BlasKyau

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 26, 2018
7,837
10,286
I wouldn't have played the game to begin with if I wasn't fine with there being trans content. Given the fact it clearly states on the first page of the thread that there is trans content in the game.

If a game has content I don't enjoy, I don't waste my time downloading it so that I can then bitch about that content being in it later on. I just pick something else and play that instead. It's not like there is a shortage of content on this site alone.

I don't expect a dev to cater wholely and solely to my personal preferences. I expect them to make what they wanna make and for me to evaluate whether I want to engage with that content using my own common sense. Even if they've made something I adored in the past.

Just because they made one thing I enjoyed doesn't then force them to make more shit I like in perpetuity. Nor give me any right to be angry at them if they don't make more stuff I want or make something I hate.
I play many (almost all) games with content I don't like, as long as it's avoidable. And in this game it's avoidable to have romance and sex scenes with Nea, so I don't see the reason for not being able to play this game. In fact, I've played Nea's route up to the point where you decide if you want to romance her or not. There I have said no, with the consequences discussed in previous pages.
 

Blaisdale

Member
Oct 8, 2018
352
302
Personally, I won't play any games with NTR unless I can confirm that the NTR is either easily avoidable, or at worst is the penalty for poor choices. Pretty much any game that I've played with optional trans content has given you a pretty straightforward message to tell you "This is where you opt out of trans content". They also don't tie them into decisions, like saving Nea from bullying, which a lot of people, myself included, could not in clear conscience abandon her on. We ended up helping Nea, being a friend, etc. And then suddenly she's in our bathroom masturbating to our underwear. Only then do you get another vague question about how you feel about Nea, with the penalty for the "wrong" answer being Nea's suicide. It's a bit like asking if you want to avoid incest content while your sister is sucking your cock. That branch needs to come much sooner.

Just because you fast forward through something, or it happens offscreen doesn't always get rid of it's impact. Nea's death is just alluded to, but it had its impact on people. At the same time, knowing that sexual stuff is going on, even if the screen fades to black or you fast forward through the scene has it's impact as well. Out of sight is not out of mind. There might as well be a scene where some guy rapes one of the MC's sisters, but you can fast forward through it and it doesn't actually affect her story at all. It still couldn't be ignored by many, especially people that immerse themselves in the story. Just because you can tune it out doesn't mean others can. And really, as the dev and as the person who said that Nea's content would be avoidable, it was up to Luxee to structure this better. There shouldn't really be any surprise that the controversial optional content causes controversy, especially when it's not as optional as people expected. It's optional in the same sense that pepperoni pizza is vegan if you pick the meat and cheese off. But it's not a very good nor complete pizza.


As for NTR , its rough. If I read the thread and it sounds like a good plot.
I give it a try and skip through unwanted parts.

However. I like consequence for your actions, so the fact if you choose to avoid or not pay attention to Nea,
She takes her own life, that to me is a pro, not a con.
I like the idea of your choice can have a consequence.

Lets also keep in mind this game is still in the building stage, Luxee has changed a few things as it is.
The change of making trans content actually fully avoidable could still come.
Before we completely condemn Luxee lets wait till its finished on that.
However I do give you that point it "should" have been put in earlier but it still may come yet.
(I'll fully admit, I thought it was avoidable but I am with you on it probably not coming, since it not being here now is a bad sign.
but I dont want to jump the gun on that.)

As for Nea's suicide , I like that consequence.
Adds a bit or realistic element to it. Some going through all of what Nea is going through.
Bullying , overly controlling family, no real friends to connect with.
Having her take her own life, actually seems closer to home with people like Nea, when you are that alone it happens,
specially with those kinda struggles.

Games having an impact on people is a good thing.
Games should not hand hold you.
I have never been a fan of "The M.C. must do everything". I like other characters doing things to you in a game.
Then you get to find out who did it or even in the process of trying to find out, you can make yourself look like a fool.
Red Falls as an example - getting head in the woods, got to figure out who did it.
I like that other people do things to you and a story can move forward with others as well, rather than just the M.C.'s choices alone.

I actually like Nea, so I never knew about the death till reading it here.
Which I will be going back and taking a look at because of curiosity.
What you said about fast forwarding not making things not happen.
Great point. One I agree with, doesn't mean I wanna watch a wife bang someone else and read each thing going on.
However Like Doctor Amana (I think I got that right?)
I liked the idea you cheat on your wife, she will cheat back and there be consequence of that action.
Just because I don't want to see it or read it. Doesn't mean I don't like the outcome that may have on the story.

I like how in that game you get the option to tell her, she gets out of the hot tub and you are left there.
Not a fan that all my actions should have a positive or no consequence reaction.
I like bad reactions to give it a good feel to it.
With that being said, I still love games like SpaceCrops where its all just humor and the game just totally messes with you regardless. That game keeps me laughing :D

Bringing morality into a game because Nea killed herself by "her own actions" means,
you have to apply that logic some where else as well.
Ever play a game where you murder people!? You then need to justify slaughtering thousands of people.
Believe you are the good guy? Who says?

Divinity 2: Dragon Knight Saga. The game tells you the whole time people see everything wrong.
Tries to teach you, how the order you were under, lied to you.

The whole time you have a woman in your head talking to you, even at times pushing you to do good deeds and
bitching your ass out when you do wrong thing. Kill an innocent person she gets upset.
Even questions when you kill a man soul linked to a chicken. So if either dies they both die.
Stating "I am not sure if it was the wrong thing to do or maybe mercy"
- keep in mind the guy was also acting like a chicken.
Kill too many bunnies and the killer bunny comes after you (Monty Python reference),
she laughs at you and says "you had it coming"

You have a mentor who orders 3 people kill you, wont even give you the time of day, because of events that just happened.
She tells them to kill the betrayer.
From that point on that voice in your head turns more into a mentor. Often explaining things or down right teasing you.
However she seems to guide the player in a positive way.
Near the end of the game you run into your older mentor, upon seeing you she demands your head.
Even though at the time your goals were the same, she comes across so unhinged, it makes you further question this order.
Specially since if you the player remembers at the beginning they were talking about the dragons they slaughtered and
how good it felt and needing to kill this last dragon that was spotted.

They put her (old mentor) behind bars which you can visit her and all she does is bitch at you.
When you get to the end, the bad guy had been poisoning the air, slaughter countless people.
Been tossing you idle threats stating what he would do to you and saying just go now, run away.
Once you beat him you find out, he was soul linked to his dead wife.
As long as he was alive his "extremely evil" wife stays dead.

Then the voice in your head begins to mock you for unknowingly being her champion all this time.

Stories are just stories.
I wont apply a moral compass to a game I'm intended to enjoy.
In almost every game by any standard, I'm doing something wrong.
Hell I love GTA.
Murder , theft , beating up hookers, flipping off cops or that player who is trying to shot me lol.

I'm more invested in my character when I play a game.
Sister gets raped, maybe there is good story-line behind it.
Hell I play shattered, I cant recall her name now (I think isis but probably wrong) but if you choose to go to the slums with her, seems like your helping her out.
either way , your best friend ends up in a cage probably raped too.

Either way doesn't change the fact, I'd rather not go to the slums.
You end up in a cage too being treated like a dog.
so fuck her, I'd rather have my own freedom.

That's a consequence, I know I would like to see those people in the slums.
But fuck that shit, locked in a cage, treated like a dog, even though really its only a few days,
I get the option to not go, so fuck her.
 

BlasKyau

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 26, 2018
7,837
10,286
As for NTR , its rough. If I read the thread and it sounds like a good plot.
I give it a try and skip through unwanted parts.
If a game has unavoidable NTR, I don't play it, I don't give a shit if the plot is interesting. I'm not going to play it under any circumstances.

If a game has avoidable NTR, I want to know in advance how to avoid it.

However. I like consequence for your actions, so the fact if you choose to avoid or not pay attention to Nea,
She takes her own life, that to me is a pro, not a con.
I like the idea of your choice can have a consequence.
Personally, while Nea's story was interesting, having to choose between her having a romance with the MC and her jumping off the roof, I choose without hesitation the latter, which is actually the option I'm currently playing.

As for Nea's suicide , I like that consequence.
Adds a bit or realistic element to it. Some going through all of what Nea is going through.
Bullying , overly controlling family, no real friends to connect with.
Having her take her own life, actually seems closer to home with people like Nea, when you are that alone it happens,
specially with those kinda struggles.
The only consequence that interests me of this option is that choosing it, there will be no sex scenes of Nea.
 

Rutonat

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2020
1,746
3,500
I just don't get it. The game has the trans tag. If you don't like trans content, don't play the game. Instead, people actively play games with shit they hate in it and then get pissy that it has that thing in it.

Why should the dev give a fuck if you don't like a thing in their game that is clearly tagged as being in the game? It's their story, their time and their effort going into making it. They can make whatever they like. And we are free to ignore it if it isn't our cup of tea.

There seem to be several tags that just attract lunatics who seem to need to complain about the existence of the content of that tag existing anywhere. NTR for example. Just about every thread I open has someone moaning about how 'this game better not add NTR'. As if complaining about it everywhere they possibly can will somehow force it out of existence entirely.

Just baffles me.
Because people like to act entitled and throw a tamper tantrum because the game has content they want removed, despite it being clearly advertised beforehand. You have no idae how often I've seen it on this site alone. Trying to reason those people is a waste of time, you'd have a more productive day watching paint dry. And at least you'd avoid the headache.

I'm just glad that I've become more confident in my heterosexuality... but, then... I was never this bad.
If you think being with a trans girl is being gay, your heterosexuality is far more fragile than you like to pretend. The fact she's pre-op doesn't change that she's not a dude.


As for NTR , its rough. If I read the thread and it sounds like a good plot.
I give it a try and skip through unwanted parts.

However. I like consequence for your actions, so the fact if you choose to avoid or not pay attention to Nea,
She takes her own life, that to me is a pro, not a con.
I like the idea of your choice can have a consequence.

Lets also keep in mind this game is still in the building stage, Luxee has changed a few things as it is.
The change of making trans content actually fully avoidable could still come.
Before we completely condemn Luxee lets wait till its finished on that.
However I do give you that point it "should" have been put in earlier but it still may come yet.
(I'll fully admit, I thought it was avoidable but I am with you on it probably not coming, since it not being here now is a bad sign.
but I dont want to jump the gun on that.)

As for Nea's suicide , I like that consequence.
Adds a bit or realistic element to it. Some going through all of what Nea is going through.
Bullying , overly controlling family, no real friends to connect with.
Having her take her own life, actually seems closer to home with people like Nea, when you are that alone it happens,
specially with those kinda struggles.

Games having an impact on people is a good thing.
Games should not hand hold you.
I have never been a fan of "The M.C. must do everything". I like other characters doing things to you in a game.
Then you get to find out who did it or even in the process of trying to find out, you can make yourself look like a fool.
Red Falls as an example - getting head in the woods, got to figure out who did it.
I like that other people do things to you and a story can move forward with others as well, rather than just the M.C.'s choices alone.

I actually like Nea, so I never knew about the death till reading it here.
Which I will be going back and taking a look at because of curiosity.
What you said about fast forwarding not making things not happen.
Great point. One I agree with, doesn't mean I wanna watch a wife bang someone else and read each thing going on.
However Like Doctor Amana (I think I got that right?)
I liked the idea you cheat on your wife, she will cheat back and there be consequence of that action.
Just because I don't want to see it or read it. Doesn't mean I don't like the outcome that may have on the story.

I like how in that game you get the option to tell her, she gets out of the hot tub and you are left there.
Not a fan that all my actions should have a positive or no consequence reaction.
I like bad reactions to give it a good feel to it.
With that being said, I still love games like SpaceCrops where its all just humor and the game just totally messes with you regardless. That game keeps me laughing :D

Bringing morality into a game because Nea killed herself by "her own actions" means,
you have to apply that logic some where else as well.
Ever play a game where you murder people!? You then need to justify slaughtering thousands of people.
Believe you are the good guy? Who says?

Divinity 2: Dragon Knight Saga. The game tells you the whole time people see everything wrong.
Tries to teach you, how the order you were under, lied to you.

The whole time you have a woman in your head talking to you, even at times pushing you to do good deeds and
bitching your ass out when you do wrong thing. Kill an innocent person she gets upset.
Even questions when you kill a man soul linked to a chicken. So if either dies they both die.
Stating "I am not sure if it was the wrong thing to do or maybe mercy"
- keep in mind the guy was also acting like a chicken.
Kill too many bunnies and the killer bunny comes after you (Monty Python reference),
she laughs at you and says "you had it coming"

You have a mentor who orders 3 people kill you, wont even give you the time of day, because of events that just happened.
She tells them to kill the betrayer.
From that point on that voice in your head turns more into a mentor. Often explaining things or down right teasing you.
However she seems to guide the player in a positive way.
Near the end of the game you run into your older mentor, upon seeing you she demands your head.
Even though at the time your goals were the same, she comes across so unhinged, it makes you further question this order.
Specially since if you the player remembers at the beginning they were talking about the dragons they slaughtered and
how good it felt and needing to kill this last dragon that was spotted.

They put her (old mentor) behind bars which you can visit her and all she does is bitch at you.
When you get to the end, the bad guy had been poisoning the air, slaughter countless people.
Been tossing you idle threats stating what he would do to you and saying just go now, run away.
Once you beat him you find out, he was soul linked to his dead wife.
As long as he was alive his "extremely evil" wife stays dead.

Then the voice in your head begins to mock you for unknowingly being her champion all this time.

Stories are just stories.
I wont apply a moral compass to a game I'm intended to enjoy.
In almost every game by any standard, I'm doing something wrong.
Hell I love GTA.
Murder , theft , beating up hookers, flipping off cops or that player who is trying to shot me lol.

I'm more invested in my character when I play a game.
Sister gets raped, maybe there is good story-line behind it.
Hell I play shattered, I cant recall her name now (I think isis but probably wrong) but if you choose to go to the slums with her, seems like your helping her out.
either way , your best friend ends up in a cage probably raped too.

Either way doesn't change the fact, I'd rather not go to the slums.
You end up in a cage too being treated like a dog.
so fuck her, I'd rather have my own freedom.

That's a consequence, I know I would like to see those people in the slums.
But fuck that shit, locked in a cage, treated like a dog, even though really its only a few days,
I get the option to not go, so fuck her.
Glad to finally see someone able to think as far as I do.
Nea's suicide was handled poorly, but when you know enough about the absolute hell some trans people -especially trans girls- go through, particularly in the US, that whole thing is sadly horribly realistic...
Though, I'd never say something as abhorrent as "that character killing themselves is a good part of the game". That, in my opinion, is an absolutely fucked up opinion to have. Even in fiction, suicide is never a thing to be considered a "pro". So I'll just chose to hope you meant "the choice to go with a realistic route" rather than "the trans character killing herself is a plus".
 

Blaisdale

Member
Oct 8, 2018
352
302
Because people like to act entitled and throw a tamper tantrum because the game has content they want removed, despite it being clearly advertised beforehand. You have no idae how often I've seen it on this site alone. Trying to reason those people is a waste of time, you'd have a more productive day watching paint dry. And at least you'd avoid the headache.


If you think being with a trans girl is being gay, your heterosexuality is far more fragile than you like to pretend. The fact she's pre-op doesn't change that she's not a dude.



Glad to finally see someone able to think as far as I do.
Nea's suicide was handled poorly, but when you know enough about the absolute hell some trans people -especially trans girls- go through, particularly in the US, that whole thing is sadly horribly realistic...
Though, I'd never say something as abhorrent as "that character killing themselves is a good part of the game". That, in my opinion, is an absolutely fucked up opinion to have. Even in fiction, suicide is never a thing to be considered a "pro". So I'll just chose to hope you meant "the choice to go with a realistic route" rather than "the trans character killing herself is a plus".

I don't think her killing herself is a good thing.
However when games can grab you and make you feel something is a good thing.
That to me is what matters.

I am not a believer that when I play a game, it needs to be all good because I don't want anything else.
When events play out you cant control, I like, specially when it feels something is going on in the background regardless.
Bad things can be written in to move plot and grab you and keep you talking.

Being a Dik - M.C.'s mother being dead is a frequent point.
Thousand Arms - game is started by M.C.'s father possibly dying (he didn't but you assume it) and home destroyed.
As well as most of the main cast having bad things happen to them pushing them forward.
I'm bad with remembering titles and names as of late, aging is a bitch lol

There was one VN I played where one of the main L.I. jumps off of a bridge and you save her.
She becomes a big focus point in it. I cant remember the name of it right now but it was a good game.
She ends up trying to jump off a second time towards the end and up in the hospital with memory loss.
That game grabs you with in an interesting way.

I could go into many things where "death" could grab you on how you view it.
I like Nea, I am pretty sure I stated that before, but in case I didn't. I do.
I do think with the way its written its close to real, if its good or not that's up to each person.

Suicide I don't see as a pro.
Rather I like bad consequence of choices as a pro.
Again I don't like games hand holding you.
To me when a game can keep people talking about it, is a good thing.
I think that fact people are talking about this upsetting them a good thing.

Maybe I am just wording things poorly.
It happens, like my bad grammar lol.

I think its a good thing that players get bitten in the ass with their choices.
To me that doesn't happen enough in games.
 

Rutonat

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2020
1,746
3,500
I don't think her killing herself is a good thing.
However when games can grab you and make you feel something is a good thing.
That to me is what matters.

I am not a believer that when I play a game, it needs to be all good because I don't want anything else.
When events play out you cant control, I like, specially when it feels something is going on in the background regardless.
Bad things can be written in to move plot and grab you and keep you talking.

Being a Dik - M.C.'s mother being dead is a frequent point.
Thousand Arms - game is started by M.C.'s father possibly dying (he didn't but you assume it) and home destroyed.
As well as most of the main cast having bad things happen to them pushing them forward.
I'm bad with remembering titles and names as of late, aging is a bitch lol

There was one VN I played where one of the main L.I. jumps off of a bridge and you save her.
She becomes a big focus point in it. I cant remember the name of it right now but it was a good game.
She ends up trying to jump off a second time towards the end and up in the hospital with memory loss.
That game grabs you with in an interesting way.

I could go into many things where "death" could grab you on how you view it.
I like Nea, I am pretty sure I stated that before, but in case I didn't. I do.
I do think with the way its written its close to real, if its good or not that's up to each person.

Suicide I don't see as a pro.
Rather I like bad consequence of choices as a pro.
Again I don't like games hand holding you.
To me when a game can keep people talking about it, is a good thing.
I think that fact people are talking about this upsetting them a good thing.

Maybe I am just wording things poorly.
It happens, like my bad grammar lol.

I think its a good thing that players get bitten in the ass with their choices.
To me that doesn't happen enough in games.
So it was a comment about the realism of the narration rather than the suicide. Got it.
And don't worry, you're not entirely at fault. English isn't my native language, and while I think I can say I'm quite fluent, some subtlety of expressions can sometime escape me completely, depending on phrasing.
It's all good.

But I figured I'd clarify because some people in here genuinely were overjoyed about her killing herself like it's something worth national celebrations.
Some people here need therapy.
 

BurnerGuy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
178
1,167
No saying someone is weird is one thing.
When you are calling them a wierdo, that's actually a directed insult, maybe you keep missing the "o" distinction.
There is actually a difference.
I'm not a fan of insults in general specially online because that's just lighting a match around gasoline.
Once attacks start, its a royal rumble.

I have never said anything towards someone being a wierdo nor have I on this forum directly insulted someone.
Indirectly I will admit to. I will list below.
I think you are mixing up someone posts with mine.
I get attacked very often though lol.

The only time on F95 that I have said something that could be seen as insulting is when I questioned someone for being "gullible" for believing a dev who had a lengthy history of excuses and abandon projects.
That conversation was not under #69

The person arguing me, took his words as proof, when no image was shown.
I gave a very lengthy answer as to why his game being removed from steam was bullshit and that he did it himself.
(his game is still not finished)
As well as pointing out, many other creators who had content removed, show pictures of the email.
I don't like saying negative things about creators, even with him I always make sure to point out,
that he still has talent for writing characters really well.

I listed games which had worse content and with content it had.
Which were still on steam and most I owned but 1.
but I'm waiting for that one to go on sale. lol

There is a few I am waiting to go on sale because I don't feel I can justify the price tag.
You're arguing with someone who misspelled "skipped" and "family". People who failed out of 3rd grade don't usually have the most well thought out opinions.
 
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Dragon59

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 24, 2020
6,699
10,939
You're arguing with someone who misspelled "skipped" and "family". People who failed out of 3rd grade don't usually have the most well thought out opinions.
Perhaps it was indicative of a lack of education or life experience, but I have have him on ignore. The reason he called Nea a "weirdo" was because she was "not normal." I know full well where that kind of mindset regarding what is or is not normal (rather than being less common) leads for those of us who exist on the fringes of what many would call "normal."

Right now, in the US, we are struggling with people who want to impose a normal/not normal label on people. Those people have weaponized the undereducated to incite violence toward those who are at the extremes of the curve.

Hard to just take such uneducated comments lightly.

I would not want to call them Neanderthals, because unlike many of these people, all indications are than the Neanderthal peoples were rich in empathy and compassion.
 
May 12, 2023
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Do you know that if you go the route where you don't turn the trans content off, you can choose, when the time comes, not to have any romance or sex scenes with the trans LI?.
You still get the relationship though, turning it off doesn't actually stop that from happening. Not seeing it doesn't mean it doesn't happen
 

BlasKyau

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 26, 2018
7,837
10,286
You still get the relationship though, turning it off doesn't actually stop that from happening. Not seeing it doesn't mean it doesn't happen
Ok, what I'm saying is that if you leave the trans content active, there comes a time when you have to choose if you want to continue the relationship or if you want Nea to jump off the roof and smash to the ground.
 

Brother Lui

Member
Jan 15, 2019
218
342
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: Funny they have a say "You can see a person's real character on games", someone today wishes a trans character to die what he will wish tomorrow it's an interesting theory and sure it isn't about taste on their bed. Nevermind me I am trying my hard to joke. Perhaps jokes will go on me but sure I find excited how people express their love for freedom and what they could deserve. :unsure: Sure the game has leveled in another status giving thoughts about freedom and how we defend it and sure as hell it succeeded in the most precious matter which involves humanity Freedom where it ends and how.
 

BlasKyau

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 26, 2018
7,837
10,286
alright! look! either try and stop being such thin-skinned bigots or go play something else! she is the central character... deal with it! she was central from day one... should've gone then! enough is enough! all you're you guys are doing is risking things for the rest of us!
Honestly, even though I don't want my MC to have a romance with her, I have to say that her story is the best in the game.
 

Corambis

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2017
1,306
2,174
5 millie scenes next update, sounds nice. Cha'relle though, why is she still in the game? Anyone like her at all?
I think the game suffers from too many love interests as it is, at least relative to the time allocated to them in the game. But it seems that Luxee is trying to even things out somewhat. They appear to be trying to pivot back to the more traditional game they had initially said it was going to be versus something as Nea-centric. I expect Nea to still get the original amount of story planned for her, but now other love interests will get some attention. Nea only has one scene in the next update according to the tracker, and there's also mention of adding "Way to skip any character", although we'll have to see what that ultimately turns out to be. I can think of at least three love interests I'd probably skip if there were other actual content available, because the game is kind of a fetish buffet. If I could actually remember all of the love interests, that number might be higher. Except it's been so long since I've seen some of them and I saw so little of them to begin with.
 
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tyrannicpuppy

Member
Nov 9, 2021
124
383
I think the only reason I ever even spoke to Cha'relle was she was in the way of another memory in that location, so I had to start her path in order to continue the one I actually wanted. There is nothing wrong with her, she just didn't spark joy like most of the others. And then her brother rocks up and starts shit, making her more effort than she was worth. So I'd definitely skip her if I could. But it's not so bad that I'd drop the game or spend ages ranting over it like people do with Nea.
 
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Corambis

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2017
1,306
2,174
I think the only reason I ever even spoke to Cha'relle was she was in the way of another memory in that location, so I had to start her path in order to continue the one I actually wanted. There is nothing wrong with her, she just didn't spark joy like most of the others. And then her brother rocks up and starts shit, making her more effort than she was worth. So I'd definitely skip her if I could. But it's not so bad that I'd drop the game or spend ages ranting over it like people do with Nea.
Yeah, the game is very intertwined like that, with Nea at the center currently. I suspect and I hope that Luxee is moving away from that. Certain love interests make sense that they'd be related, such as those that are related to each other. But other times the path for one character requires interaction with another, and there's no getting around it. That tripped up a lot of people earlier on in the game. We'll have to see what Luxee actually comes up with for the next update. I'm encouraged by the progress tracker, but of course I may be reading too much into it.
 
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