VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[yourmomma]

Sadly, I very much do agree with you. I can't in the past say there is too much going on and L&P needs to cut characters, then not be OK with the side jobs coming to an end.

I've said this before, the filthy route is Sophia with Dylan, and the lesbian route is Sophia with Ellie, and the good wife route is Sophia with Liam (swinging route). Every other character was there to help Sophia to the point she crossed the line with Dylan and Ellie. Sophia did that with Dylan in the last update and can say she already did that with Ellie in the scene with Julia at the pool. Yes, Sophia hasn't gone all the way with them but what she did do was significant.

Other characters can be tied in, like Sam and/or Zach with Dylan, Julia or Patricia with Ellie. They're certainly can be some crossover between routes but updates should always have Sophia with Liam, Ellie or Dylan.

There are some loose ends that need to be tidied up first and things come to a logical end, but the side jobs, Aiden tasks, and any more maid stuff need to all come to an end.

What are you talking about? Aiden's tasks were a key part of Sophia's corruption route. Then L&P decided to throw in, an "out" in several different ways and additional side stories to corrupt her rather than simply following through that arch. Which is a common theme with his story archs. L&P is just a scattered brained writer with no focus and it's obvious has no clue on how to seal the deal and has himself stuck in this constant build up loop. Building up anticipation is great, but eventually everyone needs a release or a conclusion.

 

[karleston]

View attachment 3032566​

simpSON

 

[Radoslaw Wolf]

simpSON

 

[kewlbigdan]

It's all how you read the title. If Dylan married Sophie then she would be "A wife and mother".
Given how it is being argued Sophie is "A wife and mother and sister and teacher and ....."
This game could easily been called "The Parker Family" and been more on topic.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

What are you talking about? Aiden's tasks were a key part of Sophia's corruption route. Then L&P decided to throw in, an "out" in several different ways and additional side stories to corrupt her rather than simply following through that arch. Which is a common theme with his story archs. L&P is just a scattered brained writer with no focus and it's obvious has no clue on how to seal the deal and has himself stuck in this constant build up loop. Building up anticipation is great, but eventually everyone needs a release or a conclusion.

That's not limited to just L&P. It's an epidemic with slow burn games, devs get stuck in a self defeating cycle in which they can't advance the game. The buildup is simultaneously too slow and too sudden. The erotic tension is so rooted in the tease that even well meaning devs can become overwhelmed and never pull the trigger. Instead, we get a nasty cycle in which painfully slow steps are adhered to out of a misplaced sense that corruption is a linear thing that follows a set schedule. But it gets to the point where it's so slow and something has to happen to jolt the story forward. Once a game reaches that point, I find that most begin to circle the drain. It will be one step forward- one step back in an update, then two steps forward- two steps back in the next update; and so on, because advancing the story in a meaningful way it a huge step but at the same time you need new content. The naive FMC will begin to take bigger swings in her corruption, but then will ultimately end the update asking herself "What have I done? Why did I do that? Why did I enjoy it? That's so wrong!" And there will always be some flimsy excuse that mitigates the actions of the updates; she was drunk or she was blackmailed, or the mood was "too" romantic, or it was her boss and she couldn't say no, or she felt guilty, blah blah blah.

At this point slow burn games aren't even worth getting invested in because they all follow the same pattern. Almost none have successfully transitioned from the sexually repressed first act, to the sexually open third act. Somewhere in Act 2 they all get bogged down. Even good devs, who have good intentions and aren't intentionally trying to milk the audience, get stuck. They get to Act 2, they've shown that the FMC wants sex, but she still can't openly give a blowjob...and you have to give a blowjob before you have sex because it's written in the rules! And once she gives a blowjob, she then has to do it one or two more times before she can swallow or deep throat, and you can't have sex until you deepthroat! And then, you can't have sex until you let a cock rub against you...but then you have to find a reason that she's in her underwear in front of the guy that SHE STILL INSISTS SHE CAN'T HAVE SEX with....

BLAH
BLAH
BLAH



At some point devs just need to let their characters have sex. Sometimes I wonder how sexually experienced these devs are because they treat sex like it's really complicated. You can still have a great story about corruption AND let your FMC have sex early in the game. I swear to you that it's possible.

 

[yourmomma]

That's not limited to just L&P. It's an epidemic with slow burn games, devs get stuck in a self defeating cycle in which they can't advance the game. The buildup is simultaneously too slow and too sudden. The erotic tension is so rooted in the tease that even well meaning devs can become overwhelmed and never pull the trigger. Instead, we get a nasty cycle in which painfully slow steps are adhered to out of a misplaced sense that corruption is a linear thing that follows a set schedule. But it gets to the point where it's so slow and something has to happen to jolt the story forward. Once a game reaches that point, I find that most begin to circle the drain. It will be one step forward- one step back in an update, then two steps forward- two steps back in the next update; and so on, because advancing the story in a meaningful way it a huge step but at the same time you need new content. The naive FMC will begin to take bigger swings in her corruption, but then will ultimately end the update asking herself "What have I done? Why did I do that? Why did I enjoy it? That's so wrong!" And there will always be some flimsy excuse that mitigates the actions of the updates; she was drunk or she was blackmailed, or the mood was "too" romantic, or it was her boss and she couldn't say no, or she felt guilty, blah blah blah.

At this point slow burn games aren't even worth getting invested in because they all follow the same pattern. Almost none have successfully transitioned from the sexually repressed first act, to the sexually open third act. Somewhere in Act 2 they all get bogged down. Even good devs, who have good intentions and aren't intentionally trying to milk the audience, get stuck. They get to Act 2, they've shown that the FMC wants sex, but she still can't openly give a blowjob...and you have to give a blowjob before you have sex because it's written in the rules! And once she gives a blowjob, she then has to do it one or two more times before she can swallow or deep throat, and you can't have sex until you deepthroat! And then, you can't have sex until you let a cock rub against you...but then you have to find a reason that she's in her underwear in front of the guy that SHE STILL INSISTS SHE CAN'T HAVE SEX with....

BLAH
BLAH
BLAH



At some point devs just need to let their characters have sex. Sometimes I wonder how sexually experienced these devs are because they treat sex like it's really complicated. You can still have a great story about corruption AND let your FMC have sex early in the game. I swear to you that it's possible.

Not going to disagree with any of this. I was hoping the other side stories were going to aid in her corruption. Which honestly would feel more natural and not strictly a one story linear arch.
That's why I thought Aiden's tasks were crucial. It was a perfect set up and could have anchored the other corruption archs. The motivation was there. Mom agrees to certain tasks to keep her son from getting beat up. The first couple of tasks seem relatively harmless, but begin opening the door for her desires to come out and be expressed. They push more boundaries each task. The side stories would have added to each level of corruption and helped her to feel like being more sexual was okay or comfortable. Then before she realizes it she's surrounded by opportunities and sexual desires and is okay with it. That's the natural progression of corruption. This dev and, like you mentioned, others, struggle with that and bringing it all home to a climax.

I've mentioned before some of these devs are clearly inexperienced with sex. So I'm in agreement there. Rarely have I been in a sexual encounter where both parties got naked and it ended with a hand job or blow job unless I was being lazy or selfish and if you really want to fuck someone at that point there is no " cool down " period. You're fucking and if everything went well you'll do it again on Tuesday.

 

[菊花献给党]

Let Sam fuck already!

Once Sophia stripped herself and stood in front of Sam..........

 

[ancienregimele]

At some point devs just need to let their characters have sex. Sometimes I wonder how sexually experienced these devs are because they treat sex like it's really complicated. You can still have a great story about corruption AND let your FMC have sex early in the game. I swear to you that it's possible.

That's hit the nail on the head. There's such an apparent lack of knowledge & experience of how sexual situations occur & progress that the audience is left with a 'score-card' of how far certain characters have progressed along the linear route to full penetrative sex. AWAM suffers from this to a ludicrous degree. When it comes to virtually impossible scenarios, I'm thinking particularly of the Amber/Dylan encounter, which I know was well received. That doesn't mean it would happen as it did but with porn logic dictating events, there'll probably be other encounters of a similar nature.

Speaking only for myself, I've seen so many HJs & BJs in 3D porn that they're no longer erotic, just annoying, with 'magic' sperm finding a way to land completely on the woman, usually right in her face. Anyone who has actual experience would show a different situation, unless the woman swallows everything, of course. I especially dislike the "take it bitch" variety of BJ. Those scenes speak of someone who's never had a BJ in his life, because by that stage of proceedings, what comes from the man's mouth should be guttural, meaningless, animal sounds, or a low-pitched scream.

What happened to unexpected encounters & spontaneity in 3D porn? Was it ever present? Oh, I was forgetting, Amber/Dylan. If that's the future for Dylan & a cast of teens, realism isn't just gone, it's been put in a tied sack, weighted down with several bricks & thrown in the canal, at an isolated spot.

 

[ancienregimele]

Once Sophia stripped herself and stood in front of Sam..........

Who then proceeded, with the woman of his dreams of many years, naked in front of him, to reach for his art materials & deliver a "know-it-all" lecture, while displaying a previously hidden drawing ability. Another example of a woeful lack of sexual awareness?, or just an excuse to let Dylan win the 'race?', c20 years from now. Whatever it was, from my POV, it destroyed any desire to continue playing the Sam route.

Now that I think about it in the light of AWAM morphing into a 'AWAM teen edition, What Dylan Did Next' & becoming its' own sequel in front of our eyes, perhaps I won't miss it as much as I might have done.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

That's hit the nail on the head. There's such an apparent lack of knowledge & experience of how sexual situations occur & progress that the audience is left with a 'score-card' of how far certain characters have progressed along the linear route to full penetrative sex. AWAM suffers from this to a ludicrous degree. When it comes to virtually impossible scenarios, I'm thinking particularly of the Amber/Dylan encounter, which I know was well received. That doesn't mean it would happen as it did but with porn logic dictating events, there'll probably be other encounters of a similar nature.

Speaking only for myself, I've seen so many HJs & BJs in 3D porn that they're no longer erotic, just annoying, with 'magic' sperm finding a way to land completely on the woman, usually right in her face. Anyone who has actual experience would show a different situation, unless the woman swallows everything, of course. I especially dislike the "take it bitch" variety of BJ. Those scenes speak of someone who's never had a BJ in his life, because by that stage of proceedings, what comes from the man's mouth should be guttural, meaningless, animal sounds, or a low-pitched scream.

What happened to unexpected encounters & spontaneity in 3D porn? Was it ever present? Oh, I was forgetting, Amber/Dylan. If that's the future for Dylan & a cast of teens, realism isn't just gone, it's been put in a tied sack, weighted down with several bricks & thrown in the canal, at an isolated spot.

Slow burn games are like the worst of both worlds. They embrace porn logic when its convenient but not enough to be fun. I don't need my porn game to be completely realistic, I just don't want it to be stupid. I'm ok with fantasy and with artistic license because otherwise porn can't exist. I thought the Dylan and Amber scene was fine, it was stupid but it was fun. It was sexy, it made no sense, but whatever, I just want to get off too. But the problem is that porn logic does have a logic behind it. So when you allow Dylan and Amber to get one another off under the table, then sex shouldn't be far behind it. But devs of slow burn games are inconsistent, "Oh, I can use porn logic here, but I can't use it over here." It's ok to take one step forward and let a side character get a hand job after years of waiting, but it isn't ok to like the FMC have sex. Nope, we still need painfully slow progress before that can happen.

It's almost as if the Devs don't think they can make an erotic sex scene, so they avoid it at all costs.

Who then proceeded, with the woman of his dreams of many years, naked in front of him, to reach for his art materials & deliver a "know-it-all" lecture, while displaying a previously hidden drawing ability. Another example of a woeful lack of sexual awareness?, or just an excuse to let Dylan win the 'race?', c20 years from now. Whatever it was, from my POV, it destroyed any desire to continue playing the Sam route.

Now that I think about it in the light of AWAM morphing into a 'AWAM teen edition, What Dylan Did Next' & becoming its' own sequel in front of our eyes, perhaps I won't miss it as much as I might have done.

Right. It was anti-erotic when Sam and Sophia didn't have sex. There were so many ways that scene could have gone that would have been sexy AND logical, but because of some half-brained idea of checking off boxes for progress we got something catagorically dumb. Like, that's just simply not how it works. The sexual nature of the moment is undeniable, porn logic was the ONLY LOGIC THAT MADE SENSE at that point. Have sex, have wild passionate sex, it's ok, it makes sense.

And I know that people will tell me, "Ginger, it's all about milking, you know this." And yeah, ok, there's definitely truth to that, but I really do think there's more to the story. I'm warming to the idea that these devs just don't know how to handle sex. A good milker wouldn't have written himself into a corner like that, unless they truly don't realize how sex happens.

 

[CSK92]

Theres more people Fucking with each other on this thread than in the game. LLLLUUUUULLLLZZZ

 

[ancienregimele]

Slow burn games are like the worst of both worlds. They embrace porn logic when its convenient but not enough to be fun. I don't need my porn game to be completely realistic, I just don't want it to be stupid. I'm ok with fantasy and with artistic license because otherwise porn can't exist. I thought the Dylan and Amber scene was fine, it was stupid but it was fun. It was sexy, it made no sense, but whatever, I just want to get off too. But the problem is that porn logic does have a logic behind it. So when you allow Dylan and Amber to get one another off under the table, then sex shouldn't be far behind it. But devs of slow burn games are inconsistent, "Oh, I can use porn logic here, but I can't use it over here." It's ok to take one step forward and let a side character get a hand job after years of waiting, but it isn't ok to like the FMC have sex. Nope, we still need painfully slow progress before that can happen.

It's almost as if the Devs don't think they can make an erotic sex scene, so they avoid it at all costs.

That Amber/Dylan scene could almost have worked for me but for the fact that her husband & son came in together & sat right in front of them. I said at the time they clearly weren't the kind of husband or brother that I'd encountered. Not only that but their entry would have killed, stone-dead, any arousal that a young, inexperienced boy, who has a sheltered life & needs his mother to teach him about girls & sex, would be feeling up to that point. As it would have done with a far more seasoned participant. Having them bring each other to climax in a co-ordinated way, with Dylan finding the right spot without looking & without an unusual sight or sound to arouse suspicions, might have been hilarious but because AWAM has gone on so long with little real sexual action, such scenes could use more thought within the script.

As things stand, it's obvious that L&P could create a render of a bottle of milk, call it Dylan or Sophia & fans would 'lap it up.'

 

[Notretsam]

I see people's points on Sam and Sophia's scene, I said back then that they should've had sex and Julia catches them. I saw the scene with Amber and Dylan and thought it was rather odd that happened but I laughed at it, so didn't care much about it.

Talking about things that didn't make any sense, I have some more.

The insta jump from catching the maid masturbating on your bed to the scene on the sofa, and willing to go to the door in your underwear when she asks you to is bizarre.

The fact Sophia went to Aiden's hangout a 2nd time and didn't leave right away when she saw all his friends there is weird, although it is a choice that is available but it should be the only choice. Sophia knows from the art class that she will be asked to do something in front of them, so no chance Sophia stick around.

There are certainly some things that don't make sense and some inconsistency, appears to me for a while now that L&P had too many ideas and crammed them all into one novel.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I see people's points on Sam and Sophia's scene, I said back then that they should've had sex and Julia catches them. I saw the scene with Amber and Dylan and thought it was rather odd that happened but I laughed at it, so didn't care much about it.

Talking about things that didn't make any sense, I have some more.

The insta jump from catching the maid masturbating on your bed to the scene on the sofa, and willing to go to the door in your underwear when she asks you to is bizarre.

The fact Sophia went to Aiden's hangout a 2nd time and didn't leave right away when she saw all his friends there is weird, although it is a choice that is available but it should be the only choice. Sophia knows from the art class that she will be asked to do something in front of them, so no chance Sophia stick around.

There are certainly some things that don't make sense and some inconsistency, appears to me for a while now that L&P had too many ideas and crammed them all into one novel.

It isn't just that he has too many ideas, it's that he doesn't seem to think them through. Sophia going to the alley can work, but not the way that it happened. I get worried about just two guys on a stoop, no woman on earth would do what she did. LP has lots of ideas, but his execution is clumsy.

 

[Notretsam]

It isn't just that he has too many ideas, it's that he doesn't seem to think them through. Sophia going to the alley can work, but not the way that it happened. I get worried about just two guys on a stoop, no woman on earth would do what she did. LP has lots of ideas, but his execution is clumsy.

I think his execution is clumsy because of having too many ideas, so basically you're right.

The alley can work and is actually a perfect way to bring Aiden's tasks to an end. I just don't see Sophia sticking around and I don't think it makes sense she model for the art class either, at some point but don't think she is ready right now in the story to do the modelling or go into the alley.

 

[yourmomma]

Who then proceeded, with the woman of his dreams of many years, naked in front of him, to reach for his art materials & deliver a "know-it-all" lecture, while displaying a previously hidden drawing ability. Another example of a woeful lack of sexual awareness?, or just an excuse to let Dylan win the 'race?', c20 years from now. Whatever it was, from my POV, it destroyed any desire to continue playing the Sam route.

Now that I think about it in the light of AWAM morphing into a 'AWAM teen edition, What Dylan Did Next' & becoming its' own sequel in front of our eyes, perhaps I won't miss it as much as I might have done.

That scene was so ridiculous. Rarely is a teenage male going to have that level of artistic skill, knowledge and self control when a gorgeous naked woman is standing in front of them. It's like Sam was possessed by a middle aged musician, with a minor in studio arts. Completely unrealistic. An adult woman willingly going into a teenage boy's room for cello lessons and agrees to get naked wants sex. She knows what's going on and knows what she wants.
Then other people pointing out the Dylan night club scene. He takes one martial arts class and suddenly he has the confidence of 1990's Jean Claude Vann Damme.

 

[rAmSiMaL]

IMHO art class is a masterpiece!

Aiden is asking Sophia to wear a leather outfit. She’s pissed off because all her curves are exposed but the boy here is concerned about her safety… He is driving a motorbike and the leather outfit protects her from getting injured. Also, he gives her a helmet so that she’s fully protected! Finally the motorbike ride itself is a dominant move and Sophia enjoys it…

At the art class she’s exposed without revealing her identity! They go to the art class where they meet ONLY Xavier and the professional artist. For both of them Sophia is just another model… Initially she wears the Athena dress which is not that much revealing and she likes it! Then she’s offered the option to wear the Aphrodite’s dress which is much more revealing… But she liked being exposed and her anonymity is still protected so, why not trying it… Initially she’s alone and gradually gets comfortable with the idea of being exposed! After that Ares comes in and her eyes go to his member. During the process she feels the dominance of her partner and she likes it.

It’s a mix of emotions that makes her corruption so beautiful and LP should invest in this type of tasks… Being exposed by keeping her anonymity is a great aphrodisiac!

 

[Sagf]

I'm hooked on the Amber path

 

[Sonny86]

I'd love to see how Sophia and Alyssa are going to progress!!!

 

[菊花献给党]

I'd love to see how Sophia and Alyssa are going to progress!!!

This may take more than a decade, unless the author publishes the game plot