Ren'Py Completed Babysitter [Final v0.2.2b] [T4bbo]

[armion82]

(Post mostly in jest but a bit serious as well)

I love the people that are like "NTR is horrible, how dare you! Do it and I'm done playing!"

1. It's a story. I still don't see how anyone plays a VN with themselves as the actual MC. I can't do that so I want to see and am down for whatever! LOL. Pass Christine and Jess around because...

2. ...those that hate NTR don't see the double standard of gross that is being the dude trying to fuck their niece. In this story the MC is the worst person of the bunch! He's scamming on and trying to bang his niece LOL. Let's break it down.

Robert's "crime" is being a single, adult man that wants to fuck a hot, single, adult woman. Oh, and being black. Apparently that's a big kink/problem in the NTR and Anti-NTR community.
So, he's just a big cock'd black dude trying to fuck. He's rude to you? Well, you're cock blocking him! I'd tell a pervy-ass uncle to eat shit as well if blocking me that much. Robert's crime is wanting to fuck. Ok, ok...he's a scumbag but he isn't to her openly! He *thinks* about how he's gonna wreck her pussy. Ya know, like a single dude thinks about a woman he wants to fuck.

Silver? His crime is being a wealthy asshole that wants to fuck a hot, young woman like all wealthy (and not wealthy) dudes.
Ok, he's a tad molest-ish (lol) but dude's just trying to fuck. Both he and Robert don't force her, btw! She says no and they stop but both make her first time pretty enjoyable. She likes it.

You? MC? Your niece moves in and you immediately want to fuck her. Not only that but you use all of your guile and grown man's wit to steer her away from other men that aren't her uncle. You invade her space, molest her, steal her underwear and spy on her remotely. You plot to fuck her friend and when you finally do fuck your niece you have to actively try to NOT rail her out on her first time. Like, without a specific set of moves your character makes her first time miserable!

But NTR is bad. Her fucking Robert or Silver is bad. Ok. No, you're a piece of shit if you DON'T want to pass her around! How dare you not pass her around! Lmao

Well I want Robet and Silver behind bars not because of the NTR/that actualy is not NTR/ but because of the real crimes they do.

 

[fiuojui]

Release time of version 0.1.7: 21.12.2018

Maybe to night

 

[ViperDevlin44]

Interesting takes and I like the civil discussion, guys. This is fun.

To me that's not even NTR (or maybe I think the definition needs updated).
To me, it seems NTR (Netorare) tends to involve one or all of 4 things in the VN community:

1. Cuckolding - a partner taking pleasure in harming/insulting you by fucking another person with your knowledge AND/OR you taking pleasure in your partner fucking someone else with your knowledge. Jealousy being the key emotion attached to cuckolding.

2. Cheating - an unfaithful partner fucking another person with the intent of you not knowing. Nobody but the cheater derives pleasure from this and not at your expense. Jealousy and anger is usually attached to it.

3. Rape - someone being flat-out taken against everyone's will by sexual assault/force. Mostly anger - if not rage - attached.

4. Loss/Failure - simply having other characters sleep with a character you as the player want to fuck exclusively. Jealousy and sadness attached to it.

I find people use NTR to explain all of those and I don't think that it should apply to all 4. To me, in the hypothetical question posed to you, I don't think that should be labeled anything but a story element. I mean, in real-life we see people we like or liked at one point go with another partner. Nobody gets everyone they like or even love. That's not any of #1-3. I don't agree with #4 being within NTR but I guess that NTR is more a sensation than hard definition, right?

I just think that those 4 things aren't mutually exclusive. They can all go together but don't have to so to me NTR is ultimately about jealousy and I don't get jealous playing VNs so I want shit to get wild! Haha

As i understand Ntr is all about making you the player feel emotion granted like in real life as long as your not a collasal dick to either jess or chris you should be fine

 

[RonnieH]

Well I want Robet and Silver behind bars not because of the NTR/that actualy is not NTR/ but because of the real crimes they do.

Elaborate.

 

[SoZ333]

Elaborate.

Did you even read what those two were up to or were you just skipping all dialogue to get to the naughty bits..

 

[khumak]

If it is due to the choices i made then no i do not care my main problem with ntr in general is when you can't win like no matter what you do you lose the girl even if you play perfect all the right choices you still lose the girl. I get it i do some people like ntr im just not one of them though i suppose if the other guy took chris and treated her right i mind not mind so much.

This is actually similar to the objection that I have to it in most of the games I've seen it in. If the choices I'm making as MC paint him as a total dickhead then it feels like those NTR scenes are deserved and I have no problem with it and can even enjoy it. If I'm playing MC like he actually has some empathy for and actually cares about the girls he's after then it feels like more of a slap in the face if there are inevitable NTR scenes because it just feels like I'm going to "lose" no matter what I do.

I'm hoping to get the balance set up for the NTR scenes I do for my mod so that if you end up with an NTR scene the player feels like the choices they made justify that outcome rather than being inevitable. And I actually think Babysitter does a good job overall in that respect anyway. There's really only 1 point in the game where it felt like they crossed the line a bit and they do still give you an out even then, although Robert is still guaranteed to "get some" before you can stop him.

One thing the vanilla game doesn't seem to do which I was actually a bit surprised at was to have the friend vs horny scores affect how likely NTR was to happen. IMO a lot of the types of things that raise horny score in the game are pretty creepy and might legitimately lead to NTR. The friend path I would think less likely to lead to that.

In any case, I'm going to try setting some scenes up in my mod the way it makes sense for me and see if people like it.

 

[ViperDevlin44]

This is actually similar to the objection that I have to it in most of the games I've seen it in. If the choices I'm making as MC paint him as a total dickhead then it feels like those NTR scenes are deserved and I have no problem with it and can even enjoy it. If I'm playing MC like he actually has some empathy for and actually cares about the girls he's after then it feels like more of a slap in the face if there are inevitable NTR scenes because it just feels like I'm going to "lose" no matter what I do.

I'm hoping to get the balance set up for the NTR scenes I do for my mod so that if you end up with an NTR scene the player feels like the choices they made justify that outcome rather than being inevitable. And I actually think Babysitter does a good job overall in that respect anyway. There's really only 1 point in the game where it felt like they crossed the line a bit and they do still give you an out even then, although Robert is still guaranteed to "get some" before you can stop him.

One thing the vanilla game doesn't seem to do which I was actually a bit surprised at was to have the friend vs horny scores affect how likely NTR was to happen. IMO a lot of the types of things that raise horny score in the game are pretty creepy and might legitimately lead to NTR. The friend path I would think less likely to lead to that.

In any case, I'm going to try setting some scenes up in my mod the way it makes sense for me and see if people like it.

Sounds good i do get it though you would think with a high friend score ntr would be less likely to occur

 

[RonnieH]

Did you even read what those two were up to or were you just skipping all dialogue to get to the naughty bits..

There is DIALOGUE in this VN?

 

[Dolphin3000]

(Post mostly in jest but a bit serious as well)
...
2. ...those that hate NTR don't see the double standard of gross that is being the dude trying to fuck their niece. In this story the MC is the worst person of the bunch! He's scamming on and trying to bang his niece LOL. Let's break it down.

It doesn't need to be like that. The MC can be the best person in the game. He wasn't trying to 'fuck his niece', he discovered he was IN LOVE with a girl who happened to be his niece. Sex was a consequence.
To be in love with his niece is it right? Is it wrong? It depends on the culture, so it can be irrelevant in some tribes, it can be frowned upon in other societies, and it can even be a taboo. But true love knows no boundaries!

You? MC? Your niece moves in and you immediately want to fuck her. Not only that but you use all of your guile and grown man's wit to steer her away from other men that aren't her uncle. You invade her space, molest her, steal her underwear and spy on her remotely. You plot to fuck her friend and when you finally do fuck your niece you have to actively try to NOT rail her out on her first time. Like, without a specific set of moves your character makes her first time miserable!

But NTR is bad. Her fucking Robert or Silver is bad. Ok. No, you're a piece of shit if you DON'T want to pass her around! How dare you not pass her around! Lmao

It can be different... Your niece who always had a crush on you takes this once in a lifetime opportunity to live alone with you. She teases you day after day in a well known girly strategy to get her romantic target's attention. You fall in her trap. Slowly you get more and more obsessed with her. Now both as a protective relative and a jealous lover you try to keep her away from sexual predators such as Silver and Robert. You have no eyes for other girls. Christine is the one and only in your heart, and you make her first time unforgettable! A true love story! NTR, threesomes are for degenerated porn stories! Lmao

 

[Dolphin3000]

Totally agree with everything u wrote. I think why most ppl * hate * Ntr themes is becoz they have emotionally invested / attracted to the gal in the game which in a sense shows good writing instead of just strip and sex. Another important reason could be its human nature to want to * win * . So in NTR routes where you obviously wont win, ppl will hate it all the way.

I like to get immersed in the game as if it was real life. That's why for me a good story, good writing and specially options are very important in a game. The more realistic the game feels, the better. Of course we have often to use suspension of disbelief in these games when the MC has that super macho pheromone or something that makes all females in the game madly in love with him.
So for me the fun in the game is pursuing a relationship with the female character I feel more attracted to. I see no fun in gratuitous sex scenes, NTR scenes or lesbian scenes (I'm not that voyeur). They are all obstacles to what I think is fun in the game: The MC relationship with my favorite female character!

 

[armion82]

Elaborate.

You didn't play the game?

 

[RonnieH]

You didn't play the game?

I did. A drug dealer and a boss that fucks his female staff members. So what? You'd think a community that rarely has issues with fucking your family members wouldn't be fazed by this. I guess that's not the case here.

 

[Mt PewPew]

I did. A drug dealer and a boss that fucks his female staff members. So what? You'd think a community that rarely has issues with fucking your family members wouldn't be fazed by this. I guess that's not the case here.

Robert may be a drug dealer on the side, but I think the three of them are illegal arms dealers.

Spoiler: Here is why I think so

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[Deleted member 992182]

Well I want Robet and Silver behind bars not because of the NTR/that actualy is not NTR/ but because of the real crimes they do.

What? C'mon, man. Cut them some slack! They're just a couple drug dealing, womanizing assholes lol

 

[Deleted member 992182]

This is actually similar to the objection that I have to it in most of the games I've seen it in. If the choices I'm making as MC paint him as a total dickhead then it feels like those NTR scenes are deserved and I have no problem with it and can even enjoy it. If I'm playing MC like he actually has some empathy for and actually cares about the girls he's after then it feels like more of a slap in the face if there are inevitable NTR scenes because it just feels like I'm going to "lose" no matter what I do.

I'm hoping to get the balance set up for the NTR scenes I do for my mod so that if you end up with an NTR scene the player feels like the choices they made justify that outcome rather than being inevitable. And I actually think Babysitter does a good job overall in that respect anyway. There's really only 1 point in the game where it felt like they crossed the line a bit and they do still give you an out even then, although Robert is still guaranteed to "get some" before you can stop him.

One thing the vanilla game doesn't seem to do which I was actually a bit surprised at was to have the friend vs horny scores affect how likely NTR was to happen. IMO a lot of the types of things that raise horny score in the game are pretty creepy and might legitimately lead to NTR. The friend path I would think less likely to lead to that.

In any case, I'm going to try setting some scenes up in my mod the way it makes sense for me and see if people like it.

Good points overall. I can see where that line exists for most players as it makes sense. To actively try to be good and then have it happen anyway can easily be seem as unfair or an insult.
My only counter to that (and a small one) would be to suggest that with a story the person experiencing it often has to let go a bit. For instance, most movies have a happy ending but not all do. Sometimes the bad guy wins, the big game isn't won and evil sees no comeuppance. Though, with interactive media like a VN it's not such a passive story being told so I get your sentiment.

I do agree that Babysitter generally does a good job at being fair. My actual playthrough was pretty down the middle but I always tend to check all routes in a VN when I'm done. I was surprised to see that Robert and Silver were just typical dudes. Shady womanizers? Sure. Yet, their stories didn't come off as horrible to me. I was actually shocked by how rough MC is on her first time (without strict selections) when I assumed that's how they'd be. The game does a solid job of being fair, IMO.

I further agree that one of the game's flaws is the FRIENDSHIP/HORNY scores and how they work. They seem to be reversed at times, with regard to what they mean in certain situations. Also, it seems that FRIENDSHIP floats across all characters and that seems odd to me. So, it's general friendliness that only you affect. I think anyway. So, any fix to that system is welcome if it helps to make it make more sense.

Finally,

Spoiler: Spoiler

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[Deleted member 992182]

I like to get immersed in the game as if it was real life. That's why for me a good story, good writing and specially options are very important in a game. The more realistic the game feels, the better. Of course we have often to use suspension of disbelief in these games when the MC has that super macho pheromone or something that makes all females in the game madly in love with him.
So for me the fun in the game is pursuing a relationship with the female character I feel more attracted to. I see no fun in gratuitous sex scenes, NTR scenes or lesbian scenes (I'm not that voyeur). They are all obstacles to what I think is fun in the game: The MC relationship with my favorite female character!

I'm a little jealous of that. I can't seem to get invested in a visual novel in thay way. I wish I could but it's more like I'm watching a movie than being an active participant even if I use my name if prompted. It's always some other guy in my head, never me. Therefor, I have no real stakes...so I want shit to get nutty.

 

[khumak]

Finally,

Spoiler: Spoiler

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Both, although personally I thought his scene with Christine was entirely appropriate given the choice MC had to make for that to happen.

Spoiler

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[Rythan25]

I can see where your going with the 3 male theory although one can argue MC aren't exactly prince charming either. He hacks, peeps , molest, steal her underwear from his niece. He may give a crap about Christine but also have no problems fucking other woman as well. Meh lol

Anyway, I got a question for you then. Same NTR plot which u dislike, but in comes a new character who is actually genuine caring for Christine and a legitimate normal guy who steals her away from MC coz he made the wrong choices. Would that be acceptable for u or nope, still hate it coz NTR?

For the top part thats only if you chose those actions for the MC, where as Silver and Robert are utter shit no matter what...

The second and more important point... NO ! I wouldnt hate it then, if more people did this with their games I would play every single damn NTR game on the planet... I like seeing the "worthy" win, whether thats the MC or not... Sadly thats not what devs do, they pick complete utter assholes covered in shit to be the opposition... They give us the Silvers, the Mateos, the Davides, the D'Brickshaws...

I'm sorry but rarely in RL does that shit happen... People claim realism, fine here is an example from my real life, back in highschool me and my best bud both liked this one chick, so we agreed to compete for her... I was winning till this hot slutty chick distracted me and I ended up making out with her at her locker while the chick I was after was watching... (its like a choice in te VN, I picked the wrong one and it cost me), therefore she chose my friend over me... Would I consider that NTR ? No, I lost to a better person, he wasnt a horndog that gets sidetracked by "easier pussy", therefore he got her, and they got married eventually... The thing is that girl went with a worthy guy that liked/loved her... she didnt got with Jamal Bigblackcock or someone 20 years older that promised to make her a slut in an effort to teach me a life lesson about how bad boys are better...

 

[TheKryptonian]

Both, although personally I thought his scene with Christine was entirely appropriate given the choice MC had to make for that to happen.

Spoiler

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That scene your referring to I wish the MC would have fetched his baseball bat and knocked out all of D-Bags teeth.

 

[UncleVT]

@Bahamut Zero This thread is about the game and isn't the place to rant NTR. You can do that in:

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