VN Ren'Py Where the Heart Is [S1 Rev1] [CheekyGimp]

[Ranting Old Man]

Spoiler: Jolina is a lesbian and likes Jenna

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So There's a bit of information here that suggests that Jenna and Jolina are closer than everyone thinks.

Spoiler: Jolina's a Lesbian Clues

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Jolina constantly refers to her hatred of men and I wouldn't doubt that she only asked to apologize to MC as a means of keeping communication opened up with Jenna. She clearly speaks of the troubles of being a lesbian as if she is very familiar with it. Any time you ask her about her interests in women she dodges you and she has spent time with Jenna on multiple occasions without your presence.

This all is evidence without the famous "PC" Image.

This is largely why I feel as though Cleo's prophecies are so vague in comparison to what she admits is normal. Each one of her prophecies has a double meaning. I believe that it doesn't just refer to Katie and Debbie but also Jenna and Jolina.

Thanks for entertaining my thoughts. =)

 

[Maviarab]

Spoiler: Jolina is a lesbian and likes Jenna

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So There's a bit of information here that suggests that Jenna and Jolina are closer than everyone thinks.

Spoiler: Jolina's a Lesbian Clues

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Jolina constantly refers to her hatred of men and I wouldn't doubt that she only asked to apologize to MC as a means of keeping communication opened up with Jenna. She clearly speaks of the troubles of being a lesbian as if she is very familiar with it. Any time you ask her about her interests in women she dodges you and she has spent time with Jenna on multiple occasions without your presence.

This all is evidence without the famous "PC" Image.

This is largely why I feel as though Cleo's prophecies are so vague in comparison to what she admits is normal. Each one of her prophecies has a double meaning. I believe that it doesn't just refer to Katie and Debbie but also Jenna and Jolina.

Thanks for entertaining my thoughts. =)

No evidence there at all sorry. You keep coming up with this stuff but it's all supposition.

Ask any woman about her history with men...and it will make you wonder why any of them bother with us at all. Nothing she says suggest she either hates men or indicates she is a lesbian.

Assumed sister as good looking as Jenna. Aaaannd? She can't comment another woman is attractive?
Jenna more in common with Jolina. Both nerdy, wiz with computers etc. Then laughs. She teasing you.
Cozying up together. Again..just teasing you. Besides, women are much closer to each other than men are. Anyone knows that.
Don't do men/boyfriends. Could be taken any number of ways. Maybe she doesn't want a relationship with a guy, just likes no-strings. I know many straight wpomen who don't do boyfriends myself.
Long time since successful date. Yeah well..see my previous comment, too many men are idiotic imbeciles who wouldn't know how to treat a woman properly if the manual was tattoed on their ass.
Thanks for restoring faith. Again...see last comment re many men and many womens experiences.
I told you I don't like men. Many women claim to be gay to avoid men getting ahead of themselves. Hell, very popular girl on a game right here on F95 said the same thing....
Difficult for same sex couples these days. Umm...are only gay people allowed to express such a statement?
Care more about you than I expected. Well again, we're not old..she has bad experiences...and it's been a few weeks. Not a difficult one to understand either.

Jolina isn't invited to the beach house either. That is key as that is all part of the same speech from Cleo which much more strongly suggests, this refers to Debbie and not Jolina. Again, as I stated earlier today in a previous post, whether this actually means anything or is just a statement on your life (Cleo makes a few of those) is another matter I guess.

Now, it perhaps does look that way should you choose to view it that way, I don't. Half of what she says is said with jokes and the rest just bad experiences. That's not to say she doesn't swing both ways, much like Bella might (though Bella's off-hand comment can be taken multiple ways, women do taste themselves) but nothing Jolina says can be taken as evidence of anything, all insubstantial evidence at best.

 

[Cigar-Ferras]

This is largely why I feel as though Cleo's prophecies are so vague in comparison to what she admits is normal. Each one of her prophecies has a double meaning. I believe that it doesn't just refer to Katie and Debbie but also Jenna and Jolina.

Spoiler: Yippie-kay-yay

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I jest, good post. Still nothing concrete though.

 

[Ranting Old Man]

No evidence there at all sorry. You keep coming up with this stuff but it's all supposition.

Ask any woman about her history with men...and it will make you wonder why any of them bother with us at all. Nothing she says suggest she either hates men or indicates she is a lesbian.

It does should you choose to view it that way, I don't. Half of what she says is said with jokes and the rest just bad experiences. That's not to say she doesn't swing both ways, much like Bella might (though Bella's off-hand comment can be taken multiple ways, women do taste themselves) but nothing Jolina says can be taken as evidence of anything, all insubstantial evidence at best.

Because the game is left with vagueness to throw players off and keep them guessing.
I'm exploring all avenues and like it or not this is evidence. I'll admit, like you said is open to interpretation.

Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an

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, because evident things are undoubted. There are two kind of evidence: intellectual evidence (the obvious, the evident) and

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(proofs).

The mentioned support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct

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of the

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of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in

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.

I'm okay with you choosing to not see things the way I do because I'm a Theorists, there are a lot of good chances I could be wrong on many things. But for me it's less about being right or wrong and more about the joy of searching for the clues.

Some people like yourself prefer to go off of nothing more than raw facts. That's fine too. I just prefer gathering clues and building assumptions or theories based on where the clues lead. This is what makes this game so much fun to me. I haven't played another game on F95 that has peaked my curiosity enough to get me Theory crafting with the exception of The DeLuca Family.

So it's fine my man. It's actually good that you present an alternative view actually. Keeps things balanced. =)

 

[freedom.call]

Well, there you go.

 

[DorcasAurelia]

Finally got around to the latest update and then slogged through 80 pages of discussion, only to find that any possible answers to the central mysteries of the game are more muddled before. Which is pretty much the expectation at this point: any new clues provided in the updates are so vague as to be useless (pretty much everything the fortune teller said), or only expand the list of potential suspects (Zarah was previously involved with a guy who turned out to be an asshole, could she be Dizzy?). While all the red herrings do encourage speculation and engagement, when all is revealed will the explanations be satisfying and provide clarity in a replay, or will they feel hollow because they only exist to ensure the reveal is a surprise?

 

[Ranting Old Man]

Finally got around to the latest update and then slogged through 80 pages of discussion, only to find that any possible answers to the central mysteries of the game are more muddled before. Which is pretty much the expectation at this point: any new clues provided in the updates are so vague as to be useless (pretty much everything the fortune teller said), or only expand the list of potential suspects (Zarah was previously involved with a guy who turned out to be an asshole, could she be Dizzy?). While all the red herrings do encourage speculation and engagement, when all is revealed will the explanations be satisfying and provide clarity in a replay, or will they feel hollow because they only exist to ensure the reveal is a surprise?

I don't believe they will leave us disappointed.

 

[ShadowThrone]

i just play episode18. If you don't care about Monica, it's very short... only the fortune-teller could give some hints or more doubts... who are the sisters (Katie-Jenna or Elaine-Bella?) who's the blonde one (Debbie, Jolina or Tereza ?).

As for blonde one...if you read all the dialogue, it can only point to Debbie.

The sister has introduced someone else into your life. A pretty blonde. She is getting close to you but she's closer to the sister still.
The blonde likes you...but she has a preference for women...They leave passing images of the sister and her blonde...I see a will, a key and a house beside the sea.

The questions more is, is that actually a relevent piece of information, or just Cleo's amblings about your life.

Half of what she tells you is not important to what is actually happening/going to happen/the will...it's just general 'insights' from her about your life in general.

From talking with Katie :

Spoiler

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[Maviarab]

Because the game is left with vagueness to throw players off and keep them guessing.
I'm exploring all avenues and like it or not this is evidence. I'll admit, like you said is open to interpretation.

Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

, because evident things are undoubted. There are two kind of evidence: intellectual evidence (the obvious, the evident) and

You must be registered to see the links

(proofs).

The mentioned support may be strong or weak. The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct

You must be registered to see the links

of the

You must be registered to see the links

of an assertion. At the other extreme is evidence that is merely consistent with an assertion but does not rule out other, contradictory assertions, as in

You must be registered to see the links

.

I'm okay with you choosing to not see things the way I do because I'm a Theorists, there are a lot of good chances I could be wrong on many things. But for me it's less about being right or wrong and more about the joy of searching for the clues.

Some people like yourself prefer to go off of nothing more than raw facts. That's fine too. I just prefer gathering clues and building assumptions or theories based on where the clues lead. This is what makes this game so much fun to me. I haven't played another game on F95 that has peaked my curiosity enough to get me Theory crafting with the exception of The DeLuca Family.

So it's fine my man. It's actually good that you present an alternative view actually. Keeps things balanced. =)

I've spent a lot of time in court. Sorry, but assumption, circumstantial (which is inadmissabale btw) and 'opinion' pretty much mean FA. Again, as I've said to you before (so maybe how you write your post is the problem with my understanding) it's not that I see things different to you neccessarily, I just don't take it as truth of 'evidence' of anything, because it isn't. You've said it yourself, it's vague and can be taken multiple ways. Which ultimately means it's utterly meaningless in context. No proof or evidence of anything. Throw Wiki at me all day mate though if you like.

From talking with Katie :

Spoiler

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I know...this is after Cleo's convo though and nothing to do with what slayer was rambling on about. However yes I completely agree, this is more definite pointer to Debbie being the blonde who Cleo was talking about. 100% in agreement.

Again, is this a matter of fact satement from her again (much like she knows plenty of facts about us), or is there a deeper meaning behind this and if so, what?

 

[Ranting Old Man]

Assumed sister as good looking as Jenna. Aaaannd? She can't comment another woman is attractive?

You missed the point here. My references is to the fact that Jenna has spent more time with Jolina according to Jolina and they have clearly had more indepth conversations other than just about the MC. I guess I actually wasn't looking at the attractive bit

Jolina isn't invited to the beach house either. That is key as that is all part of the same speech from Cleo which much more strongly suggests, this refers to Debbie and not Jolina. Again, as I stated earlier today in a previous post, whether this actually means anything or is just a statement on your life (Cleo makes a few of those) is another matter I guess.

That is also an interpretation. Viewing it all connected at the seem could imply Debbie and Katie have something to do with the Will as the Will is also mentioned in that moment. I view this as weak signals which is another thing Cleo mentioned.

"Shush! The spirits are leaving us.... They leave passing images (admittance of a weak signal) of the sister and her blonde.... I see a will (So far Debbie hasn't had any connection to the will), a key and a house beside the sea.
She will be coming to the beach soon (Note the clue is beach not beach house), I think?
You know who I speak of? It might not seem much to you yet as the chess pieces are still in play with a Plot within a plot (like a plot of Jolina's to punish Jenna for their plot that used Jolina to find out who the mysterious emailer is)"

So at this point my question becomes what is the plot within a plot? If you aren't helping Debbie with Lily or attempting a foursome which are both optional. That removes plotting from the 4 of them unless we learn something new in Episode 19.

Also inviting Jolina to the beach house is optional on a Jolina romance playthrough. Meaning I still believe that there is a double meaning and "so many paths" is the reason why the double meanings. You can elect not to do some things and elect to do others. Making a double meaning for the prophecies to be able to stretch out and fit any of the many options that you as the MC have available. At least that's how I see it.

 

[ShadowThrone]

You missed the point here. My references is to the fact that Jenna has spent more time with Jolina according to Jolina and they have clearly had more indepth conversations other than just about the MC. I guess I actually wasn't looking at the attractive bit



That is also an interpretation. Viewing it all connected at the seem could imply Debbie and Katie have something to do with the Will as the Will is also mentioned in that moment. I view this as weak signals which is another thing Cleo mentioned.

"Shush! The spirits are leaving us.... They leave passing images (admittance of a weak signal) of the sister and her blonde.... I see a will (So far Debbie hasn't had any connection to the will), a key and a house beside the sea.
She will be coming to the beach soon (Note the clue is beach not beach house), I think?
You know who I speak of? It might not seem much to you yet as the chess pieces are still in play with a Plot within a plot (like a plot of Jolina's to punish Jenna for their plot that used Jolina to find out who the mysterious emailer is)"

So at this point my question becomes what is the plot within a plot? If you aren't helping Debbie with Lily or attempting a foursome which are both optional. That removes plotting from the 4 of them unless we learn something new in Episode 19.

Also inviting Jolina to the beach house is optional on a Jolina romance playthrough. Meaning I still believe that there is a double meaning and "so many paths" is the reason why the double meanings. You can elect not to do some things and elect to do others. Making a double meaning for the prophecies to be able to stretch out and fit any of the many options that you as the MC have available. At least that's how I see it.

FT "The sister has introduced someone else into your life. A pretty blonde. She is getting close to you but she's closer to the sister still."
FT "The blonde likes you...but she has a preference for women..."
M "One of the girls' friends? Who...?"
FT "Shush! The spirits are leaving us...They leave passing images of the sister and her blonde... I see a will, a key and a house beside the sea."
FT "She'll be coming to the beach soon, I think?"

This can be taken multiple ways, but Katie has been to the house and is about to go back there, you tell her where the key is, and she is indirectly involved in the will (you can not have contact with her if you want the money)
I am reading that the three things are to do with the sister and not the blonde.

 

[Maviarab]

FT "The sister has introduced someone else into your life. A pretty blonde. She is getting close to you but she's closer to the sister still."
FT "The blonde likes you...but she has a preference for women..."
M "One of the girls' friends? Who...?"
FT "Shush! The spirits are leaving us...They leave passing images of the sister and her blonde... I see a will, a key and a house beside the sea."
FT "She'll be coming to the beach soon, I think?"

This can be taken multiple ways, but Katie has been to the house and is about to go back there, you tell her where the key is, and she is indirectly involved in the will (you can not have contact with her if you want the money)
I am reading that the three things are to do with the sister and not the blonde.

That is certainly a possibility for sure...misdirection on the blonde (Debbie) meaning something or not rather than who the blonde is with (Katie).

Hmmm....interesting angle.

 

[freedom.call]

Could be Katie and Debbie, could be Jenna and Jolina and at a long stretch could be Bella and Jolina.

 

[Cigar-Ferras]

I am reading that the three things are to do with the sister and not the blonde.

That is certainly a possibility for sure...misdirection on the blonde (Debbie) meaning something or not rather than who the blonde is with (Katie).

Hmmm....interesting angle

Could be Katie and Debbie, could be Jenna and Jolina and at a long stretch could be Bella and Jolina.

Good points. It's almost like it's set up so we don't know which way to go .... Madness!

 

[Maviarab]

Good points. It's almost like it's set up so we don't know which way to go .... Madness!

That would be a bit of a Cheeky Ace in the hole thing to do...I blame those pesky kids!

 

[ShadowThrone]

Could be Katie and Debbie, could be Jenna and Jolina and at a long stretch could be Bella and Jolina.

I am not sure how it could be Jenna and Jolina (unless they have been meeting and not telling you)

"The sister has introduced someone else into your life. A pretty blonde. She is getting close to you but she's closer to the sister still."

Apart from when Jenna goes back to the coffee shop alone to explain the misunderstanding and fix things between MC and Jolina, they do not seem to have time to get close.
In my play through I am a lot closer to Jolina than Jenna is. (I think I have had 3 or 4 times with her without Jenna)

 

[freedom.call]

I am not sure how it could be Jenna and Jolina (unless they have been meeting and not telling you)

"The sister has introduced someone else into your life. A pretty blonde. She is getting close to you but she's closer to the sister still."

Apart from when Jenna goes back to the coffee shop alone to explain the misunderstanding and fix things between MC and Jolina, they do not seem to have time to get close.
In my play through I am a lot closer to Jolina than Jenna is. (I think I have had 3 or 4 times with her without Jenna)

I admit the evidence is sketchy and Jolina is seemingly new in town iirc. Still, bit pointless of the FT if Debbie is the only option...

 

[Ranting Old Man]

I am not sure how it could be Jenna and Jolina (unless they have been meeting and not telling you)

"The sister has introduced someone else into your life. A pretty blonde. She is getting close to you but she's closer to the sister still."

Apart from when Jenna goes back to the coffee shop alone to explain the misunderstanding and fix things between MC and Jolina, they do not seem to have time to get close.
In my play through I am a lot closer to Jolina than Jenna is. (I think I have had 3 or 4 times with her without Jenna)

I'll remind you that she has indeed met with her without you and more than once.

As far as the closeness between the two of them, they have far more in common and far more to talk about than either of them actually have with you as MC.

And we are talking about how close Jolina or Debbie feels to the MC verses Jenna or Katie. There is a romance path for both of them (Jolina and Debbie) which leads me to believe that how closeness is defined is a variable that we are lacking information on.

Arguably both Debbie and Jolina have done FAR more sexually and romantically with the MC than they have with Katie or Jenna. So the variable of closeness could have a none romantic meaning and mean more a closeness of what they have in common.

This is just a possibility.

 

[Maviarab]

View attachment 855465

Arguably both Debbie and Jolina have done FAR more with the MC than they have with Katie or Jenna. So the variable of closeness could have a none romantic meaning and mean more a closeness of what they have in common.

This is just a possibility.

Arguably...Debbie knows and has done FAR more with Katie than the MC ever will most likely. That is a cast iron fact and guarantee. They are best friends and have been for years. Debbie is one of Katies 'girls'.

Unless...closeness is being based purely and solely on intimicy and nothing else in which case, the rules out Jolina completely being closer to Jenna. Once again, seeing what you want to see when the facts are just not there nor supported. Unless we are to assume without our knowledge Jenna and Jolina are in a secret lesbian tryst with each other whenever the MC pops out of the house?

I admit the evidence is sketchy and Jolina is seemingly new in town iirc. Still, bit pointless of the FT if Debbie is the only option...

Which is why in my previous posts I've asked if the beach house/sister/blonde statement is actually nothing more than that...just a factual statement. No meaning, no agenda (remember, Cleo actually makes a few of those statements, not everything she says is a mystery to do with any particular agenda).

 

[Ranting Old Man]

Arguably...Debbie knows and has done FAR more with Katie than the MC ever will most likely. That is a cast iron fact and guarantee. They are best friends and have been for some time. Debbie is one of Katies 'girls'.

Unless...closeness is being based purely and solely on intimicy and nothing else in which case, the rules out Jolina completely being closer to Jenna. Once again, seeing what you want to see when the facts are just not there. Unless we are to assume without our knledge Jenna and Jolina are in a secret lesbian tryst with each other whenever the MC pops out of the house.

Debbie hasn't slept with Katie. Sorry man no dice.

And intimacy was exactly what I was ruling out. I don't believe closeness has anything to do with intimacy.

You have no idea how close Jolina and Jenna have gotten during the times they have met without MC.