VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.211] [Lust & Passion]

[GingerSweetGirl]

All this talk of too many characters, or a story that's too slow, just highlights the no-win scenario for fans of this game. What makes AWAM special (aside from the great art) is that it's a layered story. Too many games only focus in on the main/core characters, and that gets old really quickly. On paper, I think there's good sense behind how the story is paced because, at its best, it provides for a logical progression of Sophia's corruption. I think all of us can agree that we like that her corruption has been a gradual process. And part of that process is that she interacts with a wide cast of characters who all have their role to play in her corruption. It isn't just the same two characters, scene after scene, day after day, update after update. There's a real attempt to make her progress feel organic.

The real problem, the original sin, is that this game is simply too ambitious for one person. Even with diligent planning (which we know he doesn't do), this game cannot be completed in a reasonable time frame. Both the story, and its development, are too slow. Each update takes too long and advances the plot too little to really feel satisfying. But, if he were to cut content, and focus exclusively on the main characters, the game would lose a good deal of what makes it attractive. Sure, in the short-term I think a lot of people would be happy, and he may even make more money, but I think that approach would undermine what makes the game special.

People are tired of the slow burn, the constant delays to development, and the prospect of another decade before there's actual sex. Outside of building a mid-size team to develop the game alongside him, the only solution that would result in faster progress would be to cut content and characters. And while I do agree that cutting some characters/content could improve the game, I don't think it would be too long before you would make cuts that would detract from the game.

The long and short of it is that fans of AWAM are in a no-win situation because the game was not properly scaled to what one person can create in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[froufrou2019]

Says the guy who's been a member for almost 2 years in a forum that is dedicated to daz render porn games. Yes, hypocrisy at its finest.

Taking my comment out of context to call me a hypocrite is a bit dirty don't you think? I was simply making light fun of the loyal fans of this specific "game", I never dissed the subculture itself. Still waiting years for a rendered tit takes dedication, so I guess that's worth something...positive? maybe? Man you A Wife and Mother fans are something else, yeesh. Ok fine you win, the Shakespearian story of A Wife and Mother is Oscar worthy, it should be appreciated for it's unique and complex subject matter and for me or anyone else being curious about why there is no "action" in a porn VN after so many years is just ignorant.

 

[jamdan]

You can have games with a lot of characters, that isn't the main issue, although it is one.

It's that this game has a lot of characters + almost all of them have their own routes + several of them overlap. Either directly (like Dylan and Amber) or indirectly, by being pretty much the same thing. Like the 2 side-jobs and the blackmail paths. A lot of the characters also play the same role, like all of Ellie's friends.

That creates a situation where the amount of routes/branches keep multiplying the further along you go. To the point where it's just a tangled web of madness.

To the discussion on the last page about the story. One of the most important things for writing a story that real authors do is to edit and slim things down. One of Stephen Kings rules is the 10% rule. Which means when you finish a draft, go back over it and edit out 10% of it. That's why they always do multiple drafts. The entire Harry Potter series is a little over 1M words. This game probably has more words than the entire Harry Potter series. Or at least is getting pretty darn close.

The central plot in this story is Sophia's corruption. You can do that with 5 characters or 50. The number of characters doesn't correlate to how good the story is. There are plenty of harem games on here that have all the LI's be hollow husks that just exist for MC. And there are great games that have 3-5 LI's who all play a role, develop, and move the story along.

Obviously VN devs aren't professional authors. But if devs studied writing the same way they study art and animation, these games would be significantly better. And most of them would end up being shorter too.

 

[Deleted member 576]

I have to admit i am very excited for update .170.

Why?

Because after .170 there is nothing that interests me until pd 16. Which means i dont have to check this thread for the next 2 years.

 

[Sadowdark]

I have to admit i am very excited for update .170.

Why?

Because after .170 there is nothing that interests me until pd 16. Which means i dont have to check this thread for the next 2 years.

More like two years is a conservative estimate I think it will take longer.

 

[Sadowdark]

I think for L&P I have no problem with how first and second characters have sex. The problem arises in the case of the main character, Sophia, who is the most important. So her first sex scene will of course be delayed as much as possible as she knows his followers are mainly for Sophia,and they'll be waiting to pay and get nervous.

 

[Sabertooth__]

All this talk of too many characters, or a story that's too slow, just highlights the no-win scenario for fans of this game. What makes AWAM special (aside from the great art) is that it's a layered story. Too many games only focus in on the main/core characters, and that gets old really quickly. On paper, I think there's good sense behind how the story is paced because, at its best, it provides for a logical progression of Sophia's corruption. I think all of us can agree that we like that her corruption has been a gradual process. And part of that process is that she interacts with a wide cast of characters who all have their role to play in her corruption. It isn't just the same two characters, scene after scene, day after day, update after update. There's a real attempt to make her progress feel organic.

The real problem, the original sin, is that this game is simply too ambitious for one person. Even with diligent planning (which we know he doesn't do), this game cannot be completed in a reasonable time frame. Both the story, and its development, are too slow. Each update takes too long and advances the plot too little to really feel satisfying. But, if he were to cut content, and focus exclusively on the main characters, the game would lose a good deal of what makes it attractive. Sure, in the short-term I think a lot of people would be happy, and he may even make more money, but I think that approach would undermine what makes the game special.

People are tired of the slow burn, the constant delays to development, and the prospect of another decade before there's actual sex. Outside of building a mid-size team to develop the game alongside him, the only solution that would result in faster progress would be to cut content and characters. And while I do agree that cutting some characters/content could improve the game, I don't think it would be too long before you would make cuts that would detract from the game.

The long and short of it is that fans of AWAM are in a no-win situation because the game was not properly scaled to what one person can create in a reasonable timeframe.

That's what I tried to lay out before as well. The game is too big for one man. Even if this game were being developed by the fastest Devs atleast the ones i know of like DPC and DM it would still take them 6-7 years to complete the story from here on out assuming each day an average 2000 renders that L&P is moving towards. Big days like PD 16 and majority of future game days can potentially even be 3000 renders. Not to mention the visual quality will obviously not be as good as it is now.

This job is not for one man. If he had the capability then the novel's thought and scale is splendid. His vision is great, his capabilities not enough. Such creators can only wish for a patient fanbase. Which is almost impossible in L&P's case since he is essentially making a porn game.

The manga release format is similar to how these VNs are released. Majority mangas run for 10-15 yrs, some over 30 years. But there is a Mutua understanding in the community that this is how it is. In this VN sphere some deliver tons of stuff immediately, most don't do a slowburn and jump straight into action. The expectations are different in this community and L&P is literally going against the flow in this regard.

The only hope is for him to find an artist who can individually handle scenes without his involvement.

 

[lupogba6]

Progress Report Ver. 0.170.

30% - 25%
0% - 0%

View attachment 1952233

is moving
is moving quickly

 

[Hlextor]

That's what I tried to lay out before as well. The game is too big for one man. Even if this game were being developed by the fastest Devs atleast the ones i know of like DPC and DM it would still take them 6-7 years to complete the story from here on out assuming each day an average 2000 renders that L&P is moving towards. Big days like PD 16 and majority of future game days can potentially even be 3000 renders.

This job is not for one man. If he had the capability then the novel's thought and scale is splendid. His vision is great, his capabilities not enough. Such creators can only wish for a patient fanbase. Which is almost impossible in L&P's case since he is essentially making a porn game.

The manga release format is similar to how these VNs are released. Majority mangas run for 10-15 yrs, some over 30 years. But there is a Mutua understanding in the community that this is how it is. In this VN sphere some deliver tons of stuff immediately, most don't do a slowburn and jump straight into action. The expectations are different in this community and L&P is literally going against the flow in this regard.

The only hope is for him to find an artist who can individually handle scenes without his involvement.

The risk of a burnout at some point is unfortunately extremely high

 

[dolfe67]

The manga release format is similar to how these VNs are released. Majority mangas run for 10-15 yrs, some over 30 years. But there is a Mutua understanding in the community that this is how it is. In this VN sphere some deliver tons of stuff immediately, most don't do a slowburn and jump straight into action. The expectations are different in this community and L&P is literally going against the flow in this regard.

The difference is also that the story is moving very slow in AWAM. In the same period, manga have way more content.

And if I may compare AWAM to GGGB (a lot of paths in that game by a solo dev), the problem is not the story but the renders output. Ambitious stories like this by solo dev is way faster to tell with sprites instead of full renders for each step of characters.

 

[kamal1996]

can anyone tell me if there will b option between the nurse job with old man or the tutoring job. I m excited for the nursing job. will v0.170 will also include that or not. thnkq

 

[Alley_Cat]

All this talk of too many characters, or a story that's too slow, just highlights the no-win scenario for fans of this game. What makes AWAM special (aside from the great art) is that it's a layered story. Too many games only focus in on the main/core characters, and that gets old really quickly. On paper, I think there's good sense behind how the story is paced because, at its best, it provides for a logical progression of Sophia's corruption. I think all of us can agree that we like that her corruption has been a gradual process. And part of that process is that she interacts with a wide cast of characters who all have their role to play in her corruption. It isn't just the same two characters, scene after scene, day after day, update after update. There's a real attempt to make her progress feel organic.

The real problem, the original sin, is that this game is simply too ambitious for one person. Even with diligent planning (which we know he doesn't do), this game cannot be completed in a reasonable time frame. Both the story, and its development, are too slow. Each update takes too long and advances the plot too little to really feel satisfying. But, if he were to cut content, and focus exclusively on the main characters, the game would lose a good deal of what makes it attractive. Sure, in the short-term I think a lot of people would be happy, and he may even make more money, but I think that approach would undermine what makes the game special.

People are tired of the slow burn, the constant delays to development, and the prospect of another decade before there's actual sex. Outside of building a mid-size team to develop the game alongside him, the only solution that would result in faster progress would be to cut content and characters. And while I do agree that cutting some characters/content could improve the game, I don't think it would be too long before you would make cuts that would detract from the game.

The long and short of it is that fans of AWAM are in a no-win situation because the game was not properly scaled to what one person can create in a reasonable timeframe.

If keeping the uniqueness of the game and cutting characters/plots were mutually exclusive, but they're not. One of the reasons I dislike this PD so much is that it more than any we've seen so far has events that have nothing to do with Sophia. Any of Dylan's extra storylines like Christine, Amber, Emma etc could easily be cut and not detract from Sophia's corruption at all.

I'm even starting to question the likelihood of either the comfortable or uncomfortable solutions to Aiden's tasks will add anything to the Sophia/Dylan storyline, given that when I first started playing around the start of the tasks it was generally accepted that their entire point was to get Sophia debased enough for her to sleep with her son.

can anyone tell me if there will b option between the nurse job with old man or the tutoring job. I m excited for the nursing job. will v0.170 will also include that or not. thnkq

No first side job with the old gents in v.170. You'll have to wait for this time in PD14 for their next event.

 

[Deleted member 4535267]

Taking my comment out of context to call me a hypocrite is a bit dirty don't you think? I was simply making light fun of the loyal fans of this specific "game", I never dissed the subculture itself.

To start with, my message was also intented to be funny. I just stated the obvious with a funny tone and no, I didn't take your comment out of context. I'm truly sorry if I've offended you mate.

Man you A Wife and Mother fans are something else, yeesh. Ok fine you win, the Shakespearian story of A Wife and Mother is Oscar worthy, it should be appreciated for it's unique and complex subject matter and for me or anyone else being curious about why there is no "action" in a porn VN after so many years is just ignorant.

That's funny mate, placing me in the "fans catergory" for calling out your absurdity but if it gives you any comfort, I'm not. Also, I didn't know that to create adult VNs one has to write shakespear'ian level oscar worthy stories. Why don't you add quantum physics and thermodynamics in that list?

 

[PaxHadrian17]

The risk of a burnout at some point is unfortunately extremely high

I agree. I actually think it is worse than just burnout - L&P does not like to be criticized for his choices and he does not acknowledge the impact of technology changes over a development period that will exceed 20 years (given current progression).

Software changes, Renpy in particular, and updates will eventually force a player restart so that saves actually work and old saves will still allow you to enjoy favorite scenes from much earlier in the story. Whether these changes will eventually force a remaster to remain competitive with the AVN competition is unknown (does he acknowledge that he has created a story with too many paths to be well-managed by anything but a large, effectively organized and motivated, team?). What does the competition look like in 2025 or 2030 and does it pull significantly from the Patreon/Subscribestar support base of creators like L&P who will not or somehow cannot adapt to the need for a team to support development?

When AWAM began, there was no pressure to provide an AVN in higher def (720P) for example. In 10 years, we will be lucky to have 7 more playable days, without L&P feeling the need to upscale to something beyond 1080P, or fall behind the competition.

I don't know how easy or hard this will be, but it will take time, file size will increase and some ways to enjoy AWAM (like on a phone) will likely become harder as the download file size will marginalize devices not set up for higher GB downloads.

If he does not build an effective team, we are left with our current reality: All paths are reduced to a crawl, immersion is dead, and we can only enjoy some of the small revs the way we would enjoy one page from a chapter of a great novel, which is simply out of context with anything that might follow. Over the course of 5 years, we could get a great chapter to enjoy, but month by month, it will simply be a painful slog hoping for peeks at the future that will reveal the new story only marginally faster than the time it takes the earth to make a full revolution around the sun (I know - I could just say a year but it is more dramatic to say it this way ... -- remember, we are here for the comedy or the drama since we are Not getting daily peeks at the next rev.) Stepping down off my soap box... Who wants it now?

 

[Sadowdark]

can anyone tell me if there will b option between the nurse job with old man or the tutoring job. I m excited for the nursing job. will v0.170 will also include that or not. thnkq

You can only select one additional job

 

[Stephanie98]

i have all route on my exported save file

 

[Radoslaw Wolf]

This job is not for one man.

Definitely not. But the profit is.

The only hope is for him to find an artist who can individually handle scenes without his involvement.

For this to happen he'd need to get subsidies from his government to hire some interns for free.

 

[Sabertooth__]

The difference is also that the story is moving very slow in AWAM. In the same period, manga have way more content.

And if I may compare AWAM to GGGB (a lot of paths in that game by a solo dev), the problem is not the story but the renders output. Ambitious stories like this by solo dev is way faster to tell with sprites instead of full renders for each step of characters.

Trust me if this game used sprites i would have given up on it a long time ago. It is just not engaging enough for me.

 

[intrigan]

For this to happen he'd need to get subsidies from his government to hire some interns for free.

Are you really sure he's such a greedy son of a bitch ?))

 

[lockerxx]

Progress Report Ver. 0.170.

30% - 25%
0% - 0%

View attachment 1952233

it moves twice in the same day!!! still no new preview hey i am happy with Mrs myers opening the door to Sophie.