VN Ren'Py Where the Heart Is [S1 v2024-09-06 BETA] [CheekyGimp]

[Walter Victor]

Actually no, without a writer on staff you have what this game feels like... a game without a writer on staff. You can write dialogue without being a writer. Where the Heart is, is filled with minor grammatical foibles, poorly used phrasing, the occasional misused colloquialism and the characters are inconsistently portrayed. It reads like a game made by someone who is not a writer. Which is the point I was quite obviously making.

Are you really criticizing the writing in this game over grammar? I have started well over 100 games from this forum. There are maybe three [if I am being generous] that get the grammar right. It rankles me at times, but that alone never prevents me from enjoying a game. There are very few English professors who write porn games. [I'll bet they play them, though.]

As for characters being inconsistently portrayed... Have you watched a television series lately? These so-called professional writers fill their episodes with fake dramas that are perpetrated by characters acting inconsistently with their previous personae; only to have it all resolved conveniently for the end of the episode. It gets worse the more a series progresses beyond its initial season.

I think it fair to call out a developer on something you find objectionable. Constructive criticism should be welcomed. Why not try that approach?

 

[Arthoneceron]

I don't feel myself that english was hard to learn. Using the same english I was easily able to talk with people from US, from England and from Australia without any problems.

I remember which, when I was learning chinese, the same word could mean four different things depending on the voice tone.

 

[Walter Victor]

I don't feel myself that english was hard to learn. Using the same english I was easily able to talk with people from US, from England and from Australia without any problems.

I remember which, when I was learning chinese, the same word could mean four different things depending on the voice tone.

Right! English does not have nearly the inflection difficulties that the Chinese language does.

But of all the Western languages, English seems to me to be the one that is the most amalgamated from other sources. Latin, Greek, Germanic, Gaelic, Nordic, African and other language groups have all made significant contributions to the English language, which has resulted in a hodgepodge of grammar, idiomatic, spelling, and other inconsistencies, making it difficult even for native-English speakers to get it all right.

 

[Phalzyr]

Which is the point I was quite obviously making.

Obvious? hmm... What is a writer but someone who writes (or if you want gets paid to write)? Whether you personally think someone isn't great at writing doesn't make them not a writer. It might make them not a "professional" writer in your opinion. I guess what threw me in your useless rambling was your definition or should I say opinion of what constitutes a "writer". Sorry if I misunderstood what point you were trying to make.

 

[seamanq]

Right! English does not have nearly the inflection difficulties that the Chinese language does.

But of all the Western languages, English seems to me to be the one that is the most amalgamated from other sources. Latin, Greek, Germanic, Gaelic, Nordic, African and other language groups have all made significant contributions to the English language, which has resulted in a hodgepodge of grammar, idiomatic, spelling, and other inconsistencies, making it difficult even for native-English speakers to get it all right.

Unless you're a linguist, I'm not sure you have the basis to claim that English is more amalgamated than any other language. Having studied linguistics, amalgamation and influence of other languages is a natural course of events (even in sign languages). Where some languages have it over English are that they are largely spoken in one concentrated area, and in some cases there are actually committees that make decisions for those languages, like major changes. English probably is so complicated because it is spoken worldwide, and in each area there is potential for language contact to influence it, making the dialect in those areas different than others.

 

[riddikk91]

Ummm... what the hell has the last two pages of waffle about languages got to do with the game? I can't believe I had to go back two pages to get to a "thread-relevant" post!!! What a waste of time...

 

[Fantabaldu]

Actually no, without a writer on staff you have what this game feels like... a game without a writer on staff. You can write dialogue without being a writer. Where the Heart is, is filled with minor grammatical foibles, poorly used phrasing, the occasional misused colloquialism and the characters are inconsistently portrayed. It reads like a game made by someone who is not a writer. Which is the point I was quite obviously making.

I absolutely don't agree with you ...
If there is a game that shines for his good writing and a perfect grammar , with a really original hilarious style ,with many and stylish words jokes inside ,this game is Where the Heart is;a game where dialogues and construction of the characters are made much better than many other games try to do.

Another thing that i always read here in this thread , but also in other many thread similar, is the request or the suggestion from players to find a right writer , to make in this way a better game...
But people really think that outside in the world are there hundreds of free writers ready to write adult games ?
This thing for a developer in reality is a big roadblock this is the true ; Because people with a good native English language , especially for porn games , era not so many , like every person thinks, and especially are not free ; professional writer have a big cost , this cannot be done for the major part of games that when things arte going well , earn some hundreds , a few thousand of dollars.

 

[seamanq]

I absolutely don't agree with you ...
If there is a game that shines for his good writing and a perfect grammar , with a really original hilarious style ,with many and stylish words jokes inside ,this game is Where the Heart is;a game where dialogues and construction of the characters are made much better than many other games try to do.

Another thing that i always read here in this thread , but also in other many thread similar, is the request or the suggestion from players to find a right writer , to make in this way a better game...
But people really think that outside in the world are there hundreds of free writers ready to write adult games ?
This think for a developer in reality is a big roadblock this is the true ; Because people with a good native English language , especially for porn games , era not so many , like every person thinks, and especially are not free ; and professional writer have a big cost , this cannot be done for the major part of games that when things arte going well , earn some hundreds , a few thousand of dollars.

I'm with you on this one. I absolutely love the writing and this game has had me laughing out loud many times. I absolutely do not agree that the dialog and character development is all over the map. I actually think that the development of the main characters (Mom, Jenna, Katie) have been slow and deliberate, and that the peripheral characters have also been developed consistently as well. I have nothing but thumbs up for the writing and story so far, and that's why I (like many others) are disappointed in the delay, but waiting with baited breath for the final (longer) release of the next chapter.

 

[Pitrik]

This game is a masterpiece in all... Stop

 

[aberdash]

If there is a game that shines for his good writing and a perfect grammar , with a really original hilarious style ,with many and stylish words jokes inside ,this game is Where the Heart is;a game where dialogues and construction of the characters are made much better than many other games try to do.

I would have agreed with you a few updates ago. The writing is clearly staring to go downhill though. I mean that scene with Lily just comes out of nowhere and has nothing to do with anything (I understand it was because of a poll but come on). Then there is the obvious change in writing style when talking to katie in the park. Of course there is also the very rushed sex scene with katie. I mean it happens literally right after the talk in the park, their lines were short and to the point making it almost robotic and a time skip in the middle of a sex scene? There is no way you will be able to convince me anyone put any serious thought or effort in to that scene. Hopefully they get shit in order before anyone elses arc suffers because of it.

 

[Walter Victor]

Well, at least I got a notification about my post being deleted. Thank you for that courtesy. Sorry about the off-topic spamming.

Feel free to delete this one too!

 

[Ignatz]

There is some confusion here about writing and plotting.

If you are disturbed by the grammar or the dialogue, then you are wishing for better writing. I think WTHI has some writing issues, but the general creative and interesting dialogue is quite good and imaginative. Basic editing would take care of the rest.

If, however, you don't like the pace of the story, the appearance of certain scenes or the logic of the tale, then that is plotting you have issues with. It's difficult for me to measure plotting in an adult porn game, especially when it comes out piecemeal as all these games do. I haven't found anything noticeably disagreeable in the story structure so far. It doesn't read like a novel, therefore I don't apply the standard plot expectations. To my mind, there has been nothing so glaring that I feel confused or broken from immersion. I certainly have experienced that in other games in this genre.

It's not just semantics, these are distinct parts of creating and telling a story. It doesn't add much to the overall discussion of a sex game, but it does fill up the forum in between updates!

 

[Bonhomie]

The other consideration is that any writer for an adult game featured here writes in English as it is the accepted language.
However that writer has to try and make his texts understandable for non-native English speakers as well as the various 'english' speaking nations.
I have done a bit of this and sometimes the 'colloquial' terminology I would use as a native Englishman would be difficult for a foreign national to understand, so I would use simpler wording.

Having said that WTHI has had some great writing - particularly between the Goddess and the MC

… … and if you think this game is bad I would hate to see your critiques of the 95% of games on here I consider vastly inferior.

 

[aberdash]

… … and if you think this game is bad I would hate to see your critiques of the 95% of games on here I consider vastly inferior.

People tend to be harsher on things that are trying to take themselves seriously. Ptolemy sets a pretty high bar for that as far as writing goes. People also tend to be less harsh on things that cater to their fetish. Which I suspect is a big reason so many get a pass on mediocre writing.

 

[Salxvatore]

I need the next chapter alr. You can't keep me away from Monica cheeky.

 

[Walter Victor]

People tend to be harsher on things that are trying to take themselves seriously. Ptolemy sets a pretty high bar for that as far as writing goes. People also tend to be less harsh on things that cater to their fetish. Which I suspect is a big reason so many get a pass on mediocre writing.

Have you checked out Haley's Story. Viitgames has done an outstanding job of plot and character development. Perhaps the best I've seen on this site.

Warning: It's about the MC and his twin sister (Haley) and is labeled as 'incest', although it hasn't happened in the game yet. So, anyone who hates that particular fetish, should just forget everything I said. [As if you didn't already!]

 

[aberdash]

Have you checked out Haley's Story. Viitgames has done an outstanding job of plot and character development. Perhaps the best I've seen on this site.

Warning: It's about the MC and his twin sister (Haley) and is labeled as 'incest', although it hasn't happened in the game yet. So, anyone who hates that particular fetish, should just forget everything I said. [As if you didn't already!]

Yes and it is easily one of the best on this site. I think ptolemy is also a writer for Life with Mary. Not as good but it is still pretty good.

 

[alexalex246]

Can anyone post the teaser images?

 

[CheekyGimp]

Actually no, without a writer on staff you have what this game feels like... a game without a writer on staff. You can write dialogue without being a writer. Where the Heart is, is filled with minor grammatical foibles, poorly used phrasing, the occasional misused colloquialism and the characters are inconsistently portrayed. It reads like a game made by someone who is not a writer. Which is the point I was quite obviously making.

I am going to regret this, but for those that know me, you will know I cannot help myself when I'm bored/tired. Each of his posts gradually pushed me towards not being able to help myself.....The sound of this guy running down from his ivory tower and galloping in on his high horse has woken my petty demon.

No writer? Sorry to break it to you, but I AM a writer. Guess what? I wrote this game, so I'm a writer!
Am I a professional writer? No. Do I claim to be a great or even good writer? No. I might even be, in some people's opinion a terrible writer and I'm OK with that. But good or bad, the fact is you are wrong and I am a writer! So, for someone who seems to be so particular about accuracy, it's a bit awkward that you start off with an error.

Oxford English definition of writer: "A person who has written something or who writes in a particular way."
P.S. I have written something. And I do write in a particular way. The fact that you think my "writing" is particularly bad sort of proves the point that I have written stuff! ***Cringe***

Can you give me an example of a misused colloquialism? I'm not saying I don't have any - I've just never heard of one, so I'm curious what you would consider as an example of where a colloquialism has been misused.

"Foible" is really only applicable when describing a person's character or behaviour. So you could accurately say I have some foibles, but it's incorrect to use the term in the context you used it in. A piece of writing cannot have " grammatical foibles". The writer has to have the foibles, not the writing. And "foible", by it's very definition implies a minor or small flaw, so it should never really be preceded by a diminutive adverb, such as "minor". Don't worry about it. I misused the word plenty of times too, until my 1st year (secondary school) teacher corrected me.

These are only questions, not statements, because I genuinely don't know for sure (But I bet you'll know). Should it be:

{Actually, no. Without a writer....} instead of {Actually no, without a writer...}
{"Where the Heart is" is filled with...} instead of {Where the Heart is, is filled with...}

and lastly, regarding {Which is the point I was quite obviously making.} - Can I suggest that if you need to re-iterate your point or give more detail / context, then maybe it wasn't that "obvious."

I never claim to be a grammar guru, although when I'm not rushed (which is never the case when it comes to WTHI), I usually do alright. And with approximately 27,000 lines (that's lines, not words) of dialog/ code written, with very little time given to proof-reading, I expect lots of minor errors.
It's difficult. Hell, you couldn't even write 4 lines without an error! Now get off your high horse, you're embarrassing yourself! (And your horse). And remember, it's a porn game, not a Booker prize candidate.

As anyone who reads this forum regularly knows, I am always open to constructive feedback and in most cases I'm pretty receptive to it. I agree that there are typos & grammar errors in every episode and I usually thank people for catching these. I'm responding to your comments in a negative way, because your tone throughout your posts just reeks of pretentiousness and self-righteousness and I've a low tolerance of those attributes in people (and horses!).

And I've sprinkled a few typos and grammatical errors into my response just to give you something to do. (All intentional of course )

Your pal,

Cheeky

 

[Deleted member 1019532]

I am going to regret this, but for those that know me, you will know I cannot help myself when I'm bored/tired. Each of his posts gradually pushed me towards not being able to help myself.....The sound of this guy running down from his ivory tower and galloping in on his high horse has woken my petty demon.

No writer? Sorry to break it to you, but I AM a writer. Guess what? I wrote this game, so I'm a writer!
Am I a professional writer? No. Do I claim to be a great or even good writer? No. I might even be, in some people's opinion a terrible writer and I'm OK with that. But good or bad, the fact is you are wrong and I am a writer! So, for someone who seems to be so particular about accuracy, it's a bit awkward that you start off with an error.

Oxford English definition of writer: "A person who has written something or who writes in a particular way."
P.S. I have written something. And I do write in a particular way. The fact that you think my "writing" is particularly bad sort of proves the point that I have written stuff! ***Cringe***

Can you give me an example of a misused colloquialism? I'm not saying I don't have any - I've just never heard of one, so I'm curious what you would consider as an example of where a colloquialism has been misused.

"Foible" is really only applicable when describing a person's character or behaviour. So you could accurately say I have some foibles, but it's incorrect to use the term in the context you used it in. A piece of writing cannot have " grammatical foibles". The writer has to have the foibles, not the writing. And "foible", by it's very definition implies a minor or small flaw, so it should never really be preceded by a diminutive adverb, such as "minor". Don't worry about it. I misused the word plenty of times too, until my 1st year (secondary school) teacher corrected me.

These are only questions, not statements, because I genuinely don't know for sure (But I bet you'll know). Should it be:

{Actually, no. Without a writer....} instead of {Actually no, without a writer...}
{"Where the Heart is" is filled with...} instead of {Where the Heart is, is filled with...}

and lastly, regarding {Which is the point I was quite obviously making.} - Can I suggest that if you need to re-iterate your point or give more detail / context, then maybe it wasn't that "obvious."

I never claim to be a grammar guru, although when I'm not rushed (which is never the case when it comes to WTHI), I usually do alright. And with approximately 27,000 lines (that's lines, not words) of dialog/ code written, with very little time given to proof-reading, I expect lots of minor errors.
It's difficult. Hell, you couldn't even write 4 lines without an error! Now get off your high horse, you're embarrassing yourself! (And your horse). And remember, it's a porn game, not a Booker prize candidate.

As anyone who reads this forum regularly knows, I am always open to constructive feedback and in most cases I'm pretty receptive to it. I agree that there are typos & grammar errors in every episode and I usually thank people for catching these. I'm responding to your comments in a negative way, because your tone throughout your posts just reeks of pretentiousness and self-righteousness and I've a low tolerance of those attributes in people (and horses!).

And I've sprinkled a few typos and grammatical errors into my response just to give you something to do. (All intentional of course )

Your pal,

Cheeky

Don't waffle, tell us how you really feel.

You write the way you write, I write the way I write, we're both right, right?