Why are so many games on here so rapey? [Poll]

[GuyFreely]

First, I'm mostly concerned with male protagonist rape scenarios. I think female protagonist rape is more often tied to theme, if that makes any sense. I'm not saying it's better, but it's a bit different.

Second, let's be clear what rape is (just in case). This includes any non-consensual sexual activity including, but not limited to:
"Classic": She says 'no' and you say 'yes.' Can include the victim being restrained against her will.
Unconscious: She can't say no, but she also can't say yes. This includes night time visits and drugging the victim.
Mind Control: She said yes, but only because some outside force is influencing her. Mind control, aphrodisiacs, pheromones, etc. This is often typified by the female being either unaware of what happened or even angry or regretful about what happened.
Coercion: Have sex or else. She said yes, because she was threatened.
Probably a few other scenarios, but this covers a lot of them.

Shortcut to Sex: Basically the dev wants to deliver a sex scene and they want to do it as quickly as possible. So rather than spending time explaining why the woman is consenting to sex, they just use a rapey scenario. You might consider this lazy and it might just be a dev "giving players what they want."

Rape Fantasy: The idea here is that the player is supposed to enjoy the fantasy of taking advantage of a woman. The rape is on purpose because it's "hotter" than consensual sex. This one is more believable if that's the theme of the game like being a slave trainer or some shit.

Doesn't know how to interact with human females: Pretty self explanatory. I feel like it's possible some devs honestly don't know how to write normal interactions with women. Could chalk this up to lack of experience or overexposure to pornography. They don't see why slipping drugs to the girl you like to have sex with her is a bad thing. I like it when an MC gets mad at a guy who is trying to fuck one of their potential conquests. "What an asshole, all he wants to do is fuck her." Right....

(I didn't start this thread to name and shame specific games, just to discuss the topic in general.)

[Late Edit: I'm referring to games where the non-consensual sex doesn't really fit the theme of the game.]

 

[Pharan]

To add to rape fantasy it's more than taking advantage of another person. It's also being taken advantage of by someone else. Equally likely, men and women alike, enjoy losing their ability of choice and it adds for more distinctions of story direction. Yeah our species is fucked up..

On top of this, creating stories often need opposition and having 'bad things' happen helps invoke emotional responses in the player. More emotion involved in the player is going to give them a larger dopamine spike at the end of the day and makes for an effective experience.

In essence, anyone partaking of a porn game is going to be going for those dopamine hits and likewise will want to have rape to help them in supporting that end goal. Whether it's morally correct is entirely irrelevant in going for that goal.

In other words: It's necessary and writing things like "doesn't know how to interact with human females' is both condescending and missing the point.

 

[GuyFreely]

@Pharan You seem to be referring to thematic games. Where the rape is more tied into the whole theme. So a female corruption game is a classic example, where she will find herself in a lot of rapey scenarios. Also, if the MC is supposed to be morally ambiguous or even a villain, then it also makes sense.

I'm more concerned with when the MC is painted as a "normal" guy or even a "good" guy and then proceeds to rape friends and family alike. There's a certain disconnect there. I'll give an example. In a certain game, the plot is basically you earn the trust of one of the women to the point where she won't suspect that you slipped drugs into her drink so you can have sex with her. Granted, I don't think you HAVE to do this, I'm not sure, but the idea that I'll earn her trust enough to rape her is somewhat counter intuitive.

 

[W22N]

To add to rape fantasy it's more than taking advantage of another person. It's also being taken advantage of by someone else. Equally likely, men and women alike, enjoy losing their ability of choice and it adds for more distinctions of story direction. Yeah our species is fucked up..

On top of this, creating stories often need opposition and having 'bad things' happen helps invoke emotional responses in the player. More emotion involved in the player is going to give them a larger dopamine spike at the end of the day and makes for an effective experience.

In essence, anyone partaking of a porn game is going to be going for those dopamine hits and likewise will want to have rape to help them in supporting that end goal. Whether it's morally correct is entirely irrelevant in going for that goal.

In other words: It's necessary and writing things like "doesn't know how to interact with human females' is both condescending and missing the point.

Not everyone likes to lose control, in fact that tends to be more of a submissive quality. You're speaking of rape as if it was lack of rain ruining crops, "bad things" would be a car accident or actions taken by someone outside the scope of the story, when the main protagonist things and participates in something "bad" off his own will is when mc's question arises.
Saying that players want rape to help them increase their dopamine is clearly proven wrong by the market and particular responses to those cases. I've seen very few people actively looking for rape in a game, and the games that have it directly and as it's main features tend to not do so well support-wise.
I think mc's three focus points are logical and probably accurate on why this happens, the one you seem offended by, it wouldn't be wrong if someone doesn't know how interactions work for whatever reason.

Answering to the main post, all the stories told in these games are fantasy or exaggerated, the biggest milk cow and present in next to every game is incest, how many incestual couples does anyone here know so they can observe and understand how they got past that taboo imposed by nature and society alike? Since it's so hard to make something realistic, they tend to play into the same fantasy and add something out of the norm to make it work, it can be direct rape where the female falls in love with mc's dick like BB or something magical that lowers their inhibitions like DoD. I'd also point out that these are things that have worked for someone to some extent in the past, so people making new stories just recycle it, the reason we see Voss hair in every game is because it worked for someone, they saw it looked good and took it themselves, so how they perceive the market / suggested course of action I think also comes into play when they replay these themes.

 

[Agent HK47]

Most often its a mixture of things. First of all its a quick way to get to some action. The more important thing however, is because a lot of people want a chance to do things to a girl, which they would never do in their real lives.
I have given this example before, but look at how people play GTA. Do they obey the traffic laws? Do they take care not to kill anyone? I haven't seen it yet. People want to be madmen; driving over innocent people, killing old ladies, rob stores and blow up 38 police officers who tries to stop them, because it is something they simply can't ever do in the real world, and it is fun to catch a glimpse of a less trivial reality. It doesn't mean that these kind of people are bad, it just means that they want to experience something different than what they see/do every day.

Why is star wars, Jurassic world & Superheroes the most popular franchices in the world? Because they are good movies? Well, some of them are definately good movies (although definately not all), but most importantly they offer you a different experience. In real life, you don't see people on the street having lighsaber duels, while a t-rex comes roaring down the street, followed by the Avengers trying to stop it.
That is the general way things tend to go. Wizards, trolls, superheroes, spaceships, or a chance to treat women like worthless filth instead of fragile porcelain dolls, it doesn't really matter what it is, people just want to experience something different to their usual boring reality.

I enjoy games with romance, no question about it. However, I generally feel much more entertained when I am playing some "bad" man, who just wants to fuck women, no matter what it takes. I treat women with respect and care in the real world, and I will keep doing so. However, when I am ingame, I like to do unspeakable things to them. I want to fuck them and chain them in the backyard for later use, if that suits me.
It is one of the reasons why incest is so popular. It is wrong, cause everybody says so. Your mom probably taught you and the government keeps reminding you. They also told you to respect women, and that women are often supposedly delicate little flowers, which must be protected at all times. It is simply fun to be able to defy those rules, without any actual harm being done to anyone.

Is everyone feeling like me? Of course not. But lots a people are following a similar mindset, and there is a huge market for it. Just my own opinion ofc.

 

[Pharan]

Saying that players want rape to help them increase their dopamine is clearly proven wrong by the market and particular responses to those cases. I've seen very few people actively looking for rape in a game, and the games that have it directly and as it's main features tend to not do so well support-wise.

None of this statement is actually true. Rape has been the number one category in the Japanese market for decades at this point. Looking at pornhub statistics you'll also see it's one of the most sought after categories for women with BDSM / gangbangs / extremely violent porn.

 

[Pharan]

@Pharan

I'm more concerned with when the MC is painted as a "normal" guy or even a "good" guy and then proceeds to rape friends and family alike. There's a certain disconnect there. I'll give an example. In a certain game, the plot is basically you earn the trust of one of the women to the point where she won't suspect that you slipped drugs into her drink so you can have sex with her. Granted, I don't think you HAVE to do this, I'm not sure, but the idea that I'll earn her trust enough to rape her is somewhat counter intuitive.

I think it's the idea of taking advantage / being taken advantage of by being deceitful and duplicitous to manipulate someone else. By being trust-worthy first and then later an evil bastard would invoke a stronger emotional response in most player.

 

[GuyFreely]

I appreciate the discussion. One thing I want to make clear, which I forget I normally need to. I'm not saying "Rape in game = bad game." That's not what I'm getting at. When rape goes along with theme of the game, or is given some sort of context, then it can fit right in. I also enjoy a bit of rape fantasy in games, punishing tied up prisoners or something like that. I do think it's weird to have a game that on the surface seems to be about winning over women or romancing them, but then you end up mostly just raping them in some form or another. It's also weird when you rape a woman in a game and she's like "well you just raped me, but I really liked it, so it's fine."

I mean for the first option (shortcut to sex). The other obvious shortcut is a slutty woman. The woman just wants to fuck. Both scenarios can get you to the sex scene faster, but I find the rape option is often picked over the slut option. (Not always) I'm just curious what people think about it.

 

[GuyFreely]

I think it's the idea of taking advantage / being taken advantage of by being deceitful and duplicitous to manipulate someone else. By being trust-worthy first and then later an evil bastard would invoke a stronger emotional response in most player.

Hmm, yeah I could see that being a case. I think it's a matter of tone. If that's really what a dev is going for, I want them to indicate it before it happens. Let me know the MC is actually a dirtbag, so that when he becomes a rapist, I kind of knew that's what the deal was beforehand.

 

[W22N]

None of this statement is actually true. Rape has been the number one category in the Japanese market for decades at this point. Looking at pornhub statistics you'll also see it's one of the most sought after categories for women with BDSM / gangbangs / extremely violent porn.

It's a more sought after fetish in asian markets as is molestation and such, that's for sure, but if you look at games like bb, one of the things he got most shit from was how rapey the character was for no apparent reason, same thing for the shitfest bad brother saga, my girlfriend's amnesia with the twist of being ntr, while rape based games simply aren't that common (the only one that comes to mind is orction).
Also i'd tie gangbangs more to corruption and bdsm to domination rather than violence. And it's also worth pointing out that it's not inherently bad if the setting is set for it. Gippowho's game is all about corruption, you control this female who whores herself to get money and it has rpg elements to it, so if you lose and get raped by these evil people you're fighting, a rape scene isn't out of place. Comparing it to Lucky Mark, mc is presented as a regular / everyday guy, he wants his boss' daughter and or wife to fall in love with him, for both of them in order to progress their stories you HAVE to use sleeping pills to take advantage of them, it just doesn't fit the character. If he hated his boss and wanted to, say, cuck him and leave them both pregnant, that's great, do whatever, but the reasoning behind characters isn't all that solid most of the time.

 

[dspeed]

I mean, you're basically asking why Dominants exist in BDSM kinks.

Power fantasies are the biggest sellers in interactive media since the genre began. It's a form of fantasy, a form of escapism and if you really want to get all philosophically wanky about it, it is analogous to dreaming - the brain enjoys playing with fictional scenarios as a way of experiencing choices and patterns that it could never or the conscious mind would never interact with.

Let's ignore adult gaming for the moment and talk about regular gaming. How many titles do you play as the "Chosen One" archetype? A character who is the hidden secret to saving the whole world and whose actions are considered moral just because they are committed by our protagonist? That's basically every RPG and FPS on the market. One of the reasons I enjoyed Spec Ops: The Line was because it humanised the enemy from the usual run and gun fare who are mindless automatons to people with emotions, fears and families. In fact a famous piece of diegetic world dialogue is by an NPC you are stalking and he's talking about his wife and her cooking back home.

We accept the reality that is in front of us if it is empowering. ALL video games have to be empowering in some form, just in the same way that ALL literature and media has to be. Not always directly but even finding empowerment in the rush of fear or the empathy of sadness.

These types of adult games are the logical conclusion of that trend. A somewhat lazy one but adult games are designed (when done well) to stress the adult rather than the game part of that phrase. Maybe 1% of the audience wants an adult game with a good in-depth narrative where the protagonist marches through the Heroes Journey; the other 99% want to masturbate to a vague story and that's fine. Most people who want to read erotic fiction will read, well, erotic fiction.

It's why incest is so prevalent too. It requires little setup, build up or back story - this character is Mom. this character is Sister, got it. There's no need for novels on how or why it is enticing or exciting to have sex with these people as society has built that in for us, lifting the work from the writer.

 

[baneini]

Gameplay goal = experience sex/nude scene with a woman
Resolution = raep, fast and easy.

Theres many many jap vn games where the goal is consensual romance to lead to sex but those tend to be slower burning with story focus, and due to overabundance there's little reason for a western to make another one and expect many patreon dollars.
It is a shortcut and it is a fantasy and it's difficult to write realistic scenarios. I don't think it's bad tho. Rape fits porn games really well.

 

[GuyFreely]

@dspeed I'm not asking why people enjoy the rape fantasy. I think that's fairly clear. I'm asking why rape pops up in games where it's antithetical to the story that is being presented. The games can end up seeming like this. "Man, my sister is so cute. I love her to bits and she's got a nice body. I wish I could rape her every day." Instead of something like "... I wish we could be together even though we're related." You can do it by changing the original context too. "Man, my sister is so hot, but she is such a bitch. I want to just fuck her and show her her place." I mean this last scenario isn't a sympathetic character, but at least you understand him.

Also, I'm not sure about the 1/99%. I mean it's super obvious you pulled that statistic out of your ass. People have been asking that question on this forum over and over. The impression seems to be that it's definitely higher than 1%.

 

[redknight00]

For starters, it's a shortcut in the game design, it allows faster sex delivery with no plot development needed. In days of patreon with the need to make quality content with frequency enough to keep players interested, it's an easy solution to rape the sleeping sister or blackmail a teacher before the developer can do the sex bits in a more legitimate way later.

Also, considering many games are also dealing with abnormal circumstances for their worlds (that try to mirror a regular modern day setting) such as incest or dating 10 that know each other at the same time, while in both cases it would be very possible to make do with enough character development or a more casual view on sex (that is by no means wrong), the easy way is to just force the way to sex while also creating a challenge for the player to grind their way to the pussy instead of being given it.

 

[DarthSeduction]

"Classic": She says 'no' and you say 'yes.' Can include the victim being restrained against her will.

Obviously Rape Fantasy. No one is including this by accident.

Unconscious: She can't say no, but she also can't say yes. This includes night time visits and drugging the victim.

This is a combo of all 3 I'd say, with many games including it for no other reason than because it's an easy way to get early sexual content while still gating the good stuff for later. However, I know somnophilia (I think that's how you spell it) is also a thing, so we can't rule out the actual Rape Fantasy people, and there's definitely a bit of lack of understanding of how interactions with real women go here as well. See trope thread entry

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for more.

Mind Control: She said yes, but only because some outside force is influencing her. Mind control, aphrodisiacs, pheromones, etc. This is often typified by the female being either unaware of what happened or even angry or regretful about what happened.

Power fantasy mostly. Personally I like subtle forms of mind tampering, specifically when all they do is remove inhibition rather than forcing someone to do something they don't want to do. However I also recognize that there's a wealth of people who are really really into mind control as a fetish, I'd also include Time Stop in this as well, though I haven't seen it in a western game, yet (unless it's in timestamps).

Coercion: Have sex or else. She said yes, because she was threatened.

Coercion is also a bit of a power fantasy, and I guess, to an extent, all rape fantasy is about power. The difference is that with coercion and mind control, you get her to say yes, she does it willingly, because of your power. In straight up rape or sleep sex scenarios you're taking it, but she isn't giving it. It makes a difference psychologically for all parties.

What you didn't mention and what I was hoping you would is all of the consent through harassment in games. Milfy City recently crossed this line with the older sister, pushing her farther and farther till she's almost broken down (I haven't played the weekend event yet, but I can only imagine where this is going.) Pretty much all content with your mom in big brother is gated behind wearing her down through constant harassment. Lisa isn't as bad, though you're also constantly pushing her into things. Alice I kinda blame for most of her sexual contact with you. Unlike Lisa and your mom, Alice seems to be intentionally taking advantage of your harassment. You still push her, but when she relents it isn't because you've pushed her, it's because she wants something from you. This concept crops up in almost every Life Sim with a teenage protagonist, but it also exists in things like Dating My Daughter, where for the first 3/4 of the game D is both ignorant to, and passive in all of the continuing sexual development.

I'd also point out that while I know that all the peeping content in these games is about getting some eye candy in early to keep people playing, peeping is like a gateway drug to sexual assault and stalker behaviors. Some innocent flashes and accidental walk-ins are one thing, but encouraging the player to peep constantly for content is a completely different and not at all innocent ball game.

 

[Delmach]

Even though you state you want to discuss something it seems to me that all three options are negative. Your explanation of it also gives that away. Might only be my radar that shows that, but many of those polls are people just asking for agreement on their opinions.

Now to add something to the discussion, I dont think there are many people that enjoy really serious rape scenarios, even in games. I played hundreds of those japanese games, but there are very few where the character that goes through rape is actually "damaged" afterwards, be it in body or mind. They mostly shrug it off very very quickly afterwards, or want to seek revenge, but they arent portrayed as actually suffering.

And the western industry is quite softer, basically 95% of the time its some mind control for plot reasons, or just inhumanely pushing their libido, and you nearly always have them enjoy it afterwards, as if the developer wants to justify it, to make sure everyone understands it wasnt any bad, just a temporary inconvenience for the characters.

Now this is all from my point of view, and I basically never play a game and think of myself as any character. I just play interactive stories, and there arent really many characters I sympathise with. I enjoy good stories or characters, but in the end, if rape is the way to see some sex, then so be it.

And lastly, I think only consensual, loving sex all the time is too boring, and also removes a lot of story/gameplay options. Its fantasy after all, give me all aspects, even the dark ones. I dont have imagination to only play games that are extremly close to real life with all its legal boundaries.

 

[GuyFreely]

Even though you state you want to discuss something it seems to me that all three options are negative. Your explanation of it also gives that away. Might only be my radar that shows that, but many of those polls are people just asking for agreement on their opinions.

Now to add something to the discussion, I dont think there are many people that enjoy really serious rape scenarios, even in games. I played hundreds of those japanese games, but there are very few where the character that goes through rape is actually "damaged" afterwards, be it in body or mind. They mostly shrug it off very very quickly afterwards, or want to seek revenge, but they arent portrayed as actually suffering.

And the western industry is quite softer, basically 95% of the time its some mind control for plot reasons, or just inhumanely pushing their libido, and you nearly always have them enjoy it afterwards, as if the developer wants to justify it, to make sure everyone understands it wasnt any bad, just a temporary inconvenience for the characters.

Now this is all from my point of view, and I basically never play a game and think of myself as any character. I just play interactive stories, and there arent really many characters I sympathise with. I enjoy good stories or characters, but in the end, if rape is the way to see some sex, then so be it.

And lastly, I think only consensual, loving sex all the time is too boring, and also removes a lot of story/gameplay options. Its fantasy after all, give me all aspects, even the dark ones. I dont have imagination to only play games that are extremly close to real life with all its legal boundaries.

Again, you've missed the point. If you think all of them are negative, that's not really true. Of the three options, Rape Fantasy is just another fetish. It's along the lines of something like bestiality or incest, etc. I mean sure, calling it rape has a negative connotation, because in normal society it's a bad thing. In a game, where the consequences are fictitious, it doesn't have to be negative. That's the "fantasy" part of it.

The other two options are only negative against the developer. The first one is only negative because it's a bit lazy. People can be lazy, it happens. I guess you could infer that players who like lazy writing are bad, but that wasn't really the point of it. I'm not trying to harp on people liking things, I don't know that it ever gets you anywhere. People like what they like. Devs not being able to write believable sexual scenarios is again only negative to the dev, if true. They might be perfectly capable of doing it, but they think people don't want that type of story or think it doesn't fit, etc.

You are on the right track when you say the fallout from rape is almost always inconsequential. We almost never see a woman being devastated by the experience. People don't want that kind of downer moment. The strongest reaction is often "game over" which is to imply that the player has fucked it up so bad, no further progress can be made. It may or may not include the actual reaction from the woman. Past that, it's usually kind of angry all the way up to thanking the player for the experience.

Now I don't want to derail the thread too hard into a discussion of glorifying rape. It's obvious that it happens. I would like to hope that most people can separate fictional rape from actual rape. There is something to be said for desensitization, but the studies on this have been largely inconclusive. Does playing violent video games make you violent, that whole thing. It's not the role of developers to teach people life lessons. They should learn that stuff before ever touching an adult game, but even if they haven't we can't be worried about coddling people.

 

[thecardinal]

These are porn GAMES. Games imply conflict, something to overcome. The easiest way to do this is the mc wants sex, the other characters do not. The player 'wins' by conquering. It's an easy formula that people (myself included) can enjoy,

*slaps roof of ren'py visual novel*
"This bad boy can fit so many one-dimensional characters in it*

 

[Delmach]

Again, you've missed the point. If you think all of them are negative, that's not really true.

Again? Did I already post here? You had me looking.

Anyway, I could rephrase and say it sounds a little biased, is that better? What I was trying to get across is that polls made by people quite often have options to vote on that are very subjective. Not like its any real trouble, thats how it works, im just thinking a "different opinion, write what you think" option would have been useful. As I struggle to chose any of those available. The thread title also didnt help, as it sounded like a moral question to me.

And im still not really sure what kind of information you seek, it seems to be a mix of "why do they even feature non-consensual content?" and "why so many inconsistencies/flaws/weird storytelling in those rape games?"

The first question got many answer already, power fantasy, just bored with lovey dovey all the time, having any conflict in their porn GAMES.

And about the inconsistencies/flaws/weird storytelling, to me it seems that nearly every game has that, be it those with rape content or not, japanese or western. As soon as its a porn game you are pretty much bound to see/read stuff thats just nonsensical.

Its probably not always needed or could be done better. But I tend to just nod and say:"yep, sure, why not" and then ask when can I see the boobies. It gets a logic pass, if the outcome is the same. But thats just my opinion.

 

[caLTD]

What is wrong with you guys.

Why you demand full dining etiquette from 5 year old boy.

Why every critic demands reasonable well established stories, characters in our games.

We are era of silent movies. There is no tropes no formulations. Every one try to build and earn some money.

None of big earners even complete their first games.

Later or sooner market will decide what is good what is bad.