Ren'Py Completed After the Inferno [v1.0] [Classy Lemon]

[Lordofownworld]

It's been awhile, so I don't remember all the details but just read this, especially the bit under "additional spoilers".

Yup now I remember I got so called happy ending more felt like a jab like my real life u may have flings but no one actually loved u and ever will

 

[fitty543]

can someone make a mod that summarizes what the mc is thinking to himself. i got tired of reading 8 paragraphs of the mc thinking to himself every 30 seconds....i just couldnt do it anymore lol

 

[storm11051787]

I liked this game but I wish it was a bit longer. I would have liked an ending where I end up with the two elves

 

[The Senior Perv]

can someone make a mod that summarizes what the mc is thinking to himself. i got tired of reading 8 paragraphs of the mc thinking to himself every 30 seconds....i just couldnt do it anymore lol

Typical lazy F95 user.

 

[storm11051787]

Typical lazy F95 user.

So can you do it?

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

Typical lazy F95 user.

What part of visual novel do folks not get? It's specifically supposed to be at least somewhat text-heavy but with a lot of visuals to go along with it. "Waah, I gotsta do readin' 'n stuffs!" I get it, I get it. There's a teeny-tiny bit of sandbox so the VN label isn't on this game (not actually sandbox, BTW, but we won't get into that fiasco of F95's poor tagging system). That really doesn't change anything. Outside of that small part of the game, the entire thing plays like a visual novel. If they want less reading, they should try something not clearly made like a visual novel. There are plenty of those on this site as well.

 

[storm11051787]

What part of visual novel do folks not get? It's specifically supposed to be at least somewhat text-heavy but with a lot of visuals to go along with it. "Waah, I gotsta do readin' 'n stuffs!" I get it, I get it. There's a teeny-tiny bit of sandbox so the VN label isn't on this game (not actually sandbox, BTW, but we won't get into that fiasco of F95's poor tagging system). That really doesn't change anything. Outside of that small part of the game, the entire thing plays like a visual novel. If they want less reading, they should try something not clearly made like a visual novel. There are plenty of those on this site as well.

What does sandbox actually mean though? If it's just about freeroam than yeah this is a sandbox

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

What does sandbox actually mean though? If it's just about freeroam than yeah this is a sandbox

That's only what F95 classifies it as. Sandbox is actually where you can interact with the environment in meaningful ways — build things, break things, combine things, etc.: it's intended for a high level of creativity from the player. Note: Because of F95's site rules, I'm not going to mention any adult games on this site in my post.

SANDBOX EXAMPLES: Collecting materials from the environment (Minecraft) Creating and sharing your own games (Roblox) Meaningful interactions with the game environment itself, including destruction (Grand Theft Auto games) Locating and/or combining items to help you survive (Ark: Survival Evolved, The Long Dark, and many other freeroam survival games)

NOT INDICATIVE OF SANDBOX: Find hidden objects point-and-click (Mystery Case Files) Click on a map to go somewhere (this game) Click on boxes (like rooms) to travel (various games on this site) Mini-games found in a VN (QTEs, puzzle sliders, guiding a ball around a maze, etc.)

For the record, there are some actual sandbox games on this site; there just aren't nearly as many as there are with minor freeroam mechanics.

 

[storm11051787]

That's only what F95 classifies it as. Sandbox is actually where you can interact with the environment in meaningful ways — build things, break things, combine things, etc.: it's intended for a high level of creativity from the player. Note: Because of F95's site rules, I'm not going to mention any adult games on this site in my post.

SANDBOX EXAMPLES: Collecting materials from the environment (Minecraft) Creating and sharing your own games (Roblox) Meaningful interactions with the game environment itself, including destruction (Grand Theft Auto games) Locating and/or combining items to help you survive (Ark: Survival Evolved, The Long Dark, and many other freeroam survival games)

NOT INDICATIVE OF SANDBOX: Find hidden objects point-and-click (Mystery Case Files) Click on a map to go somewhere (this game) Click on boxes (like rooms) to travel (various games on this site) Mini-games found in a VN (QTEs, puzzle sliders, guiding a ball around a maze, etc.)

For the record, there are some actual sandbox games on this site; there just aren't nearly as many as there are with minor freeroam mechanics.

I'm not sure where you got that definition from but the first definition I got from google just said a sandbox game is any sort of game where the player is able to choose their own goals and activates in an open ended world.. Most of the definition I can find agree that finding and gathering stuff like minecraft isnt really required, it's essentially just any game that offers any level of freedom when it comes to gameplay and most of them list non linear as a potential qualifier. So non linear story telling + being able to move around the envoirment as you want seems to count as sandbox based on most definitions so this is a sandbox game. Suggesting that you have to interact with your envoirment in a meaningful way too narrow a definition and most sites don't seem to agree that is necessary. Simply just freedom of choice when it comes to goals rather than a defined objective the player is given.

 

[storm11051787]

Are you conveniently ignoring the part after that which Google also provides?

View attachment 5325100​

And you are incorrect: it's not only "any level of freedom". That's much too broad of a definition. Google even provides a couple of the same games I named as examples. You can also read

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that Wikipedia has on it for a further explanation (with linked sources, of course). Sandbox is specifically intended to allow the player creativity and not restrict actions. Having a map where you click to go somewhere both gives no creativity whatsoever and also heavily restricts what the player is allowed to do (click somewhere, exit the game, or rollback to before the freeroam screen).

Nothing in the map mode of this game is even remotely sandbox; it's exactly the same as the standard Ren'Py choice menu, but graphically represented instead. You could just as easily have a standard choice menu with "Visit the Market", "Go to the Inn", "Visit the Elves", etc. That is not a sandbox.

I don't see how the highlighed section doesn't fit what I just said. Choosing when and how you interact with characters in the envoirment IS letting the player freely interact with the envoriment. It doesn't mean that you have to gather resources for it to be a sandbox. For whatever reason you follow a very narrow definition of the term that not even your own source agrees with you on. I think the problem is you are looking at the examples and thinking it's a requirement to be exactly like that instead of looking at visual novels that are listed as examples. Like I said in most of the definition I can find just says sandbox games are any games that don't have well defined goals for the player. Most builder games like minecraft fit that because most of those games have no real goal other than allowing the player to experiment.



Fyi wikipedia agrees with me on this

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(plural

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1. (
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   deriving amusement from a range of
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   interactions or situations.

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A sandbox game is a

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with a gameplay element that provides players a great degree of

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to interact with, usually without any predetermined goal, or with a goal that the players set for themselves.


Point and click games usually don't count because the player is given a defined objective. A point and click game can still be considered a sandbox game though. Sandbox game is just about the choices the player is given, not about resource gathering

 

[storm11051787]

Correct. So how is it you still think this is a sandbox game? Where's the creativity in clicking where you go to talk to someone? Where is the lack of specific goal?

Because games with a goal require you to talk to x character to compete x objective which is all nessary for completing some sort of main quest. Sandbox visual novels like most of the site doesn't do that but instead gives optional non linear story telling that you can choose to peruse in any order that you choose too. The problem is not that sandbox games on this site do not fit that definition it's that you think what's offered simply isnt enough in most cases when really all it takes is the non linear story telling instead of forcing you to a specific path. There are games on this site labled as sandbox that arent really sandbox but those aren't sandbox mostly because the story progression is still completley linear. This having a bunch of optional stuff you can completely ignore while being able to move around a relatively small map as you want fits fine. Even if you replaced it when a ren'py screen on what choices you have it would still fit.

There is a predetermined goal in this

You don't really seem to understand what it's saying. It's not saying that a game needs no goal at all. No man's sky has a main quest but it's still considered a sandbox game. It's saying that those goals need to be very loosely defined with the player given freedom for how they interact with it. Most sandbox games in this site are sandbox because the love interests usually have completely individual independent storylines that can be done whenever the player wants or not at all. Instead of a visual novel where every event happens in a certain order.


Just because you thnk it's not creative enough doesn't mean it doesn't qualifies as one The definition I linked doesn't even talk about creativity it just talks about non linear story telling.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

Because games with a goal require you to talk to x character to compete x objective which is all nessary for completing some sort of main quest. Sandbox visual novels like most of the site doesn't do that but instead gives optional non linear story telling that you can choose to peruse in any order that you choose too. The problem is not that sandbox games on this site do not fit that definition it's that you think what's offered simply isnt enough in most cases when really all it takes is the non linear story telling instead of forcing you to a specific path. There are games on this site labled as sandbox that arent really sandbox but those aren't sandbox mostly because the story progression is still completley linear. This having a bunch of optional stuff you can completely ignore while being able to move around a relatively small map as you want fits fine. Even if you replaced it when a ren'py screen on what choices you have it would still fit.

Being non-linear is not the definition of a sandbox. Choosing an order in which to talk to someone is not "freely interacting"; it's picking an order and nothing more. Non-linear storytelling is not the only requirement for a sandbox. What a silly statement to make. By that definition, many visual novels already qualify: you don't accept certain characters as love interests = non-linear; visiting a character at the store vs. going to a party are mutually exclusive events = non-linear; a game that has multiple endings = non-linear. Having "a bunch of optional stuff you can completely ignore" is also found in many non-freeroam VNs; adding a map doesn't suddenly make something sandbox.

You don't really seem to understand what it's saying.

Sorry, but no. If anything, you don't seem to understand what it's saying, actually.

It's not saying that a game needs no goal at all. No man's sky has a main quest but it's still considered a sandbox game. It's saying that those goals need to be very loosely defined with the player given freedom for how they interact with it. Most sandbox games in this site are sandbox because the love interests usually have completely individual independent storylines that can be done whenever the player wants or not at all. Instead of a visual novel where every event happens in a certain order.

Again, you're making many false equivalencies. The type of goal setting in something like No Man's Sky is drastically different than choosing LI #1, then LI #8, then LI #5, and /or then avoiding other LIs or something. In that game, you can build bases how you want, explore a procedurally generated universe with different life forms on various (millions of, literally) worlds, and even has challenges you might have to endure. That's incredibly dissimilar to picking specific LIs, which is not creative; that's merely picking and choosing. You're not making anything; you're not destroying anything; you're not combining anything; you're not adjusting anything to some new purpose or for some unusual use. The SIMs games are sandbox; clicking an area to interact with someone there is not.

Just because you thnk it's not creative enough doesn't mean it doesn't qualifies as one The definition I linked doesn't even talk about creativity it just talks about non linear story telling.

Are you high? What you pasted into your previous post specifically mentions this:

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A sandbox game is a

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with a gameplay element that provides players a great degree of

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to interact with, usually without any predetermined goal, or with a goal that the players set for themselves.

I think we're done here. You just keep making up shit and then when I demonstrate how you're wrong and how your own "proof" contradicts your own points, you just insist that it doesn't. What you've cited and/or examples you've given objectively don't fit any of the points you've given. Agree to disagree; you think this is a sandbox game. In my opinion, this doesn't even remotely come close to the correct definition.

 

[storm11051787]

Being non-linear is not the definition of a sandbox

Buddy it's literally what the linked dictonary says

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   interactions or situations.

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This is not an opinion based thing. Just because you don't agree with this definition doesn't make it wrong. You can't just dismiss every definition that you disagree with.

I think we're done here. You just keep making up shit and then when I demonstrate how you're wrong and how your own "proof" contradicts your own points, you just insist that it doesn't.

You literally just completely ignored the link provided because it provided a definition you disagreed with while choosing to focus on something completely vague section of a seperate definition that mentions something like creativity. How do you define creativity? If you are clinging super hard on creativity then I can claim gta doesnt count because it's not as creative as minecraft. Like this is ridiculous

Are you high? What you pasted into your previous post specifically mentions this:

Omg. This is what i linked dude

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. Did you even click the link I provided?

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   interactions or situations.

I listed multiple definitions to show that the actually definition is really vague and not universally agreed on. The lack of a defined goal is the only thing most of them have in common. Like I said this definition linked doesn't mention anything about creativity at all. Agree to disagree is one thing but you outright ignored or didn't bother to read any of the information provided just so you could cherry pick the sections that you think agree with you

In my opinion, this doesn't even remotely come close to the correct definition.

Yeah and that's the actual problem here. You think your personal definition is the only one that matters and are willing to completely ignore any others. For whatever reason you are stuck in the mindset that sandbox means resource gathering when it actuality it just means a lack of limations and not much else. Rather than trying to funnel the player to specific goals. You don't need to make anything, you don't need to destroy anything. The fact you think crafting or building is a requirement to be a sandbox is utterly ridiculous

 

[colobancuz]

Buddy it's literally what the linked dictonary says

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This is not an opinion based thing. Just because you don't agree with this definition doesn't make it wrong. You can't just dismiss every definition that you disagree with.



You literally just completely ignored the link provided because it provided a definition you disagreed with while choosing to focus on something completely vague section of a seperate definition that mentions something like creativity. How do you define creativity? If you are clinging super hard on creativity then I can claim gta doesnt count because it's not as creative as minecraft. Like this is ridiculous



Omg. This is what i linked dude

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. Did you even click the link I provided?

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1. (
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   or specific
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   interactions or situations.

I listed multiple definitions to show that the actually definition is really vague and not universally agreed on. The lack of a defined goal is the only thing most of them have in common. Like I said this definition linked doesn't mention anything about creativity at all. Agree to disagree is one thing but you outright ignored or didn't bother to read any of the information provided just so you could cherry pick the sections that you think agree with you





Yeah and that's the actual problem here. You think your personal definition is the only one that matters and are willing to completely ignore any others. For whatever reason you are stuck in the mindset that sandbox means resource gathering when it actuality it just means a lack of limations and not much else. Rather than trying to funnel the player to specific goals

Have you even read these links yourself, or do you have a mental filter that removes everything from the text that doesn't fit your worldview? In that case, talking to you is pointless.

 

[storm11051787]

Have you even read these links yourself, or do you have a mental filter that removes everything from the text that doesn't fit your worldview? In that case, talking to you is pointless.

Did you literally not read the link provided

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   deriving amusement from a range of
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   interactions or situations.

This says nothing about crafting, this says nothing about buildings destroying ect. Literally the only thing it says is a lack of a specific goal and a large range of interactions. That's what the vast majority of the definitions say. The only universal thing on any of them is the lack of a specific goal. Reading isn't hard. What in this quote disagrees with anything i've said here?

 

[storm11051787]

Bro, first of all, I quoted your previous post. The text I highlighted was in your post. If you didn't copy-paste something correctly, that's a you problem.

This is not a good defense dude. I provided a link and copy pasted it then copied a pasted a seperate definition under said link. That means you A) ignored looking at the link all together and B) ignored half of what was quoted in order to cherry pick he part that you precieved as agreeing with you(which it doesn't even do it just provided a subjective standard and decided to act as though your subjective opinion was the definitive).

Even if you wanted to claim I didn't format it correctly you still would have had to ignore most of the information provided.

Why are you stuck on this point? I never said it "means resource gathering"; I said only that this was one example of sandbox. I even specifically mention meaningful interactions with the environment

I brought that up and you ignored it as well. How do you define "meaningful interactions with the environment"? You can't it's something that's completely subjective. Thats why literally not a single source I've seen said anything about that and when I asked you for your source you never provided one. Even if "meaningful interactions" was a requirement as a standard you saying that the interactions here are not meaningful enough to count is simply just your opinion. Not proof that it doesnt mean the definition. As I said before the main consistencies in every definition provided is a lack of restriction and a lack of well defined goals. Most of the games labled as sandbox on this site fit the definition of "meaningful interaction" by having multiple non linear storylines that are progressed by the player interacting with the environment.

Holy crap, you really are honed in on everything outside of your overly simple definition being wrong

You not agreeing with the definition does not make it wrong. Especially since unlike your source it's not even my own personal definition but one of several definitions that agree's with f95zone's ruling

If a child is playing in a sandbox, do they just tap a couple of places with their shovel and then crawl out to the place they tapped? No, they interact: draw lines to represent a river; build up a pile of sand to make a tower; later on, smash that very tower; add some water to make parts of the sandbox like a lake or something. The types of things that happen in actual, literal boxes full of sand in the real world are what give a video game sandbox its definition.

What a nonsense argument. So if a child doesn't have a shovel and pail and decides to instead sit in the box kicking sand the whole time that suddenly means they aren't sitting in a sand box?


You keep trying to force subjective opinions as fact and treat your personal standard as a universal one. And you can't just dismiss definitions that don't fit your standard.

Not to mention, in this game you do actually have a specific goal when interacting with different places on the map. You are wanting to talk to that specific person, and not only to forward something with a particular LI

Lets go back to examples already provided. Gta and NMS both have main quests, they both have missions with specific goals so why are. So is it about having goals or about having specific goals that the player is ourced into. Interacting with x love interest on the map is not a speciic goal. It's just something to do

Interacting with the map also forwards the main plot of the game: which is a specific goal.

Most of these interactions have nothing to do with the main quest

Not to mention, what "large range of interactions" is on the map in this game? There are only something like 5 places you can click: last time I checked, nobody considers 5 large in size.

Once more you're arguing over something completely subjective and deciding that it's a fact. A lot based on who? What standard are we comparing it too? how many more interactions do we need to have it be considered 2 more? 3 more? 4 more? If the game was exactly the same but had twice the amount of love interests would it suddenly count as a sandbox?

 

[Redd23]

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

View attachment 5326410

Just some "storm"-y weather, I guess. Someone only wants to argue, even though I had already moved on. I don't give a shit if they disagree with my opinion. But then when I say "agree to disagree" they won't let it go. That's OK. I'm putting the dumbass on Ignore so I don't have to hear the whining and selective quoting they always use in replies. Don't bother replying, storm11051787, other than to say "CookieMonster won't accept something-something, omits such-and-such, and always has to be right, something-something...." So you get to have the last word... or whatever. What an exhausting person. Seriously, get a life.

(I've also deleted 3 of my 5 posts because this has descended into argumentative back-and-forth. I only am keeping the very first where I give my examples to explain my initial point, and then the post I've linked above, so that it's not a dead link and to show I did actually try to drop this argument.)

 

[Radical_Dreamer]

This game was amazing. Holy hell, what a gem!