3D Software Help and Assistance. Ask Away.

[tretch95]

Other thing I've found is - vast majority of the time 'abdomen cracks' are caused by improper hip rotation

Not sure how familiar you are with meshes and animation in 3d game modeling?
DAZ works exactly the same.



So the animatable part of a 3d figure is actually just the "skeleton" with its "bones", which are infinitely small 3-dimensional coordinates. Their movement is restricted in relation to its origin (in Genesis it is the Hip bone) and their relation to each other.
Above image shows the DAZ representation of bones and their alignment in the skeleton.



The visible part of the figure is called the "mesh". These are also actually just coordinates, which are connected with their neighboring coordinates. The connections are forming an array of triangles, which compose the visible surface of the figure.



To animate or pose the figure, each of these coordinates needs to have something called "Weight Mapping". This "weight" determines how much a given coordinate should move along the bones of the skeleton.

Above animation shows the strength of various weight maps on the mesh ranging from blue to red; following the skeleton from its root node at the hip, over the abdomen to the left arm.





And this exactly is the problem. Weights are only painted to match the geometry of the base figure. And even that is not perfect on the Genesis figures.


Once the figure deviates from the base shape, the weight painting no longer matches what it was designed for. The mesh is outside of its intended location. That's why it may get into unexpected shapes.

Images above show comparison of two females in different stages of obesity with the default G8 Female, and close ups of the abdomen region showing increasing deformities.

And this is a mild example, with body mass morphs that work comparably smooth.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Not sure how familiar you are with meshes and animation in 3d game modeling?
DAZ works exactly the same.


View attachment 4199969
So the animatable part of a 3d figure is actually just the "skeleton" with its "bones", which are infinitely small 3-dimensional coordinates. Their movement is restricted in relation to its origin (in Genesis it is the Hip bone) and their relation to each other.
Above image shows the DAZ representation of bones and their alignment in the skeleton.


View attachment 4199971 View attachment 4199974
The visible part of the figure is called the "mesh". These are also actually just coordinates, which are connected with their neighboring coordinates. The connections are forming an array of triangles, which compose the visible surface of the figure.


View attachment 4199991
To animate or pose the figure, each of these coordinates needs to have something called "Weight Mapping". This "weight" determines how much a given coordinate should move along the bones of the skeleton.

Above animation shows the strength of various weight maps on the mesh ranging from blue to red; following the skeleton from its root node at the hip, over the abdomen to the left arm.





And this exactly is the problem. Weights are only painted to match the geometry of the base figure. And even that is not perfect on the Genesis figures.

View attachment 4200218 View attachment 4200222 View attachment 4200226 View attachment 4200227
Once the figure deviates from the base shape, the weight painting no longer matches what it was designed for. The mesh is outside of its intended location. That's why it may get into unexpected shapes.

Images above show comparison of two females in different stages of obesity with the default G8 Female, and close ups of the abdomen region showing increasing deformities.

And this is a mild example, with body mass morphs that work comparably smooth.

Yes, i know all about 3d modeling (well that's not true I'm still awful at UV packing ) Indeed any skinned model will have deformities near the ends of the normal range of motion. When I said "why", I didn't mean from a technical sense, but from a perspective of how to best avoid this behavior given its existence.

 

[hlfwaycrks]

Two quick questions I'm curious about:

Does anyone have a recommendation as to a good GPU for running Daz and potentially A1111 (AI art generation)? I was looking at a 4060ti 16GB -- and $500-$600 is the highest range of what I'm looking at in putting a build together -- but I feel like I'm going crazy trying to find a straight answer about this. Some threads say it's a good card, others suggest it's a shit card, who am I to know to believe in this day and age?! Any card that could fit in a 5L, 6L tops, PC case to have a smaller form-factor build would be a plus, but if I have to compromise to build something larger, that's okay too.

and

I don't know where to ask this. I saw KK/HS2/etc. being discussed earlier in this thread, though, so I was hoping I could get an answer here! Does anyone know if the engine they're currently working on, PassionEye, is going to be the same, in that you don't own what you make/can't sell projects on Steam? I've read stuff saying that some of the best devs that work on those engines are putting PassionEye together, and that it's going to be made with a focus for AVN creators to make their own stuff with an emphasis on modding, all this stuff talking about it being this premo engine in the works, but if it's still one in the same as KK/HS2/etc. in that regard, well... you can put gold plating on your toilet, but in the end, it's still a toilet, you know? I don't want to arbitrarily give myself such constraints, should I ever be good enough to have the opportunity to put something on Steam, so I wanted to ask to see if anyone's familiar -- I'd like to learn more about the engine, it does have a look that I like at least...

Thank you to any and all that can help me out!

 

[Boogie]

Two quick questions I'm curious about:

Does anyone have a recommendation as to a good GPU for running Daz and potentially A1111 (AI art generation)? I was looking at a 4060ti 16GB -- and $500-$600 is the highest range of what I'm looking at in putting a build together -- but I feel like I'm going crazy trying to find a straight answer about this. Some threads say it's a good card, others suggest it's a shit card, who am I to know to believe in this day and age?! Any card that could fit in a 5L, 6L tops, PC case to have a smaller form-factor build would be a plus, but if I have to compromise to build something larger, that's okay too.

and

I don't know where to ask this. I saw KK/HS2/etc. being discussed earlier in this thread, though, so I was hoping I could get an answer here! Does anyone know if the engine they're currently working on, PassionEye, is going to be the same, in that you don't own what you make/can't sell projects on Steam? I've read stuff saying that some of the best devs that work on those engines are putting PassionEye together, and that it's going to be made with a focus for AVN creators to make their own stuff with an emphasis on modding, all this stuff talking about it being this premo engine in the works, but if it's still one in the same as KK/HS2/etc. in that regard, well... you can put gold plating on your toilet, but in the end, it's still a toilet, you know? I don't want to arbitrarily give myself such constraints, should I ever be good enough to have the opportunity to put something on Steam, so I wanted to ask to see if anyone's familiar -- I'd like to learn more about the engine, it does have a look that I like at least...

Thank you to any and all that can help me out!

I'm not aware of what any development team is doing with the old Illusion Soft engine for future development, but as it currently stands now you do not own your creations with KK or HS and they can not be sold on Steam.

The 4060ti with 16GB is fine for running DAZ. Some people are still using older 10 series GTX cards, maybe not for serious work but DAZ is for hobby level of work anyway, not professional. The first thing to consider when reading reviews about GPUs is that they are almost all just game oriented reviews. Maybe the 4060 is a poor value for gaming but for DAZ, and really any type of graphic work, you want the largest amount of VRAM possible. The 16GB version is currently the best DAZ value option. Of course the higher end cards are better, but no one should be starting out with that kind of expense.

 

[hlfwaycrks]

I'm not aware of what any development team is doing with the old Illusion Soft engine for future development, but as it currently stands now you do not own your creations with KK or HS and they can not be sold on Steam.

The 4060ti with 16GB is fine for running DAZ. Some people are still using older 10 series GTX cards, maybe not for serious work but DAZ is for hobby level of work anyway, not professional. The first thing to consider when reading reviews about GPUs is that they are almost all just game oriented reviews. Maybe the 4060 is a poor value for gaming but for DAZ, and really any type of graphic work, you want the largest amount of VRAM possible. The 16GB version is currently the best DAZ value option. Of course the higher end cards are better, but no one should be starting out with that kind of expense.

Thanks! I'm going to line up with the 4060Ti then, or if I can swing it I'll go up to the 4070Ti, either way with 16GB. I appreciate your feedback very much. I'm excited to get set up and start learning the ropes by actually doing stuff!

 

[TREXrg]

Two quick questions I'm curious about:

Does anyone have a recommendation as to a good GPU for running Daz and potentially A1111 (AI art generation)? I was looking at a 4060ti 16GB -- and $500-$600 is the highest range of what I'm looking at in putting a build together -- but I feel like I'm going crazy trying to find a straight answer about this. Some threads say it's a good card, others suggest it's a shit card, who am I to know to believe in this day and age?! Any card that could fit in a 5L, 6L tops, PC case to have a smaller form-factor build would be a plus, but if I have to compromise to build something larger, that's okay too.

and

I don't know where to ask this. I saw KK/HS2/etc. being discussed earlier in this thread, though, so I was hoping I could get an answer here! Does anyone know if the engine they're currently working on, PassionEye, is going to be the same, in that you don't own what you make/can't sell projects on Steam? I've read stuff saying that some of the best devs that work on those engines are putting PassionEye together, and that it's going to be made with a focus for AVN creators to make their own stuff with an emphasis on modding, all this stuff talking about it being this premo engine in the works, but if it's still one in the same as KK/HS2/etc. in that regard, well... you can put gold plating on your toilet, but in the end, it's still a toilet, you know? I don't want to arbitrarily give myself such constraints, should I ever be good enough to have the opportunity to put something on Steam, so I wanted to ask to see if anyone's familiar -- I'd like to learn more about the engine, it does have a look that I like at least...

Thank you to any and all that can help me out!

Hi Maybe i intepret something inside but do you want to make figures in the toon style like KK/HS2 and stuff or not ,if you want they released toon bundles and shaders for the genesis figures

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Hi Maybe i intepret something inside but do you want to make figures in the toon style like KK/HS2 and stuff or not ,if you want they released toon bundles and shaders for the genesis figures

that's also a good point and something people dont take advantage of enough in daz- you can do a whole ton of varied styles.

 

[hlfwaycrks]

Hi Maybe i intepret something inside but do you want to make figures in the toon style like KK/HS2 and stuff or not ,if you want they released toon bundles and shaders for the genesis figures

that's also a good point and something people dont take advantage of enough in daz- you can do a whole ton of varied styles.

I wasn't even aware that Daz had the 3D anime style like in Koikatsu and PassionEye. I'll have to look into that! I think I'm more partial to the realism aspect that you see mainly with Daz, but I simultaneously do really like the styles of KK games, and the PassionEye engine style... so if I could have that style as an option open to me, that would be super dope. I'll check out what you mentioned and see if I can find some examples -- thanks!

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I wasn't even aware that Daz had the 3D anime style like in Koikatsu and PassionEye. I'll have to look into that! I think I'm more partial to the realism aspect that you see mainly with Daz, but I simultaneously do really like the styles of KK games, and the PassionEye engine style... so if I could have that style as an option open to me, that would be super dope. I'll check out what you mentioned and see if I can find some examples -- thanks!

yah for example stuff like (click)

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[hlfwaycrks]

yah for example stuff like (click)

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The second one, "Genesis 9 Toon Essential Shapes Bundle" looks a lot more of like what I had in mind -- not so much the first one, but that's okay. Seeing this stuff and not being able to learn/play around with it sucks, but it's awesome to have these things lined up for when I get there! I'm excited to see how flexible it will be in sort of re-creating an art style like KK/PassionEye (not one-to-one, but like, in that same vein), then. Thanks for sharing

 

[n00bi]

Thanks! I'm going to line up with the 4060Ti then, or if I can swing it I'll go up to the 4070Ti, either way with 16GB. I appreciate your feedback very much. I'm excited to get set up and start learning the ropes by actually doing stuff!

If youre going to buy a new card. i suggest you wait a few months.
Nvidia is releasing its 50xx series after the newyear, and i bet you the prices for the 40xx series will drop then.

Aslo i dont think a 4060,Ti is good bang for the buck atm. if you instead take the older generation card. 30xx series.
The 3090Ti will outperform a 4060Ti as it has 10K cuda cores while 4060Ti has around 4.3K cuda cores.

When doing rendering you def want more cuda core. as rendering engines as octan, redshift, vray etc is built around nvidias proprietary solutions.

for games. Amd radeon etc is good, but when you want to do rendering you def want nvidia with a ton of cores.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Aslo i dont think a 4060,Ti is good bang for the buck atm. if you instead take the older generation card. 30xx series.
The 3090Ti will outperform a 4060Ti as it has 10K cuda cores while 4060Ti has around 4.3K cuda cores.

Uhh wut bro you're comparing a $400 card to a $1000 card. At that ratio, it's inferior bang for the buck. Agreed with waiting till 5000 series if you want high end though.

 

[n00bi]

Uhh wut bro you're comparing a $400 card to a $1000 card. At that ratio, it's inferior bang for the buck. Agreed with waiting till 5000 series if you want high end though.

Yes i am comparing it against a older gen card, might be a bit wrong. but my point is that 4060 isnt a good choice imo.
3090Ti might still be a bit expensive but you could find it cheaper as used , demo usage etc.
Also people should not get hyped up by the naming skime of Nvidia.
Bcause if we follow the previouse trend from them.
We def dont want a 5060 when doing rendering. a better choice would be 4070Ti or a 4090Ti.
As it about the amount of cores. the memory speed transfere is bascialy not a issue these days with any card but core count is.
Anyway, im exited about the 5090Ti but one will probably need to sell your soul and your entire familys soul too to afford a 5090Ti when it arrives.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Yes i am comparing it against a older gen card, might be a bit wrong. but my point is that 4060 isnt a good choice imo.
3090Ti might still be a bit expensive but you could find it cheaper as used , demo usage etc.
Also people should not get hyped up by the naming skime of Nvidia.
Bcause if we follow the previouse trend from them.
We def dont want a 5060 when doing rendering. a better choice would be 4070Ti or a 4090Ti.
As it about the amount of cores. the memory speed transfere is bascialy not a issue these days with any card but core count is.
Anyway, im exited about the 5090Ti but one will probably need to sell your soul and your entire familys soul too to afford a 5090Ti when it arrives.

Nono I'm not scoffing at it because it's older, I'm scoffing because it costs 2.5 times as much! You gotta consider the price point in everything (especially nvidia ) Of COURSE a 4090 will be better than a 5060, and a Porsche is faster than a honda civic. The question isn't if it's better, the question is if the increase in performance is worth the increase in price tag.

 

[TheDevian]

Nono I'm not scoffing at it because it's older, I'm scoffing because it costs 2.5 times as much! You gotta consider the price point in everything (especially nvidia ) Of COURSE a 4090 will be better than a 5060, and a Porsche is faster than a honda civic. The question isn't if it's better, the question is if the increase in performance is worth the increase in price tag.

When you are talking about Daz, then that money is worth it, both in the time it will save you, as well as the fact that you will be able to render far more complex scenes due to it having more ram. Going from a 2080ti to a 3090, I went from being able to render 3-4 people in my bar to 17+, no more need for billboards.

 

[n00bi]

you're comparing a $400 card to a $1000 card.

You gotta consider the price point in everything

Ok lets break down some prices with the numbers you used. for things that matters in a rendering rig.

Price per cuda core
RTX 3090 Ti: 10,752 CUDA cores / $1000 = $10.75
RTX 4060 Ti: 4,352 CUDA cores / $400 = $10.88

Price per vram mb
RTX 3090 Ti: 24576MB / $1000 = $24.57
RTX 4060 Ti: 16384MB / $400 = $40.96
So on.
Math Joke aside..

Even tho its overall more expensive as a initial purchase. it give the most bang for the buck in the long run.

Edit:
Also as stated above, the time saved per render is also a huge thing to consider.
if you dont belive me that the number of cores matter go try render on a radeon card and come back and tell it was fun.
if you do. we need to sit down and have a serious talk

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Ok lets break down some prices with the numbers you used. for things that matters in a rendering rig.

Price per cuda core
RTX 3090 Ti: 10,752 CUDA cores / $1000 = $10.75
RTX 4060 Ti: 4,352 CUDA cores / $400 = $10.88

Price per vram mb
RTX 3090 Ti: 24576MB / $1000 = $24.57
RTX 4060 Ti: 16384MB / $400 = $40.96
So on.

Even tho its overall more expensive as a initial purchase. it give the most bang for the buck.

Edit:
Also as stated above, the time saved per render is also a huge thing to consider.
if you dont belive me that the number of cores matter go try render on a radeon card and come back and tell it was fun.
if you do. we need to sit down and have a serious talk

That assumes render time scales linearly with core count. I'm not saying it doesn't, I dont know if it does, I'm assuming the function would be more complicated than that.

Separately, radeon cards cant render not because of core count, but because iray is proprietary to nvidia - so daz falls back to software rendering on the cpu and it slows to a crawl.

I'm extremely wary of nvidia's price gouging behavior and try and advise people accordingly. If the assumed above is true, and a system running those cards appreciates a 2.5x increase in render speed, then I'd agree that'd be worth it. But again, I'm more wary than others of gobbling up whatever nvidia puts out, at whatever pricepoint they do it at.

I mean be honest, when the 5000 series comes, does it really matter if the 5090 retails at $1500 or 3 grand? At the end of the day, people with lots of disposable income who like to render will get it. I say this to try and illustrate how removed the concept of performance/price is in this specific market.

 

[n00bi]

That assumes render time scales linearly with core count. I'm not saying it doesn't, I dont know if it does, I'm assuming the function would be more complicated than that.

Its too complicated to say its fully linear. for sertan tasks you can make its close to linear.
but there are many factors to consider.

Separately, radeon cards cant render not because of core count, but because iray is propreitary to nvidia - so daz falls back to software rendering on the cpu and it slows to a crawl.

Indeed. its sad that Radeon or other "Brands" cant compete in the rendering part of the market.
Cuda tech from Nvidia is a proprietary solution.
And amd/radeon or intel ... "insert manufaturere" has no solution that is on pair with what Nvidia has.
Once upon a time there was matrox tho, dont know what happened to them tho.

Thus render engine like octan, redshift etc, used in 3D tools like maxon c4d, blender..
Is only properly supported with Nvidia cards.
Its like a evil cirlce that needs to be broken

I mean be honest, when the 5000 series comes, does it really matter if the 5090 retails at $1500 or 3 grand?
At the end of the day, people with lots of disposable income who like to render will get it.
I say this to try and illustrate how removed the concept of performance/price is in this specific market.

Nvidia can basically dictate the price as it dominates both the gaming and rendering market.
But of course it matters if the 5090 retails at $1500 or $3K.
We as consumer have the power to say. fuck it Nvidia i had it with your price gouging, and hold off buying.
we just need to exercise this power.

 

[Jumbi]

Its too complicated to say its fully linear. for sertan tasks you can make its close to linear.
but there are many factors to consider.



Indeed. its sad that Radeon or other "Brands" cant compete in the rendering part of the market.
Cuda tech from Nvidia is a proprietary solution.
And amd/radeon or intel ... "insert manufaturere" has no solution that is on pair with what Nvidia has.
Once upon a time there was matrox tho, dont know what happened to them tho.

Thus render engine like octan, redshift etc, used in 3D tools like maxon c4d, blender..
Is only properly supported with Nvidia cards.
Its like a evil cirlce that needs to be broken


Nvidia can basically dictate the price as it dominates both the gaming and rendering market.
But of course it matters if the 5090 retails at $1500 or $3K.
We as consumer have the power to say. fuck it Nvidia i had it with your price gouging, and hold off buying.
we just need to exercise this power.

Considering that I paid €1779 plus shipping for my 4090 FE by the end of September last year, I can see NVIDIA asking over €2000 for the upcoming 5090, especially if they go over the 24 GB VRAM mark with it. I'd love to say that I won't buy the new card because it is a lot of money it costs. But in the end, unless the increase in price is outrageous and render power is not substantially improved, I can see myself falling into temptation once again. LOL

 

[Lamek23]

Hi, beginner DAZ user here. Does anyone know of an easy way to export only the mesh from DAZ to Blender without the rig and textures? I loose some time deleting everything in blender. I tried using the official DAZ plugin, diffeomorphic plugin and also exporting as fbx and obj but can`t seem to find any settings besides merging textures and morphs.