- Nov 17, 2022
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- Feb 25, 2023
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from what point do you think, jason behaves well, when he proposes to MC, he deceives him by saying only what he knows is of interest, he omits the rest, and it turns out in the end, even inviting Sthep proves his plan, like the falsehood she says, about tori and that Jason does it to rest, all lies, and coincidentally at the end, Tori plays mysterious, all to get Sthep turned on, make MC think they're going to fuck, but getting him upstairs to talk, Tori he does nothing but try to make MC capitulate to accept that Sthep becomes a bitch, it's at the moment that he accepts, by magic, Jason and Sthep feel having fun, game, sneaky, it's too piloted, easily readable as a plot.
Sorry for the fucking novel. I took the day off from the thread and came back to pages of really good posts with a lot of constructive comments. While I completely see and understand why there are people upset, there are many things being said I don't agree with.
My first few playthroughs of the latest update all ended with a happy Steph, happy MC, and Tori and Jason as swinging friends and allies of the couple. It wasn't until I went back and purposefully pulled all my decisions to a specific direction that I was able to get content where the MC was manipulated specifically for the purposes of putting him in a cuckold situation with Jason as the bull and Steph playing the dumb submissive slut wife. So, no, not all the content is focused on the medium- and low-confidence cuckold path.
On the other hand, it is apparent that the devs are approaching the low-confidence, cuckold path entirely from the submissive cuckold perspective. Submissive cuckolds subscribe to a very specific set of sadomasochistic practices and are a very small subset of the cuckold population. It was a bold choice on behalf of the writer, one I do not agree with or enjoy. I do not enjoy cuckold content, rarely play that type of game, and don't typically choose that path if given the option. So, I don't have teeth in this fight except to see that my friends here are unhappy with the way that is being portrayed. As I said, I had to work to get that content.
If you are playing all the routes and then judging the characters based on the collective and very distinct personalities from each path, quite frankly, you are doing it wrong. I mentioned this in a much earlier post, it is difficult for me to tell if we are supposed to play all the paths to get a full picture of what is going on, or if each path is an entirely separate direction. That is the case here. You cannot hold any piece of information from one path and apply it to another path. They are separate stories.
Steph is a loving, supportive wife (albeit slightly bitchy and on the wild side) with her husband on the high-confidence path. On the medium-confidence path, Steph is nearly unbearable as a bitch and while she still asks her husband's opinion, it has little weight. She makes big errors, acts like a slut, and then regrets her behavior. On the low-confidence path, Steph is an absolute cunt. The worst kind of wife. If she asks her husband's opinion, it is only to manipulate and control him. She is dominant in the worst way and walks over the top of her husband on her way to get fucked by a random guy in the bar. You cannot take any of these "versions" of Steph and combine them in another playthrough. And that can be a tall ask of any reader. Once we see a character act a certain way, it is difficult to change how we see her.
If you choose the low-confidence path, you are choosing to play the MC as a submissive cuckold who doesn't quite understand who he is yet. It is only when he is faced with seeing his wife with another man that he realizes he is turned on by it. It is only after she plays the dumb slut that he learns he loves her for it. It is only after speaking with Tori that the pieces fall in place and he understands that he has been manipulated to arrive at a single decision point where he must decide if he wants to go forward as a submissive cuckold or leave it all behind. Fortunately, the devs had the foresight to include that escape hatch for anyone who got there and does not want to continue. Unfortunately, the devs took a hard stance on the submissive cuckold perspective. I think the better choice would have been to provide the middle-ground voyeur cuckold growing into his confidence on the medium-confidence path. Then leave the low confidence path as the submissive cuckold, or "bad ending"*.
In reality, we are seeing scenes that are only partially finished. A rough draft, really. Nobody knows what will happen in the next update. We see the skeletal framework for the medium- and low-confidence paths but they seem to really be the same in the current script. I would imagine they will not stay that way. I have been happy with how the devs have made significant changes in minor updates. They have revisited scenes from the beginning of the visual novel with each update and have made significant changes that have altered all the paths in mostly positive ways. They promised an update and were unfortunate to experience a major setback before it was completed. But they stayed true to their scheduled release. Unfortunately, it wasn't ready and they had to tie off some of the loose ends. I believe we are far from seeing the intended story.
Yes, I have made a conscious decision to remain positive about the game and the devs. I tend to be that way in general. I do believe we will get a game that makes us happy, on a very specific path. While there are people who are quite content with the submissive cuck angle, I know the majority of active people on this thread saw that shit coming from the beginning and have no desire for it to play out like that. It isn't my game. I would not write it that way. It is the way they decided to go. I don't think it takes away from the high-confidence path that I intend to stick to. If I were in the cuckold lifestyle or enjoyed that kind of content, and did not subscribe to the submissive cuckold aspect, I would be upset at the way it is portrayed. But again, it isn't my story to tell. I am just along for the ride. In the end, I hope it represents a romantic and in-love husband and wife engaging in the swinging lifestyle — together.
______________________
*The problem with calling it a "bad ending" is that term has a specific usage here on F95. It typically results in extremely negative content (e.g. death of a character, violent rape, etc.) and an actual game over.
My first few playthroughs of the latest update all ended with a happy Steph, happy MC, and Tori and Jason as swinging friends and allies of the couple. It wasn't until I went back and purposefully pulled all my decisions to a specific direction that I was able to get content where the MC was manipulated specifically for the purposes of putting him in a cuckold situation with Jason as the bull and Steph playing the dumb submissive slut wife. So, no, not all the content is focused on the medium- and low-confidence cuckold path.
On the other hand, it is apparent that the devs are approaching the low-confidence, cuckold path entirely from the submissive cuckold perspective. Submissive cuckolds subscribe to a very specific set of sadomasochistic practices and are a very small subset of the cuckold population. It was a bold choice on behalf of the writer, one I do not agree with or enjoy. I do not enjoy cuckold content, rarely play that type of game, and don't typically choose that path if given the option. So, I don't have teeth in this fight except to see that my friends here are unhappy with the way that is being portrayed. As I said, I had to work to get that content.
If you are playing all the routes and then judging the characters based on the collective and very distinct personalities from each path, quite frankly, you are doing it wrong. I mentioned this in a much earlier post, it is difficult for me to tell if we are supposed to play all the paths to get a full picture of what is going on, or if each path is an entirely separate direction. That is the case here. You cannot hold any piece of information from one path and apply it to another path. They are separate stories.
Steph is a loving, supportive wife (albeit slightly bitchy and on the wild side) with her husband on the high-confidence path. On the medium-confidence path, Steph is nearly unbearable as a bitch and while she still asks her husband's opinion, it has little weight. She makes big errors, acts like a slut, and then regrets her behavior. On the low-confidence path, Steph is an absolute cunt. The worst kind of wife. If she asks her husband's opinion, it is only to manipulate and control him. She is dominant in the worst way and walks over the top of her husband on her way to get fucked by a random guy in the bar. You cannot take any of these "versions" of Steph and combine them in another playthrough. And that can be a tall ask of any reader. Once we see a character act a certain way, it is difficult to change how we see her.
If you choose the low-confidence path, you are choosing to play the MC as a submissive cuckold who doesn't quite understand who he is yet. It is only when he is faced with seeing his wife with another man that he realizes he is turned on by it. It is only after she plays the dumb slut that he learns he loves her for it. It is only after speaking with Tori that the pieces fall in place and he understands that he has been manipulated to arrive at a single decision point where he must decide if he wants to go forward as a submissive cuckold or leave it all behind. Fortunately, the devs had the foresight to include that escape hatch for anyone who got there and does not want to continue. Unfortunately, the devs took a hard stance on the submissive cuckold perspective. I think the better choice would have been to provide the middle-ground voyeur cuckold growing into his confidence on the medium-confidence path. Then leave the low confidence path as the submissive cuckold, or "bad ending"*.
In reality, we are seeing scenes that are only partially finished. A rough draft, really. Nobody knows what will happen in the next update. We see the skeletal framework for the medium- and low-confidence paths but they seem to really be the same in the current script. I would imagine they will not stay that way. I have been happy with how the devs have made significant changes in minor updates. They have revisited scenes from the beginning of the visual novel with each update and have made significant changes that have altered all the paths in mostly positive ways. They promised an update and were unfortunate to experience a major setback before it was completed. But they stayed true to their scheduled release. Unfortunately, it wasn't ready and they had to tie off some of the loose ends. I believe we are far from seeing the intended story.
Yes, I have made a conscious decision to remain positive about the game and the devs. I tend to be that way in general. I do believe we will get a game that makes us happy, on a very specific path. While there are people who are quite content with the submissive cuck angle, I know the majority of active people on this thread saw that shit coming from the beginning and have no desire for it to play out like that. It isn't my game. I would not write it that way. It is the way they decided to go. I don't think it takes away from the high-confidence path that I intend to stick to. If I were in the cuckold lifestyle or enjoyed that kind of content, and did not subscribe to the submissive cuckold aspect, I would be upset at the way it is portrayed. But again, it isn't my story to tell. I am just along for the ride. In the end, I hope it represents a romantic and in-love husband and wife engaging in the swinging lifestyle — together.
______________________
*The problem with calling it a "bad ending" is that term has a specific usage here on F95. It typically results in extremely negative content (e.g. death of a character, violent rape, etc.) and an actual game over.
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- Feb 25, 2023
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what is the point of trust, if the game is controlled, then what nonsense there is, in demonstrating trust, when in any case, Sthep already starts cheating in the game, the lunch receipt hidden, going to bed domy without waiting for MC, the phone call, which clearly assumes that Sthep has made an agreement with Tori, the real director, and then coincidentally, it is always Sthep who dominates the answers or actions, except, when she is fucked by Dommy, like that repulsive scene playing sorry , after having fucked dommy, after the phone call, who immediately revives and calls gina to deceive Mc, in order to give him the smoke of parity, in the meantime, however, Paoul has already made sure too, and gina herself, what a game of shit
yeah my blind play is also high confidence or high dom or whatever, i don't know it's blind play but yeah the content is cut before anything happen.
I think we'll get actual foursome or sharing content so i'm good
- Jan 23, 2020
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You and me both, brother. And these last few pages (well, since the release) is why I don't get sucked into these flights of fancy (that and I simply don't have the time). Not trying to be harsh or argumentative, but as often happens in these cases, folks work themselves into a corner from which there is no easy escape. This is going to happen or that is going to happen and before you know it all the surprise and the unknown has been let out of the balloon. There's almost no way a story can live up to these kinds of expectations, so it's the woe scenario.
Looking at what's said in the game and the code, there are, as best as I can tell, three more reasonably predictable routes this game can take (unless the devs drive off a cliff somewhere). The route they chose to take for the present didn't satisfy some of you, but others may have been ok with it. The next time it will be another group that gets hit for good or bad. It's just the way it works in a multi-route game. And, by definition, that's why we have multi-route games. Draw more peeps in.
I just don't see how one can pass judgment on this game this early. No one that I've seen has even talked about the business side of things. The weird shadow corps that have been discovered and how will that affect the fellow's friendships. Is one being set up? Will they work together? Who knows... I need to stop it now, I am breaking my own rule.
- May 6, 2023
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Your approach and post are completely valid and I play many VNs that way myself. Its my preferred way.
For those of us who paid for it, and I think I can speak on their behalf, seek to play all the routes and paths and explore the content we paid for. Promises were made by the devs, they weren't delivered. To find they have included cheating is a great disappointment to me because it wasn't on the radar at all in the tags, the description of the game, or their posts and since I had one on one at length contact with them, I feel particularly betrayed.
I was critical of the shadow corp talk in my review that I released after the first version came out. I don't usually write a review so early but was very excited to see a new take on the swinging couple.
It is obviously going to play some kind of role considering that it was in the first scene, and now they bring it back in two more scenes. They specifically interrupt the big Tori & Jason scene to talk about the shadow corp. So something deeper is going on. I just have no idea what, yet.
I am often a culprit for jumping to conclusions. I try to be pragmatic and keep a level head. Sometimes, emotions get the best of me. But in this game, it just seems like we are still in the introduction. Too early to make big sweeping decisions about how it is going.
We just met Tori and Jason. Tori has just let us know that she respects the MC and Steph and wants to include them in future playtime. For the non-swingers that are following along, this is a very wise and typical move of experienced swingers. Invite the couple (or a single) over and get to know them better before choosing to play. I would have opened the invitation with, "Nothing is going to happen on the first night." However, for the sake of dramatic storytelling, there were obvious reasons the author did not include that piece.
I enjoy the speculation. I just have to remember that it is only speculation. I have hopes for the way a story will go. Fears I want to try to avoid. I want to hear what the author has to tell us. I want to hear his story. And we are just getting started!
- May 6, 2023
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You make valid points and there are plenty of games I am waiting on I don't comment on.
This one was different because it was portrayed as different. The devs said it would be different. The tags, descriptions, the dev posts, none of them mentioned paths where Steph becomes a cheating BBC whore in them. I know people will say we cant know the BBC part but considering the scene with Jason and the only promo photo not in the game on Steam is Stehp about to ride another BBC I think there is validity to my assumption. Add to that, especially for me, was the one on one contact with the devs about Steph and I came away thinking we were on the same page, not one hint Steph would cheat or go BBC in any path. They said they would make Steph better not worse. So I am particular pissed.
- May 6, 2023
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Always the optimist and I do like that about you. You often provide balance and your post is that.
Just one thing, I heard from the author and he had much to say remember. I came away from that very excited for this game. I thought we were on the same page. So my confidence in him is clearly dom1 = 0 low confidence path.
For something light hearted, I had two nurses and my wife encourage me to do a strip tease for them today around a red pole lol. Since I spent most of the day on a hospital bed, I wasn't inclined to walk let alone perform lol. Some days are just crazy.
So you paid for it? You didn't get the pirated copy for free here, on the pirate site you frequent? The way you stated that you can speak on their behalf leaves some doubt as to whether the feelings of betrayal you have attributed to paying for something you didn't get are fully valid. After all, you don't have a verified donor tag. I don't mean to make a personal attack, I am just devoted to truth, and so I am asking for clarification there. Maybe I seem like a fanboy, but actually, I am just a guy who loves playing games with slutty women, and I am a game developer who has read a lot of criticism from people on this site who suffer cognitive dissonance - they don't pay, and to justify not paying, they hate what they play. Are you that guy?
Because at this point, if you seek to play all the routes, then you got a lot of content didn't you? If you play all the routes of a game like this, then the cuckold route IS content you play.
I don't mean to make an enemy out of you, honestly. I just joined today to advocate for more cumshots in this game, but I feel the need to defend the developers, and I guess my time here will be short lived and I'll be banned by tomorrow. But yeah... I think you are being unfair in your criticism, and you could impact their productivity in doing so. I've abandoned a game because I read hate stuff on this site. I don't want these devs to abandon this, so I'm standing up for them. It's nothing personal.
Someone else had mentioned the title and how deceptive it was. Add in the first conversation with Jason, he specifically makes the point of saying Tori has a huge appetite and that he would likely join in for the first round and then go sleep downstairs. But then we see the pool teaser image, and now the scene where Jason dominates Steph and Tori tells the MC what is really going on. I think your anger and concern are founded on solid evidence. These pieces are direct contradictions to what we believed, and more importantly, what we see in the high-confidence playthrough. But that is why I have hope. I think those things are in direct contradiction to show the opposing side. The dangers of not being bold and confident. Of not following blindly instead of leading.
We weren't promised there was not going to be BBC or cuckold hell. We were told that we need to be bold and confident to keep women, specifically Steph and the women we encounter, happy and sexually aroused. While we were not specifically warned of the consequences, we were told that there are dangers of not being bold, confident, and keeping Steph happy. I don't think all the paths are going to end happily ever after (except for the submissive cucks and fans of humiliation). But there will be a happily ever after for the bold and the confident.
The "verified donor" tag is for those who donate to F95. The "supporting" section shows games that the person supports on Patreon if they link the accounts. However, that link is broken right now. Many of us have purchased the game from the developers on Steam. That is the only way to support them at the moment.
I did see that you like to advocate for cum shots in every game! LOL Advocating is great! Demanding is another. You will see there are a lot of people on F95 that demand and threaten. This just isn't the place for that. Although, we know the developers of this game are lurking on this thread, not all developers care to hear what a bunch of pirates have to say about anything!
Welcome to F95!
- May 6, 2023
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I had a conversation with the writer of the game. I came away from that very excited for this game and I felt we were all on the same page. To support the dev, as I was impressed with their vision, I bought the Steam version of the game. It wasn't even $10 so no big deal. I have paid a lot more for other shitty games on Steam I no longer wanted to play. I don't care about that.
However, I do often play all the routes in a game because how do I know what route they are or what's in them if I haven't played that route (doesn't mean I finish the route)? If I don't like the route, I don't go back, simple.
None of that is the issue, for example the devs never indicated Steph would cheat, there are no tags for it, they never said it, and its not in the description unless I missed it. They said to me they were improving Steph, turning her in to a cheating BBC whore is not improving the character... There are other things but I think one example is enough.
wow, thanks for the clarification and for not slapping me down, I appreciate it. Glad to be here (I've been lurking forever, but decided today that I wanted to get involved in discussions, and as you can tell by my avalanche of posts, I've got a lot to say that I guess I've been holding back
)fair enough ok, I see your point. I also appreciate that you didn't get all angry and aggressive against me.
One last thing in their defense is just to point out that I'm not sure if they should feel obliged to keep tags on a pirate site super accurate or up to date. But, maybe you are talking about tags on steam? I haven't paid for this game, though I like it enough to support it and will do so. So I haven't looked at it on steam and don't know if steam has the kinds of tags that this site has.
- May 6, 2023
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And there is another one of my chief bugbears we have previously discussed at length. Confident and bold in this game don't always make sense. How many times does Steph say she gets out of control, but you can't control her. Any attempt by the MC to be confident and curb her behaviour or question her is either deliberately muted by the devs OR you cop a penalty confidence hit. The system doesn't work properly. Too often confidence = letting Steph do what the fuck she wants even if you know it is wrong. Its warped.
(I share my steam account with my 14 year old son, so buying this type of game there is a non-starter, but I do support games on patreon)
- May 6, 2023
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I know after the last few days this will seem a contradictory, but I am normally pretty calm and don't take a lot of offence. I have no issue with people asking me questions and disagreeing with me and pointing out where I fuck up. Its how we learn and grow. It takes a lot to really piss me off, no one here has ever done that. Its all good.
PS tags on the site are pretty accurate for the most part except around the Netorare stuff then its the Wild West lol
yeah, I'm going to post on one of the NTR threads at some point to give a point of view on swinging, cheating, and cuckold content. But first I have to take a few deep breaths and brace for the backlash