VN Ren'Py Knockout Master [Round 12] [MooN]

[Abhishek_tanwar]

Written with all the bravado and complete lack of empathy from someone who's never been in a life threatening situation before. Being scared and cracking under pressure in extreme circumstances is not a moral failure. Life sucks, shit happens, and bad things happen to good people. We're not all 80's action movie super heroes.




In what universe? Her lack of papers didn't stop her from applying to get them replaced, did it? So clearly there is someway to prove identification beyond just having a state issued identification card on you. Do you want to know who's probably best equipped to do so on the fly? The police. Also, the very next day, the MC brags about being wealthy (rich people own jets, wealthy people own airport), so how could this hurt him at all? What unfounded circumstances could he not simply buy himself out of? Also, it is very damming that the monied playboy who need not work a day in his life holds his fight license in higher regard than doing the right thing to stop a rapist from victimizing someone else.

Hell, if reality is any indication, the MC could have been the rapist and just bought his way to freedom with a good enough lawyer. According to the game itself, the MC has 'Fuck You' money. He is the 1%. Consequences don't apply in the same way to people in that financial bracket. Not that he did anything to even warrant more than a side-eye glance from the police. He's a rich white dude who beat up a criminal while defending a lady's honor. They'd probably hold a parade in his freakin' honor.




I second that; I too have serious doubts about your mind set if 'blame the mugging on the muggers' is a difficult concept for you to grasp. Pretty sure Captain Picard would agree with me too.




Again, in what universe do you live in where someone survives an attempted rape so violent it literally tore her clothing to shreds, is then perfectly okay honky-dory with showing off her body intimately and performing a sex act on a stranger not even 24 hours later? I'm not saying that's impossible, just stupidly improbable. Unless Alice is subject to some extreme situational context (like that she grew up as a child prostitute and has spent years being sexually abused to the point of being numb about it), then it absolutely shatters my suspension of disbelief for her to act like that. I don't think a regular human being who just went through that sex related trauma would be so blasé about performing sex acts so quickly.




Okay, so now you are making the very same mistake the author did. You are treating the decisions that happened in the moment, with knowledge from much later in the story; knowledge that the audience and the characters involved DID NOT KNOW AT THE TIME. Hell, I didn't know either. I'm replaying the game, I hadn't gotten far enough to learn the boyfriend was a sociopath that staged the mugging. That's why I'm reacting this way, because I didn't have that knowledge. But you do, the author did, and unfortunately (and this is the point here) so do Alice and the MC, even though at that point in the story they cannot possibly know that.

I'm not trying to excuse the sociopath, so maybe work on your reading comprehension. My point is to critique the writing as I was encountering it. So the fact that the actions of Alice and the MC only make sense long after they've made them in the light of later knowledge, is in fact a point in my favor. Thanks for proving me right.




Whatever you say chief. I think you have some weird personal issues with inadequacy and masculinity you need to sort out. Good luck with that...

You are waste of time mate.

Ask any female friends of your, what they will think of you as human being if choose to run in that situation.

If you think i am wrong ask any female family members. Further more it's about moral and you are bankrupt in that regard.

I will not have any conversation with you.
It's just lost cause.

 

[yihman1]

yihman1
Developer,
This problem only for me ??
(Using Android apk with w.t mod)

I never used the android version, and Moon can't help you with a modded version either. I'd suggest an unmodded version, or asking the modder for technical support.

 

[JokerLeader]

yihman1
Developer,
This problem only for me ??
(Using Android apk with w.t mod)

I never used the android version, and Moon can't help you with a modded version either. I'd suggest an unmodded version, or asking the modder for technical support.

There's isn't an android modded port at least I didn't find one and my WT Mod so far is for PC/MAC

Also, I'm not that knowledgeable of Android ports or mods, so I cant help either.

 

[Allan Trumbull]

There's isn't an android modded port at least I didn't find one and my WT Mod so far is for PC/MAC

Also, I'm not that knowledgeable of Android ports or mods, so I cant help either.

JokerLeader
Port made by DarkAssassin

 

[JokerLeader]

JokerLeader
Port made by DarkAssassin

Can you send the post link, thanks.

 

[yihman1]

I think the core of the problem here is that the author assumes the answer to that is yes, and that the 'abandonment' both happened and was obvious to the audience. The author expects us to take Alice's word as inerrant, perfect exposition. That makes sense if you're using her and her trauma as a plot point, an event on a checklist, there only to move the plot forward to your predetermined conclusion.

Again, in the real world, events like these are traumatic, and people have a tendency to misremember and misperceive these events. So there is plenty of reason to doubt her account, especially when she tries to assign motive to someone else's behavior (not for nothing, but motive is one of the hardest things to prove in a court case). Also the term 'abandonment' is a really loaded term, and it also assumes that the motive Alice prescribed to her boyfriend is factually accurate. As a random stranger that doesn't know her or her boyfriend, do I have any reason to take her word on his motive at face value? Hell no.

Now the author could have side-stepped this. The author could have used their authorial intent, made use of a third person perspective, and actually shown the audience what happened. But the author didn't do that. The audience arrives in medias res and only has Alice's take on what happened before we got there. So the problem here is that the author just assumes that the audience will take her words at face value (and apparently a lot of the more credulous fans on this forum did), but I'm not sold on it, because I'm brutally aware of just how unreliable our sense and memories are at the best of times, let alone under such duress.

So now, having established that there is ample reason to not just take everything Alice says at face value, you have a situation where the MC has demonstrated that they have the capability to intervene and help. While I can't take Alice's word on motive, the presence of her boyfriend and another mugger is a much lower bar to clear, credulity wise. If we believe that, and have a reasonable expectation that we could help if we tried, we now have the moral imperative to do so. To have the power to help, and chose to do nothing, makes Alice and the MC more culpable and morally inferior to the boyfriend (assuming he simply panicked and ran off without any malicious intent). People get scared, people make mistakes (especially when they are scared). But the MC isn't scared, and has shown that they can help. That the MC doesn't even try is a huge moral failing. One that is rather poorly plastered over by the author later using Alice to give a laundry reasons as to why her relationship was failing. But even then, those reasons aren't anywhere close to a valid enough reason to help those in need; even scummy assholes don't deserve to be mugged and assaulted.

I mean, this is kinda point for point the whole Uncle Ben death for Peter Parker (Spider-Man), and the origin of the 'with great power comes great responsibility' line. If the MC turns his back on the boyfriend and doesn't help when he could have, that is the MC's failure.

Well, MC may very be one of those people who go on twitter and type in the hashtag #believewomen

Many people would take a victims word as true. MC is not the police, nor a lawyer, or a judge in a courtroom. Just a man, who met a woman down on her luck.

Do some people lie about crimes? Oh, yes of course they do, and those people deserve to be punished by the law. However, doubting the victim of a crime for no good reason s a very easy way to get them to not open to you. Just assume that all Alice says is true on the matter, and she is not a liar. She has not been written as a liar and has not been caught in any lies or anything like that. Just take her word for it she is being honest.

Again, I see your point and liars do exist, but she isn't one of them.

So they've placed their own comfort over other's safety and the public good. I don't want to deal with the police, so I won't do anything to apprehend this attempted rapist? I mean, sure, you can do that; but that makes you an asshole. Again, there is about a dozen different ways to handle this. But I get the sense that this attempted rape is little more than a necessary plot point on a checklist, and not a well thought out, impactful event for the life of Alice; given just how little impact it has on the rest of the narrative, and even less impact on her.

It's not just their own comfort. Our main character is a very wealthy man. Perhaps he doesn't want to report things in fear of a lawsuit for being a hero? Wouldn't that be something... I have heard stories of burglars who break into a house then sue the homeowner. Getting the law involved is not always a good idea. Suppose the attempted rapist broke his ribs, and now MC must go to prison for assault... Then no boxing license, and he gotta hire a lawyer, and ALice is homeless now... All because he stopped a rape? It' was a risk he wasn't wanting to take at the time unless perhaps Alice pressed for it.

Why didn't Alice press for it? Well... She was tired... she was hungry and homeless... She just met a handsome man that rescued her.... Perhpas she would rather spend the rest of her evening with this nice young man, than being interrogated and called a liar down at the police station by some rookie cop that beats his wife and thinks she is a whore?

They just wanted to get past it, and be done with it. Maybe they figured the ass whooping the attempted rapist got was good enough punishment for the crime?

Sure, but again, that is a failing of Alice and the MC. There are plenty of other ways to square this narrative circle that don't have Alice and the MC being so selfish and callous before being expected to take their side against her former boyfriend. Sure, Alice and the MC can just do nothing; but then they have zero moral high-ground to stand on themselves. Which again the author can do, it just makes Alice and the MC assholes. Unfortunately, I don't think the author intended to make them assholes.

Yea, there are plenty of ways to tell a story. No, Alice and the MC are not meant to be assholes. I think you are over thinking it a bit perhaps?

Okay, but the problem is when the MC (who represents the audience) ALSO acts in accordance with this hidden foreknowledge. It is one thing for Alice to be upset with her boyfriend over past issues, it is another thing entirely for the MC to also treat the boyfriend like a pariah when he has no personal experience with the person. Either the MC is a credulous dipshit who believes anything he's told at face value, or the author is being lazy and have the MC act with knowledge he shouldn't have. I'm assuming its the later, because that is a super common narrative mistake.

No, he goes along with the story Alice tells him. He believes Alice. He has no good reason to be doubting her. He kinda likes this girl, they go on to have lots and lots of sex as he plays his cards right.

When all this is going down, Alice doesn't know that. The MC doesn't know that; and by extension the audience doesn't know that. They still left him to fend for himself when they thought that he could still be in danger. You don't get bonus points for your actions because they were vindicated by a conspiracy revealed to the audience after the fact. In the moment, given only what the audience could know at the time, Alice and the MC were simply in the wrong.

The problem here is a failure of the author. They have the characters acting in moral accordance with knowledge the author has, but that they simply do not have at that point in the story. The author knows the boyfriend is a sociopath, but Alice, the MC, and the audience do not at that moment.

Even so it was cowardly of him. Maybe we should do a minor rewrite to it so that he trips Alice before he runs off hoping the attackers would go for her and not him?

which again, isn't information the audience is privy to at the time.

Not all information is meant to be fully available to the audience at all times.

Let's be real, she's giving him a blowjob not because it makes sense for her character and the trauma she's just (apparently not) suffered, she's giving head because this is an erotica game and we need X amount of lewds every update.

That's an interesting point you bring up. I'm just gonna toss google search out for you.

You must be registered to see the links

You will see that there are a great many articles, and stories about some women becoming promiscuous after a rape, or in this case an attempted rape. It is a very common response in women after they have been violated in such a way. Again, obligatory "not all", but it's definitely not uncommon. It's actually very common if google search results mean anything.

But again, a little different here. I was almost the victim of a shooting. Indeed I was 15 feet away from two people who were in a fistfight when one of them pulled a gun and shot the other, and I was almost hit. I ran, hid in a bathroom (I was front desk at a hotel at the time), and called 911 to get the State Troopers there. Then when they arrived, heavily armed themselves since this was an 'active shooter' situation, I met them outside; when the person with the gun was spotted and apprehended. I spent the rest of the night (this was night shift) coming down from that adrenaline high.

Now if you had invited me the next day to go to a gun-range and do live fire exercises with man shaped targets, I'd have told you in no uncertain terms to go fuck yourself. Sure, different people will react to different trauma in different ways. But having a sexual assault victim give a blowjob as a reward not 24 hours after their victimization is, if nothing else, extremely gauche. But again, that's a byproduct of the mugging and attempted rape being little more than plot-point on a check list, and not thinking things through. The author isn't treating Alice like she is a well fleshed out character with a lived experience, she's just sexy eye candy that events happen to in order to forward the plot.

That sucks, good to hear are alright. Yea, the thing is different folks have different responses to things. It may not be how you would have responded in her shoes, but it is an understandable response.

If someone gives you a guns, tells you it is loaded, then askes you to kill someone with it and you pull the trigger; you don't get bonus good-boy points just because later you learn the gun wasn't loaded.



Still, I do appreciate the time you spent to respond to my critique, and I had fun elaborating further.

Right, that brings up the whole concept of "

You must be registered to see the links

" which is a very interesting phenomenon.

Suppose two neighbors who are both twin brothers celebrate their 30th birthday together down at the bar. Let's call them Billy and Bobby.

They get shit-faced drunk on their birthday. Celebrating 30 years as brothers and best friends! Bobby says to Billy, "I
'm heading home.", and Billy says back to him, "Yea me too, but I'm gonna go take a piss first." So Billy leaves 5 minutes after Bobby...

Billy gets pulled over on the way home... The poor fella gets a DUI on his birthday. He shoulda known better, but these things happen, and people aren't going to be calling for his head. He will spend the night in the drunk tank, and get a fine, but be home the following day.

Bobby on the other hand... Poor guy, ran a pregnant woman off the road, who was taking her poor sick daughter to the hospital to get some medicine for her tummy ache... The mother and daughter both die, along with the unborn little one... The police show up... Bobby isn't gonna going home tomorrow... He is gonna be doing a nice long stretch in prison for his reckless behavior. As a society we will spit on him, and shake our heads in disgust. Unforgivable!



Yea no problem I don't mind responding to players.

 

[Allan Trumbull]

Well, MC may very be one of those people who go on twitter and type in the hashtag #believewomen

Many people would take a victims word as true. MC is not the police, nor a lawyer, or a judge in a courtroom. Just a man, who met a woman down on her luck.

Do some people lie about crimes? Oh, yes of course they do, and those people deserve to be punished by the law. However, doubting the victim of a crime for no good reason s a very easy way to get them to not open to you. Just assume that all Alice says is true on the matter, and she is not a liar. She has not been written as a liar and has not been caught in any lies or anything like that. Just take her word for it she is being honest.

Again, I see your point and liars do exist, but she isn't one of them.




It's not just their own comfort. Our main character is a very wealthy man. Perhaps he doesn't want to report things in fear of a lawsuit for being a hero? Wouldn't that be something... I have heard stories of burglars who break into a house then sue the homeowner. Getting the law involved is not always a good idea. Suppose the attempted rapist broke his ribs, and now MC must go to prison for assault... Then no boxing license, and he gotta hire a lawyer, and ALice is homeless now... All because he stopped a rape? It' was a risk he wasn't wanting to take at the time unless perhaps Alice pressed for it.

Why didn't Alice press for it? Well... She was tired... she was hungry and homeless... She just met a handsome man that rescued her.... Perhpas she would rather spend the rest of her evening with this nice young man, than being interrogated and called a liar down at the police station by some rookie cop that beats his wife and thinks she is a whore?

They just wanted to get past it, and be done with it. Maybe they figured the ass whooping the attempted rapist got was good enough punishment for the crime?




Yea, there are plenty of ways to tell a story. No, Alice and the MC are not meant to be assholes. I think you are over thinking it a bit perhaps?



No, he goes along with the story Alice tells him. He believes Alice. He has no good reason to be doubting her. He kinda likes this girl, they go on to have lots and lots of sex as he plays his cards right.



Even so it was cowardly of him. Maybe we should do a minor rewrite to it so that he trips Alice before he runs off hoping the attackers would go for her and not him?



Not all information is meant to be fully available to the audience at all times.



That's an interesting point you bring up. I'm just gonna toss google search out for you.

You must be registered to see the links

You will see that there are a great many articles, and stories about some women becoming promiscuous after a rape, or in this case an attempted rape. It is a very common response in women after they have been violated in such a way. Again, obligatory "not all", but it's definitely not uncommon. It's actually very common if google search results mean anything.



That sucks, good to hear are alright. Yea, the thing is different folks have different responses to things. It may not be how you would have responded in her shoes, but it is an understandable response.



Right, that brings up the whole concept of "Moral Luck" which is a very interesting phenomenon.

Suppose two neighbors who are both twin brothers celebrate their 30th birthday together down at the bar. Let's call them Billy and Bobby.

They get shit-faced drunk on their birthday. Celebrating 30 years as brothers and best friends! Bobby says to Billy, "I
'm heading home.", and Billy says back to him, "Yea me too, but I'm gonna go take a piss first." So Billy leaves 5 minutes after Bobby...

Billy gets pulled over on the way home... The poor fella gets a DUI on his birthday. He shoulda known better, but these things happen, and people aren't going to be calling for his head. He will spend the night in the drunk tank, and get a fine, but be home the following day.

Bobby on the other hand... Poor guy, ran a pregnant woman off the road, who was taking her poor sick daughter to the hospital to get some medicine for her tummy ache... The mother and daughter both die, along with the unborn little one... The police show up... Bobby isn't gonna going home tomorrow... He is gonna be doing a nice long stretch in prison for his reckless behavior. As a society we will spit on him, and shake our heads in disgust. Unforgivable!



Yea no problem I don't mind responding to players.

Curious About MC's head. Can Understand Why he is hiding his concussion. But Why he is not Ready to Check up his Head ?? CT / MRI Scan Would have been a help

 

[AlxTR]

Game have problem from raund7 , giveme "aut of range" mistake.
When I look in Atom in Code base ı dont see any mistake

IndexError: string index out of range

Mistake Start for this dialoge

sfx/dream.mp3
sfx/crwd.mp3
Oh look, here they come. Time to get this show started!
It's about damn time. I'm ready to win some money!
sfx/tyrant.mp3
Oh yeah? Who do you have your money on?
I've got my bet on Margarito winning this fight.
Margarito?! ... I don't know much about this new guy, [name], but I think you just lost your bet.
No way! What are you talking about? Clearly you don't know jack shit about the sport. This no-name new guy is gonna get his ass handed to him.
We'll see. Maybe you should have made the bet with me. I sure could use the money. Heh.
Yeah, whatever. I'm gonna win me some money off this fight and then you'll be sorry you didn't take the opportunity such as I did.
Both fighters move to their respective corners.
Keep your guard up, We can't afford to lose this!
Yes, sir!
Go get that win!

 

[zainon]

im just happy with alice good news! i hope mc stop sleeping with other woman or at least give us a choice next update, since i read somewhere that this game will have a multiple ending.

 

[kingcobra68]

really like this game so far love all the characters will herm be in game later ? Alice is first pregnant im guessing others will get pregnant as well? Anyway i also enjoyed the story keep it up

 

[yihman1]

Curious About MC's head. Can Understand Why he is hiding his concussion. But Why he is not Ready to Check up his Head ?? CT / MRI Scan Would have been a help

A lot of times men won't talk about their illness or injury. It's a pride thing. A lot of men prefer to "Suffer in silence." It's an old-fashioned way of thinking, but they think it comes off as weakness, and don't want to be that weak guy. They don't want that sort of attention.

In recent news, a guy like Norm MacDonald one of my favorite comedians is an excellent example of this. The man was battling cancer for the last decade of his life, and nobody knew a thing about that until he was dead. RIP Norm.

 

[yihman1]

im just happy with alice good news! i hope mc stop sleeping with other woman or at least give us a choice next update, since i read somewhere that this game will have a multiple ending.

I think we will eventually have an option to Marry Alice, and be a faithful husband to her in the end.

really like this game so far love all the characters will herm be in game later ? Alice is first pregnant im guessing others will get pregnant as well? Anyway i also enjoyed the story keep it up

A harem is one of the endings that is in mind. I was thinking that maybe our MC's head injury could perhaps come back and give him some sort of near death experience where he thinks he is speaking with God. Perhaps he will start his own little religion as a founder and prophet calling it the "More women" religion. (A spoof on Mormon that sounds like "More Men".)

 

[EvolutionKills]

Well, MC may very be one of those people who go on twitter and type in the hashtag #believewomen

Many people would take a victims word as true. MC is not the police, nor a lawyer, or a judge in a courtroom. Just a man, who met a woman down on her luck.

Do some people lie about crimes? Oh, yes of course they do, and those people deserve to be punished by the law. However, doubting the victim of a crime for no good reason s a very easy way to get them to not open to you. Just assume that all Alice says is true on the matter, and she is not a liar. She has not been written as a liar and has not been caught in any lies or anything like that. Just take her word for it she is being honest.

Again, I see your point and liars do exist, but she isn't one of them.

I never said she was a knowing liar. My point is that people's perceptions can be wrong, and their memories flawed, even at the best of times. So it's a good idea to be skeptical. So when Alice says her boyfriend was there, and he ran away, because he was a coward; these are all different truth claims. The existence of the boyfriend has a really low bar, that is easy enough to believe. But the claims on his motive? That's different. Because unless the boyfriend yelled out his innermost thoughts and told her his motivation while he did so, she really can't know that for certain.

Also, even if the boyfriend ran away from cowardice as she claimed, cowardice is not malicious. If all the MC knew is that the boyfriend was afraid and ran out of fear, that's not a good reason to abandon them if they need help.

Also, in regards to Alice's claims of motive; the game later proves she was incorrect. As it turns out her boyfriend wasn't a coward, he was malicious; he staged the whole thing. So the game proves me right, we should have doubted Alice's claims to know the motive behind her boyfriend's actions.

It's not just their own comfort. Our main character is a very wealthy man. Perhaps he doesn't want to report things in fear of a lawsuit for being a hero? Wouldn't that be something... I have heard stories of burglars who break into a house then sue the homeowner. Getting the law involved is not always a good idea. Suppose the attempted rapist broke his ribs, and now MC must go to prison for assault... Then no boxing license, and he gotta hire a lawyer, and ALice is homeless now... All because he stopped a rape? It' was a risk he wasn't wanting to take at the time unless perhaps Alice pressed for it.

Why didn't Alice press for it? Well... She was tired... she was hungry and homeless... She just met a handsome man that rescued her.... Perhpas she would rather spend the rest of her evening with this nice young man, than being interrogated and called a liar down at the police station by some rookie cop that beats his wife and thinks she is a whore?

They just wanted to get past it, and be done with it. Maybe they figured the ass whooping the attempted rapist got was good enough punishment for the crime?

I don't buy it. Self defense statues are very broad. How broad? You can take a gun, go across state lines, antagonize peaceful protesters, get scared, shoot them, and still claims 'self defense'. So this isn't anything close to being outside of a 'reasonable' or legitimate self defense claim. In fact had the MC shot the rapist, this is almost the epitome of 'good guy with a gun' vigilantism that gets lionized. It is Alice and the MC's word versus the rapist. Again, he'd be far more likely to get a parade than jail time.

Also, if the MC is 'wealthy', and 'wealthy people own airports', I'm sure he could afford any and all medical bills associated with the rapist's beatdown. So even if he had to pay them, sacrificing that money would be a drop in the bucket, and still worth it if it got a rapists off the street before they victimized another. Again, failure of the author here. They wanted to make the MC stupid rich so that money was no concern; that also means that being sued for money is no financial threat. The MC has 'Fuck You' money, he can afford a good lawyer, he won't be destitute and homeless for fighting a rapist to defend a victim. The MC has all the cards stacked in their favor, so if despite all that he acts as he did, then he's some combination of stupid, selfish, or greedy.

I'm not the one who wrote the character this way, I'm just observing and judging his actions. He was brave to step in and save Alice, he was callous to not even try to do the same for the boyfriend. To leave the rapist there and not involve police, and allow for future victimization, is negligent in the extreme. To be more concerned with the potential (and very nebulous) consequences to his license is supremely selfish. To think that any of this would have negative consequences, in spite of his vast wealth, makes him very stupid.

Yea, there are plenty of ways to tell a story. No, Alice and the MC are not meant to be assholes. I think you are over thinking it a bit perhaps?

Only if you think not helping those in obvious need are assholes. If the MC kept on walking and didn't help Alice, would that make him an asshole? If yes, then how is him not helping the boyfriend different?

Spoiler: The difference is the author knows the boyfriend is a sociopath who staged the whole thing, and has the MC act in accordance with that knowledge. If the KC knew that going into the event, he'd be justified in not helping the boyfriend, and wouldn't be judged an asshole for not helping.

Remember that neither Alice or the MC know at the time that the event was staged. To the best of their current knowledge, in the moment, the boyfriend is in danger and needs help. Help they could have given, but didn't. There are plenty of words I could use to describe that level of callous disregard and inaction, 'asshole' just happened to be the one I chose. But whatever word you pick, it doesn't change the the fact of their actions. They knowingly abandoned the boyfriend to his fate when they thought he needed help. People we think of as 'heroic' wouldn't have done that.

Spider-Man or Super-Man wouldn't have done that. Hell even 'wealthy' playboy billionaire Bat-Man, Mr. 'I beat up criminals to cope for the death of my parents' himself, almost certainly wouldn't have done that.

No, he goes along with the story Alice tells him. He believes Alice. He has no good reason to be doubting her. He kinda likes this girl, they go on to have lots and lots of sex as he plays his cards right.

Except we have every reason to doubt her, and the game proves it, when it pulls the rug out from under her claims and shows that the whole event was staged anyways.

Even so it was cowardly of him. Maybe we should do a minor rewrite to it so that he trips Alice before he runs off hoping the attackers would go for her and not him?

Missing the point. The 'cowardice' of the boyfriend was a ploy, in reality he was malicious. But that's besides the point. In the moment, Alice thinks he's a coward. In the moment, the MC only knows what Alice can tell him. Even with the limited knowledge that Alice has, the MC should try to find and help the boyfriend.

Unless you rewrite the entire event, and incorporate a third-person perspective so that the audience can see the events themselves, there is no getting around the 'hearsay' problem if the MC arrives on the scene after the fact. So you'd need to redo the scene in such a way that the boyfriend was obviously malicious, which undermines the later reveal of his sociopathy. Conversely you can rewrite it so that the MC actually tries to do the right thing. Have them call the cops, have him go and try to find the boyfriend. Even if he fails, then at least he tried. But as of now, the MC didn't even try to help or call the police.

Not all information is meant to be fully available to the audience at all times.

Right. That's kinda the point. The fans are here giving me shit and facepalming my posts because they all know the boyfriend is a sociopath, and are judging his actions based on knowing that he staged the event. I didn't know that. At the time, neither would Alice and the MC. That they both act like assholes, in a way that could only be justified if they KNEW the boyfriend was a sociopath who staged the whole thing, is a failure of the author and the narrative. They're acting with complete moral authority, because the author 'knows' their actions are justified given the reality of the situation; the problem is that in the moment, neither the characters nor the audience has that 'knowledge'. So they're acting in accordance with things they don't know at the time. In the moment, that makes them huge assholes. The later revelation of this knowledge that back-fills and justifies their actions after-the-fact is just lazy writing.

That's an interesting point you bring up. I'm just gonna toss google search out for you.

You must be registered to see the links

You will see that there are a great many articles, and stories about some women becoming promiscuous after a rape, or in this case an attempted rape. It is a very common response in women after they have been violated in such a way. Again, obligatory "not all", but it's definitely not uncommon. It's actually very common if google search results mean anything.

C'mon, you can do better than that. Did you try reading anything more than just looking at the Google search results?

I can't read the paper itself, but at least read the abstract from this study.

You must be registered to see the links

The present study examines changes in women's sexual activity and behavior following sexual assault and the relationship between alcohol abuse and postassault promiscuity. Although many researchers have focused on avoidance of sexual activity following an assault, some have suggested that women may exhibit an increase in sexual activity postassault. Such outcomes are not mutually exclusive possibilities but may instead reflect subtypes of sexual assault victims. A significant percentage of assault survivors did report increases in sexual activity following trauma. Assault survivors also reported increases in posttraumatic alcohol consumption relative to a comparison sample of motor vehicle accident survivors. In both groups, increases in posttraumatic alcohol usage predicted increases in posttraumatic sexual activity, suggesting that use of alcohol as a coping strategy may result in an increased likelihood of engaging in risky sexual behavior. If true, this maladaptive coping mechanism could help to account for some instances of revictimization.

How much is a 'significant percentage'? No idea, can't access the paper. So sure, it is a thing, largely coupled with increased drinking and other coping mechanisms. But again her blowjob wasn't happening because it made more or less sense for her character, it happened because the author wanted his audience to get some lewds for that update and there is a quota that needs filling. That's kinda of a larger problem with the episodic content delivery structure of the vast majority of these crowdfunded erotica games. You are expected to do a certain amount of new lewd content each update, regardless of whether or not that makes sense for the characters or story.

That sucks, good to hear are alright. Yea, the thing is different folks have different responses to things. It may not be how you would have responded in her shoes, but it is an understandable response.

Again, I still think it's super gauche and lazy. Even if you wanted to take the 'more promiscuous as a form of coping' angle, the fact of the mater is that there isn't any 'coping' going on. She isn't drinking, the narrative doesn't give any inkling to her inside thoughts, there is no portrayal for the audience that she is perhaps struggling with the events and is maybe not completely sure or 100% comfortable with giving the blowjob but perhaps feels obligated to? That would at least be something, some acknowledgement that the events that happened had consequences, and weren't just a plot point.

Here is this big bad traumatic event, with no lasting consequences. Which undermines the event itself. Why should Alice be so upset with her boyfriend if she was so trauma-free as to give the MC a blowjob less than 24 hours after the fact? If she is so untroubled by the events that she can perform sexual acts with a near total stranger, then at the very least she should be able to let her boyfriend get a word in edgewise to explain himself. You can't have it both ways. She can't both be so traumatized as to act that way against her boyfriend, and simultaneously so trauma free to act that way towards the MC.

But no, the rape was just a plot point. She needs to yell at her boyfriend because the plot needs her to, because he is a sociopath (she doesn't know that). The plot also needs her to give the MC a blowjob because we need to hit our lewds quota for this update. So far, Alice is less a character, and more a plot device. Her actions don't read as organic, she just does what's required to move the plot forward. That is a consequence of weak writing and lack of strong characterization.

Right, that brings up the whole concept of "

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" which is a very interesting phenomenon.


Suppose two neighbors who are both twin brothers celebrate their 30th birthday together down at the bar. Let's call them Billy and Bobby.

They get shit-faced drunk on their birthday. Celebrating 30 years as brothers and best friends! Bobby says to Billy, "I
'm heading home.", and Billy says back to him, "Yea me too, but I'm gonna go take a piss first." So Billy leaves 5 minutes after Bobby...

Billy gets pulled over on the way home... The poor fella gets a DUI on his birthday. He shoulda known better, but these things happen, and people aren't going to be calling for his head. He will spend the night in the drunk tank, and get a fine, but be home the following day.

Bobby on the other hand... Poor guy, ran a pregnant woman off the road, who was taking her poor sick daughter to the hospital to get some medicine for her tummy ache... The mother and daughter both die, along with the unborn little one... The police show up... Bobby isn't gonna going home tomorrow... He is gonna be doing a nice long stretch in prison for his reckless behavior. As a society we will spit on him, and shake our heads in disgust. Unforgivable!

Right off the bat, love his work, and that was a great PBS short. I probably gonna be watching a lot more of these.

But I think you're missing the point, because that whole video on Moral Luck basically agrees with me.

Right off the bat it covers 'ought implies can'. Right. In the moment, the MC could intervene to help Alice, so he ought to. Likewise the MC, having demonstrated that they are more than capable of intervening and doing good (successfully rescuing Alice), learns of someone else in trouble (the boyfriend). He can help them, so he ought to. But he doesn't even try, and thus I judge him for his moral failure. That the author didn't is not my problem.



The MC saved Alice, then just because Alice calls her boyfriend a coward, the MC does nothing to even attempt to help the boyfriend. He didn't attempt to help the boyfriend and fail, he simply didn't even try. At best the makes the MC terribly inconsistent, his hero switch able to be turn off with but a single phrase from a sexy redhead with doe-eyes. The MC had his disposition to help undermined by someone else telling him that the person who needed help was a coward.

How does that not make the MC an asshole? I'd put someone who 'only saves potential fuck-buddies and lets everyone else rot' into the asshole category.

So to get back to your example, that's two people with the same disposition and actions, but one gets judged harsher than the other because bad luck caused their equally bad decisions to have worse consequences.

That's not what's happening with the MC. That's not what happened in my example with the loaded gun.

In my loaded gun example, the person has the disposition and intention to use the gun and does so. Even according to the video, it's the underlying disposition, not the consequences, that really deserve praise or derision. Not killing someone because the gun wasn't loaded does not change that fact that the person was willing to pull the trigger with the intent to kill. I can kinda see the connection in that the gun being unloaded resulted in nobody dying, which would be judged less harshly than an actual death. Which makes sense, murder is worse than attempted murder; but both are a moral indictment of the person willing pulling the trigger. The person's disposition was okay with them becoming a murder, even if by luck they didn't.

My point with the MC is that they're pulling the trigger, and only later do we learn the gun wasn't loaded; but that doesn't negate that he still pulled the trigger. He's still morally culpable for his disposition and his actions, even if the consequences turned out to be less so. In the moment, he made the choice to abandon the boyfriend, the very same thing Alice accused her boyfriend of doing. So at face value, the MC is no better than the boyfriend at the time. I'd argue that he's actually worse, since the MC demonstrated that he's actually capable and not a coward. He's clearly more capable to help than the boyfriend was, and yet he took the same action; he abandoned someone who needed help. In that light, the MC (in the moment) is worse than the boyfriend, according to the knowledge the audience has at the moment. The MC could have helped, and he ought to have helped; but chose not to. 'With great power comes great responsibility', and in that moment, the MC turned his back on his responsibility. That later we learn the whole thing was staged by a sociopath doesn't change the moral calculus that was made in the moment.

The MC doesn't get bonus good-boy points for abandoning the boyfriend, just because the gun wasn't loaded.


I'll leave you with this. If the mugging and rape had not been staged by the boyfriend, and he was in-fact just an innocent run of the mill coward, would Alice and the MC's actions be justified? Would they be assholes in that situation? Why or why not?

Yea no problem I don't mind responding to players.

 

[yihman1]

I never said she was a knowing liar. My point is that people's perceptions can be wrong, and their memories flawed, even at the best of times. So it's a good idea to be skeptical. So when Alice says her boyfriend was there, and he ran away, because he was a coward; these are all different truth claims. The existence of the boyfriend has a really low bar, that is easy enough to believe. But the claims on his motive? That's different. Because unless the boyfriend yelled out his innermost thoughts and told her his motivation while he did so, she really can't know that for certain.

Also, even if the boyfriend ran away from cowardice as she claimed, cowardice is not malicious. If all the MC knew is that the boyfriend was afraid and ran out of fear, that's not a good reason to abandon them if they need help.

Also, in regards to Alice's claims of motive; the game later proves she was incorrect. As it turns out her boyfriend wasn't a coward, he was malicious; he staged the whole thing. So the game proves me right, we should have doubted Alice's claims to know the motive behind her boyfriend's actions.

Suppose the other mugger/rapist had a gun or a knife? Suppose there was a 3rd or 4th assailant unknown to the protagonist? Would it behoove him to take the girl he just rescued and put in her in danger again just to seek out and attempt to rescue her other love interest that has already proven himself to be a coward? It would be a very bad decision to seek out her boyfriend at this point for many reasons.

I don't buy it. Self defense statues are very broad. How broad? You can take a gun, go across state lines, antagonize peaceful protesters, get scared, shoot them, and still claims 'self defense'. So this isn't anything close to being outside of a 'reasonable' or legitimate self defense claim. In fact had the MC shot the rapist, this is almost the epitome of 'good guy with a gun' vigilantism that gets lionized. It is Alice and the MC's word versus the rapist. Again, he'd be far more likely to get a parade than jail time.

Also, if the MC is 'wealthy', and 'wealthy people own airports', I'm sure he could afford any and all medical bills associated with the rapist's beatdown. So even if he had to pay them, sacrificing that money would be a drop in the bucket, and still worth it if it got a rapists off the street before they victimized another. Again, failure of the author here. They wanted to make the MC stupid rich so that money was no concern; that also means that being sued for money is no financial threat. The MC has 'Fuck You' money, he can afford a good lawyer, he won't be destitute and homeless for fighting a rapist to defend a victim. The MC has all the cards stacked in their favor, so if despite all that he acts as he did, then he's some combination of stupid, selfish, or greedy.

I'm not the one who wrote the character this way, I'm just observing and judging his actions. He was brave to step in and save Alice, he was callous to not even try to do the same for the boyfriend. To leave the rapist there and not involve police, and allow for future victimization, is negligent in the extreme. To be more concerned with the potential (and very nebulous) consequences to his license is supremely selfish. To think that any of this would have negative consequences, in spite of his vast wealth, makes him very stupid.

Do you think the protagonist wants to pay medical bills for an attempted rapist? No... of course not. Why would he? Do you think the protagonist wants to hire a bunch of high-priced lawyers, and go to court to defend himself against this rapist? Absolutely not. Just because he could afford to do so does not mean he would want to do so. Sounds like he just wanted to avoid all of that drama and get on with his life. It's not unreasonable for a person to want to avoid police interactions. Even if the police are friendly and professional it could mean hours of filling out paper work, looking at police lineups and needing to face someone that you never want to see again, which of course could lead to a lawsuit against you.

Only if you think not helping those in obvious need are assholes. If the MC kept on walking and didn't help Alice, would that make him an asshole? If yes, then how is him not helping the boyfriend different?

Spoiler: The difference is the author knows the boyfriend is a sociopath who staged the whole thing, and has the MC act in accordance with that knowledge. If the KC knew that going into the event, he'd be justified in not helping the boyfriend, and wouldn't be judged an asshole for not helping.

Remember that neither Alice or the MC know at the time that the event was staged. To the best of their current knowledge, in the moment, the boyfriend is in danger and needs help. Help they could have given, but didn't. There are plenty of words I could use to describe that level of callous disregard and inaction, 'asshole' just happened to be the one I chose. But whatever word you pick, it doesn't change the the fact of their actions. They knowingly abandoned the boyfriend to his fate when they thought he needed help. People we think of as 'heroic' wouldn't have done that.

Spider-Man or Super-Man wouldn't have done that. Hell even 'wealthy' playboy billionaire Bat-Man, Mr. 'I beat up criminals to cope for the death of my parents' himself, almost certainly wouldn't have done that.

MC never met the boyfriend at this point, and never even saw him and has no idea where he is. Was he supposed to go grab a flashlight, and get together a search party, and grab some bloodhounds trying to seek out and rescue a coward? Again as previously stated it's unknown if the guy is even alive at this point. What if they found him, and he was stabbed to death? That would traumatize Alice, and MC. What if they found him and the attacker was still there and had a gun then shot Alice or MC? Sounds like an awful lot of extra danger to put Alice and the MC in. Suppose the 2nd thug was unarmed, and they found him, but MC got in a fight with him, but broke his knuckle on his face... Well, there goes his dreams of being a boxer. Many bad things could have happened to MC or Alice had he seeked out to save Liam at this point. As the thug was a rapist it's not likely the boyfriend was in danger of being raped, and thought perhaps he may only get mugged and that would be that. The protagonist of an adult game can not be held up to the same moral standard as a comic book superhero. It would have been a foolish risk to go after Liam at this point for many many reasons.

Except we have every reason to doubt her, and the game proves it, when it pulls the rug out from under her claims and shows that the whole event was staged anyways.

She is telling the truth so far as she knows it.

Missing the point. The 'cowardice' of the boyfriend was a ploy, in reality he was malicious. But that's besides the point. In the moment, Alice thinks he's a coward. In the moment, the MC only knows what Alice can tell him. Even with the limited knowledge that Alice has, the MC should try to find and help the boyfriend.

Unless you rewrite the entire event, and incorporate a third-person perspective so that the audience can see the events themselves, there is no getting around the 'hearsay' problem if the MC arrives on the scene after the fact. So you'd need to redo the scene in such a way that the boyfriend was obviously malicious, which undermines the later reveal of his sociopathy. Conversely you can rewrite it so that the MC actually tries to do the right thing. Have them call the cops, have him go and try to find the boyfriend. Even if he fails, then at least he tried. But as of now, the MC didn't even try to help or call the police.

Getting the police involved is an unnecessary risk for reasons stated above.

Right. That's kinda the point. The fans are here giving me shit and facepalming my posts because they all know the boyfriend is a sociopath, and are judging his actions based on knowing that he staged the event. I didn't know that. At the time, neither would Alice and the MC. That they both act like assholes, in a way that could only be justified if they KNEW the boyfriend was a sociopath who staged the whole thing, is a failure of the author and the narrative. They're acting with complete moral authority, because the author 'knows' their actions are justified given the reality of the situation; the problem is that in the moment, neither the characters nor the audience has that 'knowledge'. So they're acting in accordance with things they don't know at the time. In the moment, that makes them huge assholes. The later revelation of this knowledge that back-fills and justifies their actions after-the-fact is just lazy writing.

Fans tend to defend what they are a fan of. They were never obligated to seek out and attempt to rescue Liam. Had he stayed and attempted to defend Alice and got injured then MC would have brought him to the hospital. He obviously didn't care enough about Alice to stick around for her, so why should MC care enough about this man he has never met to risk both his own life and Aliice in a foolish attempt to rescue a girls boyfriend who he wants to bang anyways? Liam at this point is a "Competing Male" for the love and affection of Alice. Why should he help the competition? This is not an NTR game.

C'mon, you can do better than that. Did you try reading anything more than just looking at the Google search results?

I can't read the paper itself, but at least read the abstract from this study.

You must be registered to see the links

The present study examines changes in women's sexual activity and behavior following sexual assault and the relationship between alcohol abuse and postassault promiscuity. Although many researchers have focused on avoidance of sexual activity following an assault, some have suggested that women may exhibit an increase in sexual activity postassault. Such outcomes are not mutually exclusive possibilities but may instead reflect subtypes of sexual assault victims. A significant percentage of assault survivors did report increases in sexual activity following trauma. Assault survivors also reported increases in posttraumatic alcohol consumption relative to a comparison sample of motor vehicle accident survivors. In both groups, increases in posttraumatic alcohol usage predicted increases in posttraumatic sexual activity, suggesting that use of alcohol as a coping strategy may result in an increased likelihood of engaging in risky sexual behavior. If true, this maladaptive coping mechanism could help to account for some instances of revictimization.

How much is a 'significant percentage'? No idea, can't access the paper. So sure, it is a thing, largely coupled with increased drinking and other coping mechanisms. But again her blowjob wasn't happening because it made more or less sense for her character, it happened because the author wanted his audience to get some lewds for that update and there is a quota that needs filling. That's kinda of a larger problem with the episodic content delivery structure of the vast majority of these crowdfunded erotica games. You are expected to do a certain amount of new lewd content each update, regardless of whether or not that makes sense for the characters or story.

There are no accurate numbers on this information, but they are statistically significant. Nothing is wrong with more lewd content either.

Again, I still think it's super gauche and lazy. Even if you wanted to take the 'more promiscuous as a form of coping' angle, the fact of the mater is that there isn't any 'coping' going on. She isn't drinking, the narrative doesn't give any inkling to her inside thoughts, there is no portrayal for the audience that she is perhaps struggling with the events and is maybe not completely sure or 100% comfortable with giving the blowjob but perhaps feels obligated to? That would at least be something, some acknowledgement that the events that happened had consequences, and weren't just a plot point.

Here is this big bad traumatic event, with no lasting consequences. Which undermines the event itself. Why should Alice be so upset with her boyfriend if she was so trauma-free as to give the MC a blowjob less than 24 hours after the fact? If she is so untroubled by the events that she can perform sexual acts with a near total stranger, then at the very least she should be able to let her boyfriend get a word in edgewise to explain himself. You can't have it both ways. She can't both be so traumatized as to act that way against her boyfriend, and simultaneously so trauma free to act that way towards the MC.

But no, the rape was just a plot point. She needs to yell at her boyfriend because the plot needs her to, because he is a sociopath (she doesn't know that). The plot also needs her to give the MC a blowjob because we need to hit our lewds quota for this update. So far, Alice is less a character, and more a plot device. Her actions don't read as organic, she just does what's required to move the plot forward. That is a consequence of weak writing and lack of strong characterization.

Sometimes thoughts are omitted to leave a little mystery. Of course the attempted rape was a plot point, and it is a very common trope in adult games. Many games have a "White Knight Moment" where you beat up a guy that is hurting a girl, and then score her for yourself. It's as common as the "Shower Peeper" or "Sleeper Creeper".

Right off the bat, love his work, and that was a great PBS short. I probably gonna be watching a lot more of these.

But I think you're missing the point, because that whole video on Moral Luck basically agrees with me.

Right off the bat it covers 'ought implies can'. Right. In the moment, the MC could intervene to help Alice, so he ought to. Likewise the MC, having demonstrated that they are more than capable of intervening and doing good (successfully rescuing Alice), learns of someone else in trouble (the boyfriend). He can help them, so he ought to. But he doesn't even try, and thus I judge him for his moral failure. That the author didn't is not my problem.

The MC saved Alice, then just because Alice calls her boyfriend a coward, the MC does nothing to even attempt to help the boyfriend. He didn't attempt to help the boyfriend and fail, he simply didn't even try. At best the makes the MC terribly inconsistent, his hero switch able to be turn off with but a single phrase from a sexy redhead with doe-eyes. The MC had his disposition to help undermined by someone else telling him that the person who needed help was a coward.

How does that not make the MC an asshole? I'd put someone who 'only saves potential fuck-buddies and lets everyone else rot' into the asshole category.

So to get back to your example, that's two people with the same disposition and actions, but one gets judged harsher than the other because bad luck caused their equally bad decisions to have worse consequences.

That's not what's happening with the MC. That's not what happened in my example with the loaded gun.

In my loaded gun example, the person has the disposition and intention to use the gun and does so. Even according to the video, it's the underlying disposition, not the consequences, that really deserve praise or derision. Not killing someone because the gun wasn't loaded does not change that fact that the person was willing to pull the trigger with the intent to kill. I can kinda see the connection in that the gun being unloaded resulted in nobody dying, which would be judged less harshly than an actual death. Which makes sense, murder is worse than attempted murder; but both are a moral indictment of the person willing pulling the trigger. The person's disposition was okay with them becoming a murder, even if by luck they didn't.

My point with the MC is that they're pulling the trigger, and only later do we learn the gun wasn't loaded; but that doesn't negate that he still pulled the trigger. He's still morally culpable for his disposition and his actions, even if the consequences turned out to be less so. In the moment, he made the choice to abandon the boyfriend, the very same thing Alice accused her boyfriend of doing. So at face value, the MC is no better than the boyfriend at the time. I'd argue that he's actually worse, since the MC demonstrated that he's actually capable and not a coward. He's clearly more capable to help than the boyfriend was, and yet he took the same action; he abandoned someone who needed help. In that light, the MC (in the moment) is worse than the boyfriend, according to the knowledge the audience has at the moment. The MC could have helped, and he ought to have helped; but chose not to. 'With great power comes great responsibility', and in that moment, the MC turned his back on his responsibility. That later we learn the whole thing was staged by a sociopath doesn't change the moral calculus that was made in the moment.

The MC doesn't get bonus good-boy points for abandoning the boyfriend, just because the gun wasn't loaded.


I'll leave you with this. If the mugging and rape had not been staged by the boyfriend, and he was in-fact just an innocent run of the mill coward, would Alice and the MC's actions be justified? Would they be assholes in that situation? Why or why not?

It would literally be the most cucked thing in the world for him at this point in time to go and try to rescue her cowardly boyfriend. He may as well strap on a charity cage, and buy Liam some Viagra's to have fun with Alice if that is what he wanted to do. He doesn't know Liam. He has no loyalty to Liam. He has no clue who this guy is and only knows him to be both a coward and a competitor for a love interest. It would be different if Liam were his friend, but Liam is just a stranger. It would be different if he walked up, and saw liam getting stomped on by some thug and walked away. Liam was nowhere to be found. He was gone like a fart in the wind. Had they heard him screaming for help in the distance it may be different, but he was nowhere to be found and simply gone. To go out of his way to rescue Liam makes absolutely no logical sense, and would only serve to put both MC and Alice in further danger.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Suppose the other mugger/rapist had a gun or a knife? Suppose there was a 3rd or 4th assailant unknown to the protagonist? Would it behoove him to take the girl he just rescued and put in her in danger again just to seek out and attempt to rescue her other love interest that has already proven himself to be a coward? It would be a very bad decision to seek out her boyfriend at this point for many reasons.

True, but those also applied when the MC rescued Alice; and that didn't stop him then, did it? The guy attacking Alice could have been armed, that didn't stop the MC. Could have been other muggers hiding around a corner in another alley, that didn't stop the MC. Again, when it came to the boyfriend, the MC didn't even try. He didn't even push back against Alice, that's how little he tried. It's not like he found the boyfriend cornered by 4 muggers and thought better of getting involved, he simply did nothing at all. He didn't try and fail, he just gave up and walked away.

Also, once again, being a coward does not make you immune to needing or deserving help. Spider-Man doesn't just help people who are brave or stupid enough to not run from a scary situation, and if Spider-Man refused to help those who were scared, we'd all rightly call him out on his bullshit. The MC isn't any different here. The boyfriend doesn't get a pass on empathy because he's a Machiavellian sociopath, when at the time the MC didn't know that.

Do you think the protagonist wants to pay medical bills for an attempted rapist? No... of course not. Why would he? Do you think the protagonist wants to hire a bunch of high-priced lawyers, and go to court to defend himself against this rapist? Absolutely not. Just because he could afford to do so does not mean he would want to do so. Sounds like he just wanted to avoid all of that drama and get on with his life. It's not unreasonable for a person to want to avoid police interactions. Even if the police are friendly and professional it could mean hours of filling out paper work, looking at police lineups and needing to face someone that you never want to see again, which of course could lead to a lawsuit against you.

Cry me a fucking river. The MC has 'Fuck You' money, doesn't have a day job, he can afford to be mildly inconvenienced (at the worst) to stop a rapist from victimizing someone else. That the MC does nothing to apprehend and prevent the rapist from acting again later, makes both Alice and the MC culpable in any actions the rapist does while free of police custody, including more sexual assault. If that rapist that they let go free then rapes someone else, Alice and the MC will be partially responsible for that; since their inaction directly enabled his behavior.

Forgive me if I kinda don't care when a playboy billionaire cries 'woe is me' cause dealing with the police is 'hard'. Generally speaking, dealing with the police is 'hard' when you're poor and they're cracking down on you; not when you're a rich, white, male vigilante who acted perfectly within establish norms of self defense.

Again, I didn't write the MC to be someone with the entire deck stacked in his favor, the author did. That even with every possible advantage on his side, he can't be bothered to simply call the police? Sorry, no, but fuck that. Letting the rapist go is a dick move. It means that Alice and the MC care more about their own inconvenience than for the safety and wellbeing of the rapists' next victim. That makes them colossal, selfish, assholes. Alice was worth the effort of saving, but not even she can be bothered to put in the bare minimum effort to stop her victimization from repeating with someone else. Yeah, I don't feel bad about calling her an asshole in this instance; she earned it.

Being a victims doesn't make you immune from critique when you allow others to be further victimized through your own inaction.

MC never met the boyfriend at this point, and never even saw him and has no idea where he is. Was he supposed to go grab a flashlight, and get together a search party, and grab some bloodhounds trying to seek out and rescue a coward? Again as previously stated it's unknown if the guy is even alive at this point. What if they found him, and he was stabbed to death? That would traumatize Alice, and MC. What if they found him and the attacker was still there and had a gun then shot Alice or MC? Sounds like an awful lot of extra danger to put Alice and the MC in. Suppose the 2nd thug was unarmed, and they found him, but MC got in a fight with him, but broke his knuckle on his face... Well, there goes his dreams of being a boxer. Many bad things could have happened to MC or Alice had he seeked out to save Liam at this point. As the thug was a rapist it's not likely the boyfriend was in danger of being raped, and thought perhaps he may only get mugged and that would be that. The protagonist of an adult game can not be held up to the same moral standard as a comic book superhero. It would have been a foolish risk to go after Liam at this point for many many reasons.

Do you want to know what perfectly reasonable, every day action, that the MC could do to have absolved himself of doing nothing more to help someone in need?

He could have called the fucking police.

Let them come down in their squad cars, armed with guns and flashlights. Let them being K9 units to search for him. Let them bring along the paramedics and EMS to check on everyone, make sure they're actually okay.

Ironically enough, beating someone into unconsciousness and THEN leaving them in the street without calling for paramedics (even in self defense), WOULD open the MC up to potential criminal or civil liability.

But no, he couldn't even be bothered to do that. Again, I'm not expecting him to be a super hero. Even intervening the way he did to save Alice was stupid, because of all the unknowns (more muggers, hidden weapons, etc.). But the MC did help, then turned a blind eye. So does the MC only save those who he thinks he can fuck? Does the MC think people who break under pressure in extreme circumstances deserve to be raped, beaten, or killed? Or is this an instance of bad writing, because the author had the MC treat the boyfriend with contempt bred of knowledge he didn't have?

Pick one.

The simple answer is the later one, it is just bad writing. The author didn't intend for the MC to be a colossal asshole, but by not being careful, they wrote him that way. That's not my fault, that's the author's; I'm just calling it like I see it.

She is telling the truth so far as she knows it.

I know. There is a difference between skepticism and belief or disbelief. You don't have to believe she is lying, to be skeptical of her claims; and being skeptical of her claims does not imply that you think she is lying. Lying is overt, done on purpose. Even if she were being as truthful as she could, there is always the possibility for misremembering things that were misperceived. People do it all the time. Our brains are quite terrible at retaining information accurately, we fudge stuff in our memories all the time. It's why you can't remember the first sentence of this post from memory alone, and you weren't even in the middle of being assaulted when you were reading it.

Getting the police involved is an unnecessary risk for reasons stated above.

Again, he's a rich, white, man. He has every advantage on his side. The only reasons to not do anything are callous, selfish ones. That makes him an asshole.

Don't like it? Then have the MC suck it up, put in the work of being mildly inconvenienced for an hour or so, and have him do the right thing.

But getting the police involved would probably just make the conspiracy theory shenanigans even messier, so best to not involve them, yes? So again, it's a problem with bad writing. Police involvement doesn't fit into the plot, so lets handwave them away in the laziest way possible; even if it makes Alice and the MC huge assholes. No worries, turns out they'll be vindicated later when they learn the whole things was staged by that sociopath of a boyfriend!



Except that doesn't work. Most players don't notice this failure because they not being especially critical reader. Even then,

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is a real thing, and it is something this game has indulged in.

Fans tend to defend what they are a fan of. They were never obligated to seek out and attempt to rescue Liam. Had he stayed and attempted to defend Alice and got injured then MC would have brought him to the hospital. He obviously didn't care enough about Alice to stick around for her, so why should MC care enough about this man he has never met to risk both his own life and Aliice in a foolish attempt to rescue a girls boyfriend who he wants to bang anyways? Liam at this point is a "Competing Male" for the love and affection of Alice. Why should he help the competition? This is not an NTR game.

Le sigh...

You are making the very same mistake whoever wrote this part did. You are judging the MC's actions in the moment, with knowledge of what happens after. That's the problem I've been trying to highlight. Hindsight is 20/20, but that doesn't absolve you of being judged for your actions in the moment.

Again, you don't get good-boy points when you pulled the trigger with intent to kill, but the gun isn't loaded.

You are assigning motive to the boyfriend in a way that the MC could not possibly do so at the time. You claim he obviously didn't care, so why should the MC? There is no way in hell the MC could know that. Alice could claim so, but she too would be talking out of her ass. The only one who knew what was going on in the boyfriend's head, his actual motives, was the boyfriend (and the author). The MC shouldn't have access to that knowledge at that time.

You don't get to say the MC isn't an asshole, because the MC's acted in accordance with secret knowledge he shouldn't have access too.

We've already established that the MC is foolish. He got into a fight to save Alice. But then he can't be bothered to do anything for the boyfriend? Can't go looking for him, can't even call the cops; nothing. If he can do something, he aught to do something; that he doesn't at all is a testament to his moral failure. Unless you're cool with people who do foolish things only to save potential fuck-buddies?

Sometimes thoughts are omitted to leave a little mystery. Of course the attempted rape was a plot point, and it is a very common trope in adult games. Many games have a "White Knight Moment" where you beat up a guy that is hurting a girl, and then score her for yourself. It's as common as the "Shower Peeper" or "Sleeper Creeper".

So? There are better and worse ways to execute tropes. This is an example of how to do so poorly.

It would literally be the most cucked thing in the world for him at this point in time to go and try to rescue her cowardly boyfriend. He may as well strap on a charity cage, and buy Liam some Viagra's to have fun with Alice if that is what he wanted to do.

What the actual fuck?

Is Bat-Man a cuck every time he saves Lois Lane and doesn't do so for the express purpose of fucking her out from under Superman? What about Harley Quin and the Joker?

Jesus, if you think rescuing a stranger who needs your help makes you a 'cuck', you have some serious issues you need to sort out in your personal life.

At this point in the story, both Alice and Liam are strangers to the MC. I would hope that in this situation, any decent person wouldn't be thinking about how best to fuck Alice moments after rescuing her from sexual assault. A decent person wouldn't be planning on how to leave a stranger to their doom, just to make it easier to fuck their girlfriend. I mean, really now, I shouldn't even have to be writing this. I feel embarrassed for you, personally, that I have to explicitly spell this out.

He doesn't know Liam. He has no loyalty to Liam. He has no clue who this guy is and only knows him to be both a coward and a competitor for a love interest.

Okay, so the MC knows they're the protagonist of an erotica game? They know that Alice is a piece of meat he needs to be fighting over? That's the only way that sentence makes any goddamn sense.

Cause, you know, generally decent people who are in a position to help others and do so aren't just doing it for all the free pussy.

It would be different if Liam were his friend, but Liam is just a stranger.

PRECISELY MY POINT.

Too bad you don't seem to get it.

The MC doesn't know him, other than he was mugged, ran off, and is probably in danger right now. That is all the information the MC has. This is why the MC is, in this moment, an asshole. The MC, not knowing Liam at all personally, passes moral judgement on him and condemns him to his fate; presumably one that involves Liam coming to very real harm.

That's why the MC is an asshole. The MC didn't know Liam at all, but turned his back on him when he could have helped. The MC judged Liam to not be worth helping. In that moment, the MC is in the wrong. In that moment, the MC is being a colossal asshole.

Again, if this was not intended, then this is a failure of the author.

It would be different if he walked up, and saw liam getting stomped on by some thug and walked away. Liam was nowhere to be found. He was gone like a fart in the wind. Had they heard him screaming for help in the distance it may be different, but he was nowhere to be found and simply gone. To go out of his way to rescue Liam makes absolutely no logical sense, and would only serve to put both MC and Alice in further danger.

Then call the cops.

Call the cops.

Suck it up, call the cops.

Oh boo-hoo, gotta sit down for an exit interview with the police for an hour. Don't care. Call the fucking cops.

If the MC was so averse to getting involved and being 'bothered', he should have just kept on walking by and left Alice to her fate. At least that would have given him a consistent character trait...

Let the police know there is a unconscious rapist that needs arrested, with another mugger on the loose, and someone else potentially in danger. Nobody would hold it against the MC if he cut his loses after putting his life on the line to rescue Alice, so long as he did the bare minimum to help the missing boyfriend. Even if he didn't succeed in rescuing Liam (because the author wants him around to do his sociopath thing later), the MC needed to TRY. He needed to do something. He didn't. Not only that, but they let a rapist go free in the process.

That's bad. Alice and the MC fucked up, they're both on the hook for it, and should be judged accordingly.

This is, again, the fault of the author. I didn't write an MC with magical foreknowledge. If you don't like that Alice and the MC are huge, culpable assholes in this instance; stop defending their indefensible actions and start rewriting the scene to be less problematic. This entire mess is real easy to fix with a few key changes, you just gotta write them in. Alice and the MC don't have to remain morally compromised assholes, they can be saved, their story can be changed. Hell, I could do it. That's the entire point of all this! That in the moment, the characters were assholes; and I figured that wasn't part of the author's intent. If the author doesn't want them to stay assholes, the author can fix that. These games aren't written in stone after all.

That's why I enjoy critiquing this stuff. Part of it is getting to flex my creativity muscles, and part of it is hoping that I can help improve some of the games around here. Just about everyone making these is a complete amateur, and almost every one of them can be improved in some way or another. I can't afford to back project financially, so this is my way to try to give something back to the community; honest art college level critique. I'm not trying to shit on this game, but just like many others, it could be better.

 

[cxx]

needs to restart from scratch? when i try to load save from last version before this game throws fit.

 

[yihman1]

True, but those also applied when the MC rescued Alice; and that didn't stop him then, did it? The guy attacking Alice could have been armed, that didn't stop the MC. Could have been other muggers hiding around a corner in another alley, that didn't stop the MC. Again, when it came to the boyfriend, the MC didn't even try. He didn't even push back against Alice, that's how little he tried. It's not like he found the boyfriend cornered by 4 muggers and thought better of getting involved, he simply did nothing at all. He didn't try and fail, he just gave up and walked away.

Also, once again, being a coward does not make you immune to needing or deserving help. Spider-Man doesn't just help people who are brave or stupid enough to not run from a scary situation, and if Spider-Man refused to help those who were scared, we'd all rightly call him out on his bullshit. The MC isn't any different here. The boyfriend doesn't get a pass on empathy because he's a Machiavellian sociopath, when at the time the MC didn't know that.

If you give money to a homeless man once are you then obligated to give money to every homeless man every time one asks? No, you are not. If you run into a burning building to save a baby are you then obligated to run into every burning building you see? No, again you are not.

Sure, cowards can need help and so can villains, and that does not make them immune to receiving it, nor does it mean they deserve this help. Literally, anyone can need help. Had the attempted rapist shouted over to the protagonist and said, "Hey can hold her down for me, please as you can see that she is being rather difficult at the moment? I would very much appreciate your help good Sir!" Would he have been obligated to give that help?

If you asked a group of random soldiers "Which man should we try to go on a rescue mission for?" The one that earned a

You must be registered to see the links

, or the one that went

You must be registered to see the links

in the middle of the battle? Who do you think the soldiers would be more enthusiastic about putting their necks on the line for?

Cry me a fucking river. The MC has 'Fuck You' money, doesn't have a day job, he can afford to be mildly inconvenienced (at the worst) to stop a rapist from victimizing someone else. That the MC does nothing to apprehend and prevent the rapist from acting again later, makes both Alice and the MC culpable in any actions the rapist does while free of police custody, including more sexual assault. If that rapist that they let go free then rapes someone else, Alice and the MC will be partially responsible for that; since their inaction directly enabled his behavior.

Forgive me if I kinda don't care when a playboy billionaire cries 'woe is me' cause dealing with the police is 'hard'. Generally speaking, dealing with the police is 'hard' when you're poor and they're cracking down on you; not when you're a rich, white, male vigilante who acted perfectly within establish norms of self defense.

Again, I didn't write the MC to be someone with the entire deck stacked in his favor, the author did. That even with every possible advantage on his side, he can't be bothered to simply call the police? Sorry, no, but fuck that. Letting the rapist go is a dick move. It means that Alice and the MC care more about their own inconvenience than for the safety and wellbeing of the rapists' next victim. That makes them colossal, selfish, assholes. Alice was worth the effort of saving, but not even she can be bothered to put in the bare minimum effort to stop her victimization from repeating with someone else. Yeah, I don't feel bad about calling her an asshole in this instance; she earned it.

Being a victims doesn't make you immune from critique when you allow others to be further victimized through your own inaction.

Only rapists are responsible for rape. Many women are raped, but out of fear or shame or some other reason do not report it. This does not mean that these women are now responsible for what that rapist does next for not seeking out the police. What you are doing here is a form of victim-blaming. ONLY RAPISTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR RAPE.

As a citizen, you are not obligated to report every crime you know something about. They would only be in the wrong if they at some point lied to the police protecting a dangerous criminal. As a person, you are not morally bound to help every person that may be in need disregarding the risk to yourself. I know there are a lot of hungry kids in Africa, and I am fully aware of this. I do not need to sell all my stuff, and buy them as much food as I can. A lot of people need blood. I am not required to donate a pint every couple of days to keep supplies up. Would it be nice if I donated a few bucks to those hungry kids every now and then, and maybe once a year went down to give blood? Sure it would! However, I do not owe them anything and I have no obligation to give help.

Do you want to know what perfectly reasonable, every day action, that the MC could do to have absolved himself of doing nothing more to help someone in need?

He could have called the fucking police.

Let them come down in their squad cars, armed with guns and flashlights. Let them being K9 units to search for him. Let them bring along the paramedics and EMS to check on everyone, make sure they're actually okay.

Ironically enough, beating someone into unconsciousness and THEN leaving them in the street without calling for paramedics (even in self defense), WOULD open the MC up to potential criminal or civil liability.

But no, he couldn't even be bothered to do that. Again, I'm not expecting him to be a super hero. Even intervening the way he did to save Alice was stupid, because of all the unknowns (more muggers, hidden weapons, etc.). But the MC did help, then turned a blind eye. So does the MC only save those who he thinks he can fuck? Does the MC think people who break under pressure in extreme circumstances deserve to be raped, beaten, or killed? Or is this an instance of bad writing, because the author had the MC treat the boyfriend with contempt bred of knowledge he didn't have?

Pick one.

The simple answer is the later one, it is just bad writing. The author didn't intend for the MC to be a colossal asshole, but by not being careful, they wrote him that way. That's not my fault, that's the author's; I'm just calling it like I see it.

There are many reasons to not involve the police here.

Exactly my point when you say not calling a paramedic for someone you acted in self-defense for may open you up to some sort of criminal liability. That's why it is best to avoid police. Could our protagonist prove that it was self defense? What if upon waking up the attempted rapist said, "That guy jumped me with that girl. I want them arrested!" He said she said. The police would need to further investigate if this attempted rapist accused them of anything to avoid accountability for his own wicked actions.

I know. There is a difference between skepticism and belief or disbelief. You don't have to believe she is lying, to be skeptical of her claims; and being skeptical of her claims does not imply that you think she is lying. Lying is overt, done on purpose. Even if she were being as truthful as she could, there is always the possibility for misremembering things that were misperceived. People do it all the time. Our brains are quite terrible at retaining information accurately, we fudge stuff in our memories all the time. It's why you can't remember the first sentence of this post from memory alone, and you weren't even in the middle of being assaulted when you were reading it.

Showing doubt to a victim is a good way to get them to shut down completely. Skepticism and disbelief can both be considered forms of doubt. Of course, we are all flawed humans, and 100 people seeing the same thing can tell 100 stories about what happened. A lot of people forget minor details, and there is change blindness. Then you got the Mandela Effect.

Again, he's a rich, white, man. He has every advantage on his side. The only reasons to not do anything are callous, selfish ones. That makes him an asshole.

Don't like it? Then have the MC suck it up, put in the work of being mildly inconvenienced for an hour or so, and have him do the right thing.

But getting the police involved would probably just make the conspiracy theory shenanigans even messier, so best to not involve them, yes? So again, it's a problem with bad writing. Police involvement doesn't fit into the plot, so lets handwave them away in the laziest way possible; even if it makes Alice and the MC huge assholes. No worries, turns out they'll be vindicated later when they learn the whole things was staged by that sociopath of a boyfriend!

Except that doesn't work. Most players don't notice this failure because they not being especially critical reader. Even then,

You must be registered to see the links

is a real thing, and it is something this game has indulged in.

His race should not be a factor here. His place on the socioeconomic ladder should not be a factor either. Nor should his gender.

It's could be much more than a mild inconvenience if he did as you are suggesting. What if these are gang members. What if they decide "Let's kill this guy before he can testify in court!"

MC and Alice are in no way assholes for just wanting to get on with their life. It's a perfectly normal and understandable response given the circumstances.

Le sigh...

You are making the very same mistake whoever wrote this part did. You are judging the MC's actions in the moment, with knowledge of what happens after. That's the problem I've been trying to highlight. Hindsight is 20/20, but that doesn't absolve you of being judged for your actions in the moment.

Again, you don't get good-boy points when you pulled the trigger with intent to kill, but the gun isn't loaded.

You are assigning motive to the boyfriend in a way that the MC could not possibly do so at the time. You claim he obviously didn't care, so why should the MC? There is no way in hell the MC could know that. Alice could claim so, but she too would be talking out of her ass. The only one who knew what was going on in the boyfriend's head, his actual motives, was the boyfriend (and the author). The MC shouldn't have access to that knowledge at that time.

You don't get to say the MC isn't an asshole, because the MC's acted in accordance with secret knowledge he shouldn't have access too.

We've already established that the MC is foolish. He got into a fight to save Alice. But then he can't be bothered to do anything for the boyfriend? Can't go looking for him, can't even call the cops; nothing. If he can do something, he aught to do something; that he doesn't at all is a testament to his moral failure. Unless you're cool with people who do foolish things only to save potential fuck-buddies?

The MC has no moral obligation to help Liam as doing so could put himself, and Alice at risk. Additionally, the same is true of calling the police to help Liam or a paramedic for the attempted rapist. They can literally just go home at this point. They don't owe anyone anything.

It's not that Alice was a potential fuck buddy at this point. Had he instead have found an old man getting mugged by the same thug he would have stopped to help the old man at this point too in exactly the same way.

So? There are better and worse ways to execute tropes. This is an example of how to do so poorly.

Not everyone is required to enjoy everything. That's okay if you don't. Other people do.

What the actual fuck?

Is Bat-Man a cuck every time he saves Lois Lane and doesn't do so for the express purpose of fucking her out from under Superman? What about Harley Quin and the Joker?

Jesus, if you think rescuing a stranger who needs your help makes you a 'cuck', you have some serious issues you need to sort out in your personal life.

At this point in the story, both Alice and Liam are strangers to the MC. I would hope that in this situation, any decent person wouldn't be thinking about how best to fuck Alice moments after rescuing her from sexual assault. A decent person wouldn't be planning on how to leave a stranger to their doom, just to make it easier to fuck their girlfriend. I mean, really now, I shouldn't even have to be writing this. I feel embarrassed for you, personally, that I have to explicitly spell this out.

You are mixing up your comics. Superman is usually the one who saves Lois Lane.

Putting a traumatized woman that you have a sexual interest in into further danger to rescue her cowardly boyfriend is the cuck move 100%. Had he rescued Liam was MC to sit in the corner and jerk off when they had make-up sex that night? Do you think they would have let him watch for his good deeds, and being a good boy?

Okay, so the MC knows they're the protagonist of an erotica game? They know that Alice is a piece of meat he needs to be fighting over? That's the only way that sentence makes any goddamn sense.

Cause, you know, generally decent people who are in a position to help others and do so aren't just doing it for all the free pussy.

Interesting question, and no the MC does not break the fourth wall and make themself aware they are living in a game world. The character has not been written in that way.

However, that does not stop them from acting in a fashion that would be the "norm" in an adult game, but may not be the "norm" in real life.

PRECISELY MY POINT.

Too bad you don't seem to get it.

The MC doesn't know him, other than he was mugged, ran off, and is probably in danger right now. That is all the information the MC has. This is why the MC is, in this moment, an asshole. The MC, not knowing Liam at all personally, passes moral judgement on him and condemns him to his fate; presumably one that involves Liam coming to very real harm.

That's why the MC is an asshole. The MC didn't know Liam at all, but turned his back on him when he could have helped. The MC judged Liam to not be worth helping. In that moment, the MC is in the wrong. In that moment, the MC is being a colossal asshole.

Again, if this was not intended, then this is a failure of the author.

All that the MC knows about Liam at this point is 3 things. 1 he is a coward. 2 he is a competitor for a love interest. 3 he may be in need of a rescue. Of those 3 things, 2 of them say "I better not help this guy." It's reasonable for him to not help this guy given the information he knows at the time.

True, but those also applied when the MC rescued Alice; and that didn't stop him then, did it? The guy attacking Alice could have been armed, that didn't stop the MC. Could have been other muggers hiding around a corner in another alley, that didn't stop the MC. Again, when it came to the boyfriend, the MC didn't even try. He didn't even push back against Alice, that's how little he tried. It's not like he found the boyfriend cornered by 4 muggers and thought better of getting involved, he simply did nothing at all. He didn't try and fail, he just gave up and walked away.

Also, once again, being a coward does not make you immune to needing or deserving help. Spider-Man doesn't just help people who are brave or stupid enough to not run from a scary situation, and if Spider-Man refused to help those who were scared, we'd all rightly call him out on his bullshit. The MC isn't any different here. The boyfriend doesn't get a pass on empathy because he's a Machiavellian sociopath, when at the time the MC didn't know that.




Cry me a fucking river. The MC has 'Fuck You' money, doesn't have a day job, he can afford to be mildly inconvenienced (at the worst) to stop a rapist from victimizing someone else. That the MC does nothing to apprehend and prevent the rapist from acting again later, makes both Alice and the MC culpable in any actions the rapist does while free of police custody, including more sexual assault. If that rapist that they let go free then rapes someone else, Alice and the MC will be partially responsible for that; since their inaction directly enabled his behavior.

Forgive me if I kinda don't care when a playboy billionaire cries 'woe is me' cause dealing with the police is 'hard'. Generally speaking, dealing with the police is 'hard' when you're poor and they're cracking down on you; not when you're a rich, white, male vigilante who acted perfectly within establish norms of self defense.

Again, I didn't write the MC to be someone with the entire deck stacked in his favor, the author did. That even with every possible advantage on his side, he can't be bothered to simply call the police? Sorry, no, but fuck that. Letting the rapist go is a dick move. It means that Alice and the MC care more about their own inconvenience than for the safety and wellbeing of the rapists' next victim. That makes them colossal, selfish, assholes. Alice was worth the effort of saving, but not even she can be bothered to put in the bare minimum effort to stop her victimization from repeating with someone else. Yeah, I don't feel bad about calling her an asshole in this instance; she earned it.

Being a victims doesn't make you immune from critique when you allow others to be further victimized through your own inaction.




Do you want to know what perfectly reasonable, every day action, that the MC could do to have absolved himself of doing nothing more to help someone in need?

He could have called the fucking police.

Let them come down in their squad cars, armed with guns and flashlights. Let them being K9 units to search for him. Let them bring along the paramedics and EMS to check on everyone, make sure they're actually okay.

Ironically enough, beating someone into unconsciousness and THEN leaving them in the street without calling for paramedics (even in self defense), WOULD open the MC up to potential criminal or civil liability.

But no, he couldn't even be bothered to do that. Again, I'm not expecting him to be a super hero. Even intervening the way he did to save Alice was stupid, because of all the unknowns (more muggers, hidden weapons, etc.). But the MC did help, then turned a blind eye. So does the MC only save those who he thinks he can fuck? Does the MC think people who break under pressure in extreme circumstances deserve to be raped, beaten, or killed? Or is this an instance of bad writing, because the author had the MC treat the boyfriend with contempt bred of knowledge he didn't have?

Pick one.

The simple answer is the later one, it is just bad writing. The author didn't intend for the MC to be a colossal asshole, but by not being careful, they wrote him that way. That's not my fault, that's the author's; I'm just calling it like I see it.




I know. There is a difference between skepticism and belief or disbelief. You don't have to believe she is lying, to be skeptical of her claims; and being skeptical of her claims does not imply that you think she is lying. Lying is overt, done on purpose. Even if she were being as truthful as she could, there is always the possibility for misremembering things that were misperceived. People do it all the time. Our brains are quite terrible at retaining information accurately, we fudge stuff in our memories all the time. It's why you can't remember the first sentence of this post from memory alone, and you weren't even in the middle of being assaulted when you were reading it.




Again, he's a rich, white, man. He has every advantage on his side. The only reasons to not do anything are callous, selfish ones. That makes him an asshole.

Don't like it? Then have the MC suck it up, put in the work of being mildly inconvenienced for an hour or so, and have him do the right thing.

But getting the police involved would probably just make the conspiracy theory shenanigans even messier, so best to not involve them, yes? So again, it's a problem with bad writing. Police involvement doesn't fit into the plot, so lets handwave them away in the laziest way possible; even if it makes Alice and the MC huge assholes. No worries, turns out they'll be vindicated later when they learn the whole things was staged by that sociopath of a boyfriend!

View attachment 1484090

Except that doesn't work. Most players don't notice this failure because they not being especially critical reader. Even then,

You must be registered to see the links

is a real thing, and it is something this game has indulged in.




Le sigh...

You are making the very same mistake whoever wrote this part did. You are judging the MC's actions in the moment, with knowledge of what happens after. That's the problem I've been trying to highlight. Hindsight is 20/20, but that doesn't absolve you of being judged for your actions in the moment.

Again, you don't get good-boy points when you pulled the trigger with intent to kill, but the gun isn't loaded.

You are assigning motive to the boyfriend in a way that the MC could not possibly do so at the time. You claim he obviously didn't care, so why should the MC? There is no way in hell the MC could know that. Alice could claim so, but she too would be talking out of her ass. The only one who knew what was going on in the boyfriend's head, his actual motives, was the boyfriend (and the author). The MC shouldn't have access to that knowledge at that time.

You don't get to say the MC isn't an asshole, because the MC's acted in accordance with secret knowledge he shouldn't have access too.

We've already established that the MC is foolish. He got into a fight to save Alice. But then he can't be bothered to do anything for the boyfriend? Can't go looking for him, can't even call the cops; nothing. If he can do something, he aught to do something; that he doesn't at all is a testament to his moral failure. Unless you're cool with people who do foolish things only to save potential fuck-buddies?




So? There are better and worse ways to execute tropes. This is an example of how to do so poorly.




What the actual fuck?

Is Bat-Man a cuck every time he saves Lois Lane and doesn't do so for the express purpose of fucking her out from under Superman? What about Harley Quin and the Joker?

Jesus, if you think rescuing a stranger who needs your help makes you a 'cuck', you have some serious issues you need to sort out in your personal life.

At this point in the story, both Alice and Liam are strangers to the MC. I would hope that in this situation, any decent person wouldn't be thinking about how best to fuck Alice moments after rescuing her from sexual assault. A decent person wouldn't be planning on how to leave a stranger to their doom, just to make it easier to fuck their girlfriend. I mean, really now, I shouldn't even have to be writing this. I feel embarrassed for you, personally, that I have to explicitly spell this out.




Okay, so the MC knows they're the protagonist of an erotica game? They know that Alice is a piece of meat he needs to be fighting over? That's the only way that sentence makes any goddamn sense.

Cause, you know, generally decent people who are in a position to help others and do so aren't just doing it for all the free pussy.





PRECISELY MY POINT.

Too bad you don't seem to get it.

The MC doesn't know him, other than he was mugged, ran off, and is probably in danger right now. That is all the information the MC has. This is why the MC is, in this moment, an asshole. The MC, not knowing Liam at all personally, passes moral judgement on him and condemns him to his fate; presumably one that involves Liam coming to very real harm.

That's why the MC is an asshole. The MC didn't know Liam at all, but turned his back on him when he could have helped. The MC judged Liam to not be worth helping. In that moment, the MC is in the wrong. In that moment, the MC is being a colossal asshole.

Again, if this was not intended, then this is a failure of the author.




Then call the cops.

Call the cops.

Suck it up, call the cops.

Oh boo-hoo, gotta sit down for an exit interview with the police for an hour. Don't care. Call the fucking cops.

If the MC was so averse to getting involved and being 'bothered', he should have just kept on walking by and left Alice to her fate. At least that would have given him a consistent character trait...

Let the police know there is a unconscious rapist that needs arrested, with another mugger on the loose, and someone else potentially in danger. Nobody would hold it against the MC if he cut his loses after putting his life on the line to rescue Alice, so long as he did the bare minimum to help the missing boyfriend. Even if he didn't succeed in rescuing Liam (because the author wants him around to do his sociopath thing later), the MC needed to TRY. He needed to do something. He didn't. Not only that, but they let a rapist go free in the process.

That's bad. Alice and the MC fucked up, they're both on the hook for it, and should be judged accordingly.

This is, again, the fault of the author. I didn't write an MC with magical foreknowledge. If you don't like that Alice and the MC are huge, culpable assholes in this instance; stop defending their indefensible actions and start rewriting the scene to be less problematic. This entire mess is real easy to fix with a few key changes, you just gotta write them in. Alice and the MC don't have to remain morally compromised assholes, they can be saved, their story can be changed. Hell, I could do it. That's the entire point of all this! That in the moment, the characters were assholes; and I figured that wasn't part of the author's intent. If the author doesn't want them to stay assholes, the author can fix that. These games aren't written in stone after all.

That's why I enjoy critiquing this stuff. Part of it is getting to flex my creativity muscles, and part of it is hoping that I can help improve some of the games around here. Just about everyone making these is a complete amateur, and almost every one of them can be improved in some way or another. I can't afford to back project financially, so this is my way to try to give something back to the community; honest art college level critique. I'm not trying to shit on this game, but just like many others, it could be better.

It would be both a major inconvenience, and an unnecessary risk to call the police at this point in time.

Which sounds like a more enjoyable evening?

Evening 1: Sitting down at the police station looking through mugshots being interrogated and asked a million questions.

Evening 2: Going home with a pretty girl and making her night better than it started out.

Only a great fool would choose the police option.

 

[yihman1]

needs to restart from scratch? when i try to load save from last version before this game throws fit.

Changing between versions of the game will have this effect. By version of the game I am not talking "Rounds".

I am talking:

Official release, walkthrough mod, and compressed.

Stick to 1 version, or saves are likely to break.

 

[cxx]

Changing between versions of the game will have this effect. By version of the game I am not talking "Rounds".

I am talking:

Official release, walkthrough mod, and compressed.

Stick to 1 version, or saves are likely to break.

last played round 6 to end but last save (or any save) of that just crashes. throws bunch of errors with or w/o wt-mod and i don't touch compressed versions.

will be a "a bit" to replay.

 

[Darklord1234]

Holy walls of text Batman! I just have one question for the guy deconstructing the dev's story...where's your game bro?

P.S.: You come off as a self-righteous prick and not as someone who is trying to "help".