Ren'Py Abandoned Apartment #69 [v0.07] [Luxee]

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chainedpanda

chainedpanda

Active Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Rutonat said:
Yelling at a dev and calling them names is not "criticism".
It's being a fucking dickhead crowned with smegma.

Criticism is saying "I'm not a fan of that part of the content, I think it [reason]. In my opinion, maybe it would be better to [idea]".
That's criticism. That's constructive criticism.

There's a major difference there. That difference is having basic decency when talking to the dev who gives out their hard work for fucking free, instead of acting liek an entitled brat who has the God-given right to demand content be modified to catter to their will.
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The difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism is how the developer interacts with it. By definition, constructive means "Serving to improve". Meaning that criticism can only become constructive the moment the developer uses that criticism to improve the overall product. Thus, it doesn't matter how criticism is articulated, it will never be constructive unless the developer actively does something to address it.

Furthermore, yelling and calling names is 100% constructive based on your definition. If 10 people call me an asshole, it means nothing to me. However, the moment 1 person explains why I'm an asshole, than I then realize why the previous 10 also called me an asshole. Meaning, by your definition, all 11 people gave me constructive criticism. It doesn't matter rather or not I stop being an asshole.

Using your definition, not everything can realistically be constructive criticism anyway. If I were to play a game which heavily features content I dislike, then there is no realistic way for me to articulate an idea on how to change it. The only realistic advice I could provide would be to remake the game without that content. However, doing so would just be outrageous, argueblly even worse than the people you are currently calling dickheads.

Finally, I'm not even going to bother to remark on your ridiculous "free" statement. If that's really what you believe, I think I generally feel sorry for you...
 
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JGNeon

JGNeon

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Feb 24, 2021
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chainedpanda said:
Furthermore, yelling and calling names is 100% constructive based on your definition. If 10 people call me an asshole, it means nothing to me. However, the moment 1 person explains why I'm an asshole, than I then realize why the previous 10 also called me an asshole. Meaning, by your definition, all 11 people gave me constructive criticism. It doesn't matter rather or not I stop being an asshole.
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No, by Rutonat's definition, 1 person gave you constructive criticism, the other 10 were being fucking dickheads crowned with smegma.

Getting exposed to yelling dickheads starts tearing away at your mental health if you have enough exposure to it.

Also, the difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism has less with how someone responds to it, and more with the contents of the message. Including threats or yelling defeats the "constructive" part of criticism, and is more like destructive criticism.
 
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chainedpanda

chainedpanda

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Jun 26, 2017
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JGNeon said:
No, by Rutonat's definition, 1 person gave you constructive criticism, the other 10 were being fucking dickheads crowned with smegma.

Getting exposed to yelling dickheads starts tearing away at your mental health if you have enough exposure to it.

Also, the difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism has less with how someone responds to it, and more with the contents of the message. Including threats or yelling defeats the "constructive" part of criticism, and is more like destructive criticism.
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I see, so definitions don't matter, opinions do. Makes me think back to all the "NTR definition" debates again. I don't believe their version of criticism is the correct way to do things 80% of the time (there are exceptions). However, the fact that you've even acknowledged the fact it is criticism is already enough for me, and that is my final point anyway.
 
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JanusTitor

JanusTitor

New Member
Sep 4, 2017
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In NLP they tend to say that "The meaning of your words is what the recipient perceives". This means that, regardless of your intentions, a badly conveyed message from the recipient's perspective is, ultimately, badly conveyed. Therefore since the dev (and probably any other human being) perceives the behavior of certain people to be that of a dickhead, then those people are ultimately dickheads in the way they communicate.

The dev has no obligation to "tough up" against dickhead behavior or learn to perceive it as constructive criticism, especially since the dickheads are actually demanding things from dev and not the other way around. If you have demands, then learn to communicate in a way the dev perceives as constructive criticism.

TLDR; Be a better human being, it pays off in the long run.
 
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Rutonat

Rutonat

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2020
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chainedpanda said:
The difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism is how the developer interacts with it.
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So your argument is that, even if someone insults the dev, if the devs decides to take the insults to heart and modify/improve the game based on it, that makes it "constructive criticism" ?

chainedpanda said:
Furthermore, yelling and calling names is 100% constructive based on your definition.
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Nah buddy, that's your argument. Mine is that insulting a dev because you hate osmething about their game isn't constructive, it's being an asshole.

And the previous point I quoted from you shows full well that your logic is that insulting a dev is constructive criticism if the devs decides to take it as such.
You're delusional if you think it's up to how the dev reacts, and what it looks like is that you want to ensure you're blameless if you start doing it.

Giving constructive feedback is very simple and needs no insults. If you insult a dev because you didn't like their game, you're not providing feedback, you're acting like a dick. Period.
 
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chainedpanda

chainedpanda

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Jun 26, 2017
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Rutonat said:
So your argument is that, even if someone insults the dev, if the devs decides to take the insults to heart and modify/improve the game based on it, that makes it "constructive criticism" ?

Nah buddy, that's your argument. Mine is that insulting a dev because you hate osmething about their game isn't constructive, it's being an asshole.

And the previous point I quoted from you shows full well that your logic is that insulting a dev is constructive criticism if the devs decides to take it as such.
You're delusional if you think it's up to how the dev reacts, and what it looks like is that you want to ensure you're blameless if you start doing it.

Giving constructive feedback is very simple and needs no insults. If you insult a dev because you didn't like their game, you're not providing feedback, you're acting like a dick. Period.
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This is where this argument began. It all started because someone proclaimed that the criticism the developer received was because "people can't stand diversity". What followed were people proclaiming that people criticizing the game wasn't criticism. It's obvious that by reading my recent replies, the original message has been lost, but my intentions related to this topic remains the same.

The fundamental problem with splitting the "acceptable" and "unacceptable" criticism by judging it as "constructive" is flawed. We as a community obviously don't go by the official definition of "constructive". Since we do not use an official definition, but instead a universal understanding, than the term "constructive criticism" is subjective.

The quote you tagged me in was fairly obviously an attempt to showcase the subjectivity. In the very first line of that quote that you posted says "by your definition". I have also never once claimed people weren't being dicks. I fully suspect that some people were just being assholes just because they could. However, that does NOT mean they weren't being critical, they just weren't being "constructive" based on your universal understanding.

Feedback is feedback. It doesn't matter if it's positive, or negative. It doesn't matter if you like, or dislike it. Criticism is simply criticism. It doesn't really matter if you slap the term constructive onto it. I agree that people shouldn't be a dick for no reason, but fundamentally it remains criticism regardless of the fact.
 
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Spider-Venom

Spider-Venom

Active Member
Mar 26, 2023
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chainedpanda said:
This is where this argument began. It all started because someone proclaimed that the criticism the developer received was because "people can't stand diversity". What followed were people proclaiming that people criticizing the game wasn't criticism. It's obvious that by reading my recent replies, the original message has been lost, but my intentions related to this topic remains the same.

The fundamental problem with splitting the "acceptable" and "unacceptable" criticism by judging it as "constructive" is flawed. We as a community obviously don't go by the official definition of "constructive". Since we do not use an official definition, but instead a universal understanding, than the term "constructive criticism" is subjective.

The quote you tagged me in was fairly obviously an attempt to showcase the subjectivity. In the very first line of that quote that you posted says "by your definition". I have also never once claimed people weren't being dicks. I fully suspect that some people were just being assholes just because they could. However, that does NOT mean they weren't being critical, they just weren't being "constructive" based on your universal understanding.

Feedback is feedback. It doesn't matter if it's positive, or negative. It doesn't matter if you like, or dislike it. Criticism is simply criticism. It doesn't really matter if you slap the term constructive onto it. I agree that people shouldn't be a dick for no reason, but fundamentally it remains criticism regardless of the fact.
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you sound like you lack empathy.
 
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strenif

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
2,910
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Wow. Glad I never started this one. I like his last game but was going to wait a few years for this one to get some content. Check back in and see it was dropped. Feels bad for people who got invested.
 
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Dogorti

Dogorti

Engaged Member
Jan 23, 2021
2,452
9,147
strenif said:
Wow. Glad I never started this one. I like his last game but was going to wait a few years for this one to get some content. Check back in and see it was dropped. Feels bad for people who got invested.
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well not really dropped, just that the development is a disaster, and it's a shame because I think it had much more potential than parental love.
 
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Badjourasmix

Badjourasmix

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 22, 2017
6,966
15,627
Dogorti said:
well not really dropped, just that the development is a disaster, and it's a shame because I think it had much more potential than parental love.
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As much as it pains me to say this, I think this game will eventually be abandoned for real. We are at a point where we are lucky if we even get 1 update per year and the updates for this game aren't known for being big. Unless Luxee suddenly stars releasing updates more often, I don't think this game will ever be finished. And if it does it will probably be very rushed.
 
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4.00 star(s) 70 Votes