presents in multiple dialogues.

The story make various hints and at times contradictory ones. The kissed happened. This is fact. What came out of it don't. And I still am uncomfortable with a 10/11 years old Katie kissing William. My take on it is: the kiss happened a lot younger maybe 7-12, William panic, and distanced himself from Katie, grew closer to Leia and then bullying. I don't fuck know anymore.

 

[LHDLLB]

Katie said it was the "first domino" - so, it was a factor and Will was frightened at the time that she would spill the beans on it (as he acknowledges multiple times). Any other "dominos" leading Will to run have no been truly revealed yet, so it's those factirs that are subject to pure speculation.

I just don't understand why you think the kiss was the hot beans she would spill when he was 16 when we don't know when the kiss happened or the circumstances of it. But I agree that the kiss was a factor, but not the reason