- Jul 27, 2020
- 351
- 918
Definitely.Time for Harry x Luca
This would be the best and non far-fetched "revenge" for Laura that game could have.
Definitely.Time for Harry x Luca
I think the best alternative to satisfy all folks would be if the player could also play the game from Lucas perspective.I completely understand the desire for a good ending to be included, I've wanted one myself several times. But as for whether or not one should be included from a game perspective, I'm not sure. One could make the argument that it's the need for the player to find the good path but incapable of finding it that makes the NTR hit just the right spot for the player. If they just make that right decision, thread the needle of choices to find the one path where everything goes right, then they can experience relief that a happy ending does exist, and they can close the game in satisfaction. But if it doesn't exist, that small ache inside drives them to look for it over and over again no matter how futile they know it to be.
I want that, but for Laura. Don't really care about Harry, unless he can contribute to humiliating Laura in some way.I don't want a good ending in this game. I also don't want a edgelord revenge-cuck ending aka "KiWw tHE LuCA" or other stupid childish nonsense.
All I want is that Harry to fall into the abyss of humilation, perverted pleasure and misery. Is this so much to ask?!
To your second question, people are calling Laura's first sexual encounter with Luca rape because it was... rape. Yes, he gave her a choice, and yes, she ultimately chose to have sex with him. But that doesn't change the fact that she was doing it under duress.2.Why are people calling Laura's first sexual encounter with Luca as rape? She got there through a series of conscious decisions made by a full-grown adult. She had a problem in her relationship (the partner possibly losing his job) and she chose to solve that issue not inside the relationship (by speaking with Harry), but outside of it (by having consenting sex with Luca; consenting as in the result of a series of conscious decisions). And in doing that she exposed her partner to emotional trauma (PISD, the equivalent to PTSD, but coming from infidelity), physical trauma (STDs, which with Luca are inevitable: the multiple partners, the lack of protection, and that kink of his to have Harry unknowingly drink his cum doesn't suggest a person who takes hygiene seriously) and potentially financial risks (Luca being an admited member of some sort of Mafia; generally, Mafia deals in extorsion and racketeering). Isn't that just plain old cheating because she wanted to ?
She got there through being threatened. She made a bad decision in response to being threatened, but that doesn't change the fact that she was threatened. Not seduced. Threatened.She got there through a series of conscious decisions made by a full-grown adult.
Sorry if I am misinterpreting things: duress that has a readily and easy alternative to not be duress - isn't actually not duress ?To your second question, people are calling Laura's first sexual encounter with Luca rape because it was... rape. Yes, he gave her a choice, and yes, she ultimately chose to have sex with him. But that doesn't change the fact that she was doing it under duress.
Because blackmail isn't tied to sex. But blackmail is a form of coercion, you will get prosecuted for both rape and blackmail. It kinda like if you go with illegal gun to rob a store. You will get prosecuted for both having the gun and robbery.Well, rape and blackmailing are completely different things and are being considered so in most of countries' criminal codes.
She didn't make the decision of her own will. She was forced to chose between bad and bad. In all imaginable situations that is not a consensual intercourse and non-consensual sex we call rape.And I feel I have to repeat the words "own decision"
Duress is subjective. It doesn't matter if the thing causing the duress is credible or not. All that matters is that the victim believes it to be credible.Sorry if I am misinterpreting things: duress that has a readily and easy alternative to not be duress - isn't actually not duress ?
Yes, but the only reason she made that decision was because she was...wait for it... under duress. Without Luca's threat, Laura never would have 'made the decision' to have sex with him. She only did it because she felt threatened. Fear is the polar opposite of consent, therefore she was raped.And I feel I have to repeat the words "own decision"
And here's where I stop taking you seriously, friend. If you read that scene and somehow managed to interpret Laura's tears to be anything other than strongly negative, specifically because she's cheating on Harry, then you have some severe reading comprehension issues.Also crying doesn't necessarily happen because of pain or remorse or fear (see hysterical bonding for example).
The threat wasn't imminent. She had time to inform whoever she thinks is appropriate to do so. HR, police and Harry. If it was stated as "Either now we are having sexual intercourse, or your boyfriend will be fired for corporate leakage" then yes, it is a rape, she had no space and time for a maneuvor. But, this wasn't a case. Is she had being pinned to the wall? Yes, and that's blackmailing. Is he had forced her to do it at the time of blackmailing? No. So, it's not a rape by it's definition. It looks like I'm playing mental gymnastic, because I disagree with calling it a rape, so, let's go through some points. (though, before that I have to state that I strongly against any kind of duress, sexual or not, done by whoever to whoever).Well then, my two general points:Because blackmail isn't tied to sex. But blackmail is a form of coercion, you will get prosecuted for both rape and blackmail. It kinda like if you go with illegal gun to rob a store. You will get prosecuted for both having the gun and robbery.
Do you understand what is consent?The threat wasn't imminent. She had time to inform whoever she thinks is appropriate to do so. HR, police and Harry. If it was stated as "Either now we are having sexual intercourse, or your boyfriend will be fired for corporate leakage" then yes, it is a rape, she had no space and time for a maneuvor. But, this wasn't a case. Is she had being pinned to the wall? Yes, and that's blackmailing. Is he had forced her to do it at the time of blackmailing? No. So, it's not a rape by it's definition. It looks like I'm playing mental gymnastic, because I disagree with calling it a rape, so, let's go through some points. (though, before that I have to state that I strongly against any kind of duress, sexual or not, done by whoever to whoever).Well then, my two general points:
1. She had time to think. Yes, it is a duress, but she was not physically or imminently-time restrained.
2. She has more authority and a valuable specialist, as well as Harry. This whole situation could've been resolved with whatever proccesses they use at their company, join a commission or whatever.
But I think I we really want to get an argumented anwser, we should ask some lawer.
Let's take a hypothetical: an attractive woman walks by a construction site and a big, burly, sweaty worker whistles in her direction (just whistles because he doesn't use articulate language). She sees this as (unwanted) sexual advances/sexual harassment and because the dude is big, she subjectively feels threatened and under duress so she goes home, has a shower and a sleep and the next day goes to the worker and sucks him off. Afterwards we (apparently) call the whole interaction rape: she subjectively felt under duress, she wouldn't have gone towards him without the whistle and so on. Is that rape or an excuse to be slutty ? Aren't we taking away from the true impact of real threat, real duress and real rape when applying it to a situation when the "victim" was actually a willing part who just had to keep up the appearances (for us -that she's pure and demure, for herself - that she is actually not slutty, hence the crying) ? Isn't that just mental gymnastics to justify shitty behavior ?Duress is subjective. It doesn't matter if the thing causing the duress is credible or not. All that matters is that the victim believes it to be credible.
Yes, but the only reason she made that decision was because she was...wait for it... under duress. Without Luca's threat, Laura never would have 'made the decision' to have sex with him. She only did it because she felt threatened. Fear is the polar opposite of consent, therefore she was raped.
Funny you mention the word "consent".Do you understand what is consent?
Your example fails because there is no request or situation where the victim would be required for sexual service.Let's take a hypothetical: an attractive woman walks by a construction site and a big, burly, sweaty worker whistles in her direction (just whistles because he doesn't use articulate language). She sees this as (unwanted) sexual advances/sexual harassment and because the dude is big, she subjectively feels threatened and under duress so she goes to him and sucks him off. Afterwards we (apparently) call the whole interaction rape: she subjectively felt under duress, she wouldn't have gone towards him without the whistle and so on. Is that rape or an excuse to be slutty ? Aren't we taking away from the true impact of real threat, real duress and real rape when applying it to a situation when the "victim" was actually a willing part who just had to keep up the appearances ? Isn't that just mental gymnastics to justify shitty behavior ?
... What ? She does have her own share of blame in the story but that does not change the fact that Luca raped her.Funny you mention the word "consent".
Did Harry gave consent to be part of an open relationship? Did Harry gave consent to be exposed to STDs ? After all, he was the one who the blackmail would have impacted.
I's say not: Laura took the consent from Harry and gave it to Luca. The rest is just mental gymnastics.
...So let me get this straight.It's was not even a duress. She was not threatened. Why would I even argue on that topic.
Sure, she's under duress if she really believed the whistling was a threat to her...But she's also clearly insane for believing the whistling was a threat to her.Let's take a hypothetical: an attractive woman walks by a construction site and a big, burly, sweaty worker whistles in her direction (just whistles because he doesn't use articulate language). She sees this as (unwanted) sexual advances/sexual harassment and because the dude is big, she subjectively feels threatened and under duress so she goes home, has a shower and a sleep and the next day goes to the worker and sucks him off. Afterwards we (apparently) call the whole interaction rape: she subjectively felt under duress, she wouldn't have gone towards him without the whistle and so on. Is that rape or an excuse to be slutty ? Aren't we taking away from the true impact of real threat, real duress and real rape when applying it to a situation when the "victim" was actually a willing part who just had to keep up the appearances (for us -that she's pure and demure, for herself - that she is actually not slutty, hence the crying) ? Isn't that just mental gymnastics to justify shitty behavior ?
And that's is a completely different topic. That's an another case and actually a whole another article of criminal code. It's now not a blackmail, but a threat of violence/death. Surely you can diffirentiate threat by violence and threat to tell someone that your boyfriend is a jerk, right?...So let me get this straight.
If I tell you that I'm going to hurt someone you care about unless you do something for me, you're saying that I'm not threatening you?
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word 'hurt' because seem to have latched on to it in the most literal sense possible. Allow me to rephrase:And that's is a completely different topic. That's an another case and actually a whole another article of criminal code. It's now not a blackmail, but a threat of violence/death. Surely you can diffirentiate threat by violence and threat to tell someone that your boyfriend is a jerk, right?
Because that is exactly what Luca was doing to Laura. He was threatening to do harm to Harry (frame him and possibly send him to prison). He was threatening her.If I tell you that I'm going to DO HARM someone you care about unless you do something for me, you're saying that I'm not threatening you?
And here I thought you were only capable of shitposts.Folks like to counter rape by coercion and rape by deception with slippery slope arguments that normally fall into a pit of argumentum ad absurdum but the fact remains that consent as a concept is distinct from mere acquiescence. Because someone acquiesces to sex they have not consented. Consent must be an affirmation of willingness, not an ability to comply. Laura doesn't even fully acquiesce, merely cooperates under protest. Just because Luca expresses incredulity when Laura enjoys sex doesn't mean that we must agree with him. The person who is raped by coercion's enjoyment of sexual intercourse is irrelevant to consent, which cannot be given ex post facto. Oh, and only Laura gets to decide whether what happens to her body is consensual or not and her relationship status is also an irrelevance. If we are to agree with Luca that Laura wasn't raped when she clearly stated she was (would not consent and feels that she is given no other viable option but to cooperate) means that we are adopting a deeply depraved point of view when it comes to the very concept of human agency and bodily autonomy.
I do say all this with the firm opinion that Laura had dozens of better options than to give in to Luca's blackmail. The most viable being living with the consequences of letting him do what he was threatening to do. The "Go ahead, make my day" school of conflict resolution. But then the game wouldn't happen.