Why do 3DCG fantasy/medieval games under perform on patreon?

[hakarlman]

Under latest games I set the following tags:
- [fantasy]
- [3dcg]
- sorted by [likes]
- excluded [abandoned] and [onhold] games
- Click here for the list

Fantasy/3dcg games under perform on Patreon. I only found two games that are succeeding and they're Long Live The Princess By Belle & Captured By Dark Elves.

Peasant's Quest generates around $1500.00 a month and the render quality of the game is quite good, but I'm not sure why he isn't making more given how long the game has been out.

The rest of the 3dcg based fantasy games generate very little revenue on Patreon. Why?

 

[Zippity]

I think it may have something to do with what fetishes and theme's fantasy VN/Games have a tendency to include, that may only cater to a smaller section of the over all readers/players of these things...

Many fantasy based Adult/Erotic VN/Games have this tendency to include stuff like Monster Girl/Boy sex, Futanari, Tentacle Sex, Furry, and/or a mix (the list goes on)... A majority of folks just are not into those kinds of more extreme things... There are some that play down the visuals a bit, perhaps making the Monsters look very human like so as not to really look so much like monsters… Such as using human sized Elves, or green colored humans with very small tusks as orcs, or humans with very few actual animal parts such as cat ears/tail only, etc... But even then, those types of themes are not preferred and/or liked by the vast majority, but may be easier to deal with by more folks... That isn't to say there are not a lot of folks into that stuff, but as I said, it's a small percentage of the overall readership/playerbase... So you will have a tendency for the numbers of paying fans to be less for those, when compared to an equivalent developed fantasy VN/Game with less or none of those things... Plus, you really have to take into account the style of the VN/Game and it's over all quality across the board...I

You can also attribute a tendency for folks to gravitate more towards settings that may be closer to reality... Which in turn feels by many, as a more immersive setting, being closer to their real life experiences and desires... A more relatable setting... Regardless if some outlandish story elements are included, like Mind Control/Corruption Drugs/Super Powers/etc...

But in the end it will all boil down to what the public likes or doesn't like in any given VN/Game...

For the 3 examples you gave, I believe those have been around on Patreon for a while now... The longer a VN/Game has been around, and depending on how well it is done, and lots of other factors... Will determine how well it does at getting donations... Something that has been around for less time, is still early in development, that may be just as good, could effect how many fans are willing to donate... As it slowly builds up a fan base that is able and/or willing to dish out money as a donation... $1500.00 a month, is pretty damn good in my book, especially depending on the location of the developers... Especially for it being donations... In a poorer country, that might be a half a years pay in a one month period... Even in the U.S.A. that might be the monthly mortgage payment for a house/condo...

Zip

 

[redknight00]

Fantasy relies heavily on the visuals, a good fantasy artist can make full use of their imagination and creativity to make an exciting new world for the player to explore. In that regard, 3d art is a big disadvantage since very few developers are able to create all of that from scratch. I mean it's not impossible, but someone that good would probably make more money with animations or in the game industry.

Since you mentioned, Peasant Quest is basically generic medieval town, generic forest, generic caves, with colored human (+point ears sometimes) for different races. Compare with a 2d game like Seeds of Chaos (7k on patreon), they have demons, minotaurs, orcs, four armed futas, tentacles, all with unique appearances and clothes.

 

[polywog]

Marketing. Making games is just the beginning. Doesn't matter how good your game is if nobody sees it.
you have to get the word out about your game
make a facebbok page for your game character, so her fans can reach her to propose marriage
the more husbands she has. the more patrons you get

Fantasy relies heavily on the visuals, a good fantasy artist can make full use of their imagination and creativity to make an exciting new world for the player to explore. In that regard, 3d art is a big disadvantage since very few developers are able to create all of that from scratch. I mean it's not impossible, but someone that good would probably make more money with animations or in the game industry.

Since you mentioned, Peasant Quest is basically generic medieval town, generic forest, generic caves, with colored human (+point ears sometimes) for different races. Compare with a 2d game like Seeds of Chaos (7k on patreon), they have demons, minotaurs, orcs, four armed futas, tentacles, all with unique appearances and clothes.

There are tons of free 3D assets for fantasy

 

[MrBree]

I can tell you right out that RPG Maker games are rather disliked around here. Various reasons for it, but it is what it is.
Given that roughly HALF that list is RPGM games, that probably is most of your answer right there.

(2 pages from your 4 page list..)

And quite a few of the remaining games are mostly 'fantastical' with occult or similar themes rather than based within the fantasy genre.

Now switch your search to 2dcg and you get 15 pages of games. 'Only' a third of that is RPGMaker.

The RPGMaker engine is a good fit for a fantasy theme. But not necessarily a good fit for 3DCG artwork. It is a much older engine with chibi spites. That doesn't mesh well with highly detailed 3dcg characters. So most of the better RPGMaker games avoid that with 2d drawings.

You must be registered to see the links

does just that, and rakes in 5k a month. (currently doing Kingdom of Deception, completed Noxian Nights)
Sierra Lee has several drawn RPG games under her belt as well (The Last Sovereign, Ouroboros, Desecration Of Wings, et al) and earns about the same.
The Legend of Queen Opala is garnering its maker 6k a month.
But that is dwarfed by Roundscape Adorevia which is garnering almost 14k a month.

(Keep in mind that Long Live the Princess takes in about 3.5k a month here.. )

So what you are looking for is really a subset of a subset...

You want fantasy games. But you want 3DCG. Not a popular subset of the genre, nor does it's most popular engine play well with it.

Further, 3D has a number of issues within the fantasy genre.

Base human characters are easy in 3dcg. Not so much with more 'unusual' beings. And as it is more realistic.. it doesn't easily lend itself well to the 'fantastic' part of the fantasy genre.

Keep in mind a few additional things:
- 90% of anything is garbage.
- we are talking about porn games.
- 3d is often 'easier' than doing drawings
- creating something unique is much hard than a generic setting.
- fantasy games also often have fantasy FETISHES to go with them

Thus, many 3d developers take the lazy route. They use as basic models and scenes as they can get away with. Which are almost always modern settings. Fantasy games are extra work, and for many drawn artwork is preferred. You need both good writing and good CG before 3d would be considered acceptable in a fantasy game. Long Live the Princess is successful where others fail because it has both... but it is doing only decently successful compared to others.

Tagging @Belle here since I'm sure he might have a say as to the success of his game.

 

[redknight00]

There are tons of free 3D assets for fantasy

That requires a level of skill, time and patience above your average game developer. Even though it looks easy (and probably is from a technical standpoint) it still requires a lot of thought and planning to make it look pretty.

Again, it's not impossible, but with the level of 3d art skill I see in porn games I doubt many would be able to pull it off, especially when they get more return for spending that extra effort polishing boobs and hair for the girls.

 

[polywog]

That requires a level of skill, time and patience above your average game developer. Even though it looks easy (and probably is from a technical standpoint) it still requires a lot of thought and planning to make it look pretty.

Again, it's not impossible, but with the level of 3d art skill I see in porn games I doubt many would be able to pull it off, especially when they get more return for spending that extra effort polishing boobs and hair for the girls.

agree to disagree It's painful to hear people say that they spent hours in Daz Studio making a single image. it's no harder to set up a scene in a 3D engine

 

[MrBree]

agree to disagree It's painful to hear people say that they spent hours in Daz Studio making a single image. it's no harder to set up a scene in a 3D engine

Perhaps it isn't 'hard' in your view, but we are still talking about a genre which has a specific set of expectations. Matching those expectations takes an extra level of work which many developers (remember -- 90% of anything is crap..) are not going to attempt vs taking the 'easy route' of generic, pre-made models. Add into the fact that VNs can add hundreds of images for each release, then even a slight increase to the level of difficulty can easily add thousands of hours.

It's no big deal to take an hour to create a castle? Think about the idea of taking 1 hour for each custom prop or setting... for hundreds of images.
@redknight00 is correct about the bigger priorities in porn games. Regardless of the setting, hot models win every time vs stupid castles in the background. But a hot fantasy girl (or a harem of them...) is another level of custom work on top of that.

 

[Rythan25]

Fetishes is probably the main concern for that genre... I love fantasy(medieval/elves, it and sci-fi (space) are tied for me... That said "Long Live the Princess" is probably the best one on Ren'py, and "Peasants Quest" in RPGM that use Daz3d... you also have "Roundscape Adoveria" if your into hand-drawn RPGM...

What stops me form liking a bunch of fantasy games is:
1. They get abandoned so quickly.... Look at Romancing the Kingdom, had promise and boom its gone..
2. Fetishes (perhaps the most important), it has some of the grossest fetishes in games... tons of rape, corruption, blackmail, and is the genre that most delves into watersport, scat, and vore

Honestly I know it has a target, but clearly its not "big enough"... if I see a fantasy game I immediately check it out, bonus points if it shows a sexy human or elf female, but if the second image is them getting gang-banged by fucking orcs I am out... I dont do "ugly fucks beauitful" games, they make me sick to my stomach....

 

[MrBree]

...
Honestly I know it has a target, but clearly its not "big enough"... if I see a fantasy game I immediately check it out, bonus points if it shows a sexy human or elf female, but if the second image is them getting gang-banged by fucking orcs I am out... I dont do "ugly fucks beauitful" games, they make me sick to my stomach....

I'm curious.. what would you be looking for in a fantasy genre game?
I'm not necessarily into the 'monster girls' fetish, but I love the idea of having girls whose beauty has 'unearthly' origins. Uniquely sexy.
I'm ignoring the fetish issue which I completely agree with.

 

[Zippity]

I can tell you right out that RPG Maker games are rather disliked around here. Various reasons for it, but it is what it is.
Given that roughly HALF that list is RPGM games, that probably is most of your answer right there.

(2 pages from your 4 page list..)

And quite a few of the remaining games are mostly 'fantastical' with occult or similar themes rather than based within the fantasy genre.

Now switch your search to 2dcg and you get 15 pages of games. 'Only' a third of that is RPGMaker.

The RPGMaker engine is a good fit for a fantasy theme. But not necessarily a good fit for 3DCG artwork. It is a much older engine with chibi spites. That doesn't mesh well with highly detailed 3dcg characters. So most of the better RPGMaker games avoid that with 2d drawings.

You must be registered to see the links

does just that, and rakes in 5k a month. (currently doing Kingdom of Deception, completed Noxian Nights)
Sierra Lee has several drawn RPG games under her belt as well (The Last Sovereign, Ouroboros, Desecration Of Wings, et al) and earns about the same.
The Legend of Queen Opala is garnering its maker 6k a month.
But that is dwarfed by Roundscape Adorevia which is garnering almost 14k a month.

(Keep in mind that Long Live the Princess takes in about 3.5k a month here.. )

So what you are looking for is really a subset of a subset...

You want fantasy games. But you want 3DCG. Not a popular subset of the genre, nor does it's most popular engine play well with it.

Further, 3D has a number of issues within the fantasy genre.

Base human characters are easy in 3dcg. Not so much with more 'unusual' beings. And as it is more realistic.. it doesn't easily lend itself well to the 'fantastic' part of the fantasy genre.

Keep in mind a few additional things:
- 90% of anything is garbage.
- we are talking about porn games.
- 3d is often 'easier' than doing drawings
- creating something unique is much hard than a generic setting.
- fantasy games also often have fantasy FETISHES to go with them

Thus, many 3d developers take the lazy route. They use as basic models and scenes as they can get away with. Which are almost always modern settings. Fantasy games are extra work, and for many drawn artwork is preferred. You need both good writing and good CG before 3d would be considered acceptable in a fantasy game. Long Live the Princess is successful where others fail because it has both... but it is doing only decently successful compared to others.

Tagging @Belle here since I'm sure he might have a say as to the success of his game.

On the subject of Role Playing Game Maker (RPGM), I totally agree... Many folks, myself included, avidly avoid any RPGM games... Only around 1 to 3 percent of the RPGM engine based VN/Games actively avoid using the top down adventure game portion of the engine... And it's many of those Adventure and/or old Nintendo like game play systems that have a tendency to drive away a vast majority of players/readers... Regardless of how much content they may have, or how well the text might be written... Add in that fantasy stuff, and suddenly you are narrowing the numbers of people possibly willing to give it a try, even further... There are lots of folks who like and/or don't mind RPGM based VN/Games... But typically it's shunned as a erotic/adult VN/Game engine by the vast majority, without even giving the product a chance at all...

I've tried several RPGM based VN/Games over the years, and in pretty much every case I was annoyed by it... I liked playing those RPG style games back in the day, when I had a Nintendo game system... But RPGM style VN/Games in this niche market have this tendency to feel (for me at least) less like a story driven Visual Novel and more like a time wasting game of movement, puzzle solving, tedious quests, low res sprite based graphics, childish music and sound effects, etc... It's just not a style of game I find to be fun to play... And the same is typical of the vast majority... So in turn those games fall into a sub category of avoided games, that you have then narrowed down further by adding in the Fantasy theme, which then in turn may be further narrowed down again by other elements people may not like (as I mentioned in my 1st reply to this thread)...

Zip

 

[Rythan25]

I'm curious.. what would you be looking for in a fantasy genre game?
I'm not necessarily into the 'monster girls' fetish, but I love the idea of having girls whose beauty has 'unearthly' origins. Uniquely sexy.
I'm ignoring the fetish issue which I completely agree with.

Honestly good story... and by good story it doesnt have to be Lord of The Rings... it can be cliche as shit, but entertaining...

Young Farm boy that self-taught himself how to use a sword goes out into the bigger world in search of adventure. He eventually finds himself in the middle of dark plot to overthrow the kingdom/world, can he and the band of misfits he finds along the way push back the encroaching darkness ? - I'd be happy with that plot, with or without combat (RPGM vs Ren'py).

I do however despise the

Your the daughter of the last Sorcerer Supreme of the land, through your veins flows power unmatched, can you be as great as your father before you and keep the land safe from demons, orcs, and other non-humans that threatened the peace your father fought so hard to preserve, or will you succumb to their mighty dicks and be a fucking joke of a character that sluts her way down to shitville ? - this is the kind of plot that makes me want to punch a catgirl in the face... and I fucking LOVE catgirls !!! Think of the catgirls people/devs !!

As for races I like the attractive races for the player and allies... Humans, Elves (High Elves preferably, but wont say no to Wood Elves or even Dark Elves "as long as they are blue like most lore, and not damn dark/chocolate color as those are Drow") half-kin (Catgirls, Doggirls, Wolfgirls, Foxgirls -basically humans with ears and tails, some fur is ok like Felicia form Darkstalkers) Succubus, Vampires.

For bad people that dont get sex scenes unless its with their own ugly race-mates... Orcs, Goblins, Demons (the grotesque kind), Minotaur, Tentacle Beast, etc...

 

[Zippity]

Fetishes is probably the main concern for that genre... I love fantasy(medieval/elves, it and sci-fi (space) are tied for me... That said "Long Live the Princess" is probably the best one on Ren'py, and "Peasants Quest" in RPGM that use Daz3d... you also have "Roundscape Adoveria" if your into hand-drawn RPGM...

What stops me form liking a bunch of fantasy games is:
1. They get abandoned so quickly.... Look at Romancing the Kingdom, had promise and boom its gone..
2. Fetishes (perhaps the most important), it has some of the grossest fetishes in games... tons of rape, corruption, blackmail, and is the genre that most delves into watersport, scat, and vore

Honestly I know it has a target, but clearly its not "big enough"... if I see a fantasy game I immediately check it out, bonus points if it shows a sexy human or elf female, but if the second image is them getting gang-banged by fucking orcs I am out... I dont do "ugly fucks beauitful" games, they make me sick to my stomach....

That's pretty much on par with what I mentioned in my first reply to this thread... There are so many fetishes and tropes, that for whatever reasons, have this tendency to by used by Developers of Fantasy based Erotic/Adult Visual Novels and Games, even more so then in other VN/Games... There are some fetishes I consider harsher then others, and others I feel are gross with no sexual appeal what so ever... And if some players/readers are into those sorts of things, more power to them...

When I read/play a fantasy themed VN/Game and suddenly a woman is having sex with a werewolf, to me that was just bestiality disguised by sex between a half animal and a human type character... Which I find extremely disgusting and revolting... Same thing with Tentacle sex... For some folks, they might be able to imagine the tentacle as some type of phallic symbol/device, but to me it's just plain gross to look at or think of, regardless how it's used... As Rythan25 pointed out, the ugly beasts like typical fantasy orcs, goblins, minotaurs, were creatures, etc. having or trying to have sex with human like women or men, just grosses me out, and is a BIG TURN OFF... I've quit reading/playing VN/Games based purely on that sort of non-sense, regardless of how good the VN/Game may have been up to that point... I can deal with a certain level of lewdness and/or fetish usage, but there are several lines I feel should never be crossed... And I'm not alone in that at all... And it's these sorts of things that further narrow down the available audience and fan base, these sorts of VN/Games are going to have...

Zip

 

[redknight00]

Honestly I know it has a target, but clearly its not "big enough"... if I see a fantasy game I immediately check it out, bonus points if it shows a sexy human or elf female, but if the second image is them getting gang-banged by fucking orcs I am out... I dont do "ugly fucks beauitful" games, they make me sick to my stomach....

There's probably a smaller public for fantasy, but the same can be said for anything that's not vanilla (and I would include incest since it's pretty much the new vanilla), the question was about why 3d struggle while 2d have an easier time. Looking at the most popular 3d fantasies, the highest earning is Belle with a little over 3k USD (while the other others are around1-2k) and 2d has a couple of developers above 5k.

As for the fetishes, you do have a point that they are not for everyone, but notice that some of the highest payrolls are precisely for developers who go crazy in the tentacle department.

 

[polywog]

Perhaps it isn't 'hard' in your view, but we are still talking about a genre which has a specific set of expectations. Matching those expectations takes an extra level of work which many developers (remember -- 90% of anything is crap..) are not going to attempt vs taking the 'easy route' of generic, pre-made models. Add into the fact that VNs can add hundreds of images for each release, then even a slight increase to the level of difficulty can easily add thousands of hours.

It's no big deal to take an hour to create a castle? Think about the idea of taking 1 hour for each custom prop or setting... for hundreds of images.
@redknight00 is correct about the bigger priorities in porn games. Regardless of the setting, hot models win every time vs stupid castles in the background. But a hot fantasy girl (or a harem of them...) is another level of custom work on top of that.

You missed the part where you can buy the castle "pre made" for less than a pair of shoes from Daz.
My point wasn't about modeling your own, I even said "There are tons of free 3D assets for fantasy"
Export the "hot models" from Daz into a 3D engine

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Zippity]

There's probably a smaller public for fantasy, but the same can be said for anything that's not vanilla (and I would include incest since it's pretty much the new vanilla), the question was about why 3d struggle while 2d have an easier time. Looking at the most popular 3d fantasies, the highest earning is Belle with a little over 3k USD (while the other others are around1-2k) and 2d has a couple of developers above 5k.

As for the fetishes, you do have a point that they are not for everyone, but notice that some of the highest payrolls are precisely for developers who go crazy in the tentacle department.

When it comes to 3D models/backdrops versus 2D models/backdrops, it does seem to be a preference by developers of Fantasy themed VN/Games to us 2D models/backdrops... I think it's just easier to find artists that can draw characters and backgrounds in 2D, both in a timely manner and in many cases with better Fantasy flair... Over finding a skilled 3D artist who can do the work in a timely manner, for a Fantasy setting, with that same sense of flair... 3D modeling is tougher, when you get outside of the more vanilla character models and setting pieces... Sure, there are plenty of pre-generated Fantasy themed objects and backgrounds, but for the more fantastical creature models, not as much is pre-generated... So you either need to have the skill and time to do it yourself, or you end up having to pay someone else (driving up the costs because of the time and skill needed) to do it...

In most 3D modeled fantasy VN/Games you mostly see human like characters, even with fantasy creatures... Usually in the form of creatures like fairies, elves, ghosts, and humans with varying skin colors... When it comes to the highly fantastical creatures, you just don't see them hardly at all, because of the difficulty in making them from scratch, and/or the rarity of easy to obtain pre-generated models/objects... So things like a-typical bi-pedal werewolves all wolfed out, you just don't see in 3D all that much, if at all... And when you do see the more fantastical fantasy creatures, they are usually creatures like pre-generated dragons, or slime like blob creatures, or tentacled plant creatures... Usually because it's easier to find pre-generated object/creatures like those, that can either be easily altered and/or manipulated... Or when throwing together a new creature, like a slimy blob creature, it's just easier to make a blob of muck that is then slightly opposable... Or an ordinary pre-generated plant object, that is then modifiable to make the vines, branches, stems, and leaves appear to move of their own volition... Stuff like that...

Zip

 

[Avaron1974]

It's one of those that depends on the game.

There are a number of fantasy games that do quite well but those are quite big games. You've got Last Sovereign, Roundscape Adorevia and Legend of Queen Opala that are developed by people with proven backgrounds and put a lot of effort into what they do.

They also took a while to grow.

Sierra Lee, creator of Last Sovereign, has several games under her belt with some of those making it to Steam. She's also worked on other games for other devs and made a name for herself as a decent dev.

The team behind Roundscape have games like Uprising under them with Roundscape itself being an incredibly large RPG with content still being added to it and another game coming out eventually on Steam.

Gabe of Opala fame is now on the third game in the series and while development has slowed down a bit Origins is already quite a large game.

They all have a fanbase coming from various games. With how saturated the market is for H games now compared to the amount of people willing to back them it's harder and harder for new devs of any genre to find a playerbase to make a living off with their first game. It takes 2 maybe 3 before people are willing to move their funds around.

You also have to remember that some people have been backing their games for some time and are big fans of those games. In order to pull support they need to be offered something special.

Sadly incest games of any quality seem to find a playerbase just because incest. Most incest games released are shit tier with very few doing anything we haven't seen many times before yet they have reviews saying how awesome they are because, again, incest.

Releasing a 0.1 generic fantasy game just won't cut it. You need to release something that grabs a few people and then build on that.

It will take some time to build a player base. It's devs looking to make quick cash that constantly fail. Those days are long gone when a new game can bring in thousands.

 

[polywog]

Amateur games can't compete with the big boys

 

[polywog]

When it comes to 3D models/backdrops versus 2D models/backdrops, it does seem to be a preference by developers of Fantasy themed VN/Games to us 2D models/backdrops... I think it's just easier to find artists that can draw characters and backgrounds in 2D, both in a timely manner and in many cases with better Fantasy flair... Over finding a skilled 3D artist who can do the work in a timely manner, for a Fantasy setting, with that same sense of flair... 3D modeling is tougher, when you get outside of the more vanilla character models and setting pieces... Sure, there are plenty of pre-generated Fantasy themed objects and backgrounds, but for the more fantastical creature models, not as much is pre-generated... So you either need to have the skill and time to do it yourself, or you end up having to pay someone else (driving up the costs because of the time and skill needed) to do it...

In most 3D modeled fantasy VN/Games you mostly see human like characters, even with fantasy creatures... Usually in the form of creatures like fairies, elves, ghosts, and humans with varying skin colors... When it comes to the highly fantastical creatures, you just don't see them hardly at all, because of the difficulty in making them from scratch, and/or the rarity of easy to obtain pre-generated models/objects... So things like a-typical bi-pedal werewolves all wolfed out, you just don't see in 3D all that much, if at all... And when you do see the more fantastical fantasy creatures, they are usually creatures like pre-generated dragons, or slime like blob creatures, or tentacled plant creatures... Usually because it's easier to find pre-generated object/creatures like those, that can either be easily altered and/or manipulated... Or when throwing together a new creature, like a slimy blob creature, it's just easier to make a blob of muck that is then slightly opposable... Or an ordinary pre-generated plant object, that is then modifiable to make the vines, branches, stems, and leaves appear to move of their own volition... Stuff like that...

Zip

Are you looking just on Patreon? cuz there are over 300 websites of fantasy 3D out there with all kinds of creatures.
even Daz has Dragon models

 

[Zippity]

Are you looking just on Patreon? cuz there are over 300 websites of fantasy 3D out there with all kinds of creatures.
even Daz has Dragon models
View attachment 295249

As I said, just look at your example... It is a human like elf... Those are much more prevalent in 3D Fantasy Models, as they are either more available, or easier to modify... But to find things like typical Were creatures, that are 4 legged and/or bi-pedal, all animal-ed up, they are much harder to find, generate, modify, or even find... You see them in things like CGI based creature Movies, but not this niche market, all that much... Dragons are very popular, so you can find those... But other creatures like giant hairy movie like beasts and animals and so on, not so much if at all... Whereas in 2D they are much simpler to create and alter, and may even be less time consuming... There are some 3D fantasy creatures, beyond the human like creatures (like your elf picture is mostly just an human with some elf features), used here and there, but they are less prevalent and harder to find/create...

And I was not talking about general commercial quality 3D art... Hell, I have all sorts of 3D style adult artwork and collectors cards from various artists around the world... I was talking about Character Models and so on, useable or used in the Erotic/Adult Visual Novels and Games industry...

Zip