A few observations and suggestions.
- Thread starter grtrader
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- May 31, 2018
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I mean, if H-game characters didn't make bad decisions, we wouldn't even have the "corruption" genre. Games are fantasy and operate on enormously compressed timescales--I at least don't really expect things to be done even plausibly. If I found myself thinking "wow this could've happened in real life" that alone would probably be enough to turn me off of a game.
It kinda gets at the discussion of the sliding scale of believability. Folks just have different tolerances for how far up their eyebrows can go before something stops being enjoyable for them. The first person shooter genre (as an aside) has been sort of internally struggling with this debate for a long time now. At what point does eliminating the "game" elements from the game make it too boring to play? The answer, of course, is very different for different gamers. There are simulation games out there where you might have to drive a tank half an hour to the front in certain cases, and there's nothing stopping you from getting bombed by a fighter-bomber or even just shot by another tank and losing it a minute after you arrive. Plenty of gamers wouldn't even consider playing in a situation like that, but some of them can tolerate it. Other games are getting browner and more similar by the year because the players seem to like it, but then they need to work at other ways of making themselves distinct from the others. This trend, now, is kinda starting to reverse as more colorful (in more than one sense) games are starting to get popular.
Sure, at least some of what people complain about might be laziness, incompetence, or cheating on the parts of the developers, who surely in some cases don't want to invest more work in a game than they need to or are able to. It's great to want to give advice to developers who want to focus on making their games believable, but it's important to keep in mind that there will probably always be floods of games out there that just aren't, either because they just weren't developed that way or because the players don't care enough about it.
It kinda gets at the discussion of the sliding scale of believability. Folks just have different tolerances for how far up their eyebrows can go before something stops being enjoyable for them. The first person shooter genre (as an aside) has been sort of internally struggling with this debate for a long time now. At what point does eliminating the "game" elements from the game make it too boring to play? The answer, of course, is very different for different gamers. There are simulation games out there where you might have to drive a tank half an hour to the front in certain cases, and there's nothing stopping you from getting bombed by a fighter-bomber or even just shot by another tank and losing it a minute after you arrive. Plenty of gamers wouldn't even consider playing in a situation like that, but some of them can tolerate it. Other games are getting browner and more similar by the year because the players seem to like it, but then they need to work at other ways of making themselves distinct from the others. This trend, now, is kinda starting to reverse as more colorful (in more than one sense) games are starting to get popular.
Sure, at least some of what people complain about might be laziness, incompetence, or cheating on the parts of the developers, who surely in some cases don't want to invest more work in a game than they need to or are able to. It's great to want to give advice to developers who want to focus on making their games believable, but it's important to keep in mind that there will probably always be floods of games out there that just aren't, either because they just weren't developed that way or because the players don't care enough about it.
- May 19, 2017
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It does make a story more immersive... when there are holes in the plot... just begging to be filled by the reader.
- Nov 16, 2017
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I can see some of the original points started by the thread author... 9 times out of 10, an erotic VN/Game is going to have one or more characters that have personalities or character traits that defy believability... It might have been intentional, lack of the finer points of human psychology, and/or it just wasn't something that mattered... Most movies and fictional works are mix of various dichotomy variations when it comes to characters and their diverse personalities... Mix into all that, the various actor quirks and/or skills (maybe even lack of skills) when they portray those characters... Same goes for written works of fiction... Not all stories have 100% believable or realistic characters across the board... Especially when you begin delving into fantasy, science fiction, and the super natural genres...
Then here we have the Erotic Fiction genre... Which so happens to include Erotic Visual Novels and Porn Games... Most of which (at least in the western markets) are designed by amateur story writers and fresh/newer artists, trying to gain a foot hold in this small niche market... They may not have the background, experience, or desire to include more realistic stories and game play that revolves around psychology... And in many cases, the VN/Game may not have been intentioned to be anything with a deep and meaningful story/plot with diverse and realistic characters... They may just be making something quick and fun and full of porn... Either because they are trying to appeal to a specific sect of players/readers, or that is all they are capable of making, if not just for their own entertainment and story/game making experience...
When it comes to things like Mind Breaking, which in and of itself is usually an experience riddled with mind games, terror, and atrocities, that I for one, would not want to see, read, or experience in an erotic game or visual novel... So what do you primarily get in these things, is a less realistic and more favored method of Mind Breaking, that is easier to deal with and perhaps so over simplified to just get by as Mind Breaking at all... But it may work for the VN and/or Game...
Same with corruption... Most corruption stories are based on Magic, or Science Fiction, or Super Natural Abilities... Because you don't necessarily have to explain the intricacies of how that is even possible... It just is... Very few corruption games that don't use methods like that, instead may try seduction and/or manipulation instead... But as we all know, in reality that takes a lot of time and planning and setting up, and it may even backfire more then it succeeds... But in story telling, you don't necessarily have that kind of time, because you need to keep the story ball rolling (somehow) before folks start to fall asleep... So it happens usually a lot faster then what would be expected or necessarily believed in... Sometimes it's more about the fantasy of it, then the reality of it...
I've run into some VN/Games where they try to put in some more realistic approaches, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't... All depends on the story, how it's told, and if it really matters to the story teller in the first place...
Zip
Then here we have the Erotic Fiction genre... Which so happens to include Erotic Visual Novels and Porn Games... Most of which (at least in the western markets) are designed by amateur story writers and fresh/newer artists, trying to gain a foot hold in this small niche market... They may not have the background, experience, or desire to include more realistic stories and game play that revolves around psychology... And in many cases, the VN/Game may not have been intentioned to be anything with a deep and meaningful story/plot with diverse and realistic characters... They may just be making something quick and fun and full of porn... Either because they are trying to appeal to a specific sect of players/readers, or that is all they are capable of making, if not just for their own entertainment and story/game making experience...
When it comes to things like Mind Breaking, which in and of itself is usually an experience riddled with mind games, terror, and atrocities, that I for one, would not want to see, read, or experience in an erotic game or visual novel... So what do you primarily get in these things, is a less realistic and more favored method of Mind Breaking, that is easier to deal with and perhaps so over simplified to just get by as Mind Breaking at all... But it may work for the VN and/or Game...
Same with corruption... Most corruption stories are based on Magic, or Science Fiction, or Super Natural Abilities... Because you don't necessarily have to explain the intricacies of how that is even possible... It just is... Very few corruption games that don't use methods like that, instead may try seduction and/or manipulation instead... But as we all know, in reality that takes a lot of time and planning and setting up, and it may even backfire more then it succeeds... But in story telling, you don't necessarily have that kind of time, because you need to keep the story ball rolling (somehow) before folks start to fall asleep... So it happens usually a lot faster then what would be expected or necessarily believed in... Sometimes it's more about the fantasy of it, then the reality of it...
I've run into some VN/Games where they try to put in some more realistic approaches, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't... All depends on the story, how it's told, and if it really matters to the story teller in the first place...
Zip
- May 19, 2017
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People obviously have their preferences. best to let the player choose which rabbit to follow
some players might just want to skip a hole altogether, and then what, they're stuck being small and there's no mushrooms? can't have that. you're hurting yourself by making the story too linear, you want to encourage replayability, not rush them along.
maybe the lugs were too tight, and he went looking for weight for more leverage to turn the wrench, and he found a bowling ball.
the bowling ball hole fits the wrench perfectly. 16 lb ball @ 18 inch wrench = torque his nuts get off
but maybe on this playthrough, he just leaves the car with the flat tire, and decides to walk to the next node of the game.
next time he plays, he can explore playing with the balls
- Nov 16, 2017
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In the case of a Main Character(MC)/Protagonist that you may/or may not have some form of control over... It's always preferable, for me, that they have a little more attention to detail in their personality and story telling... But again, not all VN/Games are designed the same... So that level of realism and/or depth may not either necessarily be needed or wanted... It just depends on the dynamics of the story telling/game play as designed or written by the developers...
I also like to see the protagonist develop over time, and not stay this stagnant thing that you kind of just follow around... But, yes, not all VN/Games have that or perhaps the creator just didn't care about it... You see the not care thing, more so in VN/Games intended for pure porn fest then actual story telling... In those particular cases, does it really matter if the main character is unbelievable? For it's intended target audience, probably not...
Zip
- May 19, 2017
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games contain stories yes, but games are not stories. spelling out a story with pics, is a comic book (if each frame is highly detailed) or a visual novel. games = challenge = reward = dopamine. vn = you telling your story
game = you give clues, player figures out your story. player might not get cucked the way you did, based on their choices in the game. with a vn, you always get cucked, the sad vn dev wants you to share his pain
you can't relate to a vn mc, "why the hell would i wear that outfit" "i must have been really drunk to get a nose-ring" "no wonder my gf is cheating, i work at mcdonalds"
a game doesn't force-feed the story. main quest is mandatory side quests are optional. play again and again discover more of the story each time, then ah ha, you figure out the story
- Jul 10, 2017
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This is about game design itself though. If you as a player feel you lack the choice, that is not on the game, that is on you. Just look at just about any roleplay games out there. Something you would wish, for more choices, but you have to deal with what is within the framework of the game. If I start play a game and feel I want more choices, the game is just not for me, and I find something else to play.
Also, games is fiction, fantasy. I know quite a few want more realistic approach to things, and a good story that reflect real life more. But there is those that doesn't because the games is a escape from real life as well.
Imho the more you got of real life experience and baggage to go with, the better geared you would be towards write believable characters and stories. But we can't really fault creators and story writers about lack of experience though as this is something that come with time.
- Jul 10, 2017
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Well, there is many categories of games though. Some make you play a story and you get railroaded from point a to b and so on. Where you got little choice in what actually take place, you just a passenger along the way. You have little more influence in how the story end than what you would do with watching a movie or reading a book.
Other games might be huge open world games where you have quest/missions and puzzles to solve with multiple solutions and endings. This is not the typical adult games, and tbh will never be because of the sheer amount of work it would require to make something like that.
As a player you have only real choice.. Do you want to play a game or not? If you don't like something don't play it.
- Jul 10, 2017
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Well this is a product of you as the player get dumped into a game where there is no real backstory to the characters. The context you want is one you kinda need to imagine or picture for yourself. It's a bit when you read a book I guess. Later you might find the book got a movie adaption. You watch it and "this is nothing like I did picture it". Unless the game serve up context further down the line.
- Jul 10, 2017
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I try to connect the dots and the context to the actual quote you did of my post.... But, sorry I come up short
