Sure, we can do that (slaver baseline health increase). As for the slaver losing spars, I haven't noticed it myself (honestly, haven't tested it recently either), which is why I'm asking.
- May 27, 2021
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qwertyu12359
I'm not quite sure if the thing we're talking about is quite specifically the same. I was just bemoaning the different immutable base healths of the girl ages+Slaver that led to milfs always being superior. Slaver has less base health than a Milf by a not-insignificant margin so all else being equal he's always at a disadvantage. In terms of winning sparring battles, I needed A+ strength and combat + rushing strike (the second slashing special move) with a Flamberge and 800 spark armor + a specific strategy before I could relatively consistently beat Amazons.
ImperatorAugustusTertius pointed out, the Milfs have +10 base health over the Slaver and regular girls. Lolis are shafted even harder, though I think it's slightly less bad if they have the Gladiatrix trait (at least from my peek in the code.) For reference, a Milf with A+ strength will have 50 health, a Loli with A+ strength will have 27 (just under half.) This is, plainly speaking, rather irritating. Not necessarily because it makes Lolis (or non-milfs, rather) worse at combat, but for several other reasons. The major one of which is that at least to my observation, none of the people interested in combat-character slaves actually care if the slave is a loli, or if they do I sure didn't see it in their preferences line. Now, a natural line of reasoning we might follow from this is:
Lolis are bad at fighting but Gladiatrix-trait lolis aren't (as much), ergo Gladiatrix-trait lolis should be worth more due to being a more rare specimen. Were I to give the arena lady unique quests, one of them would probably be finding her a Gladiatrix-loli to be a crowd drawer. Perhaps lolis that win fights get 20% bigger prize pools or increase the master's fame more with victory because, again, they're not generally known as fighters and that makes one that's successful more appealing and attention drawing.
But, and I apologize if I have missed it, that isn't the case. They're just arbitrarily worse for the sake of an idea of realism which is also arbitrarily enforced, which is boring. Not a big deal, but a minor niggle, and one that also might bite you if you try to make a non-milf gladiatrix without realising it's going to automatically be a bit harder. (At least for fighting. Buyers don't care.)
Are there any other age-specific modifiers or effects or are milfs just the 'superior' type?
I'm not quite sure if the thing we're talking about is quite specifically the same. I was just bemoaning the different immutable base healths of the girl ages+Slaver that led to milfs always being superior. Slaver has less base health than a Milf by a not-insignificant margin so all else being equal he's always at a disadvantage. In terms of winning sparring battles, I needed A+ strength and combat + rushing strike (the second slashing special move) with a Flamberge and 800 spark armor + a specific strategy before I could relatively consistently beat Amazons.
ImperatorAugustusTertius pointed out, the Milfs have +10 base health over the Slaver and regular girls. Lolis are shafted even harder, though I think it's slightly less bad if they have the Gladiatrix trait (at least from my peek in the code.) For reference, a Milf with A+ strength will have 50 health, a Loli with A+ strength will have 27 (just under half.) This is, plainly speaking, rather irritating. Not necessarily because it makes Lolis (or non-milfs, rather) worse at combat, but for several other reasons. The major one of which is that at least to my observation, none of the people interested in combat-character slaves actually care if the slave is a loli, or if they do I sure didn't see it in their preferences line. Now, a natural line of reasoning we might follow from this is:
Lolis are bad at fighting but Gladiatrix-trait lolis aren't (as much), ergo Gladiatrix-trait lolis should be worth more due to being a more rare specimen. Were I to give the arena lady unique quests, one of them would probably be finding her a Gladiatrix-loli to be a crowd drawer. Perhaps lolis that win fights get 20% bigger prize pools or increase the master's fame more with victory because, again, they're not generally known as fighters and that makes one that's successful more appealing and attention drawing.
But, and I apologize if I have missed it, that isn't the case. They're just arbitrarily worse for the sake of an idea of realism which is also arbitrarily enforced, which is boring. Not a big deal, but a minor niggle, and one that also might bite you if you try to make a non-milf gladiatrix without realising it's going to automatically be a bit harder. (At least for fighting. Buyers don't care.)
Are there any other age-specific modifiers or effects or are milfs just the 'superior' type?
Lolis have a situational advantage in racing because they don't have to slow down for string traps.
I like this idea.
I wouldn't give them bigger prizes, but...
I like this idea too.
Gladiatrix trait in particular doesn't factor into slave price formula. I like the idea of it giving a bonus inversely proportional to the age of the slave.
Once the slave is obedient, you're right, the slave generally won't refuse orders unless you push her far out of her comfort zone. At that point it's more of a "soft" challenge - how quickly can you complete your training objectives? If she's doing what you say but getting D- grades, it'll take a lot more repetition to advance her skills than if she's getting S+ grades.
Making it harder to reach higher ratings but not impossible would simply turn into an even larger time investment.
So, are you're looking for some kind of ongoing "hard" challenge with an obedient slave, or are you looking for less time to be spent on training after achieving sufficient obedience to avoid refusals?
Another way you can add challenge is to multi-task. Once a slave is obedient enough, start another one. You can juggle multiple active slaves (if eligible) between the assistant, farmhand, cow and egglayer slots; all of these have their energy refreshed each night.
There are also some subtle effects in play, for example slaves feel less merit as they become more devoted, which can make it harder to keep their mood up as you have less opportunity to reward them, and they may even feel guilty if they don't perform tasks perfectly. This gives opportunities for the occasional punishment, for variety.
We don't have non-human slaves because no one wants to review every in-game text to see if it needs a variant to account for unique slave physiology. I wouldn't be opposed to it in concept, but it's not a simple thing to add seamlessly.
Another way we could add more variety would be to increase the frequency of slaves being generated with negative traits. Not sure how popular that would be...
All good ideas, but I don't have any specific inspiration at the moment. If you or someone else can write some good dialogue or random scenes, I'm willing to do the coding to make them appear. Spontaneous behavior can be interesting, but we have to be careful. If it seems out of context, that can be worse than not having it. And random, repetitive dialogues quickly become another form of meaningless spam, so whatever happens should ideally be part of an ongoing narrative, a story... which someone needs to think up first.
I've also thought about trying to model some kind of procedural behaviors. For example, "self-motivated behavior" for slaves - they could pick some goals and some strategies and then pursue them. But, I haven't figured out what the specific goals and strategies would be. It's hard for a slave to deceive the slaver when he can see her aura, after all, so pretending to cooperate in hope of gaining advantage would be seen through immediately.
More missions or quests would be good. Some kind of antagonist (rival guild member?) might be interesting. Deadlines, unexpected obstacles to training (slave suffered an accident, is now mute!), politics and intrigue (in guild, between factions), plots and spying, all sorts of things we could do...
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Not quite, the specific problem I'm not sure is even really possible to address within the framework of the game that actually exists. I was just commenting on the fact that high-tier slaves don't really feel that 'special', if that makes any sense? Combined with slave girls being pure human things can end up being a bit 'generic'. I like the way what they're willing to do is influenced by their stats though, like proud/willful ones being up for gladiatrix training when they might not want to do anything else. Perhaps it's less about making it 'harder without being impossible' is more a specifically-targeted 'make it harder if the slave's not high quality in the first place.'
Ultimately the only thing that gates really high-ranked slaves is Beauty, even if they're otherwise relatively low quality it's not that hard to pump them up because it only checks skills, which are simple to deal with as soon as they're above F-Grade. The two I've gotten to B+ rank aside from Isabelle (and could have taken to at least A+, probably even S+ if I invested in the beauty surgery or made them famous) were both bought for two digits and were pretty easy to work with as well. Not really sure what could be done though, aside from a more extensive trait system or attribute requirements other than than purely beauty. (A+ slaves might need A+ intelligence and temperament or some such.)
I wouldn't really say it's something to focus too heavily on at the moment but at least have it in mind. It's kind of like there's a big wall between F- and D-, and after that there's not much. Too hard to get a slave to a low grade but too easy to a high one? Still, as said, addressing this properly would probably be more than a few simple tweaks so not worth looking at in earnest quite yet. Some people might even prefer it that way.
Don't really have Taurs in mind. Just something like elf, animal-ear, or demonette girls could add a lot of variety to the sprites. Well even among the humans them all uniformly being naked leads to a kind of bland homogenity since there's no unique outfits around but I do understand that's probably for consistency. Still, I think any change in this vein is probably best saved for after a multi-slave/assistant system anyway where you might be able to keep ones you're specifically attached to around in the first place.
Might give that a shot at some point. (Though I also might not, don't count on it ;P.)
Currently, you can take any raw material and turn it into something precious (with enough time and effort).
We could change that model by making it impossible (or impractically expensive) for slaves to raise attributes by more than, say, a single tier.
Or we could put more emphasis on specialization - if you try to train a jack of all trades, you end up with a master of none, dependent on their attributes.
Either or both of these changes would make high-tier slaves rarer.
Ratings already require a certain average level of attributes. We could raise the thresholds higher.
After D-, it's an optimization game - if you play "optimally" then you can train her faster. The issue is, there's not a lot of time pressure, because once you get past the first few slaves, you're not at risk of running out of sparks. When you have all the time in the world, it doesn't affect much if you train her fast or slow. When players complain about the number of lessons to rank up a skill, it's often because the slave has low motivation and is learning slowly.
If it doesn't require any consideration in how the game treats that slave compared to others, it's as simple as adding some extra json files and image files to the content folder. If it requires calling up separate text or image sets (for example, "elf" images), that's a lot of work to make sure every image set and text has at least one appropriate variant.
Suggestion regarding Dialogue condition:
If slave has +5 horny and asks to be fucked, the dialogue with "resentment in her eyes" in response to being fucked is incompatible regardless of obedience.
If slave has +5 horny and asks to be fucked, the dialogue with "resentment in her eyes" in response to being fucked is incompatible regardless of obedience.
Would anyone mind sharing their strat for defeating the maneater in the arena? She only does green damage and my slave only has 70 green health max.
Look at the roadmap on the first post of the thread. The "dev" version currently includes everything that is marked completed (
) on the 2.2.1 roadmap. Assuming you want the latest bug fixes and improvements, that's the best version to use.Man, I haven't played this since like.. 1.7.5 I think? At least 2016 or so I think, and not very seriously since even before that.
I can't even beat a small fog fiend or get a girl to accept secretary or maid training without going all oraoraora on her and then things seeming okay for awhile until her temperament and nature just lead to mindbreak. I feel like my routine is the same as it used to be and I never had this much trouble starting off.
Did the normal game just get harder with all this work since then or am I rusty as fuck? It's kind of incredible.
It might sound like I'm bitching but I'm glad to see all the work everyone has put in over the years, so thanks guys. I'm more curious and just having a "wow I got my ass kicked I want to tell someone" moment.
Anyway, when you spar with slaves as the colosseum, does the text afterword along the lines of saying you can't improve from this mean I have to move up in terms of opponents to build more strength or endurance or is it closer to "You didn't get enough exp this time but will if you keep beating on them"?
I can't even beat a small fog fiend or get a girl to accept secretary or maid training without going all oraoraora on her and then things seeming okay for awhile until her temperament and nature just lead to mindbreak. I feel like my routine is the same as it used to be and I never had this much trouble starting off.
Did the normal game just get harder with all this work since then or am I rusty as fuck? It's kind of incredible.
It might sound like I'm bitching but I'm glad to see all the work everyone has put in over the years, so thanks guys. I'm more curious and just having a "wow I got my ass kicked I want to tell someone" moment.
Anyway, when you spar with slaves as the colosseum, does the text afterword along the lines of saying you can't improve from this mean I have to move up in terms of opponents to build more strength or endurance or is it closer to "You didn't get enough exp this time but will if you keep beating on them"?
Some feel it's easier, but most feel it is harder. Try prioritizing keeping mood at calm or better.
The former. You need worthy opponents.
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Fighting was already terrible in 1.7.5. I remember trying a new game with a maxed out character, buying weapons and armors, and still failing my first fights.
Or the opposite, doing a full game starting from D- in every stat, and then being invicible just because I've spent 1000 in-game days and not by virtue of my strength stats (with same weapons and armor).
In 2.2, if anything, fights should be easier than before. Because we've balanced weapons (and edited out typos in the code) which should make most weapons (especially the small ones) hit as originally intended (based on cost and description.
Then the rest is mostly about sparing the strong opponents a lot in the colloseum, and eating well.
In 2.2, as opposed to 1.7.5, the obedience threshold for a lesson depends on the girl's affinity for each. For exemple, in 1.7.5 you could spam fitness training as much as you wanted from the get go, which was the first step to building obedience. Now, you'll have more trouble getting a fatass do 2 hours of cardio than making her do something which necessitates only to use her brain (unless she's dumb, in which case she'll prefer other tasks). All stats are concerned, for exemple a low temperament slave will hate being asked to use weapons (even in training) while some smart amazons might take the training with the aim to become better at combat until they can beat/kill you.
Which is exactly the problem. The game changed. No more 1.7.5 routine allowed
Thanks
After a couple more slaves the mood juggling started making more sense now. I think I was also having difficulty because in addition to my old habits of playing I also got saddled with two Guilty slaves in a row and one of them also being a masochist which I had a lot of trouble with. I'd have mostly positive comments about their treatment and conditions but I'd need Encourage to get them to a baseline of Calm most of the time.
I think I'm finding my way through it better.
One trap I think I was falling into was starting training too fast. In the last versions I played you could start almost right away while doing the 3 day Explain Her Situation stuff but now it actually seems better to just take those first 3 days extremely slow as you finish those conversations. And I think my old habit of holding onto the Sundress until the slave started seeming broken in is less ideal now, it seems better to get her covered up with it right away just for that mood boost.
And, thanks for the note about the fight training. Since they kicked my ass I assumed I had to fight lower tiers and that winning was more important than enemy strength. I'll keep trying to throw my face against the tougher fights.
Yeah the combat in the game since the beginning has never been great.. Even when I started doing well at it in the past I feel like I didn't even fully understand why.Fighting was already terrible in 1.7.5. I remember trying a new game with a maxed out character, buying weapons and armors, and still failing my first fights.
Or the opposite, doing a full game starting from D- in every stat, and then being invicible just because I've spent 1000 in-game days and not by virtue of my strength stats (with same weapons and armor).
In 2.2, if anything, fights should be easier than before. Because we've balanced weapons (and edited out typos in the code) which should make most weapons (especially the small ones) hit as originally intended (based on cost and description.
Then the rest is mostly about sparing the strong opponents a lot in the colloseum, and eating well.
In 2.2, as opposed to 1.7.5, the obedience threshold for a lesson depends on the girl's affinity for each. For exemple, in 1.7.5 you could spam fitness training as much as you wanted from the get go, which was the first step to building obedience. Now, you'll have more trouble getting a fatass do 2 hours of cardio than making her do something which necessitates only to use her brain (unless she's dumb, in which case she'll prefer other tasks). All stats are concerned, for exemple a low temperament slave will hate being asked to use weapons (even in training) while some smart amazons might take the training with the aim to become better at combat until they can beat/kill you.
Which is exactly the problem. The game changed. No more 1.7.5 routine allowed
Thanks
Is the anime-sharing wiki still accurate? For the combat system as well as training and stats? I remember some more thorough guides but all the links in the wiki are dead and I imagine if they weren't they'd be obsolete now anyway but what about the regular page info?
That affinity thing is interesting. In your example will a slave with a corpulent physique start accepting athletics training more as she gets slimmer? Or is her refusal of physical activity just inherent in her character permanently and she's always going to have a negative modifier to liking or accepting it?
That information is definitely going to help choosing initial training tasks if it means she'll mostly only accept specific things and let me start rewarding her listening to the slaver.
Wasn't expecting to feel like I'm learning a new game but it certainly makes it interesting again.
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It's more about her physical condition than her weight. If she's feeble or weakened or dying, having an order to do cardio will require more obedience. And yes, if she goes from feeble to very much endurent, she'll more easily accept sport training.
Same for everything else, it continually adapts to your slave stats (which evolve)
Skills and stats matter. The effectiveness of your actions (like Encourage or Explain her position) depends on the slaver's skills and stats and the slave's. You'll notice that the text describing the outcome of the action varies. If it says something along the lines of her not being impressed or not taking you seriously, then it wasn't very effective. Contrary to what some older guides suggest, it's not always best to use them right away.
The mood boost of the sun dress comes partially from the dress being comfortable and partially from the fact that she is no longer naked. You can get the "not naked" benefit by putting other clothing on her (such as a uniform). You can get the comfortable effect from other clothing, too. Slippers, for example. So, although putting a sun dress on her right away is usually not a bad choice, it's not necessarily the best choice.
The wiki is outdated but the section on combat isn't bad for explaining the concepts. Most of the confusion comes from two things:
1. The colors of attacks are unrelated to the colors of the damage meters (when an attack hits, the weapon type determines if it does health damage, stamina damage, morale damage, or a combination of those - it doesn't matter if the attack color is red, green or purple; the importance of the attack colors is how they interact with multiplicative effects - if you have a stack of "half damage from green" then a green attack against you hurts less)
2. Players sometimes overlook the fact that they can change their defense type (arrow under portrait); you always take double damage from the color that matches your current defense type, so if your opponent is using strong attacks of that color, you're usually better off switching to a different one ... unless you have a stack of defensive multipliers for that color, or your opponent has a stack of offensive penalties for that color
Additionally:
3. Alchemy can make an otherwise impossible fight easy, or at least winnable - learn what the elixirs do in combat, and work that into your strategy
4. Same for special techniques learned from the arena, which give you guaranteed effects and damage multipliers - make sure you use a weapon that works with the techniques you learn
5. Artifacts from completing the central forum tasks increase how much damage you can survive in combat
6. Armor reduces incoming damage, which also improves your survivability, but note that some armor gives you a penalty at the beginning of combat
7. Most weapons have damage that increases based on the slaver's strength, but some are based on other things (like whip skill), or have fixed damage, so sometimes a more expensive weapon isn't the best choice ... but for a slaver with maxed skills, the more expensive weapons are always better than the less expensive ones
8. Morale regenerates in combat based on damage done to opponent, so if you're fighting something that is able to do a lot of damage to you, they will be gaining morale quickly, which makes a weapon like a whip that doesn't damage health less than optimal. Not the best choice for fighting a werewolf, for example... but a whip can be great for subduing a rebellious slave without damaging her
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It's been quite a long time since I last played the game and I love how development is still ongoing as it was one of my favorite games back then!
However I'm having a lot of trouble to get started. (I always liked the vanilla Nerd start because the beginning of the game was always the most challenging)
Back then, I used to just stay in the slums and grind fighting skill and strength in arena until blue (or higher) then get an easy servant contract and go from there but this really doesnt work anymore (for me at least) - I even skipped Isabella back then for an extra bit of added difficulty.
With the new gameplay changes, I cant even get above purple stamina/fighting skill with the same start (tried getting food from the tavern and visiting the brothels mixed together with coliseum but I'm not even sure if that worked properly).
If I get a contract that is seemingly doable - I judge that by wether my aura is overpowering theirs with green text after using Magna Magnifica and an easy enough contract such as servant - I am having tons of trouble to get my slave to do literally anything.
Only masturbation and orgasm orders work in the beginning, any other order will start the day with 1 guilty - even if she refuses everything else she wont get more guilty points, making harder punishments very punishing (for the PC) while the 1 point punishments really dont add any noticeable results.
In the end I usually get thrown into a loop where after a few harder punishments she will just despair making mood recovery impossible thus mind breaking the slave or she rebels and ends up with low stamina for what feels like forever.
Any tips to get started again, like what works better compared to a while before in terms of punishment/how to handle a slave the first week or so?
I am playing the hardcore difficulty in settings too, but I am considering turning it to normal for now until I get the hang of it again.
However I'm having a lot of trouble to get started. (I always liked the vanilla Nerd start because the beginning of the game was always the most challenging)
Back then, I used to just stay in the slums and grind fighting skill and strength in arena until blue (or higher) then get an easy servant contract and go from there but this really doesnt work anymore (for me at least) - I even skipped Isabella back then for an extra bit of added difficulty.
With the new gameplay changes, I cant even get above purple stamina/fighting skill with the same start (tried getting food from the tavern and visiting the brothels mixed together with coliseum but I'm not even sure if that worked properly).
If I get a contract that is seemingly doable - I judge that by wether my aura is overpowering theirs with green text after using Magna Magnifica and an easy enough contract such as servant - I am having tons of trouble to get my slave to do literally anything.
Only masturbation and orgasm orders work in the beginning, any other order will start the day with 1 guilty - even if she refuses everything else she wont get more guilty points, making harder punishments very punishing (for the PC) while the 1 point punishments really dont add any noticeable results.
In the end I usually get thrown into a loop where after a few harder punishments she will just despair making mood recovery impossible thus mind breaking the slave or she rebels and ends up with low stamina for what feels like forever.
Any tips to get started again, like what works better compared to a while before in terms of punishment/how to handle a slave the first week or so?
I am playing the hardcore difficulty in settings too, but I am considering turning it to normal for now until I get the hang of it again.