VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.211] [Lust & Passion]

3.20 star(s) 482 Votes
Discussion Reviews (482)
GingerSweetGirl

GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
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I haven't played Fashion Business in a long time, but it really isn't comparable to AWAM. I can see why Fashion Business is popular, and I don't want to diminish its success, but it is rather generic. The last I played, the story was flimsy and only exists as an excuse for sex. And you know what? That's ok. The story wasn't necessarily "bad", but the game knows what it is, and it's a sex game. That is perfectly acceptable, and I hope the devs are able to grow as story tellers as the game progresses. But AWAM is really putting the emphasis on the story in ways that almost no other game does. That won't be to everyone's liking, and L&P has had difficulties at times, but the core of the game is the story.

Honestly, I think this thread would be a much happier place if there was a better relationship with L&P. I can't speak for the devs of Fashion Business, but from the other threads I follow none have anywhere near the sort of contentious relationship that L&P has with us. Everyone on both sides feels totally disrespected. We, including myself, have thrashed L&P and he has pushed back and been defensive. If the relationship were different I think people would look at the 5 month gaps a lot differently. They may not like the length of time between updates, but I think we would all reach an understanding.

This thread and the game is just a mess and it's all so disappointing because the foundation is sooooooo good.
 
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Sabertooth__

Sabertooth__

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Sep 23, 2020
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ViperDonkey said:
ofc not, I'm a fan of L&P's renders also but my point was quite simple: A guy with 50h of daz can make good enough quality renders in no time. I think it was about 18 renders in a couple of hours between making them and rendering them. What's the hold up for a guy with 15000 hours in daz, working 11h a day, to have a 5 render per day average?

Before I ever touched in Daz I thought the same as Bane. "These renders look fantastic so I'm guessing they take many hours making them." But then I went ahead and learned just a bit of Daz and there it is, it's all a sham. Not a surprise I must say.

That's all.
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Firstly, great for you that you were able to pick up on Daz in 50 hrs and make good renders. But just to let you know not everyone learns at your pace. You can look at the fan art thread itself. There are artists who have been doing fan art from before you and yet aren't as good as you.

Secondly with L&P's rig. Making renders will be a breeze. No one doubts that. The problem is he needs to imagine the whole scene too. It is not just making a scene for 20 renders. It is a scene of 200-300 renders ( a mini story ) and the corresponding dialogue to each render and then deciding if the dialogue can be written in a better way ( when I started writing that was my biggest concern ) and also thinking of all these erotic scenarios in a realistic way. Deciding which angles are best for a particular render. The biggest and most time consuming is thinking of how to reach the end of goal of the scene in a believable way. If the idea is that Ellie and Sophia makeout, how to write each and every line so that it is not rushed and there is an actual build-up to it while staying believable to the players. He doesn't have anyone to give him a critical opinion on his writing, he has ponder over it and decide for himself.

This part of the process is totally ignored by people here. 11 hrs a day does not mean he is infront of the pc creating scenes full time. He could be actually working on his pc 4-5 hrs only. Thinking of how to make the scene feel right is also part of the work.

Making renders and actually giving a flow to these renders with a story aren't the same thing. Your renders aren't even going to be critically judged by anyone. You can choose any angle, any narrative, any outfit, any environment and any scenario literally anything in your render and as long as it looks good people will praise you. You don't have to explain how things got to something in a believable way, all that matters is that the scene happens.

For L&P that does not work, his choice of outfits, angles, environment, scenario, everything is critically assessed here. Add to that his perfectionism. It will take time.
 
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jonnybravo11

jonnybravo11

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Apr 4, 2019
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Sabertooth__ said:
Add to that his perfectionism. It will take time.
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Totally agree with you on each point you made.
However there needs to be a balance between so called "timely delivery" of updates and also so called "perfection in story telling"(especially renders).
I loved his game from start. People say at that time his renders were worst according to his standards. But I still liked the game best at that moment. His story telling with variety of scenarios, depth in scene, dialogue and of course renders attracted me.
Too much time devotion on perfecting renders is appealing to most, but it comes with cost. IMO this along with many story lines side characters is ruining the charm from game. this is frustrating for people who are caught up with this game from long time.
this may differ from people to people. for instance, a person playing this game for first time after 7 more years of game development from now on with same quality and heftiness will find the game absolutely fantastic. but people who wait for 7 years will suffer with time.
If completed this game will be an epic.
my solution to this dilemma, if this could be said so, is that he should thin out storylines and add them after completing a thinner version of game. Another thing is compromising mildly on renders quality. People should support him to finish game faster and stop pulling his leg on each occasion they get.
lastly there is no perfection is renders. there are different artistic styles that may look attractive to some or most people. The most "perfect thing" that artist can do is make renders real world like.
 
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leg28

leg28

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Aug 15, 2018
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Sabertooth__ said:
I do play Fashion Business. And i always commend the Dev there for his insane Speed. He is the fastest. Those guys can literally make 2000 renders and 100+ animations in 45-50 days. But you can't compare them to L&P. They are a team, L&P is solo.

And on a very honest note, though I have no complaints regarding the update speed of Fashion Business. The story there has barely even progressed from episode 2 onwards. Including episode 3 there are around 35000 renders and still in terms actual story progression and character development Awam is far better.

They are dragging it out because the game is doing well. They don't get any rude comments because there is sex every update and the updates are every month. From a story point of view Awam is much much better.

The gameplay there has way too much grind. I literally fear losing my saves for that game cause I never will be able to play this right from the beginning again.
In general events in fashion business are also around 300-400 renders. But since a team manages it, it all goes smoothly. As I have said before, what L&P is doing requires a team not him alone.
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though i can agree on most of your objections regarding fb (fear of losing saves :ROFLMAO: ; i've been there), regarding charachter development i don't see awam's progress in that field. at least in last year or even two. collecting corruption, lesbian, affection points leads nowhere. we have so much internal dilemmas of mc, like lp is some kind of porn game ingmar bergman wannabee. but these dilemmas in latest updates are false, pretencious lamentation and futile, since i see no progress (it is important to stress that i'm playing 100% corruption path and my comments are reflecting charachter development on that path) in fact they are in service of prolonging game's life
regarding sex: fb ep1 also was sex free for mc, but then dev move on toward main issue: it is a porn game of corruption (as is awam too). there got to be sex. lp leads mc to paths that brings her near sex and then instead grand finale, moves her to next path... and here we go again. virtual blue balling. 2 years of sexfree porn game is acceptable (because as you said, good charachter building and story), but everything more is crazy. hell, even victorian romance novels are having more erotica. and that's bad since awam is porn game!
if you are combining above mentioned with his updating process and everything around awam it begins to look more like milking business than creators passion towards details and perfectionism.
 
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momojean

Member
Sep 15, 2017
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Sabertooth__ said:
I do play Fashion Business. And i always commend the Dev there for his insane Speed. He is the fastest. Those guys can literally make 2000 renders and 100+ animations in 45-50 days. But you can't compare them to L&P. They are a team, L&P is solo.

And on a very honest note, though I have no complaints regarding the update speed of Fashion Business. The story there has barely even progressed from episode 2 onwards. Including episode 3 there are around 35000 renders and still in terms actual story progression and character development Awam is far better.

They are dragging it out because the game is doing well. They don't get any rude comments because there is sex every update and the updates are every month. From a story point of view Awam is much much better.

The gameplay there has way too much grind. I literally fear losing my saves for that game cause I never will be able to play this right from the beginning again.
In general events in fashion business are also around 300-400 renders. But since a team manages it, it all goes smoothly. As I have said before, what L&P is doing requires a team not him alone.
Click to expand...





you talk about the fact that FB is a team when L&P works alone as to justify the fact that the first produces 10 times more than the last.
No one is stopping L&P from building a team and taking the game to a whole new level if not greed, making the game last forever and most importantly the fear that people will find out about its miserable mechanics and lies that make the game is likely to end in 25 years.

You find it logical that a dev clearly sees that his silly porn game is going to consume half of his life and he continues to do nothing to fix it when there are plenty of solutions available to him as simple as building a team? ( and please don't take me out of the story of perfectionism because I can prove to you that, even if he does a good job, there are also plenty of times when he falls into mediocrity. You are going to tell me that he is human and that he could be wrong? I totally agree. So stop talking about this perfectionism thing) better yet, all of his decisions tend to make it last longer.


In fact I fully understand that L&P is giving us all kinds of pretext given that his goal is to ensure that he has a comfortable income through this game for the next 20 years.

But what I do not understand is that people like you see clearly that they will certainly not see the end of it continue to defend him under the same pretext of perfectionism and his inability to work in a group. Are you really ready to follow this game and jump on the first one to criticize it for the next 20 years?

I believe you too see reality the way critics see it. Except that you are so committed to his defense that you no longer have the audacity to back down like many of his former defendants did.
 
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yangpro

yangpro

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Jan 11, 2019
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awam is a good game, but when updated, new characters appear and new events occur.
I don't think this is a bad thing, but what we want is progress between existing characters rather than new events.
In my opinion, it would be better for L&P to develop a story between existing characters rather than create a new story.
After that, I think that if we create a new character and a story, our dissatisfaction will go away.
 
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nexer

Forum Fanatic
Feb 5, 2019
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FIx it: :ROFLMAO:
Fixiit.png


Interestingly, DAZ triangulates all polygons when the base object has only polygons.

DAZ tris all poligons
Wall Dylan Bedroom.jpg

But outside DAZ
OutsideDAZ.png
 
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3.20 star(s) 482 Votes