why developer avoid RPGM....?
- Thread starter kimoo
- Start date
The thing is, everyone complains that the moving around the world felt more like filler than actual gameplay. Milfy City is still an open world, essentially, it's just incomplete. The only difference is you aren't wandering around aimlessly.
I don't have the same hatred for it as I used to, but it really is rarely used well.
I don't have the same hatred for it as I used to, but it really is rarely used well.
- Jun 2, 2018
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Problem with RPGM stuff is without really good story or art, the games made with them end up being trash. I don't think people typically play RPGM for game mechanics since its somewhat limited in that aspect despite being convenient. I don't hate RPGM like I used to but theres still a clusterfuck of bad content made with it and if someone really wants an open world game thats quality its better to use an engine like unity or make ur own thing.
Pretty much my problem with it.
Some developers would create huge worlds for no reason and then force you to roam around for no particular reason other than increasing the amount of grinding.
Off the top of my head, I enjoyed these recently because they use the engine well enough:
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- Jan 5, 2018
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As Darth said, its mostly used to fill transitions and therefore avoid extra renders. Now idk why you hold daniel k in such a high regard when games like "my girlfriend's amnesia" is full of holes and only has one character outside the main storyline (that could've been done with renpy), his new work seems much better from every angle. Same thing for icstor, having to walk around, repeat boring combat mechanics just to get a key and progress the story isn't appealing.
It's also a bit of a crash to see the commodore 64 graphics followed by 4k renders.
It's also a bit of a crash to see the commodore 64 graphics followed by 4k renders.
See, I hated MSwM&S because I felt like he was overrelying on game mechanics and not telling a good story. I really wanted to like it since the sis is hot and I liked the relatively unique art. But couldn't get into it.
Coceter Chronicles, Vis Major, and Zoe's Temptation were the ones that redeemed RPGM for me, I didn't mind ICCreations games, but couldn't play incest story so I left ICSTOR's stuff alone.
- Jan 4, 2018
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As someone who grew up in the '80s and still fondly remembers playing the original Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games in all their 2D retro sprite glory, I've always had a soft spot for RPG style 2D worlds. But the RPGM engines are kinda crap. They tend to be buggier than they should be, have poor performance and they are very limited on what you can do with them since they cater to newbie devs with minimal coding knowledge. They also almost always produce terribly clunky UIs that are painful to navigate.
In addition to all that though, I will say I have very little tolerance for JRPG-style battle mechanics these days. If a game is using RPGM and shoehorning in combat without a damn good reason, it's an almost given that I'll be passing it up without a second thought. In the end, the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to RPGM. The only reason it has so much appeal is the asset packs you can get for it. It means you can get a fairly decent looking game out with minimal effort even if you've got no coding or art skills. In many ways that's what's led to the sea of bad to mediocre games built on it.
For the record, Ren'Py can be used to produce RPGs and sim games just fine; you do however have to know a thing or two about Python and Ren'Py's underlying engine, PyGame. There are some pre-made modules around on the web for integrating ready made generic RPG and sim elements if you are willing to spend some time digging through web searches to track them down. Personally though, I'd go with something like Godot before Ren'Py, or even RPGM, any day for doing an RPG. But you'll need to provide your own assets in that case and do your own coding, but that tends to be a lot easier than most suspect. It just takes some time and effort.
In addition to all that though, I will say I have very little tolerance for JRPG-style battle mechanics these days. If a game is using RPGM and shoehorning in combat without a damn good reason, it's an almost given that I'll be passing it up without a second thought. In the end, the cons outweigh the pros when it comes to RPGM. The only reason it has so much appeal is the asset packs you can get for it. It means you can get a fairly decent looking game out with minimal effort even if you've got no coding or art skills. In many ways that's what's led to the sea of bad to mediocre games built on it.
For the record, Ren'Py can be used to produce RPGs and sim games just fine; you do however have to know a thing or two about Python and Ren'Py's underlying engine, PyGame. There are some pre-made modules around on the web for integrating ready made generic RPG and sim elements if you are willing to spend some time digging through web searches to track them down. Personally though, I'd go with something like Godot before Ren'Py, or even RPGM, any day for doing an RPG. But you'll need to provide your own assets in that case and do your own coding, but that tends to be a lot easier than most suspect. It just takes some time and effort.
- Jun 6, 2017
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you want a developer to make open world game with unity or even unreal engine
it will take more time and need more professional developer
because it's more realistic than RPGM
- Jun 6, 2017
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the problem is all the developers leaving RPGM and moving to renpy
even there are alot of good games with RPGM out there
and there are some guys like me getting pissed from reading and reading like in VN so the world make it sort of distraction
- Jan 4, 2018
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I love to read, so I don't have that problem. But if you really want there to be more RPG games in the world, then it's time to start making your own. That's usually the best reason to get into game development. If you've got strong opinions on the type of games you want to play and feel underserved by the existing developers out there, then it's time to show them your vision for adult gaming and maybe inspire some others along the way to follow suit when you lead by example.
I hate RPGM because - it sometimes crash on slower PCs. My desktop one is fine, but I also play on my laptop sometimes and it is from 2009. This might limit the player base. WoW was great with big community because you could run it on your toaster. Last time when I played RPGM on fresh PC it req to have the software first (or something like this), to start the game
A lot of devs create huge maps, while 95% of the buildings are just decoration and they didn't bother to put a map...
There are sometimes 0 hints where to go and what to do, I am not going to click all doors that you created... I said "doors" and going from 1 room to another usually is very noticeable on slower pcs (not always I guess this is some sort of optimization of the code).
They add too much stuff in the open world that gives 0 contributions to the game.
My favorite is - you cannot cross the street unless there is a walkway...
A lot of devs create huge maps, while 95% of the buildings are just decoration and they didn't bother to put a map...
There are sometimes 0 hints where to go and what to do, I am not going to click all doors that you created... I said "doors" and going from 1 room to another usually is very noticeable on slower pcs (not always I guess this is some sort of optimization of the code).
They add too much stuff in the open world that gives 0 contributions to the game.
My favorite is - you cannot cross the street unless there is a walkway...
I chose Ren'Py over RPGM for three reasons:
- Ren'Py is free
- Switching from beautiful renders to 8-bit graphics breaks immersion for me
- I'm a writer first and a gamedev second, so most of my work will be text heavy, and that suits Ren'Py fine.
- May 22, 2017
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That is because RPGM seems to have a huge problem with memory management. It just seems to load every used image into memory and never release them or something like that. With low resolution images the game will probably run fine (for some time) on an average computer with 4 or 8 GB or RAM, while it still may have stability problems with less than 4GB of RAM (depends on the game, op sys and other programs that occupy some of the memory, obviously). It may also have a problem with not being able to address more memory than 32-bit programs normally can - that is 2 GB maximum.
Pretty much every RPGM game that is trying to use HQ (at least 1080x1920px) images, seems to have some memory management issues and needs to be heavily optimized to run more than 5 or 10 minutes without crashing.
Just look at the last months in the "My sister Mia" thread. It's pretty much all about frequent crashes.
That ↑
Besides, there are other ways besides the RPGM style to create maps where you can travel around and search for stuff or events. And I think I've seen a RPGM style map and movement system in one of the Ren'Py games that is actually utilizing the graphic assets from RPGM. It didn't seem to be wise to create something like that, though. As I said, there are better ways to travel around than in the stone-age style RPGM.
Honestly, this is a bit shocking for me. My laptop has 4gb ram and I manage to play games like Dota2, HoN, Gwent. But that ugly 8bit game is taking so much... I even download versions with lower image quality.
Games that aren't optimized are big turn off for me. I will give an example with Anna exciting affection - at the start changing the environment was taking more time, while in the latest builds it is a way better than before. I have to test on my desktop PC (16gb ram) to see how much actually ram is consuming the game with top quality images.
This is actually one of the best RPGM games that I played, the map isn't too big (still there are some crap regions that need to be removed for me) but it is a way easier to remember 6 different neighborhoods than 20. There is a 'Journal' which help a lot instead of walking around and clicking everything. There isn't grindy stats. I still don't get it why he isn't using RenPy because there aren't really any RPG elements.
I was moved from my RPGM game to ren_py because I don't want to hear still that same complaining about RPGM. Still the same. Hey dude your game is great, but that RPGM... I like your renders but I don't play RPGM games and similar. So that is why.
- Jun 10, 2017
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That's not what people talk about. The problem is not the realism of the moving part but their interest. Too many people use RPG Maker for what is in fact more an extended visual novel than anything else.
Take the classical case of the MC being able to move around the world :
With Renpy, you click on the door of his room, and now have the choice to click on the doors in the hallway or to click on the stairway. You chose the last option, then click on the main door of the house. Now the MC is outside, and you are looking at a map of the world. One more click, and the MC is now in a coffee shop. In 10 seconds and 4 click you moved him to another part of the town.
With RPG Maker you will have to move the MC case by case, then remember the path to the coffee shop while still moving case by case to it. Many click (when it's a version of RPG Maker which support the mouse) and at least one full minute to do this. For what ? What it add to the game to do this ? Nothing at all.
When it's a real RPG or at least a RPG-like game, alright, there's no problem. You have the choice of your next destination and you move to it. But people like icestor, iccreation or daniel k, that you named as "best RPGM developers", mostly don't do RPG-like. When you move, you have one and only one possible destination...
In the end, in their games, you pass more time moving to the next scene, than looking at the said scene. They are not bad story writers, not bad CG makers, but it's far to make them "best RPGM developers" ; their use of the engine make them more in the worse part than the best.
Anyway, if you don't do as they expected, most of the time you crash the game. Just because (at this time at least) they never thought outside of their box. "The player must go here, must do this", that's all they took in count. And when the player don't do this, don't go here, it become a whole no man's land where everything can happen ; and half of the time it happen and end badly.
There's a whole world between their best games in RPG maker and the average Asian game made with it. The last ones have less mini-games, more need to move from a part of the map to another, but at least you've a reason to move. The map isn't a big thing with only "one possible destination at this time". You can go where you want in the order you want and so write your own story in the game.
That's the purpose of RPG Maker and how a game with RPG Maker should be done. If you want a more directive game, or even a full visual novel one, you use an engine designed for Visual Novel ; whatever it's Ren'py, Tyrano Script or another one. But you don't use RPG Maker and force the player to pass half the game walking from a given point to another given point.
Too this, you also need to add the fact that Ren'py is optimized for picture display, while RPG Maker is really slow when it come to display picture which cover the full game window. With 5 years old computers, it can take few seconds to RPG Maker to display one single picture, when Ren'py do it instantly.
- May 23, 2018
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I am sure that some people like the type of games that RPGM is great for, I personally just prefer a different style of adult content game/vn. I play for the story progression and not for the many battles, item collecting, repetitions etc. that is frequent in many RPGM games. If developers are turning their back on the RPGM engine then I guess they might just feel another programme is better suited for their game/story? Personally I dislike the Zelda &/or Chibi look that is incorporated in many RPGM games. I also dislike having to use more than the mouse for these games, and many of the RPGM games I have tried in the past require keyboard usage or switching between both. :frown:
With that said I can see why RPGM might actually be a better engine than for example Ren'Py if you want to produce a game in the old sense of the word. The thing is that for games with primarily adult content, the audience is actually more interrested in the story than the game elements.
Understanding what the audience needs/wants is key to success, it all really boils down to what is basic supply and demand theory with the scales tipped in favour of the consumer. :evilsmile: If we wanted a challenging game rather than one with adult content we could play games like, the Fallout series for instance, or Divinity 2, or CS:GO, or Overwatch, or Starcraft 2, or Fortnite, or Heartstone, or Path of Exile, or the latest Fifa game, or a WRC game, the latest Madden game, or <insert name of a game in a genre you like to play> etc...
On this forum I find that people judge games by these 10 factors(in no particular order):
1) Ammount of available content.
2) The quality of the available content.
3) The storyline.
4) The frequency of updates.
5) Overall impression after playing/reading the game/vn.
6) Including/Excluding certain tags/kinks.
7) The HDD space needed for the game.
8) Reviews and opinions of others that have played the game.
9) Likeable characters.
10) Feelings & Personal experiences/views in life.
Those factors do not scream game mechanics to me. It could just as well be a novel, a movie, a tv-series or a fable told around a campfire.
TL/DR: My point is that while RPGM might be good for one thing it might not be good for what this audience wants to experience.
Anyway, get back to your lives people, the rant is over! XD
With that said I can see why RPGM might actually be a better engine than for example Ren'Py if you want to produce a game in the old sense of the word. The thing is that for games with primarily adult content, the audience is actually more interrested in the story than the game elements.
Understanding what the audience needs/wants is key to success, it all really boils down to what is basic supply and demand theory with the scales tipped in favour of the consumer. :evilsmile: If we wanted a challenging game rather than one with adult content we could play games like, the Fallout series for instance, or Divinity 2, or CS:GO, or Overwatch, or Starcraft 2, or Fortnite, or Heartstone, or Path of Exile, or the latest Fifa game, or a WRC game, the latest Madden game, or <insert name of a game in a genre you like to play> etc...
On this forum I find that people judge games by these 10 factors(in no particular order):
1) Ammount of available content.
2) The quality of the available content.
3) The storyline.
4) The frequency of updates.
5) Overall impression after playing/reading the game/vn.
6) Including/Excluding certain tags/kinks.
7) The HDD space needed for the game.
8) Reviews and opinions of others that have played the game.
9) Likeable characters.
10) Feelings & Personal experiences/views in life.
Those factors do not scream game mechanics to me. It could just as well be a novel, a movie, a tv-series or a fable told around a campfire.
TL/DR: My point is that while RPGM might be good for one thing it might not be good for what this audience wants to experience.
Anyway, get back to your lives people, the rant is over! XD
- Aug 12, 2017
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Personally I like both rpgm and Ren'Py... but there are games that made me hate both of them...
It all depends from the developer and how it uses them.
On rpmg:
- a game can become really heavy and buggy if one uses too many scripts/plugins without troubleshooting them. (e.g.Terebonkoff's Lida's adventure; it has more than 130 scripts and at least 60-70 of them are useless for the game)
- Or they use huge maps to move from town to town without giving a way to avoid it, so a gameplay of 2-3 hours becomes 10 hours for no reason.
On Ren'Py:
- some games (actually most of them) force you to constantly use the mouse for grinding. So a game of 2-3 hours becomes 10 hours for no reason with annoying clicking and moving of the mouse to the various boxes/buttons.
But on ren'py is easy for the gamers to use the console to avoid all this grinding so most gamers prefer it as an engine.
It all depends from the developer and how it uses them.
On rpmg:
- a game can become really heavy and buggy if one uses too many scripts/plugins without troubleshooting them. (e.g.Terebonkoff's Lida's adventure; it has more than 130 scripts and at least 60-70 of them are useless for the game)
- Or they use huge maps to move from town to town without giving a way to avoid it, so a gameplay of 2-3 hours becomes 10 hours for no reason.
On Ren'Py:
- some games (actually most of them) force you to constantly use the mouse for grinding. So a game of 2-3 hours becomes 10 hours for no reason with annoying clicking and moving of the mouse to the various boxes/buttons.
But on ren'py is easy for the gamers to use the console to avoid all this grinding so most gamers prefer it as an engine.
- Sep 11, 2017
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Mostly I think, it's because RPGM is better suited for creating "actual" games with exploration and combat than interactive porn. RPGM is fine creating indie games with their own maps, stories and enemies, but when creating porn games with it, the time between two sex scenes is often too long for many players. After all, people want to jerk off, while playing sex games.
I agree with the above. When making an RPGM game you need very good graphics and sound to make it work, otherwise it will be just visually boring.