Ren'Py Abandoned Apartment #69 [v0.07] [Luxee]

[chainedpanda]

that's because he was on his way to his grandmother's house. in this story, we're moving away from home.

it sounds like you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

You claimed that those who criticized the game were just starting shit for now reason. My argument is, and always has been that their criticism is justified, even if neither of us agree with them.

In addition, your not even talking about the topic anymore. I answered any questions and criticisms you made with reason and examples. The only reason you think so now is because you're either bored, or you've run out of arguments. I can literally argue this topic forever, because there is a legit answer to them even if you don't like it.

I don't think this is at all true outside of games with quite small casts of LIs, where you can hardly do otherwise.

Nah, I disagree with that too. The difference is that each individual character in a large cast seems less important compared to those in smaller casts. This doesn't necessarily make them unimportant, but it is common for them to become less important over time as they start to blend in with the other characters.

A big troupe for this is that many games utilize one or two characters to act as "guides" in the early game. They tell the player/protagonist various facts and such and eventually fade in with the rest of the group. While they may seem unimportant by the 6th-7th update, they were important for the 1st-2nd.

This is just one example, but I have others. I don't think I really need to argue my opinion anymore since it's clear the other dude gave up. So if someone else wants to chime in with their anti-criticism statements, I don't really see a need to discuss farther.

 

[Spider-Venom]

You claimed that those who criticized the game were just starting shit for now reason. My argument is, and always has been that their criticism is justified, even if neither of us agree with them.

In addition, your not even talking about the topic anymore. I answered any questions and criticisms you made with reason and examples. The only reason you think so now is because you're either bored, or you've run out of arguments. I can literally argue this topic forever, because there is a legit answer to them even if you don't like it.

I never said criticism in itself was bad. we learned about Nea being trans FROM DAY ONE...and it's been the same people saying the shit after every update. if there was a game that I hated it and I followed it and just bashed it after every update and threatening the enjoyment of others... as much as the mods here piss me off with their loose rules -- I'd hope they'd ban me.

 

[Pantisocrat]

Nah, I disagree with that too.

Obviously - but I'm thinking of, for example, Dreams of Desire and Timestamps: Unconditional Love. Both of those have sister characters who are massively important both as drivers of plot and as LIs. And in both cases, they simply didn't appear in the initial release.

 

[Homealone]

good game, shame it's abandoned now.

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

good game, shame it's abandoned now.

Not Abandoned anymore. That's just the tag here. F95 is not the oracle of all perversity.

 

[rambo455]

so this game gets abandoned tags every time inbetween updates now ?

 

[Badjourasmix]

Yea if the dev goes radio silent for more than 3 months that is what happens.

 

[rambo455]

They have to complain? Someone is forcing them to behave like an entitled Karen, Kevin or Filius Canis? Is there something we can do to help them have autonomy again?

Seriously, If you don't like a book by an author, don't read it. If you're not in a literature class, no one is forcing you to read it. I seriously doubt any college has a class on AVNs, so I would think that no one is being forced to read/play this story.
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looks like one of the assholes in the deluca family.

 

[Rutonat]

You know, I'm in support of the content everyone hates and would love for it to come back. But, to claim those complaining just "can't handle diversity", you could make an identical statement to the dev who "can't handle criticism".

If the reason they quit is because they truly couldn't handle critics, than I don't really care anymore. While I'd love to see the characters story continue, I'm not sure I'd want to see the dev as a person continue.

Yelling at a dev and calling them names is not "criticism".
It's being a fucking dickhead crowned with smegma.

Criticism is saying "I'm not a fan of that part of the content, I think it [reason]. In my opinion, maybe it would be better to [idea]".
That's criticism. That's constructive criticism.

There's a major difference there. That difference is having basic decency when talking to the dev who gives out their hard work for fucking free, instead of acting liek an entitled brat who has the God-given right to demand content be modified to catter to their will.

 

[chainedpanda]

Yelling at a dev and calling them names is not "criticism".
It's being a fucking dickhead crowned with smegma.

Criticism is saying "I'm not a fan of that part of the content, I think it [reason]. In my opinion, maybe it would be better to [idea]".
That's criticism. That's constructive criticism.

There's a major difference there. That difference is having basic decency when talking to the dev who gives out their hard work for fucking free, instead of acting liek an entitled brat who has the God-given right to demand content be modified to catter to their will.

The difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism is how the developer interacts with it. By definition, constructive means "Serving to improve". Meaning that criticism can only become constructive the moment the developer uses that criticism to improve the overall product. Thus, it doesn't matter how criticism is articulated, it will never be constructive unless the developer actively does something to address it.

Furthermore, yelling and calling names is 100% constructive based on your definition. If 10 people call me an asshole, it means nothing to me. However, the moment 1 person explains why I'm an asshole, than I then realize why the previous 10 also called me an asshole. Meaning, by your definition, all 11 people gave me constructive criticism. It doesn't matter rather or not I stop being an asshole.

Using your definition, not everything can realistically be constructive criticism anyway. If I were to play a game which heavily features content I dislike, then there is no realistic way for me to articulate an idea on how to change it. The only realistic advice I could provide would be to remake the game without that content. However, doing so would just be outrageous, argueblly even worse than the people you are currently calling dickheads.

Finally, I'm not even going to bother to remark on your ridiculous "free" statement. If that's really what you believe, I think I generally feel sorry for you...

 

[Cannabix]

Almost a year now... Really wish there would be an update any time soon.

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

Almost a year now... Really wish there would be an update any time soon.

If we've waited that long, we can endure a little longer for the next update.

 

[JGNeon]

Furthermore, yelling and calling names is 100% constructive based on your definition. If 10 people call me an asshole, it means nothing to me. However, the moment 1 person explains why I'm an asshole, than I then realize why the previous 10 also called me an asshole. Meaning, by your definition, all 11 people gave me constructive criticism. It doesn't matter rather or not I stop being an asshole.

No, by Rutonat's definition, 1 person gave you constructive criticism, the other 10 were being fucking dickheads crowned with smegma.

Getting exposed to yelling dickheads starts tearing away at your mental health if you have enough exposure to it.

Also, the difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism has less with how someone responds to it, and more with the contents of the message. Including threats or yelling defeats the "constructive" part of criticism, and is more like destructive criticism.

 

[chainedpanda]

No, by Rutonat's definition, 1 person gave you constructive criticism, the other 10 were being fucking dickheads crowned with smegma.

Getting exposed to yelling dickheads starts tearing away at your mental health if you have enough exposure to it.

Also, the difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism has less with how someone responds to it, and more with the contents of the message. Including threats or yelling defeats the "constructive" part of criticism, and is more like destructive criticism.

I see, so definitions don't matter, opinions do. Makes me think back to all the "NTR definition" debates again. I don't believe their version of criticism is the correct way to do things 80% of the time (there are exceptions). However, the fact that you've even acknowledged the fact it is criticism is already enough for me, and that is my final point anyway.

 

[JanusTitor]

In NLP they tend to say that "The meaning of your words is what the recipient perceives". This means that, regardless of your intentions, a badly conveyed message from the recipient's perspective is, ultimately, badly conveyed. Therefore since the dev (and probably any other human being) perceives the behavior of certain people to be that of a dickhead, then those people are ultimately dickheads in the way they communicate.

The dev has no obligation to "tough up" against dickhead behavior or learn to perceive it as constructive criticism, especially since the dickheads are actually demanding things from dev and not the other way around. If you have demands, then learn to communicate in a way the dev perceives as constructive criticism.

TLDR; Be a better human being, it pays off in the long run.

 

[Rutonat]

The difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism is how the developer interacts with it.

So your argument is that, even if someone insults the dev, if the devs decides to take the insults to heart and modify/improve the game based on it, that makes it "constructive criticism" ?

Furthermore, yelling and calling names is 100% constructive based on your definition.

Nah buddy, that's your argument. Mine is that insulting a dev because you hate osmething about their game isn't constructive, it's being an asshole.

And the previous point I quoted from you shows full well that your logic is that insulting a dev is constructive criticism if the devs decides to take it as such.
You're delusional if you think it's up to how the dev reacts, and what it looks like is that you want to ensure you're blameless if you start doing it.

Giving constructive feedback is very simple and needs no insults. If you insult a dev because you didn't like their game, you're not providing feedback, you're acting like a dick. Period.

 

[chainedpanda]

So your argument is that, even if someone insults the dev, if the devs decides to take the insults to heart and modify/improve the game based on it, that makes it "constructive criticism" ?

Nah buddy, that's your argument. Mine is that insulting a dev because you hate osmething about their game isn't constructive, it's being an asshole.

And the previous point I quoted from you shows full well that your logic is that insulting a dev is constructive criticism if the devs decides to take it as such.
You're delusional if you think it's up to how the dev reacts, and what it looks like is that you want to ensure you're blameless if you start doing it.

Giving constructive feedback is very simple and needs no insults. If you insult a dev because you didn't like their game, you're not providing feedback, you're acting like a dick. Period.

This is where this argument began. It all started because someone proclaimed that the criticism the developer received was because "people can't stand diversity". What followed were people proclaiming that people criticizing the game wasn't criticism. It's obvious that by reading my recent replies, the original message has been lost, but my intentions related to this topic remains the same.

The fundamental problem with splitting the "acceptable" and "unacceptable" criticism by judging it as "constructive" is flawed. We as a community obviously don't go by the official definition of "constructive". Since we do not use an official definition, but instead a universal understanding, than the term "constructive criticism" is subjective.

The quote you tagged me in was fairly obviously an attempt to showcase the subjectivity. In the very first line of that quote that you posted says "by your definition". I have also never once claimed people weren't being dicks. I fully suspect that some people were just being assholes just because they could. However, that does NOT mean they weren't being critical, they just weren't being "constructive" based on your universal understanding.

Feedback is feedback. It doesn't matter if it's positive, or negative. It doesn't matter if you like, or dislike it. Criticism is simply criticism. It doesn't really matter if you slap the term constructive onto it. I agree that people shouldn't be a dick for no reason, but fundamentally it remains criticism regardless of the fact.

 

[Spider-Venom]

This is where this argument began. It all started because someone proclaimed that the criticism the developer received was because "people can't stand diversity". What followed were people proclaiming that people criticizing the game wasn't criticism. It's obvious that by reading my recent replies, the original message has been lost, but my intentions related to this topic remains the same.

The fundamental problem with splitting the "acceptable" and "unacceptable" criticism by judging it as "constructive" is flawed. We as a community obviously don't go by the official definition of "constructive". Since we do not use an official definition, but instead a universal understanding, than the term "constructive criticism" is subjective.

The quote you tagged me in was fairly obviously an attempt to showcase the subjectivity. In the very first line of that quote that you posted says "by your definition". I have also never once claimed people weren't being dicks. I fully suspect that some people were just being assholes just because they could. However, that does NOT mean they weren't being critical, they just weren't being "constructive" based on your universal understanding.

Feedback is feedback. It doesn't matter if it's positive, or negative. It doesn't matter if you like, or dislike it. Criticism is simply criticism. It doesn't really matter if you slap the term constructive onto it. I agree that people shouldn't be a dick for no reason, but fundamentally it remains criticism regardless of the fact.

you sound like you lack empathy.

 

[tmu500]

Almost a year now... Really wish there would be an update any time soon.

hopefully soon

 

[Savor]

6 years since it came out, if it's not done by now all those supporters got 100% ripped off

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there is noone ripped off, he only charges if he updates. you can read it on his patreon.