VN Ren'Py Astreon [Ch.2 v0.2.5] [NoGlory]

[NoGloryx]

You want the text speed all the way LEFT (unlike every other Renpy VN ever.)

Let's just say I just didn't know how it worked in other avns, so I messed up a bit with it, oops.....

 

[NoGloryx]

NoGloryx is what I call, with all due respect, a “HS2 virtuoso”. His renders and scenes using that program are excellent. But, like almost all HS2 virtuosos, when they shape their scenes in Ren'Py, the quality drops a lot. In other words, this kind of developers have a hard time, if not creating, at least telling a good story. The only one that is excellent in both ways is garbage.kun and his excellent game. In fact, NoGloryx reminds me of another HS2 virtuoso whose game “may fly” if, like this one, more than well written (that too), it was well narrated. I also wrote a long review of that game. Both games have a very similar theme and aesthetic, and both make the same mistakes. The key word in both cases (and more) is “storytelling”. I recommend NoGloryx to read the FAQ of this article. And he might also be interested in buying some of the books that appear in it to learn how to narrate, write, structure, etc. a story.

You must be registered to see the links

Lovely will read them in the near future.

 

[NoGloryx]

Hey NoGloryx,

First the good, I like the theme and style of the renders and story. Lewd scenes are nice too. Definitely a lot going for this VN.

On the downside, sadly, in my opinion, the below kinda sums up much of the game:
View attachment 4775294

Characters talk a lot but mostly say little of interest about themselves, their motives, the world lore or anything meaningful. I'm part way through chapter 2 now and its been a string of standing around yapping/arguing like kids, then someone suggests not doing that but they do it some more anyway. I'd forgive people for thinking you intentionally created your characters to be annoying at this point.

I don't want to just complain of course, so my input would be:

• Each bit of text and dialogue should be imparting something useful/interesting to the reader (like the stuff I listed in the above paragraph). Many times it seemed like characters were talking because they like sound of their own voice almost.
• Characters should speak and act according to their backgrounds (and be consistent within their motivation and the story).
  • Most of your characters so far are, or implied to be, trained, current/former, military types, but except Miriel, they all seem while on mission (an important, time sensitive one) to act like petulant children with poor focus on, and no apparent expediency toward, completing that mission.
  • Where the MC is guided by Flora to the outpost is really well done for example, but act II especially has been such a drag to read.
• Sometime the dialogue is a bit... verbose, lets say. Leaves me thinking something important is meant to be learned but it reads akin to Shakespeare and I'm tuning out or missing something. Example is flora asking Ember about the ark, she three times say "but yeah, what is it" and honestly I'm still not sure because ember gives the weirdest answers.

Btw, regarding the flashbacks for Olivia; one shows MC finding her in the street (which seems to be their first meeting) and then the next one shows her being outfitted to work in the cafe and MC tells wife something about her just walking in and asking for a job when asking where MC found her (eg. seems like they've not met). Am I missing something there?

PS: If this come across as rude or harsh, sorry, but I've just written it part way through act II from frustration at the characters but I aimed for it to be constructive and helpful for improvement as overall I like the VN and see potential.

Honestly, I don't know what to say to that except that I'll work on it. Anyway, it's all pure and simple. And honestly, I'm very happy to hear so much criticism from everyone, I see that many people care about my work (at least I hope for that).

 

[NoGloryx]

You just mentioned some of the most important elements of good storytelling. That's why I recommend reading the FAQs from the article in my previous post (the 5 C's of storytelling, the 4 P's of storytelling...). Scenes and the dialogue within them must have a purpose, a meaning. Otherwise, they either don't belong or something is missing.

When starting a story, it's recommended that you FIRST create a biography for the characters, as detailed as possible. Some successful professionals even talk about writing three pages or more just to define a character. I'm also working on a visual novel. And this way (among many others), both the scenes and the dialogue come to me naturally. I'm even surprised at how easy it's been for me. Maybe I have a talent for writing and storytelling. Or maybe, before starting, I spent a loooong time planning the overall plot, the scenes and its characters. That last part isn't a "maybe", it's a certainty.

I edit to add: one of the keys to telling a story is for the writer to get into the characters and scenes. He must be each of the characters in each of the scenes. He must feel and understand their words, their actions, their motivations for doing or saying something... or not. If he does it this way, everything will flow naturally, and therefore everything will be easier.

I have a detailed description of them, and I generally follow it. Except I don't follow it all the way through, or rather, it's just hard for me to do so. The text ends up being one-size-fits-all. But I'm working on it.

 

[NoGloryx]

Based on what Rey says, and how she's dressed, she's definitely a stripper, not a geisha. Saying that they don't normally sleep with customers is something every stripper says when prostituting themselves. If you turn her down, she also makes comments that heavily imply that she regularly sleeps with customers for money.

Let's just say this will all be described later. Either in the codex or in the game itself.

 

[TsubameYui]

1. Technically, you can go lower, to the right value, if you pick out all the negative answers while talking to Astoria, and don't dodge the... Let's say her attack.About choice, yeah, I understand, than for this I need to make a different route. And for all the choice we have now are, shall we say, not exactly what I originally wanted. Except that in 0.1 there are two key choices, which are more or less spelled out well.

2. Yes I admit it wasn't the best idea to make choices for characters you don't know. And overall, with Anya, I've changed my approach. But with Ivy, I've left it that way for now, cause it's consequences will affect the future.

3. And about Li, I tried to create a darker environment, because there are no perfect people, but in the end I did not realise my idea as I wanted. I have to make up for it as the project progresses.

Yeah, I did try doing all the bad choices with Astoria, and even tried not dodging, but didn't go much farther down that path before backing up, as it seemed like a lot more information was to be gained by appeasing her.

As for Anya, I think a brief flashback scene that shows the player that she and MC already know each other would be a big improvement. It was far too easy to just walk away, because it seemed like she was a total stranger, and if you walk away, she almost entirely disappears from the game. The only time you see her again is in an Olivia flashback, but if the player never tried saving her, they can't even tell it's the same girl. You may also consider adding a couple lines of dialogue(no renders needed) when MC and Olivia are talking in the car or forest, where Olivia seems concerned about Anya not coming home, and MC could mention that he last saw her surrounded by guys in the alley. That might convince players to backtrack and choose to rescue her.

You did a really good job setting the scene of the other world's dark/dystopian environment, and I really love how Miriel comes across as a tortured soul with a heart of gold. She's probably my favorite LI so far, with Olivia being a close second. Lora would probably in 3rd for me right now, but only because, despite being married for years, we the players know very little about her. Even MC seems to be in the dark about who she really is, since she seemed to be keeping a lot about herself and her work secret from him.

Miriel is another example, though, of rejecting an LI causing major story content to be skipped. Missing her final scene seems detrimental to the story progression/exposition. It might be a good idea to give an alternate version, where MC is still invited to her home, but without all the flirting. Again, it could probably be done without making any new renders. Just cut some out and adjust the dialogue.

All in all, I love your game. The story is compelling, new, and unique. It definitely stands on its own and is worth playing even without the sexual content. Please keep up the great work. I'm looking forward to the next update.

 

[Danv]

dev, don't use python words to define characters - it messes game bad, if not right now - will definitely in the future
define re = Character('Ray', color="#5566aa") # just change to "ray" for example

 

[Jnx]

It's too early for a review, but this is disappointing.
The UI, presentation, and visuals are all a cut above most other shovelware on this site. I cannot deny that.

But this is not dialogue. This is not story progression. You have characters saying things and expositing lore, poorly. You do not have any idea of what is happening. You have no frame of reference as to what anything means. You aren't given a clear passage of events. Characters just say things to each other and you're supposed to nod your head as if it all makes sense.

And the characters? They keep trying to say "don't be clever" or something as if MC has ever acted clever? MC is so uncharacterized I can't even believe he has feelings for his family. He's said some semi-deep things, sure. But he suddenly has a broken eye. Has a grandkid after 8 years. You, again, have no frame of reference as to who he is and what he's been through. Just that stuff has happened and he's a little sad. Never mind the other characters that are just there to tell you how they feel about MC.

I can only think of a few other times I've been this frustrated by story and dialogue but this one is the most frustrating because I see that they wanted it to be something but it just feels like a bunch of empty dialogue thrown at you to appear deep and superfluous animations to look like it has great production quality.

With intros, I give the benefit of the doubt. They're supposed to be a hook then the rest should reel you in. But it's like an alien abducts you, gives you a tour and says "This is a wambledamper. It goplefies the fwopplers to hubulate the gorbogs." None of that makes sense, none of that gives me a frame of reference in common terms as to what that is. Like, great, MC has been transported to a different world. But all you're given is that there "is and isn't magic" and "blood is power" and "people are in power but others want it, but lets move on because we suddenly have a time limit for no reason." Hell, MC goes on this dumb quest with no information as is for no reason other than "the guy that died in the intro is still alive." We, the player, didn't know him, why he needed to die, how he survived, what he's done, why MC wants him dead, or even if it affects MC that he's alive. And that's just broad strokes.

This is so disappointing and I honestly hope it improves.

 

[NoGloryx]

It's too early for a review, but this is disappointing.
The UI, presentation, and visuals are all a cut above most other shovelware on this site. I cannot deny that.

But this is not dialogue. This is not story progression. You have characters saying things and expositing lore, poorly. You do not have any idea of what is happening. You have no frame of reference as to what anything means. You aren't given a clear passage of events. Characters just say things to each other and you're supposed to nod your head as if it all makes sense.

And the characters? They keep trying to say "don't be clever" or something as if MC has ever acted clever? MC is so uncharacterized I can't even believe he has feelings for his family. He's said some semi-deep things, sure. But he suddenly has a broken eye. Has a grandkid after 8 years. You, again, have no frame of reference as to who he is and what he's been through. Just that stuff has happened and he's a little sad. Never mind the other characters that are just there to tell you how they feel about MC.

I can only think of a few other times I've been this frustrated by story and dialogue but this one is the most frustrating because I see that they wanted it to be something but it just feels like a bunch of empty dialogue thrown at you to appear deep and superfluous animations to look like it has great production quality.

With intros, I give the benefit of the doubt. They're supposed to be a hook then the rest should reel you in. But it's like an alien abducts you, gives you a tour and says "This is a wambledamper. It goplefies the fwopplers to hubulate the gorbogs." None of that makes sense, none of that gives me a frame of reference in common terms as to what that is. Like, great, MC has been transported to a different world. But all you're given is that there "is and isn't magic" and "blood is power" and "people are in power but others want it, but lets move on because we suddenly have a time limit for no reason." Hell, MC goes on this dumb quest with no information as is for no reason other than "the guy that died in the intro is still alive." We, the player, didn't know him, why he needed to die, how he survived, what he's done, why MC wants him dead, or even if it affects MC that he's alive. And that's just broad strokes.

This is so disappointing and I honestly hope it improves.

I become a master of disappointment, YAY! Right? RIght.

But yeah, most likely I'll bring back the previous dialogue for 0.1, along with reworking the prologue. And in theory - it should get better. In the next week we'll see if I've been able to improve these aspects or not

 

[NoGloryx]

Btw, if who interesting Chinese version in my itch, have old version for 0.1 and 0.2. And also have English translation, so technically it's can give you guys more information

 

[Dactess]

Well I am enjoying it. I had some issues with the prologue back when that was released but I can already see improvements. Curious to see what you manage to create.

I kind of just helped Anya the first time and haven't actually went with the other choice, walking away kind of seemed like a dick thing to do lol I do agree with TsubameYui, letting the player know MC knows her might be good, even if it is just MC thinking "isn't that Anya" when he sees what's going on. Will give players more reason to check it out. I did like her character though, just kind of curious where things go with her after the bathroom scene.

Same with Ivy, after the talk with Miriel, leaving an Elf in a situation like that kind of felt like a dick thing to do so yeah stepped in. Not really sure if she is a LI though, I kind of assumed she was a side girl. Admittedly I am kind of basing that off the character page though so I don't really know who is a main LI and who isn't. I don't really mind the prostitution angle if she isn't a full blown LI. Adds a reason for early game sex scenes, gives an opportunity to show off animation without making the main girls seem too easy.

Kind of curious how things will go with Lora, mainly because I do like Olivia, so it sucks that MC is hung up on Lora still lol but guess I gotta wait and see how that plays out. Same goes for Miriel. But that usually happens with VN's that start out with the MC in a relationship (at least for me). Kind of hit or miss if the audience likes the character, and well interactions have been slim. Currently only know she went missing and was lying to MC lol but curious to see how she is...

That pretty much covers the characters for me (atm at least). I did have some issue with pacing and writing but I will let people smarter than I give constructive criticism on that. Like I said, I have already seen some improvements so I am looking forward to seeing more. And well you already got the animations down, in my opinion.

That was a bit of a ramble but I just wanted to put that I am enjoying it, so yeah, keep working on it and I will keep following.

 

[Jnx]

I become a master of disappointment, YAY! Right? RIght.

But yeah, most likely I'll bring back the previous dialogue for 0.1, along with reworking the prologue. And in theory - it should get better. In the next week we'll see if I've been able to improve these aspects or not

I don't mean any of this in a combative or derogatory way, either. I sort of understand what the story is trying to do, but it feels like there's so much information straight up cut out of the story. I'm still not all the way through the game yet and there's nothing but questions I have as nothing has been explained in any meaningful capacity.

If you want, I can go back through and give you notes on how and/or why things don't work and my thoughts on how to make it better. I see genuine effort here, but if you actually read this and don't have the story knowledge of the future, like the writer would, a reader just feels lost. I have no idea how much could have changed to just substitute an older version of story making it better. And no matter what I do wish you the best moving forward.

 

[NoGloryx]

I don't mean any of this in a combative or derogatory way, either. I sort of understand what the story is trying to do, but it feels like there's so much information straight up cut out of the story. I'm still not all the way through the game yet and there's nothing but questions I have as nothing has been explained in any meaningful capacity.

If you want, I can go back through and give you notes on how and/or why things don't work and my thoughts on how to make it better. I see genuine effort here, but if you actually read this and don't have the story knowledge of the future, like the writer would, a reader just feels lost. I have no idea how much could have changed to just substitute an older version of story making it better. And no matter what I do wish you the best moving forward.

Let's put it this way, name me what information you'd like to hear ahead of time to make this or that moment work better. For your opinion, would be very appreciated.

Because at the moment I'm just improving the game, and adding different scenes to improve the understanding and motivations of the characters. And it would be nice to hear in which moments the collapse happened

 

[Jnx]

Let's put it this way, name me what information you'd like to hear ahead of time to make this or that moment work better. For your opinion, would be very appreciated.

Because at the moment I'm just improving the game, and adding different scenes to improve the understanding and motivations of the characters. And it would be nice to hear in which moments the collapse happened

The problem is it starts when MC contrivedly saves a girl we still know nothing about, get a blowjob scene that comes out of nowhere, then the next day they drive a car from suburban streets and magically into a forest that "isn't on any map." And all of the dialogue after they're in a new world sounds like they're talking past each other. But, magically, miriel is in love with him for no reason and MC has insight into a world he's been conscious in for less than 24 hours. And it only compounds from there. And you CONSTANTLY have the "lore updated" or whatever but you can't access the lore until the last 10 minutes of current content. And I haven't read the lore yet, but if that contains all the necessary information I need to NOT be frustrated by the writing, then it all needs to come out in dialogue.

 

[NoGloryx]

The problem is it starts when MC contrivedly saves a girl we still know nothing about, get a blowjob scene that comes out of nowhere, then the next day they drive a car from suburban streets and magically into a forest that "isn't on any map." And all of the dialogue after they're in a new world sounds like they're talking past each other. But, magically, miriel is in love with him for no reason and MC has insight into a world he's been conscious in for less than 24 hours. And it only compounds from there. And you CONSTANTLY have the "lore updated" or whatever but you can't access the lore until the last 10 minutes of current content. And I haven't read the lore yet, but if that contains all the necessary information I need to NOT be frustrated by the writing, then it all needs to come out in dialogue.

Lovely.

The first scenes up to the moment with the ship, I have already redone, removing first lewd scene, for... Then it was done by force, just to keep it simple.

About the dialogues themselves. I read was that each dialogue should be like a verbal altercation between the characters to make it more interesting to watch.

But I didn't take into account the fact that it was desirable to add information to it all.... In the end it turned out that everyone argues with everyone else, and the players do not understand why....

But, I`ll fix it, thank you for your help

 

[Sossig]

The game throws up an "OSError: [Errno 25] Inappropriate ioctl for device" traceback at launch on Linux unless Astreon.sh is executed from terminal, the reason being username detection for that "I found your real name" bit in the tutorial.

Replacing this...

import os
user_name = os.getlogin()

With this...

import getpass
user_name = getpass.getuser()

Makes the game still work properly on Windows (I tested on 10) while allowing me to launch it on Linux by double-clicking the shell script without crashing on startup.

 

[mpekas]

File "script.rpyc", line 2186, in script
raise Exception("Sayer '%s' is not defined." % who)

In line 2186 of script.rpy, cc should be changed to CC to avoid this error.

 

[Kaasje404]

Lovely.

The first scenes up to the moment with the ship, I have already redone, removing first lewd scene, for... Then it was done by force, just to keep it simple.

About the dialogues themselves. I read was that each dialogue should be like a verbal altercation between the characters to make it more interesting to watch.

But I didn't take into account the fact that it was desirable to add information to it all.... In the end it turned out that everyone argues with everyone else, and the players do not understand why....

But, I`ll fix it, thank you for your help

It's amazing that you are willing to listen to feedback!

 

[mpekas]

Time difference between earth and wherever the MC is, doesn't really make sense.

He was out/being-worked-on for 2 months while 8 months passed on earth but then he's told time passes slower on earth?

 

[Raziel_8]

Time difference between earth and wherever the MC is, doesn't really make sense.

He was out/being-worked-on for 2 months while 8 months passed on earth but then he's told time passes slower on earth?

Yeah, that is also what i didn't quite understood. As long as they are not near a black hole or something similiar, there should be no time difference just because they are far appart, or was that supposed to be the wormhole travel ? Thought to me it sounded that time there is in general moving slower than on earth.