3D Software Help and Assistance. Ask Away.

[tretch95]

Use this, it works in a couple clicks

You must be registered to see the links

Thanks, but... this function was already added to DAZ itself?

The script seems to work ~100% identical to the core auto-fit for G9-G8, including the described issue with the buzzcut not loading back into a functional state after re-loading a saved scene with a character wearing it.



After closer inspection, it is actually worse than the built-in G9 auto-fit.



Left is the MMX Clone Script, right the built-in G9 autofit.
You can see that the scalp mesh clips an awful lot more with the MMX Clone.

 

[R1k0]

Thanks, but... this function was already added to DAZ itself?

The script seems to work ~100% identical to the core auto-fit for G9-G8, including the described issue with the buzzcut not loading back into a functional state after re-loading a saved scene with a character wearing it.



After closer inspection, it is actually worse than the built-in G9 auto-fit.

View attachment 4179408 View attachment 4179410

Left is the MMX Clone Script, right the built-in G9 autofit.
You can see that the scalp mesh clips an awful lot more with the MMX Clone.

I don't know what to say, I use this and some hairs work just perfectly, some installs but no color or shaping applied, some just look messed up, it's just an easier way than parenting hair to the head.

 

[faramata]

Guess why most games made with DAZ take place almost exclusively indoors. And if they ever show open outdoor scenes, they are 100% fake or look worse than videogames from the 2000s.

LOL, for me it's the opposite. I find it a lot harder to light indoor scenes. Plus most light sets that look good use HDRIs so they are useless for indoor shots since the walls block the HDRI, so the effects that make the skin look good (I tried one set from Sabby that made the skin look like alabaster, it was beautiful) don't work unless all the lights contribute their effect.

 

[faramata]

Found another really annoying issue with G9 hairs fitted to G8.


Example the

You must be registered to see the links

.
This works almost perfect via auto-fit on a G8M. It is a buzzcut so there really isn't any functionality to lose.
View attachment 4171010

However, after saving a scene with the hair and reloading it, the hair always loads faulty like this
View attachment 4171011
And none of the options from the asset seem to restore it (hair length, shave style, color etc)

Any ideas?

You could try scaling across the axes (what's the plural for axis?).

 

[tretch95]

I don't know what to say, I use this and some hairs work just perfectly, some installs but no color or shaping applied, some just look messed up, it's just an easier way than parenting hair to the head.

Custom bones, like for "wind" or move effects don't work with either script.
The fit quality of the MMX Clone is much worse than the built-in script.

We really needed a proper converter plugin, like the RSSY hair converters from G3 to G8 always worked for me.
This creates a proper port with its own meshes and morphs, custom bones usually work. And it doesn't have to re-fit itself each time you load a character.

You could try scaling across the axes (what's the plural for axis?).

This can't fix any shape mismatches though.

Example, no person has a head shape like the standard G8M. Michael8 is already different. My own custom characters all have variations like a longer or shorter cranium back, a thicker or thinner neck, a more steep or flat cranium top, and especially changes to the forehead and temples. All of the characters i downloaded have completely different head shapes.

I mean, that's why all the professional hairstyle products use auto-fit, and come with dozens of adjustment morphs. Not to mention a bunch of special character shapes, like Aiko8 or Victoria9.

 

[R1k0]

Custom bones, like for "wind" or move effects don't work with either script.
The fit quality of the MMX Clone is much worse than the built-in script.

I don't know what hair you need, but some of the ones I wanted work perfectly

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[tretch95]

I don't know what hair you need, but some of the ones I wanted work perfectly

Spoiler

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Yeah i know, some hairs seem to work absolutely flawless.

For example, FE Long Straight Hair also had its wind morphs working.

But most hairstyles i tested with braids, or long bangs like AK Little Double Braids Hair are entirely non-functional after using auto-fit. Adjustment morphs work, posing morphs don't.

Not an expert, but these seem to have custom bones / skeleton in their braids which is deleted in the auto-fit process.
In practical use, this means you can not only not use the wind morphs, but you also cannot pose braids. So at most they stick through the body, making everything look stiff and fake like in videogames from 10+ years ago before they added hair physics to every game.

Clothing converter scripts do however transfer these bones, in the ideal case.
For example, OOT's Rasta Tails Hair which only exists for G3F in the Sapphire Bundle.
If simply used via auto-fit on a G8F, the braids and tails are all completely dead. But with this Hair Converter, everything works identical to the original.

 

[tretch95]

BTW the funniest shit with auto-fit happens on those dForce-only G9 hairs.

Check this out (not my characters)


Reference:





Result with auto-fit:

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Seems to transfer differently on each character. For some reason, trying to apply different textures gives an error too.
The scalp is almost correct, but the dforce prop never works.

 

[pornlover1238]

Hi, I'm quite new in all this DAZ stuff but wanted to try and create some things. I have some problems with the following.

1.Create sex scenes:
I can't seem to figure out how to make characters interact with each other. I've found a few posing assets that are sexual positions and this works wel with girls but i can't really insert a penis into the vagina of a model? Any pointers as to what i should do? (I'm using dicktator and golden palace but am willing to switch if that makes my life easier.)

2. Facial expressions:
Just how? I can't seem to find how I can change the expression on my models face.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Hi, I'm quite new in all this DAZ stuff but wanted to try and create some things. I have some problems with the following.

1.Create sex scenes:
I can't seem to figure out how to make characters interact with each other. I've found a few posing assets that are sexual positions and this works wel with girls but i can't really insert a penis into the vagina of a model? Any pointers as to what i should do? (I'm using dicktator and golden palace but am willing to switch if that makes my life easier.)

2. Facial expressions:
Just how? I can't seem to find how I can change the expression on my models face.

Thanks in advance!

re 1: -what do you mean specifically by "cant really insert a penis"? Do you mean the sizing is wrong or what?

2: both g8f, g8.1, and g9 have stock included facial expression poses - they're under (select body) parameters---> pose controls --> head---> expressions.

 

[pornlover1238]

re 1: -what do you mean specifically by "cant really insert a penis"? Do you mean the sizing is wrong or what?

2: both g8f, g8.1, and g9 have stock included facial expression poses - they're under (select body) parameters---> pose controls --> head---> expressions.

I'll check that out thank you!

As for the other problem. Do I have to manually position it? Or is there a way to make it clip into place? Sorry should have made my question more clear.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I'll check that out thank you!

As for the other problem. Do I have to manually position it? Or is there a way to make it clip into place? Sorry should have made my question more clear.

np, you have to manually position it unless you have specific sex poses, but even then often manual adjustment is required.

As a rule of thumb, it's usually much easier to move the dick to vag than vice versa. With diktator, I'll favorite the morphs like "shaft side-side","shaft up-down","shaft bend curve 1", adjust those until it looks good. I use NGV8 so i dont know the GP morphs, but i assume they have similar "open".

 

[pornlover1238]

So I just need place everything into the correct position? And open the vagina with the settings to it looks real? I honestly thought there was some sort of "click it together like lego" method. But I'll try and see what I can do Thank you! One more question. I don't know how advanced this is but how do I make the skin move upon touch? For example assume a character is squeezing another characters breast. How do I make it look like the fingers of the model are really squeezing it? right now I can put them on top of a breast but it clips in once I move the fingers more into the skin. (which i normal i suppose.)

 

[tretch95]

Posing and especially the penetration is a shitload of work.

There are millions of "sex pose" assets, but they only work with the stock models they were created for (e.g. Genesis 8 or Michael / Victoria) which are both 6 foot or 180cm tall. Completely unrealistic. And the poses usually look robotic and unnatural.

If you're looking at professional video game and CGI production, these all use motion capturing for animations. But that isn't an option especially with sex where several actors need to directly interact in several spots and share the same motions.

So, pose manually. Try using photos as reference. Also don't be afraid to imitate poses yourself in front of a mirror to understand how joints can move and rest in position.




The most basic and more accurate way is to click on any "limb" or bone section of a character you want to pose.
1. click on the character to select
2. click on for example the thigh, this selects the upper leg bone on the character
Then you can manipulate these with the X Y Z rotations on the right side of the screen (same as when moving or rotating a whole object)

A much faster way is to select a section, the switch to the Translate or Rotate tools in the top bar.

Translating bones uses the IK technology from videogames. So if you move for example a hand, the rest of the body follows. At first it bends the elbow to stretch or contract the arm to match the new position, and rotates the forearm. Once the elbow angle is expended, it also bends shoulder, then the torso. And so on. Very useful if you know what you're doing.

And the rotation tool is very obvious.

Also there is the PowerPose interface where you get a different control method, like a paperdoll. But the above methods are easier to use in general.


Always best to start with some premade pose which looks similar to what you want to do.
There also is a script called

You must be registered to see the links

, which lets you lock down bone sections so you can mix different poses.

 

[pornlover1238]

Posing and especially the penetration is a shitload of work.

There are millions of "sex pose" assets, but they only work with the stock models they were created for (e.g. Genesis 8 or Michael / Victoria) which are both 6 foot or 180cm tall. Completely unrealistic. And the poses usually look robotic and unnatural.

If you're looking at professional video game and CGI production, these all use motion capturing for animations. But that isn't an option especially with sex where several actors need to directly interact in several spots and share the same motions.

So, pose manually. Try using photos as reference. Also don't be afraid to imitate poses yourself in front of a mirror to understand how joints can move and rest in position.




The most basic and more accurate way is to click on any "limb" or bone section of a character you want to pose.
1. click on the character to select
2. click on for example the thigh, this selects the upper leg bone on the character
Then you can manipulate these with the X Y Z rotations on the right side of the screen (same as when moving or rotating a whole object)

A much faster way is to select a section, the switch to the Translate or Rotate tools in the top bar.

Translating bones uses the IK technology from videogames. So if you move for example a hand, the rest of the body follows. At first it bends the elbow to stretch or contract the arm to match the new position, and rotates the forearm. Once the elbow angle is expended, it also bends shoulder, then the torso. And so on. Very useful if you know what you're doing.

And the rotation tool is very obvious.

Also there is the PowerPose interface where you get a different control method, like a paperdoll. But the above methods are easier to use in general.


Always best to start with some premade pose which looks similar to what you want to do.
There also is a script called

You must be registered to see the links

, which lets you lock down bone sections so you can mix different poses.

I'll try to figure that all out. It indeed seems alot more complicated than I first assumed. Doe people really mocap these things?

 

[tretch95]

I'll try to figure that all out. It indeed seems alot more complicated than I first assumed. Doe people really mocap these things?

For amateur porn games, probably not. Seems like you can do this with a smartphone now, though. Which could change things very soon.

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

For professional CGI, they have much much better tools for everything where motion capture doesn't suffice.

 

[tretch95]

BTW another relatively useful tool for posing is this

You must be registered to see the links

(Search that Shadowcore site, there also is an add-on for this, a G8M- and a G9 version)

- Why use this?

For example, you want to move a character's head horizontally forth and back, like a chicken when walking.
But the posing controls for the "Neck" only let you bend the whole neck, like looking up to the sky or down a cliff.



Even worse, everything above the shoulders has 3 bones - lower neck, upper neck, head. Manual posing is difficult, translation tool is too inaccurate.

The 3DU pose architect can do this with complex pose controls, which work on top of any other position.
Here you get a new head pose control which always moves the head vertically while letting the two neck bones follow.



Of course you could combine both, to look up while moving the head forward.

Some other pose controls let you look over the shoulder naturally, or have movement for bending, lifting arms, shifting weight, stuff like that. And unlike fixed "pose presets", this always works smoothly on top of actual poses, within rotation limits.


For example, this pose kind of works for a POV scene



But when you look at it from different angles, you can see that the bodyshape already goes beyond the limits of how the G8 model can be posed. Simply using the "Buttocks Out" pose control from the Pose Architect fixes the cracks in the abdomen, and makes the pose look much more aesthetical.



TBH this is amazing.


And this G8F character is within about 80-90% dimensions of the default shape. This gets a LOT more important with characters who are really thick or otherwise diverge from the ideal.

So this doesn't actually replace manual posing or customizing pose presets, but it can both fix problems and save you time and headaches.

Some other add-ons are essential for posing, like

You must be registered to see the links

to fix extreme errors when bending the lower body (leg&hip)

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

BTW another relatively useful tool for posing is this

You must be registered to see the links

(Search that Shadowcore site, there also is an add-on for this, a G8M- and a G9 version)

- Why use this?

For example, you want to move a character's head horizontally forth and back, like a chicken when walking.
But the posing controls for the "Neck" only let you bend the whole neck, like looking up to the sky or down a cliff.

View attachment 4197832

Even worse, everything above the shoulders has 3 bones - lower neck, upper neck, head. Manual posing is difficult, translation tool is too inaccurate.

The 3DU pose architect can do this with complex pose controls, which work on top of any other position.
Here you get a new head pose control which always moves the head vertically while letting the two neck bones follow.

View attachment 4197903

Of course you could combine both, to look up while moving the head forward.

Some other pose controls let you look over the shoulder naturally, or have movement for bending, lifting arms, shifting weight, stuff like that. And unlike fixed "pose presets", this always works smoothly on top of actual poses, within rotation limits.


For example, this pose kind of works for a POV scene

View attachment 4198027

But when you look at it from different angles, you can see that the bodyshape already goes beyond the limits of how the G8 model can be posed. Simply using the "Buttocks Out" pose control from the Pose Architect fixes the cracks in the abdomen, and makes the pose look much more aesthetical.

View attachment 4198095 View attachment 4198096 View attachment 4198098

TBH this is amazing.


And this G8F character is within about 80-90% dimensions of the default shape. This gets a LOT more important with characters who are really thick or otherwise diverge from the ideal.

So this doesn't actually replace manual posing or customizing pose presets, but it can both fix problems and save you time and headaches.

Some other add-ons are essential for posing, like

You must be registered to see the links

to fix extreme errors when bending the lower body (leg&hip)

whoa whoa whoa that sounds like a neat tool but there's NO way that pose requires limits off.

90% of the time - when someone thinks limits need to be off, it's really an issue of not moving the proper bones in the proper way - a lot of things happen in reality with your body you dont even think - like when you grab your chest with your hand, your shoulder rolls and moves forward. The one exception to this is thumbs in daz- indeed daz doesnt capture the real life range of motion properly.

Other thing I've found is - vast majority of the time 'abdomen cracks' are caused by improper hip rotation - people will be trying to put ALL the bending on the pelvis/lower-upper abdomen; which results in these extreme angles. You can soften that out by spreading the motion over more bones.

That's not to condemn your tool - appreciate suggestions; but this is just a pet peeve of mine this reminded me of (that you arent necessarily doing) but it's in SO MANY pose packs, people turning off limits because they didnt correctly move other joints.

I'll try to figure that all out. It indeed seems alot more complicated than I first assumed. Doe people really mocap these things?

In mass media, yes. But if you're talking more about a 3d games context - the thing I didnt see him mention is a proper physics framework. This can make stuff like that so much easier - when meshs react in realtime to mesh collisions.

 

[tretch95]

Other thing I've found is - vast majority of the time 'abdomen cracks' are caused by improper hip rotation

Not sure how familiar you are with meshes and animation in 3d game modeling?
DAZ works exactly the same.



So the animatable part of a 3d figure is actually just the "skeleton" with its "bones", which are infinitely small 3-dimensional coordinates. Their movement is restricted in relation to its origin (in Genesis it is the Hip bone) and their relation to each other.
Above image shows the DAZ representation of bones and their alignment in the skeleton.



The visible part of the figure is called the "mesh". These are also actually just coordinates, which are connected with their neighboring coordinates. The connections are forming an array of triangles, which compose the visible surface of the figure.



To animate or pose the figure, each of these coordinates needs to have something called "Weight Mapping". This "weight" determines how much a given coordinate should move along the bones of the skeleton.

Above animation shows the strength of various weight maps on the mesh ranging from blue to red; following the skeleton from its root node at the hip, over the abdomen to the left arm.





And this exactly is the problem. Weights are only painted to match the geometry of the base figure. And even that is not perfect on the Genesis figures.


Once the figure deviates from the base shape, the weight painting no longer matches what it was designed for. The mesh is outside of its intended location. That's why it may get into unexpected shapes.

Images above show comparison of two females in different stages of obesity with the default G8 Female, and close ups of the abdomen region showing increasing deformities.

And this is a mild example, with body mass morphs that work comparably smooth.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Not sure how familiar you are with meshes and animation in 3d game modeling?
DAZ works exactly the same.


View attachment 4199969
So the animatable part of a 3d figure is actually just the "skeleton" with its "bones", which are infinitely small 3-dimensional coordinates. Their movement is restricted in relation to its origin (in Genesis it is the Hip bone) and their relation to each other.
Above image shows the DAZ representation of bones and their alignment in the skeleton.


View attachment 4199971 View attachment 4199974
The visible part of the figure is called the "mesh". These are also actually just coordinates, which are connected with their neighboring coordinates. The connections are forming an array of triangles, which compose the visible surface of the figure.


View attachment 4199991
To animate or pose the figure, each of these coordinates needs to have something called "Weight Mapping". This "weight" determines how much a given coordinate should move along the bones of the skeleton.

Above animation shows the strength of various weight maps on the mesh ranging from blue to red; following the skeleton from its root node at the hip, over the abdomen to the left arm.





And this exactly is the problem. Weights are only painted to match the geometry of the base figure. And even that is not perfect on the Genesis figures.

View attachment 4200218 View attachment 4200222 View attachment 4200226 View attachment 4200227
Once the figure deviates from the base shape, the weight painting no longer matches what it was designed for. The mesh is outside of its intended location. That's why it may get into unexpected shapes.

Images above show comparison of two females in different stages of obesity with the default G8 Female, and close ups of the abdomen region showing increasing deformities.

And this is a mild example, with body mass morphs that work comparably smooth.

Yes, i know all about 3d modeling (well that's not true I'm still awful at UV packing ) Indeed any skinned model will have deformities near the ends of the normal range of motion. When I said "why", I didn't mean from a technical sense, but from a perspective of how to best avoid this behavior given its existence.