Why so many thread just became target practice against Devs?

maisbordeldemerde

La rabia del pueblo
Donor
Dec 19, 2016
535
1,023
And what's exactly stopping you? Is my approval needed for this? Should I fill some form?
"Excuse me, sir, but you called my friend an idiot, so I am going to defend him. Do you mind if I call you an asshole? Is that ok with you? I am worried you may feel bad about this, so I want to be sure."
Damnit, now I imagined situation like this and can't stop laughing XD
Wtf are you saying? My point was to say it's actually pointless to tell someone he's a white knight of the internet if he gets valid arguments. At first I thought you were talking about El bacca about that but I might have misunderstood you, maybe you were talking about some other posts you've read before
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
Modder
Donor
Respected User
Jun 10, 2017
10,313
15,200
Of course some people like this fetish more than that or this art more than the other and so on. It's like always a matter of taste, which can't really be argued about.
And here's part of the problem. You shouldn't argue about fetishes, but still it's mostly what's done and from where come a big part of the "not wanted (in here) comments". How many, "the author is shit", happen right after the said author added a small touch of NTR in his game ? I took NTR as example because it's the fetish which generate the more passion, for and against it, but it apply for almost all the fetishes.
We are a community (players of adult games) made of communities (feet fetishists, NTR lovers, incest lovers, etc.), themselves splitted in communities (RPG Maker lovers, Ren'py addicts, etc.). Theoretically, we can live together because no one have a single fetish and no game focus on a single fetish. But in practice, more and more people come here, thinking that their own taste is the only reliable one and that they must defend it at all cost, while destroying anyone who don't share it.
People act as selfish brats. They think that, because the dev talk with them (which is the case on Patreon and sometimes here), then he also owe them something ;
"hey stupid dev, since you're here, talking with us, do as we say !" And if the dev don't talk, it's worse because he become some kind of snob who think "he's better than us".

In his 2 cents, @muttdoggy said a lot of truth. Personally I think that (globally speaking) a message of less than 2 lines can't be a comment. It's just an opinion, and who care about an opinion ? Even the dev himself shouldn't care because, "I love your game", doesn't help more that, "I hate what you do". What make you love/hate it ? Will you still love/hate it in two month when you'll see that "this" took an important place at start, but is in fact a secondary part of the game ?
But obviously, the number of lines can't be a criteria for moderators. In the old good time, when the net was just starting its life, the rule on Usenet was to read a "sub" (what's the exact English name ?) for 15 days before posting. It was the rule because each "sub" had its own culture, its own rules, and spending two weeks just reading helped to learn them. There's already the "three posts before creating a thread" rule, perhaps that a "X days with a connection before posting a message" isn't a bad idea...
 

Yoshiiki

Member
Game Developer
Nov 10, 2017
273
220
So basically you say, that is what it is because it is, so what the fuck and shut up or not, it doesn't matter, or is it?
Well you got a very fatalist view , i can relate :)
They way you are describing this, makes it sound kind of nihilistic... And I am neither, it's just text isn't that good at expressing stuff.
But no, I don't say sit there and accept it like a bitch. If you can prove those accusations are wrong, prove it. If someone is attacking you personally, ignore them (though, maybe engage? Bring your biggest guns? Make a nice shitshow? People enjoy a good shitshow, I know I would :D) or you can talk to them, ask "why?". There is a lot that can be done, even a different approach may be a thing.. But don't try changing people, it's a stupidly long propaganda process you can't do.

I hate them due to all the extra software that has to be installed to be able to patch them or play them. Also on top of that, even if you do apply a patch to make it in English. It still may not work.
Extra software? You mean RTPs? True enough for all RPG Makers other than MV - there is no RTP, all comes in one package. Even better, it can strip unused assets so size isn't as big. But... You know that a dev can include all needed RTP when it comes to old RPGM versions? Even strip unused assets. So why not go to extra length and make it easier for people? Yeah, just give them link to RTPs and we are done. Also, glad that MV doesn't have that problem, whole idea was good, 15 years ago, now it's not.
On the English issue... Why do we need a patch? Why isn't it released in English? Guess whose fault it is? :D
Yep, Japanese devs, most of them don't give a damn about global/western market. There is a cultural reason for it that I am not going to dig into right now.

Wtf are you saying? My point was to say it's actually pointless to tell someone he's a white knight of the internet if he gets valid arguments. At first I thought you were talking about El bacca about that but I might have misunderstood you, maybe you were talking about some other posts you've read before
I like that I see some white knights here and there
Oxford dictionary: white knight - A person or thing that comes to someone's aid.

Nothing about arguments being valid or not, nothing about pointing my finger at someone. It's the term "white knight" that has it's connotations to it. If you defend a friend, you are his white knight, what's wrong with defending a friend? Or things you like? But the idea of asking someone if you should call them [insert something here] made me laugh, that's all :D

And here's part of the problem. You shouldn't argue about fetishes, but still it's mostly what's done and from where come a big part of the "not wanted (in here) comments". How many, "the author is shit", happen right after the said author added a small touch of NTR in his game ? I took NTR as example because it's the fetish which generate the more passion, for and against it, but it apply for almost all the fetishes.
We are a community (players of adult games) made of communities (feet fetishists, NTR lovers, incest lovers, etc.), themselves splitted in communities (RPG Maker lovers, Ren'py addicts, etc.). Theoretically, we can live together because no one have a single fetish and no game focus on a single fetish. But in practice, more and more people come here, thinking that their own taste is the only reliable one and that they must defend it at all cost, while destroying anyone who don't share it.
People act as selfish brats. They think that, because the dev talk with them (which is the case on Patreon and sometimes here), then he also owe them something ;
"hey stupid dev, since you're here, talking with us, do as we say !" And if the dev don't talk, it's worse because he become some kind of snob who think "he's better than us".
That's very true, people are damn selfish. Company analogy I brought earlier works well here. You answer to your shareholders/money daddy, there is an idea that needs monetary support and it needs to be delivered. Everything that goes beyond that idea is not part of the agreement. Most of the time you must prove it's a valid change to make. But relationship between pledgers and creators most of the time isn't the same as you see in business *cough cough* paypal pressuring patreon *cough cough*. It's also a different model than just selling a game. There are good points to it (example: communication that you don't have with big companies) and bad points (example: people demanding more than agreement was about).
That's why companies have PR people, they know how to talk with customers. As a creator, being friendly and active is important, at the same time you need to know when to stand your ground or you will be eaten alive.
But obviously, the number of lines can't be a criteria for moderators. In the old good time, when the net was just starting its life, the rule on Usenet was to read a "sub" (what's the exact English name ?) for 15 days before posting. It was the rule because each "sub" had its own culture, its own rules, and spending two weeks just reading helped to learn them. There's already the "three posts before creating a thread" rule, perhaps that a "X days with a connection before posting a message" isn't a bad idea...
Yeah... It was back then. Now I would expect people to sit for 15 days and then shit on something. New times require new approaches.

Btw. Yes, let's do IQ tests before registration. Better, let's assume every non constructive comment is an underage brat and ban them on those terms. No, wait, let's go further, every negative comment gets a ban. It's a damn purge time and after we are done, we can get soap, water, make some bubbles, maybe have a campfire going, sing a song or two. It will be awesome, all non productive stuff goes out and we will achieve... What do we want to achieve? Never mind, it will come up anyway. I fully support this.
 

Aeilion

Member
Jun 14, 2017
125
144
It's easy..
Horny kids equals 0% common sense.

I think the majority of the people who complain(or to say it better, act like pathetic idiots)are teenagers or young adults who are only interested in seeing the "good stuff" in the adult games on this site.
And think that Adult games are just like a video on Pornhub where they can get a quick fix and go on with their "life".
But the moment they play an game an realize they actually need to put time into a game to get some scenes and development is very slow (at best) with these games... They rage because they can not get to see the good stuff.

Same goes for the people who are bombing this site around a time of a new release of a popular game and ask if the game is out yet before checking it out..
Same goes for the people who ask questions on a topic and the answer is just a couple posts above it or easy to find with the Search button.

All boils down to this (for me).
These days Teens can get everything they want in a heartbeat...
-Want to see a movie?, 1 click away.
-Want to see porn, 1 click away.
-Want to order some food, 1 click away.
-Want to play some c.o.d, 1 click away..

So a lot of them don't have the patience anymore to put some real effort in to something, and the moment they need to...They don't like it because they are not used to it..And they will act like a spoiled little brat in a supermarket who isn't allowed a candy...
Rather lazy then tired...

I am only active on the lesser populair games on this site because if you try to have a normal converstation on a topic like Big brother, Dreams of Desire, Teachers pets (to name a few).... Well impossible..

Love this site nevertheless...
But an IQ test before signing up would be a good thing :p .
If we could avoid this kind of prejudice and generalization it would also be a good thing. Age or intellect has nothing to do here. I'm sure it's possible for an engineer out of MIT to post a non-interesting comment, abbreviated, to say the dev is a nozzle. Or the opposite that someone who does not necessarily have the same intellectual ability is quite capable of making good comments. Whether they are 16 or 49 years ... Just as we can all have days when we are not in shape and other where we are super happy and therefore our way of acting differ.
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
Modder
Donor
Respected User
Jun 10, 2017
10,313
15,200
Btw. Yes, let's do IQ tests before registration. Better, let's assume every non constructive comment is an underage brat and ban them on those terms. No, wait, let's go further, every negative comment gets a ban. It's a damn purge time and after we are done, we can get soap, water, make some bubbles, maybe have a campfire going, sing a song or two. It will be awesome, all non productive stuff goes out and we will achieve... What do we want to achieve? Never mind, it will come up anyway. I fully support this.
You're a little tense, right ? Starting with my, "perhaps that...", to end giving me (us ?) those thought, wow. Being polite and respectful doesn't mean that you need to always agree, it just mean that you acknowledge the (undeniable) fact that you talk to a human being, not to your neighbor's dog.
 

Yoshiiki

Member
Game Developer
Nov 10, 2017
273
220
@
Maybe I should add another line break. Part you quoted wasn't a reply to you :p
Buuuut saying I am tense while quoting that? No, I am not, we should totally, like, you know, purge all negativity. Same with, like, you know, the IQ test thingy. Like, you know, deal with it all. And if someone thinks that the quoted part was written, like, you know, to mock idea and top with sarcasm, your, like, totally wrong, like... you know, totally.


Back to serious reality. Yes, being respectful and polite is a route someone can go while not agreeing with things. You don't need to be a dick to disagree. Expecting everyone to be like that is some kind of wishful thinking. Some can be a dick and deliver creative response... or they may sound like that. People are different and they deliver replies in a different way.
Aeilion post is a very valid point, that's why I mock idea of this weird censorship that came up in two posts. Though, at least IQ test sounded like a joke :D
 

Centurion

Active Member
Jan 20, 2018
577
388
I think you didn't got the point. There should be no place for devs that are: lazy, don't care, just want to milk money and so on, those types. And thanks to them, ricochets easily hit other, honest and hard working devs, those however should just continue what they are doing, actions and time will be the best way to prove who is wrong and who is right. Much better than words and promises.
I think I understood fine. The quote I replied to was "there should be no peace".

There's a big difference between expressing ones opinion and spamming the thread over and over with the same thing. Also a big difference between expressing opinions and an ongoing smear campaign. And big difference between commenters and trouble makers. Hence my belief that a handful of people shouldn't be making decisions to run a developer out of the forum on behalf of over 400,000 members who are able to make up our own minds without a self-appointed posse deciding for us unless you own or run the forum.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think they should express it but not seek to destroy other member's ability to enjoy something that we might not like. If someone doesn't like something there are plenty of other threads/games they can go to.
 

Yoshiiki

Member
Game Developer
Nov 10, 2017
273
220
I think I understood fine. The quote I replied to was "there should be no peace".

There's a big difference between expressing ones opinion and spamming the thread over and over with the same thing. Also a big difference between expressing opinions and an ongoing smear campaign. And big difference between commenters and trouble makers. Hence my belief that a handful of people shouldn't be making decisions to run a developer out of the forum on behalf of over 400,000 members who are able to make up our own minds without a self-appointed posse deciding for us unless you own or run the forum.
Then it seems like I misunderstood. If it's just a handful of people spamming over and over then yeah, that's annoying. I had more of 'majority leaves a negative comment and moves on' kind of thing in mind. But that changes the issue completely. Though, this is when moderator steps in with "Hey, mate, you made 15 posts, all were just saying 'ya shit!', either add a reason or stop spamming" and not in a PM, on the thread itself.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think they should express it but not seek to destroy other member's ability to enjoy something that we might not like. If someone doesn't like something there are plenty of other threads/games they can go to.
Damnit, this part wasn't saved in a draft before maintenance... annoying. Once more:
Yeah, but some people just can't let go, if it's a case like that: as I wrote, moderator steps in.
Then we have dicks that do it for fun, because there are people that will seek to destroy other people's fun or life, simply for shit and giggles. But as with people that can't let go, quite easy to spot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Centurion

bas

retired
Donor
Respected User
Former Staff
May 6, 2017
3,987
30,401
The few trolls we have are the only toxic element of this site, and they should be banned after the briefest of warnings - if any. Since the moderators cannot be everywhere at once, members must report them.

Not talking about reporting the endless arguments about what is/is not considered NTR, or the lazy-ass questions when the answer is in the OP, or literally in the post directly above theirs. Those are mostly just annoying as all fuck. When they get hateful, report them. Otherwise ignore them.

And that last part is something I need to get better at myself.
 

El bacca Del Chew

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2017
1,813
4,604
Then it seems like I misunderstood. If it's just a handful of people spamming over and over then yeah, that's annoying.
If a dev is not good, don't respect his word or else..fine we can say that but writing over and over that is an asshole
Was my point from the start :)
Thread should be places where you share tips, hints, critics about the art/mechanics/engine. Where you can express your views about the dev, in terms of communication/commitment...but lately the "there's should be no peace army" is just in to insults the guys and if you ask why or try to understand why the dev may be wrong, you just become a target yourself too.
That is all i wanted to say here :) (in the first place)
 

Yoshiiki

Member
Game Developer
Nov 10, 2017
273
220
Was my point from the start :)
Thread should be places where you share tips, hints, critics about the art/mechanics/engine. Where you can express your views about the dev, in terms of communication/commitment...but lately the "there's should be no peace army" is just in to insults the guys and if you ask why or try to understand why the dev may be wrong, you just become a target yourself too.
That is all i wanted to say here :) (in the first place)
Well...
Hello,
I've noticed lately that many thread became only massive shit storm against the devs.
And apparently this massive shit storm is just few people farting too much xD
Though, it still rises a good discussion that is far from pointless.
"and if you ask why or try to understand why the dev may be wrong, you just become a target yourself too." Love me a good banter, where can I join?
 

tooldev

Member
Feb 9, 2018
159
171
If a developer sticks around here its usually for the simple reason of marketing. Everyone is aware of the base nature of F95 and knowing that your game will be pirated and still sticking around is not leaving any other conclusion.

There are many forums that are focused on devs only and meant for exchange etc. F95 is not a developer forum. And yet still many people from here are pledging/supporting devs. You cant flip a coin and only chose a single side - it will at times also show the opposite side and that's the stuff you dont like. Many games here are based on pirated stuff to begin with thus the tolerance level for 'milking' is simply lower than on other forums where people know less about assets used etc. The community here is generally pretty knowledgable as far as i can tell - so i am not surprised that devs get a bashing here.
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
Modder
Donor
Respected User
Jun 10, 2017
10,313
15,200
There's a big difference between expressing ones opinion and spamming the thread over and over with the same thing.
Especially when there's a "like" button. I think that everyone here is smart enough to understand that a, "your game is shit", with 100 likes, mean that the game can potentially be disliked by at least 101 persons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Centurion

superbear

Newbie
Jun 19, 2017
40
21
I see nothing wrong with calling out devs as long as you give an explaination as to why said dev is bad. The real problem starts is when you get these single line insults to a dev without any example or reasoning, this in turn triggers some fans of that dev to start defending said dev and before you know it the thread gets hijacked into a personal argument. Its annoying as fuck trying to read through a thread littered with an argument that really should be done through PM.
 

Yoshiiki

Member
Game Developer
Nov 10, 2017
273
220
I see nothing wrong with calling out devs as long as you give an explaination as to why said dev is bad. The real problem starts is when you get these single line insults to a dev without any example or reasoning, this in turn triggers some fans of that dev to start defending said dev and before you know it the thread gets hijacked into a personal argument. Its annoying as fuck trying to read through a thread littered with an argument that really should be done through PM.
Yeah, but if it's in PM I can't read it.
Maybe new tab for a thread? Like banter? xD