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erkper

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2018
1,660
2,203
look up the genre bodice ripper.
I'm not sure how referring to fictional works contradicts my statement about women in the real world, but w/e. I will acknowledge that there are some few people in the real world somewhere that like anything you'd care to mention. I seriously doubt, in this specific case, you could convince me that EVERY leader of EVERY fiefdom would ascribe to this particular extreme kink. And it's all irrelevant, anyways. He says everyone gets a free pass on Karder raping the women when they are captured, but then says he won't ever pander to the idea of women getting raped then building a consensual, willing relationship with him. That's EXACTLY what he has set up now if you choose the seduction route in the castle. The only difference is the location of the rape(s).
 

Doorknob22

Super Moderator
Moderator
Game Developer
Nov 3, 2017
2,153
5,205
Isn't that basically what you're already doing with the game now? You can ravish every wench when you conquer their fiefdom and then play them the "seduce" route and they're a-ok with that, because, as you specifically put it previously, you give the player a free pass on those rapes. I can't think of many women in the real world that would forgive and forget and work closely with, and for the benefit of, their rapist - without coercion.
I'm not going to wiggle my way to some morally flawed excuse on how this makes sense, I simply think the post-combat-ravishments are very in theme of the game and I want people to enjoy them without suffering consequences later on. Like infinite ammo, health potions and limitless carrying ability, it's a clear case of Gameplay Vs. Realism where I knowingly chose to bend my own rules in favor of more streamlined gameplay. I thought a lot about this exact dilemma before implementing the feature in 0.2.

In the future I might amend this either by allowing players to toggle it off (there's a big toggle-features screen coming in 0.5) or by offering "moment of passion" post combat consensual sex as an alternative to ravishment. Hmmm...

I actually had your answer here in mind when I wrote that;

Has your view changed or is there a distinction there?
I don't think there's a distinction here so I'll go with "my view changed".
 

erkper

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2018
1,660
2,203
I'm not going to wiggle my way to some morally flawed excuse on how this makes sense, I simply think the post-combat-ravishments are very in theme of the game and I want people to enjoy them without suffering consequences later on. Like infinite ammo, health potions and limitless carrying ability, it's a clear case of Gameplay Vs. Realism where I knowingly chose to bend my own rules in favor of more streamlined gameplay. I thought a lot about this exact dilemma before implementing the feature in 0.2.

In the future I might amend this either by allowing players to toggle it off (there's a big toggle-features screen coming in 0.5) or by offering "moment of passion" post combat consensual sex as an alternative to ravishment. Hmmm...
Fair. I kind of expected that reply about the reasoning based on how you'd worded the free pass comments previously, I was just surprised you didn't comment on that exception when you mentioned the "actions have consequences" stuff. And I do agree, the post-combat ravishments are very much in theme with the game.

Making it a toggle-able feature makes sense, if you're setting up that kind of switching anyways. Not sure about the consensual moment of passion though. Based on the characters you're establishing for the wenches - especially with them being Wakabian - that seems even less likely and more "moral hand-washy" than the free pass commentary now in place.
 

Quadrifrons

New Member
Jun 26, 2020
8
10
Not sure about the consensual moment of passion though. Based on the characters you're establishing for the wenches - especially with them being Wakabian - that seems even less likely and more "moral hand-washy" than the free pass commentary now in place.
I feel like you could apply the same logic to the seduction path in general. With Nahir it makes sense, because she's in over her head and would gladly submit to someone who took that responsibility away from her after a token resistance. The other three feel like they'd need to be more forcibly "conquered" before they'd voluntarily submit.
 
Feb 12, 2021
434
524
Vae Victis - Khan was released one year ago, so in order to celebrate it I want to build a massive wall of text and leave it here for people who are completely bored and enjoy a reading challenge.

I’d like to start by thanking the people who support the project via , help me with testing, promote the game here in F95 by mentioning it here and there, help with coding, report bugs or just hang out in my Discord and reply to my rants as I work on the game. I love you guys.

I’ve been writing porn since 1997. I think my first stories were actually in English but only God knows where they (or the sites I published them on) are now. But I quickly moved to my native tongue and have been publishing in Hebrew ever since. My stories in Hebrew are all over the place with rape, incest, NTR, trans and a whole lot of vanilla because although other fetishes draw more attention, I fucking love vanilla.

The irony is that I’ve been searching for years for a platform that will allow me to write a porn game in Hebrew but when I finally decided I can do it with Ren’py I was like: “Nah, let’s do it in English”. The reason I went with English is that I wanted to have strong Fantasy elements and it would be weird and very limiting to do it in Hebrew. The vast majority of my Hebrew porn is contemporary.

For me the essense of Vae Victis - Khan is transforming power into sex. This is the emotional experience I aim to invoke in the players. The player sees a pretty Wench and he wants to sex her but he can’t because her army is too strong so he starts investing time and effort into making his army stronger. Once it is strong enough to overcome the opposing fiefdom (and its hot ruler) I hope to invoke in the players some thrill, a momentary excitement, a flash of “I have you now, bitch!”. A sense of power.

It might surprise you that the quests (or mini-quests as they were originally called, causing some people to skip them thinking they were minigames) were added relatively late, just before the release of 0.1. My original plan was to make the game more strategy based: a pure game where you manage your empire, conquer a fiefdom and get the Wench to do with her as you wish. But I just couldn’t get enough fluff into the strategy part and it took me about 2-3 minutes to get the army big enough for taking out the next fiefdom so it was like 2-3 minutes prep and then you get the Wench. Not much of a buildup. Then it just hit me: what do I do best? Write porn! Hence the quests as you know them were born.

I still think the original idea is a great idea: a good and fun strategy game where you work on your empire for 20-30 minutes before getting it ready to capture a fiefdom is a very hot concept in my opinion, but my coding skills were not up to the task. Maybe in the future.

While the essence of the game is transforming power into sex, I want to say a few words about what it’s not: It’s not about male supremacy or hatred of women. Neither the protagonist nor me are “out to put women in their natural place” or other such nonsense. I wanted to create a game where players can play a complete bastard, a self centered asshole who is strong enough to take whatever he wants.

Often when creators attempt to create a “villain feature”, they fall into one of two common traps (or tropes)
1. The villain only hurts bigger villains so it’s alright. You see in the Dexter series (didn't get to watch it), Venom movies (watched the first) etc.
2. She secretly likes it so it’s alright. Numerous porn titles.

I didn’t want any of these. I wanted to give the player the option to play a total bastard with absolutely no excuses other than “I can so I will”. I like Karder, but if you pay attention to the female cast they are often more impressive than he is: Domia who rose from a sex slave to a formidable warrior, Fahda who started from nothing to become a successful and powerful merchant, fierce little Yuki who will stop at nothing to free her daughter and more. They are often more inspiring than the protagonist who is relentless in achieving his goals but can come across as self centered, petty and even childish (yet, I love him).

Following that, the cult of Wakabia is not metaphor for feminism, it’s simply a story tool: by giving the Wakabian followers increased powers I make them more worthy opponents to Karder (and more satisfying to overcome) and since they are not supposed to have (male) sex, it makes their seduction/ravishment so much sweeter. It’s also an important part of the greater story, which I reveal between the versions.

From the beginning I wanted to create a physically strong male character. A character who can solve (some) problems simply by punching someone in the nose. It might seem counter intuitive, but writing a wimpy character is much easier than writing a powerful one because for a wimpy character everything is an obstacle and every girl can refuse him, hence problems (and solutions) are in abundance. Writing an interesting powerful character is more challenging in my opinion because I always have to balance between showing his power and not dulling the plot by allowing every problem to be solved by punching someone. In the beginning of the Tinpingia/Waioo quest, Karder meets with Gaal the elfkin in the pub, then some constables barge in. He kicks their asses but they manage to kidnap Gaal during the commotion so you do get a sense of power but not to the extent that none of the problems matter. Another example was punching Abustan the farmer in the face: go hunt your own boars, cunt.

People’s attention is naturally drawn to what’s flashy and controversial so I get it why people refer to Vae Victis - Khan as “that rapey game” but I enjoy writing the seduction parts as much as I do the more dominant ones, mainly because I get to explore the character of the ladies which tends to get a little obscured during a rape scene. Rape is never mandatory and there’s always a way to move the story forward without forcing Karder between some lady’s thighs (although I do see the appeal). I don’t include the Ravish/Seduction options for the sake of some obscure balance, I do it for the same reason I do everything else: for my own fun. As an author, I enjoy exploring more than one option.

I added Ravish/Seduction options not for the sake of balance, but I consider whether it makes sense story wise. In the Hawatia/Naniry quest I originally intended to allow Karder to ravish Yuki but then I thought about players who forget what her piece of the puzzle was and come back to ask her, which would have been a bit awkward story wise if Karder abused her earlier. In a similar note, I couldn't find a believable seduction angle to sex with combatants in the Red Arena, so it’s purely non consensual.

In a similar theme, other tags like gay or bestiality are there not because I’m trying to extend the players base players, but because I think they fit in their respective contexts. The elfkin are such a freaky little sex fiends that they will literally fuck anything, including their dogs. Same goes for the gay scenes. For me Karder is so hyper dominant that he will also fuck anyone attractive, male or female.

One of the challenges I’m trying to address is exploring the personality of the ruler Wenches. Ironically, they are the stars of the show but it’s the quest girls who get more face time before the sex starts. The players get to see too little of the Wenches currently, so taking them is somewhat less satisfying than I want it to be. One of the reasons I added them to the images of the Raids is that the players will remember they exist. I need to get them in the players face more, to get the players to care about them more.

And now for some questions from the audience:

1. Are you satisfied with the progress of the game so far?

This is a more complex question than it might appear. Unlike many first year developers, I’m not a complete rookie. I’ve been publishing porn since the late 90s and in my country I’m bigger than all my competitors combined in terms of followers, number of stories published etc. But switching to a different medium in a different language, I have to start almost from scratch: unknown, out of my element and with no fan base. While I knew success in porn games won’t come overnight, there’s still some unconscious taste of disappointment. It doesn’t help that I shackle myself in very creative ways: Subscribestar account only and a game with strong strategy elements which, quite frankly, doesn’t look like any other game that I know.

Having said all that, I am happy. I have some very loyal fans who help me develop and promote the game and also help other fans enjoy it, my ratings are surprisingly high compared to such an offbeat title and most important is that I’m in a creative paradise and I get to fulfil all my fantasies and share it with like minded perverts and fans.

2. How long do you estimate it will take to finish the whole game development?

I honestly don’t know. I have several ideas, ranging from making this some sort of a series (Vae Victis - Khan, Vae Victis - Sea of Knives and Vae Victis - Dominance or something) to making it one full game. Don’t be fooled by the number of fiefdoms on the map, it would take me one hour to generate a new map with the existing fiefdom names and make it smaller or larger. The reason I don’t feel any urge for a deadline is that I’m not cock-teasing my players. I throw tons of pussy on the MC on every version and if there’s one specific cunt you’re after and you’re not getting, well… you’ll have to wait. I want it as much as you do, by the way.

3. You were or maybe still are an erotic novel writer. I think a novel, regardless of which genre it is, is still heavily focused on the story, because there are no images or sounds. But now that you are making a Visual Novel, which I'd say is more focused on the images, do you think it's closer to porn? Like, porn stories are usually comedic and complementary to the sex scenes :p

I never use the term erotica to describe my work, I called it porn from day one. Mostly to deny people the claim: “This is not erotica, this is porn!”. So yes, I write porn. As for the difference in mediums: I just love creating fantasy sex. Naturally, writing comes more easily to me but I enjoy learning new methods of creating and sharing my fantasies and I think my game benefits from my background as a writer.

4. What is the plan for the pregnancy content post-impregnation? Will there be any sort of lineage/dynasty foundation?

Currently no. I’m trying to reduce the “things I need to keep track of” as in my opinion it adds much more complexity than the fun it gives back. I may add some breeding counter someplace, though.

5. Will we see Incest with some sort of rapid-aging magic? Or will all the little bastards just be shipped off to an orphanage to go be a protagonist destined to claim their rightful place as the heir?

I never wrote a father-daughter scene but I do enjoy such scenes in The Guardian and Peasant Quest so it’s tempting to try. Just how fast do those elfkin mature anyway?

Now about the future.

Very slowly and gradually, I want to introduce more strategy/fiefdom management elements. Not full blown Sid Meier’s Civilization but I do believe the strategy elements complement the theme of the game so I want to explore them some more.

  1. Improved army on army combat. I have a prototype that I want to polish, but it has a board and the ability to move some units across it and kill each other. Adding such a very simple combat module can help in introducing features like alternative generals (like Domia) each providing different bonuses, having new buildings (archers range, knights fortress etc) and more. VN mode is staying, so if you really don’t like any of this stuff, just ignore it.
  2. Additional fiefdom management tools. Things like Public Executions (drops morale but boosts Obedience), Bribe the Elite (pay Gold to gain Obedience) and more. Yet I intend to use existing mechanisms (Morale/Obedience/Gold/Troops etc) without introducing new ones because I don’t want to overcomplicate the game.
  3. Terror. I’m toying with the idea that Wenches will have a Courage statistics and Karder will have a Terror statistic. Terror will increase by doing nasty things like Force Yield, putting Wenches in the Dungeon and more. Once Karder’s Terror exceeds a ruling Wenche’s courage, she surrenders her kingdom and you’ll have a nice surrendering/submission scene.
  4. Using existing mechanisms I want to give the players more than one way to run the Khaganate, maybe high Obedience fiefdoms will be more stable but carry Morale penalties (thus hurting yield) while a high Morale fiefdom will be more of a headache to run (lower Obedience cap?) but carry better yield.

In the General forum you’ll often see aspiring developers asking “what type of game do I need to make in order for it to be popular?” or “What type of games make the most money?”. I don’t brother with these questions, I just want to create a game I’ll enjoy playing and hopefully others too. In my opinion, it’s the only way to create anything meaningful. Thanks for reading, thanks for playing and thanks for !

Karder, you stupid bastard, you can't get them more pregnant than they already are!
View attachment 1659642
looks like real-life kept me busy enuff that by the time i got back to this...
WE FINALLY HAVE PREGGO SEX!!!!!!!! HELL YES!!!!!!!!!! (now...about the rape, incest, n bestiality...:unsure::cool:;):love::whistle:)

n reading the last several pages of comments...IT'S JUST A GAME PEOPLE!! IT'S NOT REAL LIFE...CHILL THE "F" OUT!! (can't we all just jack off, cum, smoke a fatty, eat some oreos, n be happy??!!) o_O:giggle::eek::rolleyes::sneaky:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mrttao

Forum Fanatic
Jun 11, 2021
4,521
7,341
WE FINALLY HAVE PREGGO SEX!!!!!!!! HELL YES!!!!!!!!!! (now...about the rape, incest, n bestiality...:unsure::cool:;):love::whistle:)
I don't think there are any plans to ever have incest or bestiality in this game
preggo sex was always planned
enhanced consent has always been in the game
 

madnomad69

Newbie
Jan 15, 2020
49
18
looks like real-life kept me busy enuff that by the time i got back to this...
WE FINALLY HAVE PREGGO SEX!!!!!!!! HELL YES!!!!!!!!!! (now...about the rape, incest, n bestiality...:unsure::cool:;):love::whistle:)

n reading the last several pages of comments...IT'S JUST A GAME PEOPLE!! IT'S NOT REAL LIFE...CHILL THE "F" OUT!! (can't we all just jack off, cum, smoke a fatty, eat some oreos, n be happy??!!) o_O:giggle::eek::rolleyes::sneaky:

Can I have nutter butters instead of oreo's please lmao
 

Stil996

Conversation Conqueror
Jan 11, 2018
6,355
5,778
I'm not going to wiggle my way to some morally flawed excuse on how this makes sense, I simply think the post-combat-ravishments are very in theme of the game and I want people to enjoy them without suffering consequences later on. Like infinite ammo, health potions and limitless carrying ability, it's a clear case of Gameplay Vs. Realism where I knowingly chose to bend my own rules in favor of more streamlined gameplay. I thought a lot about this exact dilemma before implementing the feature in 0.2.

In the future I might amend this either by allowing players to toggle it off (there's a big toggle-features screen coming in 0.5) or by offering "moment of passion" post combat consensual sex as an alternative to ravishment. Hmmm...



I don't think there's a distinction here so I'll go with "my view changed".
The recovery after rape is reasonable, this isn't a woke environment, this is a time when you gain power by mass murder and hacking pieces off people, "Might is Right" and "Rape and Pillage" are well known phrases for a reason. Conquers raping the female scions of a ruling family lend legitimacy to their rule by ensuring that their heirs have the correct bloodlines. Female rulers need to be pragmatists, idealists tend to have very short lives.

What annoys me is that after playing the game in full Dom mode you need to suddenly seduce them, seriously what the fuck, whats wrong with chaining them to your bed until they understand their options are either serve you as an advisor or serve you as an onahole (make them beg for the chance to serve as a loyal minion), sure recruiting them in this way would mean reduced benefits compared to them joining because they trust/believe in you and will likely take longer (depending how strong willed they are and how much faith they have in being rescued) and there will be the ever present risk that they will try to stab you in the back until they come to the conclusion that you are the best option for Emperor (in game terms it shouldn't take much of a change from the seduction demands with maybe a penalty to account for the distaste they have for the way they have been treated)

Please allow the MC to be the dominating, take what he wants type of ruler he was always destined to be.
 

Stil996

Conversation Conqueror
Jan 11, 2018
6,355
5,778
Did you forget about the queen, the mother that the MC hates and wants that showed up in the beginning? Also sisters. Also there already is bestiality.
Is the queen related? I thought she was the evil step-mother, and her daughters are they sisters to the MC or step sisters (or the product of all the affairs the queen probably had)
 

Akeymu

Member
Jan 22, 2020
473
437
Is the queen related? I thought she was the evil step-mother, and her daughters are they sisters to the MC or step sisters (or the product of all the affairs the queen probably had)
Yes incest is planned, the mother and sister are blood relatives, and he plans to take over thier kingdoms and ravish and breed all the female feifdoms that his mother and thier religious cult control now. At some point you will attack and pillage sisters and mothers kingdoms with options to rape breed and Imprison
 

Doorknob22

Super Moderator
Moderator
Game Developer
Nov 3, 2017
2,153
5,205
What annoys me is that after playing the game in full Dom mode you need to suddenly seduce them, seriously what the fuck, whats wrong with chaining them to your bed until they understand their options are either serve you as an advisor or serve you as an onahole (make them beg for the chance to serve as a loyal minion), sure recruiting them in this way would mean reduced benefits compared to them joining because they trust/believe in you and will likely take longer (depending how strong willed they are and how much faith they have in being rescued) and there will be the ever present risk that they will try to stab you in the back until they come to the conclusion that you are the best option for Emperor (in game terms it shouldn't take much of a change from the seduction demands with maybe a penalty to account for the distaste they have for the way they have been treated)

Please allow the MC to be the dominating, take what he wants type of ruler he was always destined to be.
I think the current logic works. If you brutalize and terrorize people they are probably not going to be able to be useful as thinkers, only as breeding stock/fuck puppets.

Is the queen related? I thought she was the evil step-mother, and her daughters are they sisters to the MC or step sisters (or the product of all the affairs the queen probably had)
Not evil step-mother: mother-mother.
 
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Feb 12, 2021
434
524
I don't think there are any plans to ever have incest or bestiality in this game
preggo sex was always planned
enhanced consent has always been in the game
already had besty once, n check the tags at the top of the page bro...gotta have faith! :WeSmart:

Yes incest is planned, the mother and sister are blood relatives, and he plans to take over thier kingdoms and ravish and breed all the female feifdoms that his mother and thier religious cult control now. At some point you will attack and pillage sisters and mothers kingdoms with options to rape breed and Imprison
REALLY!!! so when is this happening?? (y):WaitWhat:
 

Stil996

Conversation Conqueror
Jan 11, 2018
6,355
5,778
I think the current logic works. If you brutalize and terrorize people they are probably not going to be able to be useful as thinkers, only as breeding stock/fuck puppets.
OK it seems your Dom vision is darker than mine, I visualized the MC as an fully entitled royal who sees everyone around him as either property or a rival, I read him as selfish with minimal empathy, but not as a full blown sadist.
This brutalize/terrorize you mention doesn't seem to fit with how I've read this character, I hate that the only options after capturing these women is to either lock them into BDSM devices in the dungeon or jump through hoops to seduce them, feels like there should be a third option where you force them to bend knee to you, either by breaking them with sex, extortion (the priestess I think for example would be far more willing to serve you if she thought her followers would suffer if she didn't comply), or simply demonstrate that as the strongest character around it would be more profitable to throw their lots in with yours and as I said in my previous post, serving as an advisor is bound to be more palatable when compared to serving as an onahole.

Just my two cents.

Step what now?! Please don't insult me, do you see a Patreon link in my sig?! ;)
I wasn't accusing you of the Step bullshit people have been doing to avoid Incest bans, I think maybe it was the fairytale style of story that made me think of the classic meme of the second wife being the gold digger who kills dad to steal his fortune and disinherits the rightful heir in favour of her own offspring from a previous marrage.
 
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Evangelion-01

Devoted Member
Apr 12, 2018
10,354
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OK it seems your Dom vision is darker than mine, I visualized the MC as an fully entitled royal who sees everyone around him as either property or a rival, I read him as selfish with minimal empathy, but not as a full blown sadist.
This brutalize/terrorize you mention doesn't seem to fit with how I've read this character, I hate that the only options after capturing these women is to either lock them into BDSM devices in the dungeon or jump through hoops to seduce them, feels like there should be a third option where you force them to bend knee to you, either by breaking them with sex, extortion (the priestess I think for example would be far more willing to serve you if she thought her followers would suffer if she didn't comply), or simply demonstrate that as the strongest character around it would be more profitable to throw their lots in with yours and as I said in my previous post, serving as an advisor is bound to be more palatable when compared to serving as an onahole.

Just my two cents.


I wasn't accusing you of the Step bullshit people have been doing to avoid Incest bans, I think maybe it was the fairytale style of story that made me think of the classic meme of the second wife being the gold digger who kills dad to steal his fortune and disinherits the rightful heir in favour of her own offspring from a previous marrage.
Tyrants may rule but they won't last...
 

BiggestDickest

Active Member
Game Developer
Apr 14, 2021
726
1,430
I think the current logic works. If you brutalize and terrorize people they are probably not going to be able to be useful as thinkers, only as breeding stock/fuck puppets.
As much as the seduction benefits are irrelevant to me, they make it seem like the game encourages you to go the seduction path. While a mind-broken person wouldn't think well, the others might because they wouldn't want to suffer the same fate. It's the strategy Mongols employed when they spread the tales of their brutality, so that other cities or states would be more likely to surrender without a fight, and the conquered ones would think twice before rebelling. It is arguable that the domination route should also give benefits, since the Stil996 felt compelled to pick the seduction route.

I'd also argue that a ruler could be brutalised into serving normally. The Mongols did leave behind vassals that ruled normally. They also appointed Persian or Chinese governors. But well, that's none of my business. I am only interested in the domination route, and I don't ever want to see the wenches submit or break. That's the end of a domination story. Make them resist.
 

Doorknob22

Super Moderator
Moderator
Game Developer
Nov 3, 2017
2,153
5,205
As much as the seduction benefits are irrelevant to me, they make it seem like the game encourages you to go the seduction path. While a mind-broken person wouldn't think well, the others might because they wouldn't want to suffer the same fate. It's the strategy Mongols employed when they spread the tales of their brutality, so that other cities or states would be more likely to surrender without a fight, and the conquered ones would think twice before rebelling. It is arguable that the domination route should also give benefits, since the Stil996 felt compelled to pick the seduction route.

I'd also argue that a ruler could be brutalised into serving normally. The Mongols did leave behind vassals that ruled normally. They also appointed Persian or Chinese governors. But well, that's none of my business. I am only interested in the domination route, and I don't ever want to see the wenches submit or break. That's the end of a domination story. Make them resist.
As I wrote in The Great Wall of Doorknob (text), I am considering adding another play style. Something along the lines of brutal dictator (High Obedience cap/Low Morale cap(= yield)) Vs. benevolent ruler (Low Obedience cap/High Morale cap) because I'm little unhappy that there's currently only one way to play the strategic game.

If I go on that road, perhaps a Wench in the dungeon will contribute to Obedience but reduce the Morale cap. The factors will be localized per fiefdom, with maybe an additional bonus if all the Wenches are either in the Dungeon or in the Palace.

(For anyone who cares: I'm currently working on Maya's act 1).
 
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mrttao

Forum Fanatic
Jun 11, 2021
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Did you forget about the queen, the mother that the MC hates and wants that showed up in the beginning? Also sisters. Also there already is bestiality.
I totally forgot about the mom, yes. And sister.
Thanks for reminding.

When was there bestiality already?
 
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