VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.4.0] [Ceolag]

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Here's a premise for all of the Kaija haters to consider:

Neverwhere Tales is instead written where the Kaija role is the MC role, and the Kaija character is now the oldest daughter of the Grand Master of the Templars. MC grew up with Kaija. Her family sheltered her from the Templars and the evils of Neverwhere, trying to give her a more normal life. When MC discovered and joined the order, he was eventually asked to act as a kind of guardian to her - he was already one of her closest friends, he just needed to continue being so. Given their prior relationship, and the time spent with her, he eventually fell for her romantically as well (think "The Bodyguard" movie - cue Whitney Houston version of "I Will Always Love You"). He had to keep things from her to protect and shelter her, but he did honestly love her.

Then shit hits the fan. He goes against orders to protect her when she is in actual physical danger, revealing the rest of what he is and what he's been doing all along.

She feels betrayed. She feels misled. She feels she was being treated like a child rather than being allowed to see and decide for herself. She gets angry at the MC and he tries to explain he grew to genuinely love her and only kept things hidden for her safety and because, after all those years, he was afraid to disappoint her and lose her.

If y'all were playing that version of the MC, I suspect you'd feel like she was just an ungrateful bitch that didn't understand you and your sacrifices. That she was being an unreasonable child, so fuck her. Of course, this is the tack you all are taking now, with the roles as they are. I think either way this VN was presented, you'd either hate her for being the character she is now, or hate her for being the character MC is now (you know, the ungrateful bitch). Your ego only allows you to support the side of the equation you are on: you would resent her for seeing you as a betrayer just as much as you resent her seeing her as a betrayer. And I see that as hypocritical.

Yes we know, you have said a few times and every time we shoot it down. Yet you keep regurgitating this gender bias crap. One last time, the short version: I don't give a shit what is between their legs, if a person deliberately lies, deceives, manipulates, someone they supposedly care for then they are an asshole no matter what is between their legs or what their background is. In fact the biggest asshole of all is the damn father (surprise he isn't a girl). Since he isn't an LI, there is less focus on his bullshit actions. Kaija get so much focus because she is one of the four LIs. Otherwise no one would talk about her.

The MC is also an asshole if he screws the girl at the pub, if you get on that path. Since us men are such horrible hypocrites, I'm sure you can find some girls to hang out with and drivel about how bad men are and where have all the good men gone. . However, I'd like to see you drop this gender bias crap and go back to your more interesting commentary.

 

[xapican]

I hope she'll end up on a stake.

preferible on mine! for what use, I have "Vlad the Impaler"?

 

[ThorinKing]

Yes we know, you have said a few times and every time we shoot it down. Yet you keep regurgitating this gender bias crap. One last time, the short version: I don't give a shit what is between their legs, if a person deliberately lies, deceives, manipulates, someone they supposedly care for then they are an asshole no matter what is between their legs or what their background is. In fact the biggest asshole of all is the damn father (surprise he isn't a girl). Since he isn't an LI, there is less focus on his bullshit actions. Kaija get so much focus because she is one of the four LIs. Otherwise no one would talk about her.

The MC is also an asshole if he screws the girl at the pub, if you get on that path. Since us men are such horrible hypocrites, I'm sure you can find some girls to hang out with and drivel about how bad men are and where have all the good men gone. . However, I'd like to see you drop this gender bias crap and go back to your more interesting commentary.

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[Raziel_8]

Yes we know, you have said a few times and every time we shoot it down. Yet you keep regurgitating this gender bias crap. One last time, the short version: I don't give a shit what is between their legs, if a person deliberately lies, deceives, manipulates, someone they supposedly care for then they are an asshole no matter what is between their legs or what their background is. In fact the biggest asshole of all is the damn father (surprise he isn't a girl). Since he isn't an LI, there is less focus on his bullshit actions. Kaija get so much focus because she is one of the four LIs. Otherwise no one would talk about her.

The MC is also an asshole if he screws the girl at the pub, if you get on that path. Since us men are such horrible hypocrites, I'm sure you can find some girls to hang out with and drivel about how bad men are and where have all the good men gone. . However, I'd like to see you drop this gender bias crap and go back to your more interesting commentary.

Well, it seems like it's impossible to blame Kajia for her lies, without being a hypocritical misogynist.
Even if you would be on her side, if the roles were reversed (something which is apparently impossible for us) ...i mean, kudos to that one's level of mental gymnastic

 

[Ceolag]

Have proof of that do you?

Now he does:
She didn't cheat in any possible way.
No need to go into story reasons for that, I can just point at the NTR topic.
Having her cheat because of orders/money/bamboo sticks is borderline NTR and I'm NOT going to open that can of worms.
Otherwise, we'll have 180 pages more by Sunday.

 

[Dessolos]

Otherwise, we'll have 180 pages more by Sunday.

Challenge accepted the only way I know how to do that is Down with Kaija!

 

[Leongen43]

Now he does:
She didn't cheat in any possible way.
No need to go into story reasons for that, I can just point at the NTR topic.
Having her cheat because of orders/money/bamboo sticks is borderline NTR and I'm NOT going to open that can of worms.
Otherwise, we'll have 180 pages more by Sunday.

I understand, but if it happened and Kaija was unfaithful, would this be the armor he would use to prevent the protagonist from being made fun of and give a justification for the cuckolding?

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[ThorinKing]

I understand, but if it happened and Kaija was unfaithful, would this be the armor he would use to prevent the protagonist from being made fun of and give a justification for the cuckolding?

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That is a fucking abomination.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

You are wrong about that. There are two sequential scenes she says, before I really realized it, we both were a thing then she adds over time I fell in love with you which means she started the relationship before she loved him.

Personally I think that when she talks about "initially nothing was true" she is referring to the reasons for spending more time together, given how many times she wants to specify that the feelings are true, the relationship should have arisen naturally by spending more time together.
For every other routh there is no possibility of redemption.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Personally I think that when she talks about "initially nothing was true" she is referring to the reasons for spending more time together, given how many times she wants to specify that the feelings are true, the relationship should have arisen naturally by spending more time together.
For every other routh there is no possibility of redemption.

She does not say nothing was true though she says nothing but the friendship. So there is no referring there, she outright tells us.

Tbh, in other routes she is more acceptable for me. No redemption in any route don't get me wrong but at non-love paths it was just a job for her, no feelings. She only betrays an old friendship, still a shitty thing to do but it is what it is. On so-called love she betrays everything for the sake of her cult.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

What makes me think of this is that in the other versions Kaija has an attitude of "yes you're right but let's move on at least you've had sex" (which is somewhat infuriating)

Tbh, in other routes she is more acceptable for me. No redemption in any route don't get me wrong but at non-love paths it was just a job for her, no feelings. She only betrays an old friendship, still a shitty thing to do but it is what it is. On so-called love she betrays everything for the sake of her cult.

I understand your point, only time and/or Ceolag will tell us the truth.

 

[Ceolag]

Hey everyone,

Another week passed and Easter was the busy and chaotic time I expected. It's good that it's behind us now. ;-)
Thanks to the 4-day weekend (Friday and Monday were days off here), I expected to get lower numbers done this week (days off usually mean days spent with the family).
Well... I'd say the numbers aren't exactly lower than usual.

I've almost finished my next internal test version and am just waiting for the pc to render the last several images.
Everything else is ready. So it's safe to say I did catch up with the renders according to my plan.
Next week will be mostly dedicated to setting up several environments that I need for the rest of Chapter 5.
Additionally, more writing and squeezing in renders where possible, of course.

Moving on to the numbers of this week:
120 new static renders for a total of 1156
0 new animations :-(
221 new lines in the script file for a total of 3116

Clearly lower numbers than usual on the render-side...

Have a nice weekend, guys.

Cheers,
Ceolag

 

[nitkonikic]

Few things to say about Kaija.
What was the end goal in her mind though?
What if MC wanted marriage/children?
What if she actually fell in love with someone?

The reason why I find her irredeemable on "friend" path is because I can't stop thinking of above.
Naturally, love and "friend" path make Kaija a completely different person, and love path would be (somewhat) possible to answer by simple: "They go for it and she comes clean".

"Friend" path just baffles me.
How did she think it would end? There is simply no long-term scenario where it doesn't come crashing and burning down worse than Hindenburg.
She leaves scorched earth behind, while hoping to have trust from the person whose life she destroyed?
If MC develops genuine feelings based on complete lie, what then?

For role-playing sake, think how utterly devastated MC in love with Kaija would be on 0 points chapter 1 run.
Just think about it for a minute. Here's a guy, in love with his childhood friend, she returned his feelings, he's happy...then it turns out all of that is a lie. She doesn't love him. She was with him only because it's her job.

Again, I am talking low-points, still love her option taken scenario.

Love path gives completely different story, and one where I can see why people would be willing to forgive and forget. She suffers and genuinely feels sorry for what she did.
Bench scene is day and night difference. Shower scene (one with achievement) shows how messed up she gets.
Even on this one, though, I have to ask similar questions. How did she think it will end up?
She entered relationship for all the wrong reasons. That sucks. Her actions after she developed feelings for MC change the narrative completely though, and redemption feels deserved.
Not that I'm going to pursue romance on any of the paths, but I am happily following high-points route to see her development there.

Kaija is such an amazing character, and just like an amazing movie/tv show villain, I love everything that happens around her.

 

[Leongen43]

Few things to say about Kaija.
What was the end goal in her mind though?
What if MC wanted marriage/children?
What if she actually fell in love with someone?

The reason why I find her irredeemable on "friend" path is because I can't stop thinking of above.
Naturally, love and "friend" path make Kaija a completely different person, and love path would be (somewhat) possible to answer by simple: "They go for it and she comes clean".

"Friend" path just baffles me.
How did she think it would end? There is simply no long-term scenario where it doesn't come crashing and burning down worse than Hindenburg.
She leaves scorched earth behind, while hoping to have trust from the person whose life she destroyed?
If MC develops genuine feelings based on complete lie, what then?

For role-playing sake, think how utterly devastated MC in love with Kaija would be on 0 points chapter 1 run.
Just think about it for a minute. Here's a guy, in love with his childhood friend, she returned his feelings, he's happy...then it turns out all of that is a lie. She doesn't love him. She was with him only because it's her job.

Again, I am talking low-points, still love her option taken scenario.

Love path gives completely different story, and one where I can see why people would be willing to forgive and forget. She suffers and genuinely feels sorry for what she did.
Bench scene is day and night difference. Shower scene (one with achievement) shows how messed up she gets.
Even on this one, though, I have to ask similar questions. How did she think it will end up?
She entered relationship for all the wrong reasons. That sucks. Her actions after she developed feelings for MC change the narrative completely though, and redemption feels deserved.
Not that I'm going to pursue romance on any of the paths, but I am happily following high-points route to see her development there.

Kaija is such an amazing character, and just like an amazing movie/tv show villain, I love everything that happens around her.

At first for Kaija the mc was just a mission but she has feelings for him but that doesn't mean that it's a mission for her and Kaija's feelings can grow or not depending on our decisions in the story, right? I would like to have several threesomes so I want to get along with all the girls

 

[lorkdubo]

At first for Kaija the mc was just a mission but she has feelings for him but that doesn't mean that it's a mission for her and Kaija's feelings can grow or not depending on our decisions in the story, right? I would like to have several threesomes so I want to get along with all the girls

Still, both paths feel disjointed, as at least it appears that they have been best friends since childhood and have practically spent time together since then. Also, you don't "love" someone before actually spending a good amount of time with them and knowing their in's and out's. I still feel that she should have been remorseful on both paths, as she has wronged her best friend and childhood friend regardless.
It's not that hard to think that she just took advantage of the assignment from the templars to enter a relationship with him, as her being a templar has been her focus since her grandfather died. Still, she lied and should have come clean regardless of MC, but maybe she was afraid of the sky coming down. Which, mind you, happened, and you can see she is devastated on the love path who should have been the cannon and only one, to be honest, as it ease the plot a lot~~~.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Few things to say about Kaija.
What was the end goal in her mind though?
What if MC wanted marriage/children?
What if she actually fell in love with someone?

The reason why I find her irredeemable on "friend" path is because I can't stop thinking of above.
Naturally, love and "friend" path make Kaija a completely different person, and love path would be (somewhat) possible to answer by simple: "They go for it and she comes clean".

"Friend" path just baffles me.
How did she think it would end? There is simply no long-term scenario where it doesn't come crashing and burning down worse than Hindenburg.
She leaves scorched earth behind, while hoping to have trust from the person whose life she destroyed?
If MC develops genuine feelings based on complete lie, what then?

For role-playing sake, think how utterly devastated MC in love with Kaija would be on 0 points chapter 1 run.
Just think about it for a minute. Here's a guy, in love with his childhood friend, she returned his feelings, he's happy...then it turns out all of that is a lie. She doesn't love him. She was with him only because it's her job.

Again, I am talking low-points, still love her option taken scenario.

Love path gives completely different story, and one where I can see why people would be willing to forgive and forget. She suffers and genuinely feels sorry for what she did.
Bench scene is day and night difference. Shower scene (one with achievement) shows how messed up she gets.
Even on this one, though, I have to ask similar questions. How did she think it will end up?
She entered relationship for all the wrong reasons. That sucks. Her actions after she developed feelings for MC change the narrative completely though, and redemption feels deserved.
Not that I'm going to pursue romance on any of the paths, but I am happily following high-points route to see her development there.

Kaija is such an amazing character, and just like an amazing movie/tv show villain, I love everything that happens around her.

That's the thing though, on friend path she does not give a flying fuck about MC. She is okay to cheat, deceive, manipulate etc. if everything blew up like it happened in the game, though luck at worst case mission failed for her. MC's love for her does not mean jackshit for her.
For love path, she does all the things she did at the friend path but there is a difference here, she is doing all of it to a person whom she claims she loves. She lies in all the paths but she does that to a person she says she is in love with.

For me, all of her paths are irredeemable but in her love path she does things to a person that she have feelings. This makes me furious with her, you won't do such a thing to a person you love. In friend path, she has who gives a fuck attitude which is shitty but expectable.

 

[Dark Silence]

I understand, but if it happened and Kaija was unfaithful, would this be the armor he would use to prevent the protagonist from being made fun of and give a justification for the cuckolding?

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That is a fucking abomination.

That armor looks more like it's for some gay BDSM scene. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Leongen43]

That armor looks more like it's for some gay BDSM scene. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Seriously? Wait! Can I remind you of something you used in the past?

 

[Dark Silence]

Seriously? Wait! Can I remind you of something you used in the past?

Sometimes the teacher needs the student to remind them.

 

[xapican]

That armor looks more like it's for some gay BDSM scene. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No wonder it is from the “Teutonic Knights “