VN Ren'Py Where the Heart Is [S1 Rev1] [CheekyGimp]

[Vannhh]

Your life is as complicated as you make it for yourself.
You live in a house with other people.
Sure enpough, you wanna uphill battle your neighbors, feel the misery and the rejection,
go 4 it, your choice, your chore.


You work in place with other people, you interact with the same vendors, same clerks, same barrista.
You either make friends and be open to benefits, or they tag you the grinch and good luck living a good life.

You both have valid points though. The game does like to hit you over the knuckles for being a playboy, but it also rewards you with the most scenes when you try an lay everyone (up to a point atleast).

Honestly, it just adds to the game imo. In my last play through I did a primarily Lily/Debbie run, so I blew off Monica/Katy/Jenna. My MC did mention going on the spa holiday, but the scene just never happened which sucks quite a bit. It however made me really feel like a dog bit off my balls every single time Jenna showed MC what he missed out on, and then not having the option of going "you know what, I was an idiot get over here" was like getting nails punched through the dick. Thank gawd Lily is best girl so that took out some of the sting.

 

[acewinz]

I know this is a reply to an older comment...

I kind of feel the same about the game getting "awkward/weird", and it has nothing to do with the writing being awkward or weird (actually, the opposite)... but the thing is... the game kind of encourages you to engage with as many women as possible, yes, you can reject everyone or pick and choose, but the game is long, REALLY long and rejecting too many characters can make for a somewhat lackluster experience. I also had the hardest time to even reject one character, since the game kept throwing her at me again and again and AGAIN, even though I wanted nothing to do with her. So I had to keep refusing her advances but still keep things friendly with her, which can get a bit tedious.
But if you don't pick and choose only a few characters you - the player - may eventually reach a point where all the more or less honest declarations of love to all those women will make you feel very uneasy, because this game is NOT a harem game and you will eventually have to break up with several or almost all of those women whom you told in so many words that you're very serious about them. In short: it makes you feel like a complete asshole. Not because the writing is bad, but because you, via the MC, have become a sleazeball that romances everyone and who plays with the emotions of the love interests who (kind of) believe you are their only one. I mean after the first romantic beach house scene with Katie... (and if you like her of course) it gets increasingly difficult to keep engaging with the other women... but if you don't... things can get very boring, because Katie only has so many scenes and is absent for long stretches (like all the other characters).

I feel games like WTHI would greatly benefit from either... being a true (silly) harem game (but that is usually very unrealistic and I actually appreciate the approach here!) or having far fewer potential love interests that make an (eventual) solo route something that is worth playing. If someone solos Debbie... good luck, you will have to read entire phonebooks worth of dialogue and will have entire episodes with zero scenes. That usually does not make for a satisfying experience. Debbie is an extreme example, but even a solo Katie route will result in long stretches of zero scenes with her.

In other words, depending on what kind of person you are romancing almost everyone in this game will make you feel very awkward and weird, because it is not alright, it's very wrong actually. If you don't project any emotions into the game and characters and treat them as the imaginary pixel toys they are it's certainly different.

I will probably resort to to the schizophrenic tactic of engaging with as many women as possible (the ones that I like - so that the actual game doesn't become too boring for long stretches) and when complete disaster falls upon the MC I will just restart the chapter where things begin to turn south and set the variables so there is a Katie (or maybe Debbie) solo path. But playing like that is actually awkward and weird.

Too many VNs have this issue... too many love interests, solo paths punish players with lack of scenes or lack of content, so you are heavily encouraged to catch 'em all until you have to make a decision... but that can easily make someone feel like a complete douchebag if you'd rather actually be on a solo path, ESPECIALLY when it's not a harem game. And extremely long games like WTHI suffer from this issue a lot more. I want to see the poor person who has the mental fortitude to play a Debbie solo path without ever fooling around with anyone else (unless it's mandated by the story or a requirement to get to Debbie) and won't die of boredom or utter despair.

Spoiler: minor spoils

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[acewinz]

You both have valid points though. The game does like to hit you over the knuckles for being a playboy, but it also rewards you with the most scenes when you try an lay everyone (up to a point atleast).

Honestly, it just adds to the game imo. In my last play through I did a primarily Lily/Debbie run, so I blew off Monica/Katy/Jenna. My MC did mention going on the spa holiday, but the scene just never happened which sucks quite a bit. It however made me really feel like a dog bit off my balls every single time Jenna showed MC what he missed out on, and then not having the option of going "you know what, I was an idiot get over here" was like getting nails punched through the dick. Thank gawd Lily is best girl so that took out some of the sting.

Spoiler: spoils

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[DarkDemon]

can anyone please share today's dev update?

 

[Canto Forte]

Just read all about the future right above ..

 

[Vannhh]

Spoiler: spoils

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Ah! Awesome!

Great work you guys! This game is amazing. I hope there are still quite a lot of episodes coming. I just don't want this crazy ride to end!

 

[Geralt_R]

Sure enpough, you wanna uphill battle your neighbors, feel the misery and the rejection,
go 4 it, your choice, your chore.

Sure, you have all the choice. But from a gameplay perspective things can get pretty... uneventful... if you focus on the one you want to end up with because all the many characters only have so many interactions with the MC. And with a game that is as long as WTHI that can become a bit boring. This is not Haley's Story or Melody where you can easily focus on one woman and still have a game that makes sense with plenty of interactions and dialogue with that one character.
Also, in one chapter, where you are first asked who your number 1 choice for romantic partner would be... (and number 2)... the inner monologue heavily encourages you to still go after everyone. Implying a Harem ending that - for all we know - will not happen (and if wouldn't make sense given how the characters are, I wouldn't go for the harem even if there was an option, it feels wrong here in this game).
So the game goes out if its way to encourage you to pursue all...

 

[acewinz]

Sure, you have all the choice. But from a gameplay perspective things can get pretty... uneventful... if you focus on the one you want to end up with because all the many characters only have so many interactions with the MC. And with a game that is as long as WTHI that can become a bit boring. This is not Haley's Story or Melody where you can easily focus on one woman and still have a game that makes sense with plenty of interactions and dialogue with that one character.
Also, in one chapter, where you are first asked who your number 1 choice for romantic partner would be... (and number 2)... the inner monologue heavily encourages you to still go after everyone. Implying a Harem ending that - for all we know - will not happen (and if wouldn't make sense given how the characters are, I wouldn't go for the harem even if there was an option, it feels wrong here in this game).
So the game goes out if its way to encourage you to pursue all...

Spoiler: spoils

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[Harlaw]

....
Also, in one chapter, where you are first asked who your number 1 choice for romantic partner would be... (and number 2)... the inner monologue heavily encourages you to still go after everyone. ....

I think that's mostly because an MC that bangs every LI pretty comes across as a psychopath; Lots of insincere charm, no trouble in lying on the spot and doesn't feel a twinge of guilt for deceiving and playing with the emotions of the people close to him.

He's basically what his father would be if he was young, good looking and hung. So it's not a surprise his inner monologue wants him to pursue every women.

 

[Geralt_R]

He's basically what his father would be if he was young, good looking and hung. So it's not a surprise his inner monologue wants him to pursue every women.

I thought the same... at several times it's pointed out how the father was a cheating bastard... and the MC is maybe somewhat less of a bastard (not as controlling or outright evil, he tries to make the girls happy) but still very much a cheater. The MC also tends to say whatever an LI wants to hear, instead of being sincere, like the visit to the dinosaur museum with Jenna, just pretending to like things... not a fan of this at all.

I wonder if the story will explore this a bit more, maybe the MC will have an epiphany towards the end where he realizes he's in danger of becoming dad 2.0 and that this is what convinces him to stop the shenanigans and settle down with the LI(s) of his choice. I.e. I would prefer it if it's the MCs own decision (via the player) to commit to just one (or two/three) LIs instead of being pressured into it by the women. Just like you can decide to say "screw dad and his twisted will, to hell with the money, I choose love".
So much of that is also based on player input. You can be entirely faithful (even if the game is not meant to be played this way, in my opinion, it encourages you to pursue all characters). But as I said in an earlier post, focusing on only one or two major love interests will give you long stretches of just dialogue and zero action, in fact, if you don't pursue Monica and don't care for random eyecandy the entire carnival episode would be one huge borefest. I ignored Mabel (after quickly checking out what content that is I reloaded a save and then ignored her), it's a pity she's one of the more attractive character models in this game and that she's entirely wasted as a random distraction. An MC who goes on a date with Monica and jumps on Mabel is absolutely a sleazeball like the father. So it only makes sense to flirt with Mabel and have fun with her if most major LIs (especially Monica, Katie and Jenna) are just friends. Unless someone wants the MC to be a sociopath. Same with the neighbor who throws herself at the MC after the scene with Monica... But the good thing is... you always have a choice.

I believe there is some inner monologue where the MC at least admits he's an asshole if you pursue them all. So I think there is hope for him

 

[vifaloveyou]

Episode 22 was released in April, and now that it's almost August, can we look forward to the release date of Episode 23?

 

[felicemastronzo]

I thought the same... at several times it's pointed out how the father was a cheating bastard... and the MC is maybe somewhat less of a bastard (not as controlling or outright evil, he tries to make the girls happy) but still very much a cheater. The MC also tends to say whatever an LI wants to hear, instead of being sincere, like the visit to the dinosaur museum with Jenna, just pretending to like things... not a fan of this at all.

I wonder if the story will explore this a bit more, maybe the MC will have an epiphany towards the end where he realizes he's in danger of becoming dad 2.0 and that this is what convinces him to stop the shenanigans and settle down with the LI(s) of his choice. I.e. I would prefer it if it's the MCs own decision (via the player) to commit to just one (or two/three) LIs instead of being pressured into it by the women. Just like you can decide to say "screw dad and his twisted will, to hell with the money, I choose love".
So much of that is also based on player input. You can be entirely faithful (even if the game is not meant to be played this way, in my opinion, it encourages you to pursue all characters). But as I said in an earlier post, focusing on only one or two major love interests will give you long stretches of just dialogue and zero action, in fact, if you don't pursue Monica and don't care for random eyecandy the entire carnival episode would be one huge borefest. I ignored Mabel (after quickly checking out what content that is I reloaded a save and then ignored her), it's a pity she's one of the more attractive character models in this game and that she's entirely wasted as a random distraction. An MC who goes on a date with Monica and jumps on Mabel is absolutely a sleazeball like the father. So it only makes sense to flirt with Mabel and have fun with her if most major LIs (especially Monica, Katie and Jenna) are just friends. Unless someone wants the MC to be a sociopath. Same with the neighbor who throws herself at the MC after the scene with Monica... But the good thing is... you always have a choice.

I believe there is some inner monologue where the MC at least admits he's an asshole if you pursue them all. So I think there is hope for him

I don't understand your reasoning so much.... Mc does what we make him do, if at the museum the mere idea of dinosaurs gives you hives you can say so, you will lose a few RPs with Jenna, probably irrelevant, what's the big deal? but to say you like them would be to the worst lie you've told to a woman you were interested in? you got lucky...

small moments of crisis of conscience are already there in the story, when we can decide to close certain stories, it's up to the player to decide whether or not to listen to them

if you choose a righteous path, at that point there are very few temptations, a few complaints from the girls, but it tends to be that a closed road stays closed.

I like the fact that MC can also be a jerk if he wants to, with Elaine, with Monica, with Angel, with Jolina... pretty much with all of them
I like that at some point he can decide to go for the money and not give a damn about feelings. because being able to choose "badly" gives value to when you choose well

 

[Geralt_R]

I don't understand your reasoning so much....

All I am trying to say is... yes, there is a LOT of choice. You can be faithful, you can be nice, you can be a greedy bastard and I appreciate it all very much! The number of choices in the game is exemplary! Almost nothing is forced on the player. I mean, what other game gives you options for minor things like "dirty talk" or "no dirty talk" here and there? You can even affect how other characters speak (Katie).

BUT: the game (in my opinion only of course) still heavily encourages you to go after as many women as possible, and if you don't... you are penalized with a lack of content. It's not a major nitpick, it's just an observation and it's nothing that really annoys me, it's just a pet peeve.
I just generally feel most VNs would greatly benefit from fewer LIs and fewer random encounters and instead more fleshed out main LIs with more scenes. I feel you are encouraged to be the sleazeball and liar and that can make you feel uneasy eventually, which is of course also a sign of good writing, you feel uneasy because of the writing (since the game more or less has the characters behave in believable ways when they find out certain things, they are upset, hurt, devastated etc). But again, it's nothing super major, just an observation. I felt like the worst person in the world when Jo found out about the spyware and how the scene then unfolded. Again, it's more praise really than anything else of course.

The movie night scene when you try to romance all three of the women in the house is also utter insanity in a very fun way, if you like juggling chainsaws... but also highlights the fact what a complete ass the MC has become (or you, the player). And if you really manage to focus on just 1-3 characters... you miss out on so much. That is maybe only something for the 2nd playthrough. Who wants to play a game only to never see 70+% of the content? People play these games to see as much content as possible?

If you do it here... it can make you feel uneasy because the game is more realistic than the usual power fantasies. Which is absolutely not a bad thing, the opposite. But maybe a game (any game) shouldn't encourage the Pokemon approach then and make it a lot more satisfying to just go after 1-3 LIs? Instead you meet Mabel and Porsche (both very attractive, probably more attractive than most main characters), you have characters like Wanda and Angel which do nothing really for the main story (they are lots of fun of course, but not essential), you have the super thirsty neighbor, the religious nutjob Theresa etc. and because of the number of characters in the game there are long stretches where you will never interact with any of your favorite characters. If you also ignore Monica (to focus on the sisters) you get even less content. Who wants that from a pure gameplay perspective? So you will engage with them all in the end. Or most at least. Which in turn makes the MC an asshole. I ditched Monica before movie night (I reloaded), it was too much for me

If the writing was worse, if it was the stereotypical power fantasy with paper thin characters none of that would be of any concern, but since the characters are much better written than in many other games it does matter, I think.

About the points... you never know how many points you need for anything, you are absolutely encouraged to give the "best" reply with the most points, as in any other game with a points system. There is a tracker for the points for a reason. Especially early in the game on any path I would assume most people are concerned with maxing out points so you don't accidentally lock out a character or a scene, it doesn't matter as much later in the game when certain relationship statuses have been locked in. It's never revealed in the game how many points you need for anything or ff the points even matter at all.

 

[NakedSingularity]

so what are the chances of an incest patch?

already an incest/WT mod that rewrites the story/dialog to make incest work (mom isn't dead, just living in other house you move to with MC's 2 sisters). Too bad it's usually an episode behind the latest release (ep21 for now, won't work for ep22).

 

[Vannhh]

All I am trying to say is... yes, there is a LOT of choice. You can be faithful, you can be nice, you can be a greedy bastard and I appreciate it all very much! The number of choices in the game is exemplary! Almost nothing is forced on the player. I mean, what other game gives you options for minor things like "dirty talk" or "no dirty talk" here and there? You can even affect how other characters speak (Katie).

BUT: the game (in my opinion only of course) still heavily encourages you to go after as many women as possible, and if you don't... you are penalized with a lack of content. It's not a major nitpick, it's just an observation and it's nothing that really annoys me, it's just a pet peeve.

You mean like in real life? Where if you make it a numbers game you will get to go on more dates and experiences instead of just shooting your shot twice and maybe get nothing? And if you string lots of women along you will get shit eventually? Gasp!

I understand your complaint about the content, but honestly it's a bit of a moot point. More options means more replayability. I like that we have all these options. I like that the devs throw in subtle little changes along the way as well. It shows how dedicated they are to the game. I can't imagine keeping track of everything this far into the story.
Instead of banging everyone, having to actually choose carefully makes the interactions with the characters MUCH more impactful too, it puts them a peg above the characters of other games.

I honestly can't really think of anything I would like them to change. They have a pretty great formula and structure going on as it is.

 

[Geralt_R]

Instead of banging everyone, having to actually choose carefully makes the interactions with the characters MUCH more impactful too, it puts them a peg above the characters of other games.

This is certainly true. Almost all characters are much better written than in most other games I have played. As I mentioned before, that scene with Jo when she finds out about the software on her laptop and Jenna's snooping was pretty impactful.
Yet the game still eggs you on to go after all of them (for example via MC's inner monologue), maybe out of mischief so you see how things can blow up. Movie night was funny... but things can become nuclear very easily and then you feel like the complete idiot you are, because yes, the game does give you more than enough hints. The dialogue choices when Katie and Monica are both in your room (Monica in the bathroom) after movie night are hilarious, when the MC hopes this may be one of the situations with typical VN porn logic and a threesome is one of the dialogue options.

That being said, the game is generally very nice to players, you are provided with various exit points to break up and still keep things friendly, so once you realize that building a harem may be the worst idea ever, you can begin to focus on the characters you care about the most. I wonder how many do that or how many players still try to pursue almost everyone.

 

[acewinz]

This is certainly true. Almost all characters are much better written than in most other games I have played. As I mentioned before, that scene with Jo when she finds out about the software on her laptop and Jenna's snooping was pretty impactful.
Yet the game still eggs you on to go after all of them (for example via MC's inner monologue), maybe out of mischief so you see how things can blow up. Movie night was funny... but things can become nuclear very easily and then you feel like the complete idiot you are, because yes, the game does give you more than enough hints. The dialogue choices when Katie and Monica are both in your room (Monica in the bathroom) after movie night are hilarious, when the MC hopes this may be one of the situations with typical VN porn logic and a threesome is one of the dialogue options.

That being said, the game is generally very nice to players, you are provided with various exit points to break up and still keep things friendly, so once you realize that building a harem may be the worst idea ever, you can begin to focus on the characters you care about the most. I wonder how many do that or how many players still try to pursue almost everyone.

Hehe... To try and put your mind at ease. We and the MC are definitely not "trying" to get you into trouble, but that doesn't always mean what the MC thinks is a good idea, actually is. Definitely use your own judgement. But as far as egging you on to go after everyone... We did actually encourage that for the majority of the game for several reasons. The number 1 being it is the easiest way to see all the content and it was easy to dodge getting caught. Even so a lot of players had separate playthroughs because they saw what can happen if you get caught. We also have been sending a lot of signals now about starting to sort your relationships, or be ready for risk.

We also have provided a nice quickstart option for people who need it (or just want to see other content they avoided), as we are getting near the end... The player has to make some choices on who he really wants to end up with, or try and add multiples to his polyamory basket and hope it doesn't sour some of the other delicious girls inside. There are multi girl endings, but not all girls are down with that, and some may not be compatible together, some require a lot of work to convince, etc. Most of all, you can break some hearts, and even trying to make it work requires a bit of moral elasticity. lol

As for penalizing you for not going after everyone... well that is a bit of a glass half empty way of saying you want more content with the girls you prefer, but I'm afraid as I said before, we aren't a dating sim. We are telling a story, and some girls have more involvement in that than others. But I like to think when you consider that girls who were never more than side arcs/girls can still be endgame LI's (and have the content at present to allow that to be belieavable), well I think we gave a lot overall. Not many games have our amount of content or episodes, and none have our depth of choice, but I might be biased.

 

[snakeplisskin]

Hehe... To try and put your mind at ease. We and the MC are definitely not "trying" to get you into trouble, but that doesn't always mean what the MC thinks is a good idea, actually is. Definitely use your own judgement. But as far as egging you on to go after everyone... We did actually encourage that for the majority of the game for several reasons. The number 1 being it is the easiest way to see all the content and it was easy to dodge getting caught. Even so a lot of players had separate playthroughs because they saw what can happen if you get caught. We also have been sending a lot of signals now about starting to sort your relationships, or be ready for risk.

We also have provided a nice quickstart option for people who need it (or just want to see other content they avoided), as we are getting near the end... The player has to make some choices on who he really wants to end up with, or try and add multiples to his polyamory basket and hope it doesn't sour some of the other delicious girls inside. There are multi girl endings, but not all girls are down with that, and some may not be compatible together, some require a lot of work to convince, etc. Most of all, you can break some hearts, and even trying to make it work requires a bit of moral elasticity. lol

As for penalizing you for not going after everyone... well that is a bit of a glass half empty way of saying you want more content with the girls you prefer, but I'm afraid as I said before, we aren't a dating sim. We are telling a story, and some girls have more involvement in that than others. But I like to think when you consider that girls who were never more than side arcs/girls can still be endgame LI's (and have the content at present to allow that to be belieavable), well I think we gave a lot overall. Not many games have our amount of content or episodes, and none have our depth of choice, but I might be biased.

Which i greatly appriecate i only play as a manwhore at the beginning of games because i have no idea who anyone is yet. So i pursue eveyone to figure out who my solo routes will be once we get to know everyone.

 

[Vannhh]

As for penalizing you for not going after everyone... well that is a bit of a glass half empty way of saying you want more content with the girls you prefer, but I'm afraid as I said before, we aren't a dating sim. We are telling a story, and some girls have more involvement in that than others. But I like to think when you consider that girls who were never more than side arcs/girls can still be endgame LI's (and have the content at present to allow that to be belieavable), well I think we gave a lot overall. Not many games have our amount of content or episodes, and none have our depth of choice, but I might be biased.

Not biased at all. I'm all caught up with WTHI and trying some other titles now. The quality difference is staggering, from character design and writing to the amount of choices and even the writing quality of the story itself.

WTHI might not be a dating simulator, but by gawd do you guys do a better job with it than most of the full fledged DS I have played. Especially because you actually include side characters as LIs which caters to a majority of tastes.

Can't wait to see what you guys have up your sleeves next, for chapters as well as new titles when this story unfortunately reaches it's end.

 

[Geralt_R]

Not many games have our amount of content or episodes, and none have our depth of choice, but I might be biased.

This is not biased in my opinion. WTHI is exemplary when it comes to character depth and depth of choices. Nothing, literally nothing, is ever forced on the player. You can even screw all characters over and go for the money if you are a heartless psychopath like the dad

And though I moaned about the lack of content if you are on a true solo path, I do of course still very much appreciate the general approach, it's certainly a daunting task if you wanted to replay WTHI from scratch to explore other paths, that game is LONG. So giving players the option to pursue everyone up to a certain point is certainly the best choice from a pure gameplay perspective. And then you get hints that you may have to show some restraint. It's up to the player to pick up on those (very obvious) hints. I still laugh at seeing Monica barge in with her nurse costume while Katie is grinding on the MC. All the chainsaw juggling eventually resulted in a few lost limbs after all And still, it's easily remedied... And the episode quickstart is a real boon if you want to check out other paths before you return to your main savegame.