VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

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RNasc4444

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Dude, we've covered this ground ad nauseam for days. It's pretty clear that this is a "you" issue, and not a "real" issue, and that's fine. You preferred the old fucked up mess rather than the new fucked up mess. Don't have a stroke.
Disingenuous much? You must have already forgotten the general opinion on this thread the past few days :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Well my notifications tab didn't forget. Like I've said in a previous post, it hasn't been nearly enough time to start the revisionism about this latest update. Wait a few months at least ;)

It's ok that people overall didn't enjoy this direction here. It's ok to be in the minority. You don't have to be butthurt about it like a little bitch.
 

LHDLLB

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Dude, we've covered this ground ad nauseam for days. It's pretty clear that this is a "you" issue, and not a "real" issue, and that's fine. You preferred the old fucked up mess rather than the new fucked up mess. Don't have a stroke.



We will find out, I presume, or maybe not. Don't forget that he was only 16, and not the most rational 16 year old in the world.
Yeah, he was not all that sharp but William was never dumb. As the reason that he left. Before it seemed that only the kids knew, now I don't think so, Helen at least must know. And it dosen't seem was all that bad as he dosen't thinks he will die. As I said is hard to because we don't know how much this chapther changed of his original intent. Thinking about it the reason that William left is now more a curiosity than a major thing.
 

John972

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I don't disagree with that. Just that at the pool Katie was refering to the kiss as the "hot beams" that caused William to left, and that the "her" was Leia. We do not know that. But is a good line of thought.

What I am saying is that something more beyong the kiss must have happen. William didn't leave because a Katie gave him a peck on the lips. But it certainly played a role. We don't know how those bits comes together to formna whole. Some of this dialogues may be leftover. Dana comment seems like it if William and Leia was never a problem. And the time of the kiss is important too. Now you might very well be right and William did leave because a 11 years old Katie gave him a peck... it just would be a awalful reason to it, I think. But yeah, there are evidence for it.
I don't think it's all of it, but, at this point (by the end of Ch 4) the kiss is the only confirmed thing that Katie was holding over him (which he blames her for causing him to leave).

There is also this striking aspect of Ocean choosing to emphasize significant differences in taboo and consequences between a William/Leia relationship and a William/Katie relationship. Ocean kinda relegated the William/Leia relationship to one that wouldn't have the kind of consequences that, taken in isolation, would force William to flee.
 
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John972

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Disingenuous much? You must have already forgotten the general opinion on this thread the past few days :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Well my notifications tab didn't forget. Like I've said in a previous post, it hasn't been nearly enough time to start the revisionism about this latest update. Wait a few months at least ;)

It's ok that people overall didn't enjoy this direction here. It's ok to be in the minority. You don't have to be butthurt about it like a little bitch.
When I first looked at this thread after the update dropped, all I saw was mass BUTTHURT by a legion of players who didn't like the deletion of the i-theme. The majority of those posts were rudimentary and didn't really explain much beyond their disappointment and how the game didn't make sense to them any more.

But, of course, they are the majority, who I expect will not be around on here when the next update eventually drops because they surely won't play it...
 
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LHDLLB

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I don't think it's all of it, but, at this point (by the end of Ch 4) the kiss is the only confirmed thing that Katie was holding over him (which he blames her for causing him to leave).

There is also this striking aspect of Ocean choosing to emphasize significant differences in taboo and consequences between a William/Leia relationship and a William/Katie relationship. Ocean kinda relegated the William/Leia relationship to one that wouldn't have the kind of consequences that, taken in isolation, would force William to flee.
I get you. I just hopes there is more to it.

I noiticed it too. Rather strange as the previous chapther made William and Leia such a big deal, but it fits the new dynamic. I still think those are rather shake grounds to build upon and that Ocean need to make things clear and solid soon, maybe end of the season is too late. As I said I don't necessarily disagree with you, aside the pool scene- I just hopes for something more, because if William leave for a peck Leia was just beyond right.
 

John972

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I get you. I just hopes there is more to it.

I noiticed it too. Rather strange as the previous chapther made William and Leia such a big deal, but it fits the new dynamic. I still think those are rather shake grounds to build upon and that Ocean need to make things clear and solid soon, maybe end of the season is too late. As I said I don't necessarily disagree with you, aside the pool scene- I just hopes for something more, because if William leave for a peck Leia was just beyond right.
Yeah, I agree.

I simply went through the update and looked at what the dialogues were saying on a multitude of subjects and what the script differences were from the original Chs 1 - 3.

I was firmly in the Katie-caught-Will-and-Leia camp, so was surprised by what came out of the update. I am certainly not saying the scenario Ocean chose to present is believable beyond porn/AVN logic.
 

RNasc4444

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When I first looked at this thread after the update dropped, all I saw was mass BUTTHURT by a legion of players who didn't like the deletion of the i-theme. The majority of those posts were rudimentary and didn't really explain much beyond their disappointment and how the game didn't make sense to them any more.

But, of course, they are the majority, who I expect will not be around on here when the next update eventually drops because they surely won't play it...
True. Although I'm pretty sure I read most of the posts here since the update and there were also a fair amount of players who saw past the ic removal and had other issues with the game. Even if they didn't post they showed support to those who did through reactions. You also had plenty of regulars showing some form of displeasure. Bundling them all up in the same pile and dismissing their concerns is just dumb.

And you best believe they will all be back in a year when the new update drops and we will get to do this song and dance again :LOL:
 

Zimowit

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Where it all Began - Season 1
is on GOG.com NOW in lowered price (przynajmniej w Polsce / at least in Poland)
 

John972

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True. Although I'm pretty sure I read most of the posts here since the update and there were also a fair amount of players who saw past the ic removal and had other issues with the game. Even if they didn't post they showed support to those who did through reactions. You also had plenty of regulars showing some form of displeasure. Bundling them all up in the same pile and dismissing their concerns is just dumb.

And you best believe they will all be back in a year when the new update drops and we will get to do this song and dance again :LOL:
Oh, I agree.

WIAB is no different from SG in that regard.

The way I look at it:

Original Ch 3:

  • Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
  • Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her. She doesn't trust William.
  • Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. She doesn't trust William. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
  • Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
  • Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
  • Miru is an insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
  • William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

Reworked Ch 4:

  • Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
  • Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her. She doesn't trust William.
  • Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. She doesn't trust William. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
  • Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
  • Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
  • Miru is an insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
  • William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

The i-theme has always been a Macguffin for me, and the new Mafia plot is the same, mostly because many of the background mechanics in the OceanVerse kinda don't always make sense or mirror the real world.

PS - my overall impression is that the update relegated the taboo of the William/Leia relationship behind the taboo of the William/Katie relationship.

Disclaimer: As I acknowledged in a previous post, I know many Patreons who supported WIAB for the i-content got shafted, and, if it wasn't for them, there would be no WIAB Steam edition.
 
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byaaahh

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Oh, I agree.

WIAB is no different from SG in that regard.

The way I look at it:

Original Ch 3:

  • Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
  • Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her.
  • Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
  • Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
  • Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
  • Miru is a insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
  • William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

Reworked Ch 4:

  • Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
  • Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her.
  • Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
  • Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
  • Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
  • Miru is a insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
  • William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

The i-theme has always been a Macguffin for me, and the new Mafia plot is the same, mostly because many of the background mechanics in the OceanVerse kinda don't always make sense or mirror the real world.
Why did William leave?

In Ch1-3, it was because he realised after blowing a load in Mon at a party he fell in love with his sister.
In Ch4, it's because he fell in love with a girl he was raised with, where there is no reason for him to feel shame.

If he fell in love with Katie from the get-go and was worried "la famiglia" would disapprove, fine.
The same doesn't extend to Leia though, both are pawns to be married off to benefit the family.
 

Acsuka

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Now I'm just waiting for the moment when mafia stories and all content that allows forced marriages are banned on all platforms... Then there will be another remake, and another, and no one will ever know what the end of the original story will be...
 

byaaahh

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Feb 3, 2018
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You do write some utter rubbish.

Why are you still here again?
What rubbish? If Ocean is worried about losing his income, why make an AVN when the platform could decide at any moment they no longer want to host adult content?

He is on record as saying that WiaB makes substantially less than SG and is being subsidised by it. He's making it to expand the universe and prevent burnout from working on one title.

I'm here because I enjoyed the premise and mystery of a man who ran away and returned to mend the family he fractured. Now that isn't the case anymore, I'm sharing my opinion. I wasn't aware this was a "Only Ocean meat-riders allowed" forum, like his reddit and discord.
 
May 8, 2025
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ok if the creator reads these, i need the stories!!! dont get me wrong the renpy is nice but if youve actually written alot farther alon on either summers gone or this one i will give $$$$$
 

RNasc4444

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Aug 16, 2022
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Oh, I agree.

WIAB is no different from SG in that regard.

The way I look at it:

Original Ch 3:

  • Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
  • Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her. She doesn't trust William.
  • Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. She doesn't trust William. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
  • Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
  • Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
  • Miru is an insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
  • William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

Reworked Ch 4:

  • Helen is a family matriarch who has reason to be angry with William, but seems to be genuinely happy that William's back. For some as yet unexplained reason, she flirts with William inappropriately.
  • Leia is a butthurt and bitter former partner of William who resents his leaving their relationship and abandoning her. She doesn't trust William.
  • Katie is a childish and manipulative brat who still sees William as the bully he was during their childhood. She doesn't trust William. Their interplays always have a strong sexual undercurrent.
  • Gina and Ni are the love-starved platonic friends of William.
  • Zoey is a bi nympho with the hots for William (and the LI made for the threesome trope)
  • Miru is an insatiable ninja who wants a family of her own and values trustworthiness and fidelity in her relationships.
  • William is a Gigachad (certainly on the outside, but with some redeeming traits buried deep within) who doesn't trust Leia or Katie.

The i-theme has always been a Macguffin for me, and the new Mafia plot is the same, mostly because many of the background mechanics in the OceanVerse kinda don't always make sense or mirror the real world.

Disclaimer: As I acknowledged in a previous post, I know many Patreons who supported WIAB for the i-content got shafted, and, if it wasn't for them, there would be no WIAB Steam edition.
Fair enough. I mean I completely disagree but at least I can see your point. You seem to have a very similar view to yossa in this regard.

At the risk of repeating myself I don't see it as a Macguffin at all. Ic was a very core theme to both of Ocean's games. It is obvious. It is explicit. If you refuse to see it, that's on you but it won't change that fact. The games were designed by Ocean with ic at their very core. He can try to backtrack and run from it as fast as he can, he won't ever change that.

It's also very clear he sought to replace the existing ic with something that would keep the very people who supported the initial versions of WiAB. He failed miserably, imo. He failed on all counts. Trying to replace a real taboo with a manufactured one was never going to go very well. He will lose the support of the folk that wanted their kink in the game. Sadly he also failed for lots of us who never cared about ic such as myself. I just wanted something plausible and believable. I wanted something that wouldn't rely on "porn brain" to stand on its own too feet and we didn't get that, like you pointed out, with this silly mafia plotline.

Yossa is gonna mock me for using this word again but the dynamics between the characters are crucial in this sort of game. As such, when you don't "feel" it...it becomes quite hard to enjoy :(
 

jadepaladin

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Mar 9, 2020
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ok if the creator reads these, i need the stories!!! dont get me wrong the renpy is nice but if youve actually written alot farther alon on either summers gone or this one i will give $$$$$
Ocean isn't here, or if he is, he's 100% a lurker now. If you want to give him money, try his subscribestar, or hell, swing by his discord and let him know you've got $$$$$ for him.

For facilitating this, I expect a cut of $.
 
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John972

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Apr 24, 2018
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Why did William leave?

In Ch1-3, it was because he realised after blowing a load in Mon at a party he fell in love with his sister.
In Ch4, it's because he fell in love with a girl he was raised with, where there is no reason for him to feel shame.

If he fell in love with Katie from the get-go and was worried "la famiglia" would disapprove, fine.
The same doesn't extend to Leia though, both are pawns to be married off to benefit the family.
I don't recall any direct link between William creampieing Monica and William leaving. I think it's just stated that he left Mon on the kitchen table because he realized who he really loved. That hasn't changed from Ch 1- 3 to Ch 1 - 4.

Both versions have conversations where William blames Katie for knowing something she could spill the beans on as a factor in his leaving. Most of us speculated that Katie saw William and Leia in an inappropriate act. Ch 1 - 4 hasn't confirmed that at all.
 
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byaaahh

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I don't recall any direct link between William creampieing Monica and William leaving. I think it's just stated that he left Mon on the kitchen table because he realized who he really loved. That hasn't changed from Ch 1- 3 to Ch 1 - 4.

Both versions have conversations where William blames Katie for knowing something she could spill the beans on as a factor in his leaving. Most of us speculated that Katie saw William and Leia in an inappropriate act. Ch 1 - 4 hasn't confirmed that at all.
What other dirt could Katie have?

Keep in mind it's been 7 years William's been gone, so anything with Katie prior to leaving opens a whole can of underage worms.
The other option is she saw him with Helen...

All roads point to Leia though (the tree heart, the wood carvings, etc...)
 
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John972

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Fair enough. I mean I completely disagree but at least I can see your point. You seem to have a very similar view to yossa in this regard.

At the risk of repeating myself I don't see it as a Macguffin at all. Ic was a very core theme to both of Ocean's games. It is obvious. It is explicit. If you refuse to see it, that's on you but it won't change that fact. The games were designed by Ocean with ic at their very core. He can try to backtrack and run from it as fast as he can, he won't ever change that.

It's also very clear he sought to replace the existing ic with something that would keep the very people who supported the initial versions of WiAB. He failed miserably, imo. He failed on all counts. Trying to replace a real taboo with a manufactured one was never going to go very well. He will lose the support of the folk that wanted their kink in the game. Sadly he also failed for lots of us who never cared about ic such as myself. I just wanted something plausible and believable. I wanted something that wouldn't rely on "porn brain" to stand on its own too feet and we didn't get that, like you pointed out, with this silly mafia plotline.

Yossa is gonna mock me for using this word again but the dynamics between the characters are crucial in this sort of game. As such, when you don't "feel" it...it becomes quite hard to enjoy :(
Oh, I don't disagree. Each player has their own motivations for enjoying the game and what they find attractive (or not) in the various LIs.

I don't write off the Mafia substitution entirely, I just think it could've been incorporated better. Besides, I think the i-theme and the local gang wars (as opposed to mafia wars) were much easier to write (yes, that's an acknowledgement that I preferred the simpler local Wollust gang war plotline).

The hill I set myself up to die on is that Ocean had to go all-in or all-out with WIAB/SG. He chose to go all out. I acknowledge that things would've been much easier (story wise) if he went all-in.
 

John972

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What other dirt could Katie have?

Keep in mind it's been 7 years William's been gone, so anything with Katie prior to leaving opens a whole can of underage worms.
The other option is she saw him with Helen...

All roads point to Leia though (the tree heart, the wood carvings, etc...)
Ocean likes to drip feed information, so there is, no doubt, much, much more to be resolved. I don't think we have a complete picture on why William left yet, we just have some aspects of his reason(s) clarified with the update.
 
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