Cabin Fever

Engaged Member
Nov 23, 2018
3,161
5,219
I tested v0.17 (Windows) and downloaded it off this site. What you said isn't true. I have gotten a power or strength boost from swimming as an example. There are plenty others. If you still insist, I'll post screenshots.
I sure would like to see that screenshot, because I compiled that based on my gameplay and it has never failed me.

Keep in mind all those are repeatable basic "training" events, not one-off story advancement events.
 

BeWilder

Member
Game Developer
Jan 18, 2018
488
1,178
I reviewed this game a year ago and have some additional thoughts.

First, thank you for the new content! It really shines and is well done!

Warning: Some spoilers below

Pros
  • The skill system has been improved quite a bit.
  • The story keeps you guessing and is also largely about the agent's personal life.
  • The story no longer locks you into doing certain things all the time. The story is more relaxed with free days to do whatever you choose. The events are waiting for you and the player doesn't feel rushed!

Cons
  • The skill increases are too random. Some do not apply to the situation. I would prefer if the skills weren't chosen randomly. You can basically get any skill increase doing any activity so it is difficult to work on specific skills.
  • Some skills hardly ever get boosted such as subtlety and power.
  • There still aren't very many skill checks in the game (I only remember 2-3). I know it's a visual novel but all these skills you are building need to be integrated into the game. For example with the gun deal there could be many checks for agility, intelligence (with the acting), strength/power with knocking the guy to the floor, etc. The game really needs these skills integrated in much better. I don't mind failing in a game. There should be a small chance of failure throughout the game. The higher the skill the less chance you fail a skill check.
  • English is good but not great. There are plenty of misused words, misspelled words, and missing words throughout the dialog and text. You really need a native English speaker to review and update all the text for the game. I know a few players offered to help with this for free in the past and you've turned all of them down for some reason.
  • The game tries to hit too many fetishes. I was turned off with the grandpa content so I bypassed it. At least I had a choice in the matter. I wish I would have had the choice to kiss his granddaughter though instead of being forced to do it. I wish I would have had the choice to pull the trigger in the gun deal scene (didn't know if there was a bullet in the chamber or not).
  • The player is groped and treated like a sex object a lot in the game and the player almost always has to go along with it. I wish there was an option to move away or slap the offender in many cases. It is impossible for the player not to be a slut in this game. The player has no self-respect or standards.
  • Nearly all of the sex scenes involve BDSM to some degree. The player never really instigates the sex for the most part. In nearly every case the sex starts out somewhat forced and then once the player starts feeling pleasure it turns mutual. I love the BDSM content but it is overused in this game (my opinion of course). I recommend finding other clever ways to get the agent into sexual situations.
The game is a 4 out of 5 for me. I really enjoyed the new content! The writing is the best part of the game and the graphics are well done! I was pleasantly surprised with how much content you added since my first review.

If you want to turn this into a 5 star game fix all the cons above. I estimate that it would take a good three months to implement (I have some software development experience).

I modified my review from 3 stars to 4 stars and updated my review.
Hey there! Cheers for the kind words and the well thought out feedback for sure. Glad we could make such an impression and an experience.

Since you took the time to lay out all your thoughts on the game, I might as well give you some friendly rebuttal and chat through some of the concerns, maybe by the end we'll come to some new light on the game and be better for it? There's no harm in some good spirited discussion regardless.


Firstly, thank you for the points you made as Pros. I'll not go into them now as I'm long-winded enough and don't need to be kissing my own ass Sal style, but I do appreciate them being said. Maybe we'll get into them later.

The Cons:

- 1-3) I'll tackle these all at once, because in the end they all have the same underlying cause. The skill system is pretty much defunct. That's my impression on the matter anyway. It's from a time when I wasn't even on the project and the game was going to be something else... More about building an agent around a style, less about an (almost entirely) story driven VN. In fact, I think it was in v0.8 that I last got to use a skill check in the script, because by then the plan was to remove the skills bit from the game when we wrap up the content and complete the engine on our way to v1.0. Since we've not got all that much content left to add at this point, it's probably best we just wait to take them out after we are content complete rather than make people wait an update for more engine changes.

Long story short is that the skills are simply to be ignored after you get past Mission 1 and sadly these points are pretty moot. They are from a different iteration of the game before we were even beWilder. If we ever get to do another Agents of Heels series game, it may well be that it will be more inclusive of stat, the way this was going to be once (and like our game Noemi's Toscana Rebirth is), but that's a question for far in the future. Any more details and the full story on what may/may not happen with the stats will have to come from Unshi.


- 4) So, the English, huh? Well... I'm in two minds as to what you mean here. The simple bit first. The reason we don't have people here giving us the Native English version of the texts is because we have a native speaker. Me. English is my only language. Of course, I do make some mistakes (that'll happen with 1M words of text across the whole game) and I have odd phrasings at times, but the writing has picked up since I joined, I think we'll all agree. You can see the point at which the style changes actually, as the texts get longer and more in-depth, for better or worse.

Now... A large part of the game from the Start up to Mission 1 was written by Unshi who has English as a second language. These were serviceable, but did have some mistakes yeah. We call these Act 1 scenes and we are redoing them with my simple rewriting when we can (our last version added 9 more rewrites, now we've only got a handful left to do). If these are what you mean that need improving, we do so agree and we're on it!

Otherwise, short of a helping hand with fans pointing out where typos and errors are found so we can go back to whip up a fix on them, I'm not sure what needs to change. The game doesn't read like it's written by a non-English speaker in the latter half, does it?


- 5) Choices and fetishes. Yeah, we touch on a lot, but we do them well enough I like to think. As for choice, there is a lot. Most things can be avoided if you want via an open choice (such as the Monster and Cat) or you can get through it by being on an appropriate path (like Good Nat can solve Tim's problems without fucking him). The kiss with Kate is important though, and that kiss is a part of the story Kate has running in the background of both our games, not just AoH, so that's why you can't say no to it... but that scene does offer a choice of sex if I recall correctly. Still, maybe added choice would be a good thing, so it's something we will note for the future, sure.


- 6-7) These ones I think are the ones we disagree on most actually. Yes, a lot of the content involves Nat going from Good Agent to Corrupt though harassment that the infection takes control of. That's a little bit Cliche for FemProtage though, sure. We agree there. However, there are times you can be the harasser, where you can avoid sex and do things the right way, where you can be a bad ass and fight instead of fuck, and in the Bad Nat path you can kill off people and be the FemDom agent in charge. If we had the time and resources to do lots more options and paths, sure we would add more ways to do things, but with what we do have I think we provide a good balance of actively being a slut, being corrupted into a slut, and being outright powerful.

Still... One can always do better, so a proper discussion here on it's own conversation may be a good thing if you have specific suggestions, ideas and/or what ifs you'd like to talk about. That stuff can be fun to do too. Let us know with a holler, I'm sure people around here have a lot they think about on this front.



Anyways, I do hope that was an interesting read, and more importantly that it shows off some of our own internal thoughts and influences in how we make AoH. We've got plenty of games and ideas to go in the beWilderverse as time goes by, so its great to hear that people such as yourself care enough to write down some points to help us be better as we grow. I also hope I didn't come off as augmentative.

Now... I'll stop so we can digest and maybe even discuss more. Either way, thanks for stopping by and letting us know you enjoyed our premier work. It's all food for thought and for a good spirit!
 
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Hey there! Cheers for the kind words and the well thought out feedback for sure. Glad we could make such an impression and an experience.

Since you took the time to lay out all your thoughts on the game, I might as well give you some friendly rebuttal and chat through some of the concerns, maybe by the end we'll come to some new light on the game and be better for it? There's no harm in some good spirited discussion regardless.


Firstly, thank you for the points you made as Pros. I'll not go into them now as I'm long-winded enough and don't need to be kissing my own ass Sal style, but I do appreciate them being said. Maybe we'll get into them later.

The Cons:

- 1-3) I'll tackle these all at once, because in the end they all have the same underlying cause. The skill system is pretty much defunct. That's my impression on the matter anyway. It's from a time when I wasn't even on the project and the game was going to be something else... More about building an agent around a style, less about an (almost entirely) story driven VN. In fact, I think it was in v0.8 that I last got to use a skill check in the script, because by then the plan was to remove the skills bit from the game when we wrap up the content and complete the engine on our way to v1.0. Since we've not got all that much content left to add at this point, it's probably best we just wait to take them out after we are content complete rather than make people wait an update for more engine changes.

Long story short is that the skills are simply to be ignored after you get past Mission 1 and sadly these points are pretty moot. They are from a different iteration of the game before we were even beWilder. If we ever get to do another Agents of Heels series game, it may well be that it will be more inclusive of stat, the way this was going to be once (and like our game Noemi's Toscana Rebirth is), but that's a question for far in the future. Any more details and the full story on what may/may not happen with the stats will have to come from Unshi.


- 4) So, the English, huh? Well... I'm in two minds as to what you mean here. The simple bit first. The reason we don't have people here giving us the Native English version of the texts is because we have a native speaker. Me. English is my only language. Of course, I do make some mistakes (that'll happen with 1M words of text across the whole game) and I have odd phrasings at times, but the writing has picked up since I joined, I think we'll all agree. You can see the point at which the style changes actually, as the texts get longer and more in-depth, for better or worse.

Now... A large part of the game from the Start up to Mission 1 was written by Unshi who has English as a second language. These were serviceable, but did have some mistakes yeah. We call these Act 1 scenes and we are redoing them with my simple rewriting when we can (our last version added 9 more rewrites, now we've only got a handful left to do). If these are what you mean that need improving, we do so agree and we're on it!

Otherwise, short of a helping hand with fans pointing out where typos and errors are found so we can go back to whip up a fix on them, I'm not sure what needs to change. The game doesn't read like it's written by a non-English speaker in the latter half, does it?


- 5) Choices and fetishes. Yeah, we touch on a lot, but we do them well enough I like to think. As for choice, there is a lot. Most things can be avoided if you want via an open choice (such as the Monster and Cat) or you can get through it by being on an appropriate path (like Good Nat can solve Tim's problems without fucking him). The kiss with Kate is important though, and that kiss is a part of the story Kate has running in the background of both our games, not just AoH, so that's why you can't say no to it... but that scene does offer a choice of sex if I recall correctly. Still, maybe added choice would be a good thing, so it's something we will note for the future, sure.


- 6-7) These ones I think are the ones we disagree on most actually. Yes, a lot of the content involves Nat going from Good Agent to Corrupt though harassment that the infection takes control of. That's a little bit Cliche for FemProtage though, sure. We agree there. However, there are times you can be the harasser, where you can avoid sex and do things the right way, where you can be a bad ass and fight instead of fuck, and in the Bad Nat path you can kill off people and be the FemDom agent in charge. If we had the time and resources to do lots more options and paths, sure we would add more ways to do things, but with what we do have I think we provide a good balance of actively being a slut, being corrupted into a slut, and being outright powerful.

Still... One can always do better, so a proper discussion here on it's own conversation may be a good thing if you have specific suggestions, ideas and/or what ifs you'd like to talk about. That stuff can be fun to do too. Let us know with a holler, I'm sure people around here have a lot they think about on this front.



Anyways, I do hope that was an interesting read, and more importantly that it shows off some of our own internal thoughts and influences in how we make AoH. We've got plenty of games and ideas to go in the beWilderverse as time goes by, so its great to hear that people such as yourself care enough to write down some points to help us be better as we grow. I also hope I didn't come off as augmentative.

Now... I'll stop so we can digest and maybe even discuss more. Either way, thanks for stopping by and letting us know you enjoyed our premier work. It's all food for thought and for a good spirit!
I don't have too much to say in response but I do really appreciate the reply!

The English problems are throughout the game. They aren't a big problem but they do make the text/story feel like it was typed quickly with no proofreading. It just looks sloppy when a little bit of playtesting and proofreading would have fixed the issues. They are too numerous to try and list them all. The list would be too long.

If the skills are all removed, what will you fill all the empty time with? Activities such as stretching, showering, swimming, tanning, and running will provide nothing aside from a couple of story events attached to them. All those extra days you've added to slow the game pace down will be for nothing (nothing productive to do). I would take the opposite approach and add a lot more skill checks to the game so the skills have more meaning. Yes, that would add a lot more very small branches to the story. If you do what you are suggesting, the visual novel won't stand out as much since all the RPG elements will be removed. That would put the game back down to three stars for me (currently four).

I know we disagree on some of it and that is OK. It is your game.

Nat is a super agent, super hot, and super fit, yet she has such a low self esteem of herself that she has absolutely no standards when it comes to men. There is a reason why the average joe can't hook up with celebrities and victoria secret models. They won't even consider someone who they don't feel is their equal (not always but generally speaking). Nat acts like some ugly fat chick who throws herself at any man with a heartbeat. It just seems like a conflict of personality or a conflict of interest. Look at how Black Widow is portrayed in all the Marvel movies. It's the opposite personality (when it comes to men) that nat is portrayed in this game. I don't mind nat being a slut or a nympho as long as she has some standards. A celebrity or victoria's secret model going around being slutty with lowlifes is just too much for my imagination. This part of nats personality really isn't believable in my opinion. I feel that this is the main weakness of the story.

Thank you for a great game! I really enjoyed it! The bulk of the game is very good.
 

AgentsOfHeels

Member
Game Developer
Jul 8, 2017
235
384
I don't have too much to say in response but I do really appreciate the reply!

The English problems are throughout the game. They aren't a big problem but they do make the text/story feel like it was typed quickly with no proofreading. It just looks sloppy when a little bit of playtesting and proofreading would have fixed the issues. They are too numerous to try and list them all. The list would be too long.

If the skills are all removed, what will you fill all the empty time with? Activities such as stretching, showering, swimming, tanning, and running will provide nothing aside from a couple of story events attached to them. All those extra days you've added to slow the game pace down will be for nothing (nothing productive to do). I would take the opposite approach and add a lot more skill checks to the game so the skills have more meaning. Yes, that would add a lot more very small branches to the story. If you do what you are suggesting, the visual novel won't stand out as much since all the RPG elements will be removed. That would put the game back down to three stars for me (currently four).

I know we disagree on some of it and that is OK. It is your game.

Nat is a super agent, super hot, and super fit, yet she has such a low self esteem of herself that she has absolutely no standards when it comes to men. There is a reason why the average joe can't hook up with celebrities and victoria secret models. They won't even consider someone who they don't feel is their equal (not always but generally speaking). Nat acts like some ugly fat chick who throws herself at any man with a heartbeat. It just seems like a conflict of personality or a conflict of interest. Look at how Black Widow is portrayed in all the Marvel movies. It's the opposite personality (when it comes to men) that nat is portrayed in this game. I don't mind nat being a slut or a nympho as long as she has some standards. A celebrity or victoria's secret model going around being slutty with lowlifes is just too much for my imagination. This part of nats personality really isn't believable in my opinion. I feel that this is the main weakness of the story.

Thank you for a great game! I really enjoyed it! The bulk of the game is very good.
I can take those since they are more AoH specific and less Bewilder-ish.

As spook said, skills are still on the table of things to think about before final release. The parasite ones (back side stats) will most definitely go away but we are still deciding what we do with the standard stats. Checks can be added easily around the game but we don't want to block progress behind a grind wall but instead make it look rewarding for those who do enjoy certain activities. So far its a progress and go style with 3 main paths and several small activities working the same way; but well see.

About Nat; i dont see her the way you see her and its portrayed in the first few scenes of the game. Shes a tough girl that doesnt take shit from anyone (not even her boss).

She gets then infected by a virus designed by non other than poison Ivy herself and no wonder why that sluts her up :D 3 nats respond to it in different ways;
slut nat (the one you refer to) is Corrupt Nat, which tries to fight it and fails miserably; succumbing to it.
Bad Nat embraces it and adds to her character; using sex as part of her arsenal from then on and abusing men left, right and center for her own benefit.
Good Nat eventually overpowers it and its capable of having some self control even in the most heated moments (scout scene) but that doesnt mean she shouldnt be affected at all.

Im quite happy of how those 3 nats are portrayed and how "believable" those outcomes are for being (after all) a game for adults. Sure we have places to improve, probably the secondary scenes is where all thse nats become more blurry and it just feels like a slut Nat all the time but im quite proud of how the story is told from each different Nat point of view.

To sum it up; i think our biggest issues lie in the secondary stuff; stats; different nats blurring together and nat being less herself and more "infected nat" all the time. Is that possibly how you feel?
 
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Cabin Fever

Engaged Member
Nov 23, 2018
3,161
5,219
Cons
  • The skill increases are too random. Some do not apply to the situation. I would prefer if the skills weren't chosen randomly. You can basically get any skill increase doing any activity so it is difficult to work on specific skills.
  • Some skills hardly ever get boosted such as subtlety and power.
That's not true at all. It's always the same skill increasing the same amount for the same task.
I tested v0.17 (Windows) and downloaded it off this site. What you said isn't true. I have gotten a power or strength boost from swimming as an example. There are plenty others. If you still insist, I'll post screenshots.
I sure would like to see that screenshot, because I compiled that based on my gameplay and it has never failed me.

Keep in mind all those are repeatable basic "training" events, not one-off story advancement events.
BeWilder & AgentsOfHeels, can you guys confirm which one of us is correct?
 

AgentsOfHeels

Member
Game Developer
Jul 8, 2017
235
384
BeWilder & AgentsOfHeels, can you guys confirm which one of us is correct?
Stats are fixed for repeatable scenes, yes. If you run at the park everyday you will always improve the same stats.

However; random scenes do exist in secondary activities and they can provide other stats. So until the "repeatable scene status" is reached and random scenes pop at a particular activity stats may improve accordingly to whats happening in those scenes and not in what the activity is.

I guess thats where the confusion came from.
 

Dracis3D

Member
Game Developer
Nov 16, 2017
255
392
As spook said, skills are still on the table of things to think about before final release. The parasite ones (back side stats) will most definitely go away but we are still deciding what we do with the standard stats. Checks can be added easily around the game but we don't want to block progress behind a grind wall but instead make it look rewarding for those who do enjoy certain activities. So far its a progress and go style with 3 main paths and several small activities working the same way; but well see.
Skills don't currently do much and I think you could remove them. But to finish the game you would need to give a few 'relaxation' options in between the missions (Swim, Run, Tan, Yoga etc) and maybe the others are cut scenes. Or turn them all into cutscenes based on the behaviour of Nat. The downside is the work put into designing the house and the various areas would likely go, and you might need to add/change a few of the scenes to suit how Nat is being played.

Personally I think the game will be better as a pure VN as the side events can get out of sync with the time of day, and what Nat has sexually been up to.
 

FaiRTaiL

Active Member
Nov 8, 2017
584
591
v0.18 is just the addition of a scene gallery + minor tweaks to old scenes. As far as story progress goes, there's nothing. So if you are up to date with v0.17, it's no big deal.
really? good to know.. thx for info..

so next update will be Noe right ?
 

BeWilder

Member
Game Developer
Jan 18, 2018
488
1,178
really? good to know.. thx for info..

so next update will be Noe right ?
Yep, Cabin Fever is right. September is a Noemi month and it's what we're working on right now. October will be back to Nat and AoH. There was a delay and a mix up caused by a couple of away from Keyboard life problems to sort out a few weeks back, but we're pretty much back to our normal schedule now.

will anyone tell me where does the v0.17 end plz?
There is no real set end for v0.17 I'm afraid. The main story line(s) have a pause point until we finish the side content planned and then wrap up the story, but reaching these doesn't mean you've gotten all the content available I do believe.

The end points depend on which Nat you are playing. I've spoilered them, just in case.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Hope that helps.
 

jaredhsieh65

Active Member
Jul 2, 2017
702
605
New update has "Gallery" !!??
Chicken - hawk on the move .............. finally.............. (from Division 2 )
 
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