VN Ren'Py Completed A Promise Best Left Unkept [Bonus S2 Ep 9-11] [Hangover Cat]

[Revo]

Was assuming that Aya's path, which is part of Laura's route, would contribute to the "good" end that is in the ending list before moving on to her full corruption route

From what I know from this jungle, originally hangover cat didn't have a "good ending" planned out on the story, but decided to created after multiple people voting on it. Here is something to keep in mind, not luca but also hangover cat have a hate boner for harry (throw me some shame lol), so the good ending might not be for harry, it might be for aya or laura, most likely laura since she is technically the main protagonist and harry is the secondary protagonist that is moving along the ride (that's why he never got any action after laura started "hooking up" with luka) and most of the scenes are laura based. That's just me speculating since most ending feel from the perspective of laura rather than harry

 

[Sumatra 3D]

"The truth hurts your eyes!" - there is such an expression.

Forget, they want to see Laura as a thoughtless whore and Harry, and Harry must suffer more and more... They like it, they don't want to see another perspective - a normal perspective! Here, for the most part of them, they enjoy humiliation and sadism - that's it!

I haven't even said anything inflammatory here. My review was perfectly fair. This ktez guy just gets triggered over anything. Imagine going to my own VN to grab a screenshot only to not even know what it's about

 

[Terix3]

let me step in for a sec and see if I can interpret what he is saying before you guys start calling each other names. what you are trying to say regardless of what you choose the answer is going to be the same, right?

so if I use your example in his way of thinking, (example) you are harry killer, you have three options, the poison, the knife, and the gun, each lead to a different out come, and each of those options you get the choice if you want to slowly kill him or kill him right up. For the knife, you get the option to slit his throat, cut chunks of his skin, or cut part of his body (such as fingers, toes, tongue, etc.). For the gun, you can shot him in his heart or head, you can use him as a target practice and he is the target, or whenever you shot a part of his body you burn him using the muzzle of the gun. For the poison, you can inject the victim using a syring, you can cook something and add the poison, so the victim can eat, you can also fill the room with poisonous gas..... I'll stop adding things before someone call me a psychopath lol

What I think he is referring, is not about the ending, harry is fucked either way, is how the options branch out to have a different outcome on the story and those branches have their own options that add more story to the game. I could be wrong but I think that's what he meant to say when the options are essentially pointless

No, it is not what he said. Also my point was proving that the choices do matter.

What you are failing to understand is that he doesn't care if Harry wins or loses. What bothers him is that when you are given two opposite choices that the result is the exact same thing making the choice not matter. He's not crying for a Harry win. He just wants his choice to matter.

If you are about to make dinner and you have to decide between pork, beef or chicken when you do you can't have all three dishes end up Hamburger. You have distinctly different options yet in APBLU the end result no matter what you choose ends up Harry loses, Luca wins and Laura falls. Just because that result gets achieved slightly differently on different paths doesn't change the final outcome at all. Harry has lost, Luca has won and Laura has fallen.

Its the appearance of choice and yet the choices you make have no real impact on the outcome. What bothers him, and he's not alone is that no matter what it's a predetermined outcome. If that was the plan from the beginning then why bother having multiple paths in the first place. When choice was introduced different outcomes should have been the result and yet it stays a constant of Harry loses, Luca wins, Laura falls. Defend it all you want but it doesn't change the fact that he is not wrong and entitled to his honest opinion. It was never about not getting what he wanted, nor was his review an attempt at revenge because all he asked for was simple common sense. 1+1, 1+2, 1+3 equal 2,3&4 respectively they don't all come out to 2 yet that is what has happened here. The disappointment comes from the missed opportunity to take advantage of the possibilities with the story. Instead it turned into must torture Harry harder just for the sake of it. But sure must be because he hates NTR, keep thinking that if it helps you sleep at night. You're completely wrong but enjoy your delusions all you want.

Read again what he said because because at no point he suggests that Harry should lose in different way, he is suggesting that Harry should win or that Luca should lose (so again presumably Harry wins).
The point of choices is not to have different outcome but to have different ways of achieving the outcome.
The disappointment comes from nothing more then one false expectation, he wants this game to be a BADIK but with NTR. like what???
And it is revenge review because he has no history of reviewing NTR games from what i can tell. He didn't even review game he made fanfic for yet here he has extensive review- makes you wonder eh ?

You're showing Erik why exactly? You do realize Erik is not the main character and he is a douche who ntrs the MC in my fanmade VN right? Erik isn't even my character either. He is the main antagonist from Big Brother.

This just proves you don't even know what you're talking about. Power Vacuum is an entirely different beast with a different structure. In Power Vacuum, it's a LINEAR story and the only "choices" you are given are the canon choice which advances the story and the obviously wrong choice which just plays out a what if scenario as a bad end with ntr. APBLU is a BRANCHING story where your choices are supposed to lead to different outcomes but they don't.

The other thread you linked contains more in depth discussions on the flaws in APBLU. You're acting like it's some hidden thread. There is nothing Slappy wrote there that he didn't already write here before he got kicked from this thread, same with me and rhcp. It's just that Slappy has no filter and is not as diplomatic/nice when it comes to sharing his opinions. I did nearly unsub but unfortunately I had to stay subbed due to reasons I won't divulge to you. I have made my feelings clear on the matter multiple times. You're just upset that your precious VN is getting critiqued and you call it hating and trolling. Imagine getting this triggered over a 2 star review.

And exactly where did you read that the choices in APBLU are supposed to lead to different outcomes?
Also nice change of song because previously you claimed that choices doesn't matter and you didn't follow with reply to my argument to it.

 

[Sumatra 3D]

No, it is not what he said. Also my point was proving that the choices do matter.

Read again what he said because because at no point he suggests that Harry should lose in different way, he is suggesting that Harry should win or that Luca should lose (so again presumably Harry wins).
The point of choices is not to have different outcome but to have different ways of achieving the outcome.
The disappointment comes from nothing more then one false expectation, he wants this game to be a BADIK but with NTR. like what???
And it is revenge review because he has no history of reviewing NTR games from what i can tell. He didn't even review game he made fanfic for yet here he has extensive review- makes you wonder eh ?

"This guy has never written a review for a VN like this before so let me get mad at his first review because it's not what in line with how I see the VN" <-- This is you

And exactly where did you read that the choices in APBLU are supposed to lead to different outcomes?
Also nice change of song because previously you claimed that choices doesn't matter and you didn't follow with reply to my argument to it.

So...your argument is that HC never explicitly stated that choices will lead to different outcomes? Lmao. Oh my god. Dude, what's the point of making a VISUAL NOVEL where not only does the story not matter (these are HC's own words) but the choices and branching don't as well? This makes no sense and it also proves my point. You're making no sense. Also, your analogy is flawed.

A more accurate analogy is if the VN was called "Harry is in Danger" and you had several choices:
- Keep Harry close to you at home
- Hire an armed escort for him
- Let him go out but warn him and make him wear a bulletproof vest
- Stay quiet and don't do anything

According to your logic, if Harry dies in every path it's okay because it's different since his death plays out differently everytime. My argument is that none of those choices matter because in the end, you can't save Harry and he dies anyway. The sensible way to implement such a system will be to have choices lead to different outcomes where he dies, survives but is wounded, survives unscathed etc. Have you ever seen a game or VN do what HC is doing and if so, were they free of criticism? Are you even thinking at all?

 

[Deleted member 5752620]

Imagine being a game developer and coming to other game developers threads to shit on their productions.

Highest level of retardation + absolutely zero class whatsoever. I'll make sure to avoid.

 

[Sumatra 3D]

No, it is not what he said. Also my point was proving that the choices do matter.

Read again what he said because because at no point he suggests that Harry should lose in different way, he is suggesting that Harry should win or that Luca should lose (so again presumably Harry wins).
The point of choices is not to have different outcome but to have different ways of achieving the outcome.
The disappointment comes from nothing more then one false expectation, he wants this game to be a BADIK but with NTR. like what???
And it is revenge review because he has no history of reviewing NTR games from what i can tell. He didn't even review game he made fanfic for yet here he has extensive review- makes you wonder eh ?


And exactly where did you read that the choices in APBLU are supposed to lead to different outcomes?
Also nice change of song because previously you claimed that choices doesn't matter and you didn't follow with reply to my argument to it.

p.s. I'm saying choice should matter. You're opposed to Harry beyond reason. "Harry should never win. You just want Harry to win". No I want Harry to have agency. He is completely clueless and helpless unless HC wants him to not be. Why is HC giving us options if they make no difference to Harry's situation. There could've been paths where Luca wins, Laura wins but leaves Harry anyway (not necessarily for Luca), Luca wins but Aya gets Harry in the end, Harry wins, Harry moves on etc. A well written branching story will have this. HC presented APBLU as a branching story when he introduced the choices and multiple endings/paths so having the same outcome every time is moronic.

The basis of your argument and the reason people like you and Ktez get upset is because this is your torture simulator. I don't know if you know a Harry in real life but you are so hung up on the torture, humiliation and over the top ntr that you don't care that core components of this VN don't make sense. Who's the unreasonable one here? Me or you?

 

[Sumatra 3D]

Imagine being a game developer and coming to other game developers threads to shit on their productions.

Highest level of retardation + absolutely zero class whatsoever. I'll make sure to avoid.

I've been playing this since before I became a dev and all I did was critique this VN and the fanboys lost their minds. I had this conversation months ago and dropped it. Ktez picked it back up because he didn't like my review. Blame him, not me.

 

[Terix3]

"This guy has never written a review for a VN like this before so let me get mad at his first review because it's not what in line with how I see the VN" <-- This is you

Thanks for proving my point

So...your argument is that HC never explicitly stated that choices will lead to different outcomes? Lmao. Oh my god. Dude, what's the point of making a VISUAL NOVEL where not only does the story not matter (these are HC's own words) but the choices and branching don't as well? This makes no sense and it also proves my point. You're making no sense. Also, your analogy is flawed.

A more accurate analogy is if the VN was called "Harry is in Danger" and you had several choices:
- Keep Harry close to you at home
- Hire an armed escort for him
- Let him go out but warn him and make him wear a bulletproof vest
- Stay quiet and don't do anything

According to your logic, if Harry dies in every path it's okay because it's different since his death plays out differently everytime. My argument is that none of those choices matter because in the end, you can't save Harry and he dies anyway. The sensible way to implement such a system will be to have choices lead to different outcomes where he dies, survives but is wounded, survives unscathed etc. Have you ever seen a game or VNdo what HC is doing and if so, were they free of criticism. Are you even thinking at all?

What a nonsense. You don't understand the difference in appeal between the routes do you? I tried to show the point of choices in my example but you didn't understand even that :/

There are but none has as good story as this one so generally people don't engage in discussion over story in them but focus on gameplay/art/development problems.

p.s. I'm saying choice should matter. You're opposed to Harry beyond reason. "Harry should never win. You just want Harry to win". No I want Harry to have agency. He is completely clueless and helpless unless HC wants him to not be. Why is HC giving us options if they make no difference to Harry's situation. There could've been paths where Luca wins, Laura wins but leaves Harry anyway (not necessarily for Luca), Luca wins but Aya gets Harry in the end, Harry wins, Harry moves on etc. A well written branching story will have this. HC presented APBLU as a branching story when he introduced the choices and multiple endings/paths so having the same outcome every time is moronic.

The basis of your argument and the reason people like you and Ktez get upset is because this is your torture simulator. I don't know if you know a Harry in real life but you are so hung up on the torture, humiliation and over the top ntr that you don't care that core components of this VN don't make sense. Who's the unreasonable one here? Me or you?

Am I now? You see I don't care about Harry at all, I'm interested in Laura. I would love for Laura to go turbo slut mode and free herself from Luca. But i respect the fact that is beyond what HC envisions. I judge game for what it is not what I would like it to be.
So about being unreasonable ... yea it's you.

 

[Sumatra 3D]

Lmao

Thanks for proving my point


What a nonsense. You don't understand the difference in appeal between the routes do you? I tried to show the point of choices in my example but you didn't understand even that :/

There are but none has as good story as this one so generally people don't engage in discussion over story in them but focus on gameplay/art/development problems.

Am I now? You see I don't care about Harry at all, I'm interested in Laura. I would love for Laura to go turbo slut mode and free herself from Luca. But i respect the fact that is beyond what HC envisions. I judge game for what it is not what I would like it to be.
So about being unreasonable ... yea it's you.

Lmao, Just as I thought. No logic, no reason, no sense whatsoever. I've written enough on this issue that anyone who reads it knows my stance. The review is staying up. I'm not deleting an honest review to please fanboys. Talking to people like you and ktez is like playing chess with a pigeon because you don't seem to understand simple things.

Word of advice, don't fanboy so hard that you're unreasonable and get triggered over reviews. Not only will it make you look bad, you might give the rest of the fans in the community a bad rep too.

Anyway, this is a waste of my time.

 

[desmosome]

Ya, I like having different routes for different types of NTR scenarios in an NTR game. Imagine that. What kinda braindead people continue to whine for like 100 pages about a game that they supposedly hate?

 

[LynnVII]

Excellent work, and I'm looking forward to seeing the full game on STEAM

 

[Terix3]

I've written enough on this issue that anyone who reads it knows my stance. The review is staying up. I'm not deleting an honest review to please fanboys.

Maybe if you want your review to taken as honest write one that is honest?
I do agree that you have written enough for anyone to understand root of your problem.

...
I'm waiting for the Good, Hero and Aya endings but it'll be a while before they are developed so there's that.

I usually don't care about MCs in NTR but Harry is a legit good dude so Laura pisses me off.

At this point, I feel no sympathy for Laura and she can go fuck herself. If she wasn't so hot, I probably wouldn't fap to her scenes. She's just so irritating now.

In real life, Harry would not be losing out on anything. He is attractive, successful and great enough for hot women to fall for and chase while Luca relies on blackmail to get laid. Laura on the other hand just gave up a great guy and is possibly pregnant for a douche.

I know people like Harry, Luca and Laura in real life....

The game made you so mad that you made multiple posts about how you hate Laura and how Harry should realize he is cucked. You compare the characters to people you know in real life. Say it could have been a BADIK of NTR.
2/5 BTW.

Agreed. This is why I have a Love/Hate relationship with NTR. The best ones usually have great art. Most times I don't give a shit about the MC getting screwed over (I usually identify more with the antagonist doing the cucking) and there are some with decent writing. It's a guilty pleasure at this point. I guess I just feel a bit strongly for APBLU because I was Harry a few years ago without the obvious, over the top scenes like the video call and what not.

... I'm sorry for you. Maybe playing hard NTR games is not the best idea? You know Netori is not part of NTR family , very different appeal people that like netori hate NTR most of the time. Also netori games here are not tagged with NTR..

 

[Sumatra 3D]

Maybe if you want your review to taken as honest write one that is honest?
I do agree that you have written enough for anyone to understand root of your problem.



The game made you so mad that you made multiple posts about how you hate Laura and how Harry should realize he is cucked. You compare the characters to people you know in real life. Say it could have been a BADIK of NTR.
2/5 BTW.

Stop trying to extend the conversation my guy. You have no argument so now you're just digging up comments that you think help your case.

p.s. I mentioned BaDIK as an example of a well written branching story. When I said it COULD have been like BaDIK I meant it COULD have been a well written branching story but with ntr elements. Just because BaDIK uses 3D daz models and APBLU uses 2D drawn hentai art doesn't mean there can be no comparison. You're just being intentionally obtuse because you think it's funny.

 

[Sumatra 3D]

Maybe if you want your review to taken as honest write one that is honest?
I do agree that you have written enough for anyone to understand root of your problem.



The game made you so mad that you made multiple posts about how you hate Laura and how Harry should realize he is cucked. You compare the characters to people you know in real life. Say it could have been a BADIK of NTR.
2/5 BTW.

... I'm sorry for you. Maybe playing hard NTR games is not the best idea? You know Netori is not really NTR and Netori games are not tagged with NTR. You are not into NTR if you are into Netori that is different thing.

Also, I find it funny that you can't refute any of my points in the posts where I clearly outline them so you pick up comments from when I was chatting with people back when we had just the normal path in some attempt to show...well I don't even know what you're trying to achieve by doing that.

Stop tagging me dude. You can't refute my points, yours make no sense. Now you're resorting to facebook levels of cringe by going around digging comments out of context in some attempt to win internet points. I've been playing ntr games for a long time and I also read NTR doujins. Stop consoling yourself by trying to claim I'm not a NTR fan just because APBLU has fallen out of favor with me.

 

[desmosome]

I mentioned BaDIK as an example of a well written branching story. When I said it COULD have been like BaDIK I meant it COULD have been a well written branching story but with ntr elements.

So BaDIK COULD have been a well written branching story but with NTR elements? And I COULD go and whine in that thread that it doesn't have an NTR route? And I COULD review bomb that game for not having an NTR route? Lol.

 

[Sumatra 3D]

So BaDIK COULD have been a well written branching story but with NTR elements? And I COULD go and whine in that thread that it doesn't have an NTR route? And I COULD review bomb that game for not having an NTR route? Lol.

Poor attempt at trolling. Trolling means you have no argument. Try again.

 

[desmosome]

Poor attempt at trolling. Trolling means you have no argument. Try again.

Why shouldn't BaDIK have the NTR route that I want? Seriously. Tell me why.

Edit:
Meh, since this guy didn't want to humor me in my attempt to walk him through the baby steps, I'll just get to the point.

Saying this game could have been like a BaDIK with NTR should mean that the reverse is also fair criticism in your mind. BaDIK is a branching story with a bunch of vanilla routes that are all "the same." This game is a branching story with a bunch of NTR routes that are all "the same." If having a bunch of NTR endings in an NTR game is a bad thing, what about having a bunch of vanilla routes in a vanilla game?

Like you have to have some next level entitlement to expect a dev that is predominantly interested in NTR scenarios to make a bunch of routes they don't feel like. In fact, bitching about the direction of the story in any game while coming back after every update is some unexplainable behavior. If you think the routes are all shit, you give your 2 cents and move on to something worth your time.

 

[ZagorTeNay]

Ehhh, he's kind of repeating same tune over and over. Jeez, give Harry a break. Or at least turn him into hell-bent-on-revenge-murdering-psychopath.
NTR-wise, game was best early to mid story, after that characters turned more into caricatures.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

so the good ending might not be for harry

We don't know yet and personally I don't really care, investing in a character's success after benefitting from their failures feels insincere. Aya's path will probably coincide with the "good" end and it seems unlikely that she'd quickly fall to Luca on Laura's route when she has her own dedicated one straight after. Basically, there is still hope for those who need it

 

[Revo]

No, it is not what he said. Also my point was proving that the choices do matter.

my bad, I thought maybe, I could be helpful in some way, but I guess I didn't or got the wrong guy. Either way, I need popcorn this drama is heating so quick that I can probably cook an egg lol. jokes aside, I try to be non biased, and if I came out as one, then I apologize