VN Ren'Py Where the Heart Is [S1 Rev1] [CheekyGimp]

[HornyyPussy]

It's only 2 month postponement.

That doesn't matter to some people.........facts are irrelevant to them.

 

[polycentric]

Hi folks,



I know this won't be a popular decision for some of you but I need to pause development of the final two episodes of WTHI for a couple of months so we can focus on a re-do of the earlier episodes. This is not a decision I am taking lightly and I've mulled this over for the past few months. The re-do is not just an upgrade of the early episode art, it will be a full script overhaul of ALL of the earlier episodes (removing some scenes, adding some new ones, editing some scenes and extending some scenes) in addition to re-doing all of the art and adding animations. Why not finish WTHI first and then start on the re-do? (Fair question). Here's why...

As most of you know, I have a real-life job in addition to working on WTHI. For the first four years of working on WTHI, I used to do the equivalent of working two full time jobs where I would work my normal job Mon-Fri and also squeeze in 40-60 hours of WTHI per week ( 4-5 hours Mon-thur evenings, an all-nighter on Friday and then as many hours as possible on Sat-Sun).

But after four years, that was no longer sustainable (was burning me out) so what I have been doing recently is alternating my time between my real-life job and WTHI by taking unpaid leave from my job (either a couple of days a week, a couple of weeks a month or more recently, I have taken a whole month off work to concentrate on WTHI). When I'm working WTHI only, I can easily squeeze in 60 hrs per week. But when I'm working my real-life job, I can only manage about 20-25 hours per week on WTHI. And Cell (our long suffering artist) is continously churning out 50+ hour weeks. I thought we could keep this set-up going until I finish WTHI completely but I cannot. To finish the game properly (without cutting corners and ensuring we give each character the ending they deserve), I estimate there is at least 6 months work left (to complete EP24 and EP25) plus I want to do an epilogue scene for each character (or group of characters), so there's still many months of work needed to complete WTHI fully. I was hoping to get it all done by the end of this year with the current system of alternating between unpaid time-off from my real-life job but I can't.

Currently, WTHI requires over 100 hours per week spread across Cell and I. After Patreon costs, transfer fees and all the other outgoings associated with game development, this means that working on WTHI actually pays Cell and I less than minimum wage per hour (based on where we live). So continously taking unpaid leave from my real-life (decent-paying) job to earn minimum wage is just not sustainable for the rest of this year.

So, the current plan is to increase the audience/income for WTHI by releasing on Steam. If all goes to plan, the extra income from Steam will give me more financial wiggle-room to take more unpaid time-off from work to focus on WTHI. So, although it means a lack of progress on new episodes in the short-term, it is the best decision for the overall completion of the game.

In order to get onto steam, we have to re-do the earlier episodes, because they are just not up to scratch. So the current plan is to spend the next two months working on a re-do of episodes 1-10 (Season 1) and release on Steam. And obviously we will also release the new upgraded game on patreon too. And once Season 1 is complete, we can then switch our focus back to current episodes and complete and release Episode 24.

I know some people have been clamoring for a rework, while many others would prefer that we just finished the game before going back and re-doing but in the long-run (and based on my personal circumstances) this is the best approach for the overall completion of the game and to keep the quality high. So, for any of you that have been asking for a rework of earlier episodes, it is coming. For any of you that have zero interest in a re-do and only want the new episodes, then consider this a two-month postponement of the new episodes. And for those in the zero interest category, I fully understand if you drop/cancel your pledge.

As always, please ask any questions or add any inputs/comments in the comments section below or feel free to DM me directly.



Thanks,

CG

This sounds utterly reasonable to me; something that started as a hobby project has become an albatross around his neck and he needs to change that.

My solution, and the solution of many people, would be to walk away from it. I have a family that I work hard to keep happy and healthy and, make no mistake, I would drop this like a hot rock if it negatively impacted them.

I think that the majority of people here are reasonable but I'm sure that there are going to be a bunch of armchair quarterbacks that are going to provide free 'advice' to Cheeky and tell him how to manage this project and his life in general. Please - give it a rest. No-one likes delays but equally no-one is going to die if WTHI is delayed.

Maybe, just maybe, we can just skip the whole milking/bad dev/fraud thing and do something more productive, which is literally anything else.

 

[botc76]

It's only 2 month postponement.

First off, don't get me wrong, I do not think that Cheeky isn't completely honest, it's also not that I don't understand the financial aspects, Cell and Cheeky need money to live, just like we all do. He's not a milker, never will be.
I've just seen this scene played out too many times to have a lot of hope left, after reading this.

2 months, that's how it starts. Then it doesn't work quite as it should, then perhaps their ambitions for the first part of the game grow even bigger, then frustration sets in, because in the end you are not doing anything new, just retreading what you already did, throw in some unforeseen complications and then the burnout comes inevitably, and the project is first further and further delayed, then abandoned.

And even if everything works out perfectly, how would 2 months be enough to rework 10 fucking episodes? That's never gonna cut it.

No, this game is very likely done for, and it breaks my heart. Cheeky was so smart for so long, not to fall into the trap of reworking your game before finishing it, something that has led to dozens of games being abandoned.
I cannot think of a single game that had major reworks of the earlier parts and has actually been finished.
Yes, some games might still go there, Timestamps for example might actually be able to finish despite reworking part 1 for the steam release (in this case part one was actually already finished, they didn't go back, mid-work and started it all over again), but even then that would be like one game against 40-50 games that either stopped development completely after starting a rework/remake/overhaul or where the dev got caught in the trap of going back to rework the rework or suddenly finding that if the first part gets a re-work, the rest needs one as well, which will most likely also lead to a burnout and then abandonment.

Fuck! And the finish line was in fucking sight. Two more fucking chapters, and it would have been done. Then Ace leaves and now this.
I hate this so much, I can't believe this is happening.

 

[Deleted member 5302157]

i hope he can release single episode rather then whole 10 episode at once and the rework having different scenes would be nice too

 

[Seekeros]

```
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
File "game/script.rpy", line 520, in script
if persistent.ph_advstart_ep >= 2:
File "game/script.rpy", line 520, in <module>
if persistent.ph_advstart_ep >= 2:
TypeError: '>=' not supported between instances of 'NoneType' and 'int'

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
File "game/script.rpy", line 520, in script
if persistent.ph_advstart_ep >= 2:
File "C:\Users\rayan\Documents\WhereTheHeartIs-Ep23-pc\renpy\ast.py", line 2115, in execute
if renpy.python.py_eval(condition):
File "C:\Users\rayan\Documents\WhereTheHeartIs-Ep23-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1092, in py_eval
return py_eval_bytecode(code, globals, locals)
File "C:\Users\rayan\Documents\WhereTheHeartIs-Ep23-pc\renpy\python.py", line 1085, in py_eval_bytecode
return eval(bytecode, globals, locals)
File "game/script.rpy", line 520, in <module>
if persistent.ph_advstart_ep >= 2:
TypeError: '>=' not supported between instances of 'NoneType' and 'int'

Windows-10-10.0.22621 AMD64
Ren'Py 8.0.3.22090809
Where The Heart Is Ep23
Wed Feb 15 17:44:05 2023
```





Help?

keep clicking ignore in the bottom, it will eventually work

 

[ZoneIT]

I knew something was bad from all the delays in the past...Seem like he read the book of the western porn developer.

Delay, Excuse, Censor critic, Burn out, Remake when almost done.
These are the ingredient of a western porn dev

Only on wester porn games do you see projects that take 5+ to complete a visual novel-type game.
To give an example.. one man made stardew valley in 4 years
And you can look up other indie games' development time you will be surprised...and most of them did not have Patreon backers to help them live the good life

Milking is the disease that all of them suffer.

Begger of the net approves your decision
CheekyGimp

 

[polycentric]

I struggling to understand this negativity - he's released 23 episodes in roughly 5 years. That's better than a release per quarter and that sure doesn't look like 'milking' to me.

I want answers to the plot lines in this game as much as next person but if CG needs to rework this for a broader audience then so be it.

 

[jamdan]

I don't have a problem with reworking it. They've , for the most part, been consistent. Only longer delays for when IRL issues get in the way, and whenever that clears up, the updates become regular again. Saying Cheeky is "milking" is braindead. Comments like that show that no developer, no matter who they are, will get hit by the "milking" train eventually. I've even saw Dr.Pinkcake be accused of milking. So, that word has no meaning since it's flung at any and every developer at one point or another.

But I do think they should finish the last 2 update before reworking the first 10. I get that making, as far as hourly wage goes, next to nothing is hard, but I don't think they need to work as much as they've been doing. Even if that means the updates take a while to complete.

There are popular developers (like Naughtyroad) that release 1 update per year and another popular developer (MrJet) just took a year to complete the final update of their game too. You don't need to finish the final 2 episodes in 6 months. You can finish both episodes in the next 12months. After that is done, rework the first 10 episodes. Release that on steam. And then release the rest of the game on Steam. And finally, release epilogues as DLC.

 

[Tumblingjoint]

Somber news for what I consider the best game on this site. A rework generally is a red flag for the future development of a game.

But. This game in particular has continually exceeded expectations I set for it, so here's hoping for that to be the case once again.

 

[JackMiejov]

I'm disappointed that the game will be delayed, but happy that I can buy the game on Steam and ditch Patreon.

 

[hcguy]

The irony of people on a pirate site blaming a developer for making decisions because he needs to improve his income stream is mind-blowing.

 

[keefer43]

Hi folks,



I know this won't be a popular decision for some of you but I need to pause development of the final two episodes of WTHI for a couple of months so we can focus on a re-do of the earlier episodes. This is not a decision I am taking lightly and I've mulled this over for the past few months. The re-do is not just an upgrade of the early episode art, it will be a full script overhaul of ALL of the earlier episodes (removing some scenes, adding some new ones, editing some scenes and extending some scenes) in addition to re-doing all of the art and adding animations. Why not finish WTHI first and then start on the re-do? (Fair question). Here's why...

As most of you know, I have a real-life job in addition to working on WTHI. For the first four years of working on WTHI, I used to do the equivalent of working two full time jobs where I would work my normal job Mon-Fri and also squeeze in 40-60 hours of WTHI per week ( 4-5 hours Mon-thur evenings, an all-nighter on Friday and then as many hours as possible on Sat-Sun).

But after four years, that was no longer sustainable (was burning me out) so what I have been doing recently is alternating my time between my real-life job and WTHI by taking unpaid leave from my job (either a couple of days a week, a couple of weeks a month or more recently, I have taken a whole month off work to concentrate on WTHI). When I'm working WTHI only, I can easily squeeze in 60 hrs per week. But when I'm working my real-life job, I can only manage about 20-25 hours per week on WTHI. And Cell (our long suffering artist) is continously churning out 50+ hour weeks. I thought we could keep this set-up going until I finish WTHI completely but I cannot. To finish the game properly (without cutting corners and ensuring we give each character the ending they deserve), I estimate there is at least 6 months work left (to complete EP24 and EP25) plus I want to do an epilogue scene for each character (or group of characters), so there's still many months of work needed to complete WTHI fully. I was hoping to get it all done by the end of this year with the current system of alternating between unpaid time-off from my real-life job but I can't.

Currently, WTHI requires over 100 hours per week spread across Cell and I. After Patreon costs, transfer fees and all the other outgoings associated with game development, this means that working on WTHI actually pays Cell and I less than minimum wage per hour (based on where we live). So continously taking unpaid leave from my real-life (decent-paying) job to earn minimum wage is just not sustainable for the rest of this year.

So, the current plan is to increase the audience/income for WTHI by releasing on Steam. If all goes to plan, the extra income from Steam will give me more financial wiggle-room to take more unpaid time-off from work to focus on WTHI. So, although it means a lack of progress on new episodes in the short-term, it is the best decision for the overall completion of the game.

In order to get onto steam, we have to re-do the earlier episodes, because they are just not up to scratch. So the current plan is to spend the next two months working on a re-do of episodes 1-10 (Season 1) and release on Steam. And obviously we will also release the new upgraded game on patreon too. And once Season 1 is complete, we can then switch our focus back to current episodes and complete and release Episode 24.

I know some people have been clamoring for a rework, while many others would prefer that we just finished the game before going back and re-doing but in the long-run (and based on my personal circumstances) this is the best approach for the overall completion of the game and to keep the quality high. So, for any of you that have been asking for a rework of earlier episodes, it is coming. For any of you that have zero interest in a re-do and only want the new episodes, then consider this a two-month postponement of the new episodes. And for those in the zero interest category, I fully understand if you drop/cancel your pledge.

As always, please ask any questions or add any inputs/comments in the comments section below or feel free to DM me directly.



Thanks,

CG

Do what is needed for you - get that done, and come back to WTHI. We know you (your track record is older than some posting on this thread) and we understand. You are telling us beforehand what is happening, so kudos for being forthright and honest. Keep the flame burning and we'll see you soon. 2 months is nothing, not in the big picture.

 

[BigTyson]

I think it is perfectly reasonable for Cheeky to start the rework now. Remeber, the team lost Ace and that is huge blow to writing portion of the game. I think the rework will give Cheeky time to figure out how they want to finish up the story, and give him a better picture on how he wants the narrative to wrap up

 

[BillyPlums]

I wonder how many people here complaining about this small schedule adjustment are working 100 hours/week between (technically) two full time jobs? Further still, how many are actually patrons, and not simply flying the jolly roger?

I, for one, am a pseudo Patron, donating $1.50 CA per month. I am excited about what Cheeky is doing, giving him my compete support, and won't even mind if he doesn't shut down his Patreon for the two months or however long it takes him to get his vision right.

 

[botc76]

The irony of people on a pirate site blaming a developer for making decisions because he needs to improve his income stream is mind-blowing.

Either there are a lot of people posting which I have on ignore, or there were like one or two people complaining. One of which was just doing the usual "all devs are milkers" spill.
Everyone else was either completely accepting the decision or even welcoming it, or was just expressing concern.
Expressing concern over the amount of games where the dev made a similar decision, which were then abandoned, does not mean blaming the dev for anything. It means being concerned that a rework might lead to an abandoned game as supported by past experiences, nothing more.
In addition, the people actually BLAMING Cheeky for anything don't BELIEVE his reasons, because they think he is lying anyway. So for them, it isn't about whether he needs to improve his income or not.

And let's not forget that many of us here are supporters of the game, often for a very, very long time. Am I okay, with expressing concern, with fearing for how this will play out, because I have the second ever (and very positive) review for the game, IIRC the patreon wasn't even up then, or because I've been a supporter on patron for years?

Sorry, if this might not have been directed at mine or similar posts, but I have a problem with the "this is a pirate site" approach.
It is not like this being a pirate site disqualifies any opinion expressed here. It never does, and this approach really is just an excuse to dismiss any form of criticism as worthless, without actually making any factual points that disqualify the criticism.
Criticism is either qualified or fair, or it is unqualified and unfair. Neither actually depends on WHO is making the criticism, unless there is a personal connection that makes the criticism completely biased, like a personal antipathy towards the target of the criticism.
There are valid reasons to dismiss arguments that Cheeky is a milker or that he is lying, use those.

 

[ename144]

Hi folks,



I know this won't be a popular decision for some of you but I need to pause development of the final two episodes of WTHI for a couple of months so we can focus on a re-do of the earlier episodes. This is not a decision I am taking lightly and I've mulled this over for the past few months. The re-do is not just an upgrade of the early episode art, it will be a full script overhaul of ALL of the earlier episodes (removing some scenes, adding some new ones, editing some scenes and extending some scenes) in addition to re-doing all of the art and adding animations. Why not finish WTHI first and then start on the re-do? (Fair question). Here's why...

As most of you know, I have a real-life job in addition to working on WTHI. For the first four years of working on WTHI, I used to do the equivalent of working two full time jobs where I would work my normal job Mon-Fri and also squeeze in 40-60 hours of WTHI per week ( 4-5 hours Mon-thur evenings, an all-nighter on Friday and then as many hours as possible on Sat-Sun).

But after four years, that was no longer sustainable (was burning me out) so what I have been doing recently is alternating my time between my real-life job and WTHI by taking unpaid leave from my job (either a couple of days a week, a couple of weeks a month or more recently, I have taken a whole month off work to concentrate on WTHI). When I'm working WTHI only, I can easily squeeze in 60 hrs per week. But when I'm working my real-life job, I can only manage about 20-25 hours per week on WTHI. And Cell (our long suffering artist) is continously churning out 50+ hour weeks. I thought we could keep this set-up going until I finish WTHI completely but I cannot. To finish the game properly (without cutting corners and ensuring we give each character the ending they deserve), I estimate there is at least 6 months work left (to complete EP24 and EP25) plus I want to do an epilogue scene for each character (or group of characters), so there's still many months of work needed to complete WTHI fully. I was hoping to get it all done by the end of this year with the current system of alternating between unpaid time-off from my real-life job but I can't.

Currently, WTHI requires over 100 hours per week spread across Cell and I. After Patreon costs, transfer fees and all the other outgoings associated with game development, this means that working on WTHI actually pays Cell and I less than minimum wage per hour (based on where we live). So continously taking unpaid leave from my real-life (decent-paying) job to earn minimum wage is just not sustainable for the rest of this year.

So, the current plan is to increase the audience/income for WTHI by releasing on Steam. If all goes to plan, the extra income from Steam will give me more financial wiggle-room to take more unpaid time-off from work to focus on WTHI. So, although it means a lack of progress on new episodes in the short-term, it is the best decision for the overall completion of the game.

In order to get onto steam, we have to re-do the earlier episodes, because they are just not up to scratch. So the current plan is to spend the next two months working on a re-do of episodes 1-10 (Season 1) and release on Steam. And obviously we will also release the new upgraded game on patreon too. And once Season 1 is complete, we can then switch our focus back to current episodes and complete and release Episode 24.

I know some people have been clamoring for a rework, while many others would prefer that we just finished the game before going back and re-doing but in the long-run (and based on my personal circumstances) this is the best approach for the overall completion of the game and to keep the quality high. So, for any of you that have been asking for a rework of earlier episodes, it is coming. For any of you that have zero interest in a re-do and only want the new episodes, then consider this a two-month postponement of the new episodes. And for those in the zero interest category, I fully understand if you drop/cancel your pledge.

As always, please ask any questions or add any inputs/comments in the comments section below or feel free to DM me directly.



Thanks,

CG

I can't say I'm surprised that the schedule has slipped, but put me in the camp that finds the announcement devastating. I understand and respect Cheeky's thought process, but I don't think it's going to play out the way he hopes. The work required to overhaul a game as long and complex as WtHI is significant. I'm sure Cheeky is sincere in his plans to limit the rework through Chapter 10, but it's going to be very difficult to stick to that when the time comes and he realizes the changes he wants to make won't quite mesh with the old game - especially when he's saddled with the ever-present burden of making sure the game puts its best foot forward to maximize the benefit of this whole gamble. And the longer it takes to get the game launched on Steam, the more he'll feel pressureed to push himself hard if and when he can return to Episode 24. That means there's a distinct risk we'll find ourselves right back in the same unsustainable situation we are now, just many months behind schedule.

Personally, I'd have preferred if Cheeky had simply cut back his working hours to a sustainable level and kept plugging away at Episode 24 in bits and pieces, even if it took the rest of the year to finish it. Slow progress towards a fixed goal feels like a better bet than banking everything on the siren's call of a quick fix. As they say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Well, what's done is done. Nothing to do now but hope for the best. Please prove me wrong, Cheeky!

 

[hcguy]

Either there are a lot of people posting which I have on ignore, or there were like one or two people complaining. One of which was just doing the usual "all devs are milkers" spill.

I said nothing about how many people were doing it.

And let's not forget that many of us here are supporters of the game, often for a very, very long time.

Obviously if someone is actually financially supporting the developer, he or she has some grounds for commenting. People stealing the game here - not so much

Sorry, if this might not have been directed at mine or similar posts, but I have a problem with the "this is a pirate site" approach.
It is not like this being a pirate site disqualifies any opinion expressed here.

I disagree - if someone is stealing the game here, then comments on the financial decisions of the developer are, frankly, bullshit, since those people are part of the problem the developer is facing. If someone who is stealing the game has comments about the quality of the game, that's a different story, although they should have no expectation the developer will care about their opinions.

 

[Snugglepuff]

Obviously if someone is actually financially supporting the developer, he or she has some grounds for commenting. People stealing the game here - not so much

Financially supporting a dev, be they good ones or bad, is entirely irrelevant when it comes to criticising (constructively or otherwise) a dev or their project.
The only time our own financial investment matters in that regard, is if we're calling a dev a milker/scammer etc. At that point, people who have not/do not provide financial support to the project, are just being obnoxious hypocrites and deserve to be called out on it when it's clear they're just parroting the same crap on no, or next-to-no basis.

 

[mmmonsterkill]

I disagree - if someone is stealing the game here, then comments on the financial decisions of the developer are, frankly, bullshit, since those people are part of the problem the developer is facing. If someone who is stealing the game has comments about the quality of the game, that's a different story, although they should have no expectation the developer will care about their opinions.

i mean depends. i for instance am gonna buy it if/when it shows up on steam or simmular, and i think alot of people here have simmular thoughts so us saying a serious delay in doing so might be counter productive is not bullshit. also even games i buy i still download from here cuz fucking steam likes to tell everyone just how many hours i spend on porn games

 

[milos1fan]

No way it'll be done in two months. Has he ever released an update in the first time frame he's given? He said he'll also be creating new scenes and what not. How many continuity errors will he have to fix?Will he ever be happy with his "fixes" or will he keep "fixing" the series until he's tired of it like George Lucas?