they are both ntr and Netorase. And no, I'm not a fan of neither just don't hate the genre, nor do I love it. H-scenes are usually goated, tho and I'm a fan of porn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Thread starter HangoverCat
- Start date
yh they are annoying, but their hate comes from an understandable place. Like now, a ton of NTR games that have great H-scenes and quality are popping up. Some of them are left without any substance, so they bitch at the one that gets more. and then they tend to make the mc dumber than a bag of rocks.
Personally, as long as the H-scenes and quality are fire and the game doesn't challenge my intelligence, I'm cool with it. Like this game, I want to like it so bad, but damn it, it feels like as the game goes on, it gets worse. Like, at this point, make a manga instead of a game.
So this has probably been mentioned so many times before but we really need a Luca pov that explains why tf this mans is so obsessed with Harry lol.
Thats nonsense. There are plenty of games with great art that have no NTR, should I be upset about them ?
It doesn't get worse, it gets worse for you because you are not into it. The are multiple layers of character development to justify why MC is acting the way he does. Were you the person praising clumsiness ?... yes .. So you think that clumsiness MC is more believable than Harry ?
This hits the nail on the head.
The game is actually too well written, it turns out empathy can be quite a spoilsport. (There are many ways people enjoy NTR, some like it when it hits hard, not talking about those). I remember years back questioning how stupid the Japanese ntr are "can't they really write anything believable ?" Well when the girl is blackmailed with some nudes and enjoys it after two pistons it is easy to say "slut got what she deserved" . But when she does it to protect loved ones, there is no visible "escape" from the situation and she resists it as much as she can, uhh it hits in the gut.
Same goes if you connect with MC, if situation is ridiculous, MC is obviously failing, if their relationship is not well developed/ conveyed it will be much easier to not feel for MC.
The reason folks are so upset is because there is no "escape" that the characters are missing, hence they are desperate for the dev to create one for them.
Well, Laura and Aya aren't "good" characters at all. She didn't protect Harry, she didn't communicate the issue with him which would have respected his decision in the issue (ie she cucked him to save him, which is stupid on its face) and then... she continued that lack of communication to essentially justify her desire to cuck him completely. Evil to the core character, there wasn't any real "connection" between them, she was a dirty whore from day 1.
As for Aya, complete crap... talk about evil of evils. Another huge issue of a lack of communication and assumptions on her part that she then justified to betray him.
The whole story is a shit show of clown FMC whores who essentially fall for "big dick good" reasoning on top of stupid woman assumption logic that he is held to and crucified for.
All that aside, the MC/FMCs are written in a way specifically to carry on the cuck/humiliation reasoning. It isn't "well written", it is simply a porn logic NTR that forces a progression so it can continue one cuck scene after the next.
The whole thing is horribly retarded on so many levels it is absurd.
That is how you see it being someone connecting with MC. But they do not see it that way, it is just sex really, the whole idea of your spouse sleeping with another being worse than death is male thing. The point of entry is : I sell my body for his freedom and if he hates me as result that is a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Why she doesn't tell him ? because she knows he would do same for her, and revealing it would mean he is the one that will sacrifice.
Aya is ... mentally ill brother. You know there is even condition where person hurts the most loved one so they can take care of them and be indepted to.
The writing is good or bad not by the merit of what you want it to be but by the merit of what it strives to do. And It does very well what it wants to do.
This is porn, you have no right to question what others find exciting and want to see written.
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Well, like I said, dumb woman logic, or rather.. more specifically dumb whore logic. Fact is, many women view sex similar to the "male" view, which is why they go fucking ape shit when they get cheated on, though I am sure some whores don't see it that way. She like a typical dumb woman decided she knew best and was going to decide for him. She decided to impale herself on dick like she was being noble and ended up liking it so much, she joined forces to make him suffer in her desire to go after Aya. More dumb woman logic there, you know... cuz she cares and all. lol
When you play out several of the paths, the absolute evil nature of her actions become quite apparent. She is as evil as Lucas, but written under the guise of "poor me".
She goes beyond that though. At times, yes... but then you see how she begins to reason the most disgusting and foul things on him to where it is obvious this isn't character writing as you say, but one to "continue the cuck/humiliation".
At the end of the day, I could care less what other people like, I call it as I see it and I can have an opinion as I like, don't like it... don't read it, don't respond. Not everyone will agree, its not the end of the world.
So like I said, I see far too much "cuck/humiliation" kink being pushed into the writing and then explained away as if it is just the characters natural disposition. The MC and FMCs are written very obviously for the purpose of cuck/humiliation fetish, not some "reasoned" story of good writing which was my point.
Haha I can almost hear how upset you are about it. But you know it doesn't matter if you consider her evil or not, what matters if the situation is believable. Can you question the fact that she thinks she is saving Harry? Can you question the fact that Harry in his boundless love is willing to forgive her? Not even considering that he has trauma and blames himself for abandoning Maya...
Tho you are the one that quoted me...
You don't seem to understand that in porn game good writing is delivering kinks well. If you want real good writing maybe read something that is not meant to be a fap material ?
Btw. I don't think you actually care about good writing, you care that there is too much of fetish you don't like.
Or...it could be that premise is so strong that people get annoyed at it being squandered or we have spend enough time hoping that its gonna go on a good direction that we get mad when that doesn't happen. Myself included this same path, I was impressed by the update where Luca and Aya goes to Luca's den and the one where Aya kills the maid girl, I was heartbroken but impressed. Only to later on end up with updates with writing like "hmm...wait is that? no.. that must be a baloon with toothpaste in it" logic. I personally get very irritated when my time is spend on some crap like that. Because if I just wanted to watch porn I would be doing that instead of playing this. So I get offended when my time and intelligence is not respected. But then again we are doing it for free so its alright. You ever come across those shitty chinese short stories on cheating and revenge on youtube. If you do, you know that people lose their mind over those too in the comments. It has nothing to do with those stories being good. Its the utter lack of respect for the audience's intelligence.
I can accept she is stupid and thinks like many stupid women do, but the point was that the plot is driven for the sex, nothing more... yes, I know... porn game, but the story wreaks like a porn movie script where every interaction and story element only exists to drive the next sex scene. The MC is the cuck, the scenes need to push the cucking/humiliation. It isn't simply a story about his girl being stolen, it is about him being cucked into oblivion and watching the FMC/antagonist gloat and take pleasure in his misery. The game is framed and advertised as Netorare, but is really just a Netori story from the victims perspective.
I guess you could sell it on its ridiculousness, like a horrible movie that becomes a cult classic, but all in all the story is just a "cuck me" fetish with shock scenes. If anything is interesting it is waiting to see how the next story progression is going to top the previous one in silliness.
That is the thing, it isn't believable as the MC, he is written so completely moronic simply to push the cucking in every decision he makes. You may be able to reason the females choices off as "crazy whore chick logic", but the MC has no touch in sanity because his entire purpose is to progress the Netori cucking scenes of the FMC/Antagonist.
Upset, not in the way you think. More annoyed because it is like playing stupid horror movie where the person makes the dumbest decisions even possible simply because the plot needs to progress its "horror".
It isn't good writing, it is actually pretty blatant and low brow for its obvious plot trigger elements.
Netorare isn't about "fapping" though. I understand your point if you play the game from a Netori angle and the whole point is the fap kink, but why not play a netori game from an MC angle as the cheater who cucks the various NPCs? Those are the characters I see many who like this game seem to operate from, that they identify with the FMC/Antagonist, but the story isn't written from their perspective, so it is an odd means to have to extend out to their view to connect with.
No, honestly I get why this is written the way it is. Some get off on watching the MC be humiliated, that is their kink, to see the misery and suffering of the MC like they are the one doing the cucking. But Netorare is about the emotional rollercoaster of being cheated on, from the MCs perspective, not the Netori of the cheater and this fact is blatant in the writing as the entire point is to keep the story going to please that perspective.
As a Netorare, the story plays off stupidly. A well written Netorare has a competent MC, who is intelligent and the cheating is a careful investigation of occurrences which may or may not be actual cheating, with some false positives and a slow progression of emotion struggle for the MC to finding out. The MC in this game is just an idiot, a plot element as I said to ridiculously drive the kink.
As I said, and as you pointed out... porn game, porn writing, porn focus... and while some enjoy the "porn" side of Netorare, there is a no sexual side to that type of story which presents a problem for people seeking a a progression of that because this story isn't intelligent, it doesn't have ups and downs, it is one fall after another into complete demoralization for the express purpose of serving the kink. Most of the resolutions are not MC directions, but paths to serve different ways to satisfy the kink.
It is Netori false advertised as Netorare.
The reason some may get annoyed at it is because there is no natural cycle of a Netorare which provides a completion to that story cycle, its just a dead fall, again to serve the kink.
Nothing brilliant, nothing good... just kink. Some may enjoy it, but as a Netorare it is poorly written, structured and delivered.
Yep, there is no reason that actual logic and well thought out progressions could not exist in the game. The MC doesn't have to be an idiot, he can be fooled intelligently, but that isn't the goal of the game. The whole point of the ridiculous situations is entirely centered around the Netori kink.
The MC is the kicking pet for the kink, who keeps having notes pasted to his back while everyone laughs at the situation in front of him. This is why every action and issue is centered around that. The whole "oh look, we are doing this right under his nose, look how blatant we are, how in his face and he doesn't even realize we are cucking him right to his face!"
That isn't netorare, a story focused on the MCs discovery of his love being stolen, it is simply a mechanic to appease the Netori fetish.
Many of these types of games could easily be classified as simply Netorare - Reverse Netori, basically Netori through the MC's eyes because that is exactly the point of the story, not emotional roller coaster of Netorare. If you play it from the MC's perspective (not self inserting, just empathizing with the MCs story), all you get is a constant progression of being a dupe for the sole purpose of the kink, it isn't an honest Netorare story due to the ridiculous plot drives as you pointed out, it is just... stupid on its face.
Already covered this.
Great, now its false advertising. I guess the countless games, hentai and manga with oblivious cuck are all misstagged. Go report the thread and have mods remove the tag, see how that goes.
Nice dismissal and avoidance of the points made. You sure nailed that debate!
I have never. In my entire life. Saw a netori story that focuses on humiliation of another guy.
...But maybe I don't read enough gay stuff, idk.
That sounds like a good story. I'd like to read something like it.
But your notion that anything different from it can't be tagged as 'netorare' is, honestly, ridiculous.
I haven't played many to be honest, I don't care for the perspective, is the one stolen from not treated in the same manner as most of these NTR games where the Antagonist is screwing the girl around the husband/boyfriend, but hiding it in plain sight so to speak? Or is it more just an issue where the husband/boyfriend is just mentioned as a side note as the MC is off cheating?
This game purposefully has Lucas in situations where he is screwing the women in front of Harry, but hiding it through various means. In that respect, it is cucking Harry, it is just doing it as a means of subverted humiliation (ie putting a note on a persons back that says kick me while everyone laughs). Still cucking, still humiliating, but the target is the joke that the FMC/Antagonist are laughing at so to speak.
Well, as I said... a game like this, it is framed in Netorare, but it doesn't operate as that. The story isn't so much about his love being stolen as it is him being cucked/humiliated by the antagonist. Sure, "technically" being that you play the MC and he is the narrator and view of the situation, it is that, but in actuality, the story is about the Netori and that is pretty obvious by how many here view the story from the FMC/Antagonist role, not from the perspective of the MC.
Sure, you can view it and side with whatever you like, but if Netorare is about having your love stolen and Netori is about stealing someone elses love, well... what is the point of playing from the view of Harry if you are looking at it from the position of Lucas? Wouldn't the story fit better for people who do that to see it from the view of Lucas or Aya/Laura?
I am not saying this is set in stone, but it makes a lot of these stories confusing because everything gets thrown under the same label that doesn't properly explain it. Heck, even Google Translate essentially calls "Netorare" Cucking, when that is not what it means. To do that completely ignores Netori, Netorase, etc... and they are at different spectrums and mean different things. That is, a Netorare story is not about a cuckold, it is about an affair against the will of the MC.
Cuckolding is knowing and approving of it. Harry does not know it most of the time and when he does he certainly does not approve it. He is being "cucked" in the slang since of it, but he is not a cuckold by actual definition because he does not approve of it.
I just want to be clear. This game IS Netorare, I don't argue that.
My point is more on how it is approached in the writing, scenes, and direction. It is like a Netorare story told with a strong Netori focus on the content. Harry suffers, but he is often always setup for the perfect antagonist plan and the FMCs are perfect in orchestrating to this end. Netorare, yes... strong Netori appeal for those who identify with the FMC/Antagonist.
That is, the story goes a really long way to tell a story that is essentially glorifying the FMC/Antagonist. In that of itself, I guess it is even its own sub genre if you think about it I guess.
I see Netorare more in a realistic fashion of emotional struggle with the fact that the loved one is cheating, but with Harry... it is like his struggle is written by the guy doing the cheating if that makes any sense? Harry seems so ridiculous because how he acts, each decision he makes is the perfect storm that fits right into the excuses of the FMC/antagonist to get their way.
It is like watching a movie where the hero always has everything work out perfectly for him in every situation, but in this story, it is exactly the opposite.
I guess... well... hmm... if that was the goal... if that was the angle... then maybe it is well written satire of that situation, but I am not sure that was the original intent. I just know that if you came into the game expecting a realistic netorare story on relationships and struggle, this story comes off... well completely retarded.
My point is more on how it is approached in the writing, scenes, and direction. It is like a Netorare story told with a strong Netori focus on the content. Harry suffers, but he is often always setup for the perfect antagonist plan and the FMCs are perfect in orchestrating to this end. Netorare, yes... strong Netori appeal for those who identify with the FMC/Antagonist.
That is, the story goes a really long way to tell a story that is essentially glorifying the FMC/Antagonist. In that of itself, I guess it is even its own sub genre if you think about it I guess.
I see Netorare more in a realistic fashion of emotional struggle with the fact that the loved one is cheating, but with Harry... it is like his struggle is written by the guy doing the cheating if that makes any sense? Harry seems so ridiculous because how he acts, each decision he makes is the perfect storm that fits right into the excuses of the FMC/antagonist to get their way.
It is like watching a movie where the hero always has everything work out perfectly for him in every situation, but in this story, it is exactly the opposite.
I guess... well... hmm... if that was the goal... if that was the angle... then maybe it is well written satire of that situation, but I am not sure that was the original intent. I just know that if you came into the game expecting a realistic netorare story on relationships and struggle, this story comes off... well completely retarded.
What is funny is that we both have been rigid in what we are criticizing, we haven't changed our points atleast from the start of this particular discussion. But the goalpost has been moved so much its funny. It went from You hate NTR -> You can't handle NTR ending -> The story is good -> You do not get the point of the story. I don't honestly understand why defend someone just for writing something in a particular Genre. Its the same as defending Steven Seagal movies just because I love action. Nobody is attacking action movies. The story and the movie fucking suck and the reasons have been made clear well enough. The movie can explain why Steven Segal is taking revenge for the death of his third mistress that doesn't mean the reason or the story is good. Something can be made to look deep and it would still be trash. We can decorate poop like cake but it would still be poop not cake.
mzer0
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- Nov 21, 2018
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This image sums up what you are dealing with when it comes to these people. It's a mental illness. I have found that it is best not to engage. But you guys look like you're having fun, so knock yourselves out.
