DSO13

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Jul 4, 2023
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Small suggestion for a future update: Could Cream's hunger status be added to the UI/HUD? Something relatively unobtrusive like the color of the circle behind her icon (green when she's fine, yellow when she's close to being hungry, red when the value is 0 or negative and will start impacting scenes) or a small icon/meter that runs down as she gets hungry?

It's a little annoying having to check the journal to see if she's hungry before you do something or starting a scene only to have it interrupted by her being hungry and aborting what's happening. Knowing if she's hungry at a glance would make things smoother.
 
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Novilon

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Feb 8, 2021
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Small suggestion for a future update: Could Cream's hunger status be added to the UI/HUD? Something relatively unobtrusive like the color of the circle behind her icon (green when she's fine, yellow when she's close to being hungry, red when the value is 0 or negative and will start impacting scenes) or a small icon/meter that runs down as she gets hungry?
Hm... the icon change isn't a bad idea, and probably not that difficult to implement... Even just a single color change indicating she's going to be getting hungry soon would be better than nothing, I'd think.

There should probably be more places where the 'hunger' stat actually affects the game in some fashion, too. Such as having her be more proactive in asking for food or snacks, or suggesting "can we have breakfast/lunch/dinner first?", if you try to initiate an activity while her hunger stat is low.
 

Chenzhou

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Aug 28, 2018
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There should probably be more places where the 'hunger' stat actually affects the game in some fashion, too. Such as having her be more proactive in asking for food or snacks, or suggesting "can we have breakfast/lunch/dinner first?", if you try to initiate an activity while her hunger stat is low.
Still, it's gotta be written better / implimented than letting Cream blow you 3 times in the kitchen instead of feeding her before she gets sick of seeing Sanic's schlong for a 4th time instead of being fed. Not a bad idea though. :devilish:
 
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Novilon

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Feb 8, 2021
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Still, it's gotta be written better / implimented than letting Cream blow you 3 times in the kitchen instead of feeding her before she gets sick of seeing Sanic's schlong for a 4th time instead of being fed. Not a bad idea though. :devilish:
Yeah, I think maybe one reason it seems annoying to have a scene get interrupted or derailed when she's hungry is because there's really only one or two places where "hunger" even affects it at all, so between that and the lack of any obvious (or even subtle) indicator that she's getting hungry, it can feel kind of random when it does happen.

The more I think about it, the more I kind of like the idea of the visual indicator. I'll experiment with that and see if it can be done without any overly-complicated code hacks. (It shouldn't be difficult, but Renpy does sometimes make seemingly-simple things more complicated than they really ought to be...)
 

DSO13

Newbie
Jul 4, 2023
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Random question as I'm poking around in this version of the game:

How many ways are there to get Cream's panties off permanently (ie trip the flag that allows you to ask her to take her panties off on command)? Presuming you have sufficient stats and her dress off, of course.

I've found:
1) The "traditional" method of summoning her in Vanilla's room, dress off, then asking her to sleep with you, which leads to a scene where Sonic is woken up in the middle of the night as Cream tries to initiate sex with him.

2) The primary old flash version's recommended guide/walkthrough method, which is play the racing game with her (dress off), win, make her strip, then try to have sex with her.

3) Playing the 'mommy and daddy game" in her room with her dress off. On the second instance of the game she hugs Sonic and discovers his boner, which can lead to suggesting that he wants to do the "special hug" with her for real. This also ends the current day.

4) Giving her the special ice cream and choosing to stick it in.

5) Convincing Cream to skinny dip in the pool after you swipe her bikini top. It's a bit quirky/more work because, near as I can tell, it requires you to get one of the foreplay achievements (fondled cream or went down on cream) while still not having unlocked actual sex (the easiest paths for that appear to be either playing the mommy and daddy game (no dress version, at least the second time you've done it), letting her discover how "happy" you are, then offering to make her feel as good, or playing HBG with her and in the truth or dare segment you dare her to let you touch her all over. If you do it right, then when you suggest you can swim without bathing suits instead of her just saying "I don't think so" or whatever, she hesitates, strips off her panties, and Sonic says she looks cute in her birthday suit. Cream takes the compliment and jumps in the pool, it flashes up the Congratulations box to say that you can get her panties off now and then it begins the usual skinny dipping scene. Though I've also encountered two different versions of how this play out (I think). One where if you try to help her get rid of your pool boner she says she's not ready for the 'special hug' but lets you play with her on the deck of the pool and the other where she stops you from going any farther and runs off. Or the latter might be me misremembering things because I can't seem to make it happen on command.

It does seem like the achievement flags have to be focused on making Cream feel good though. If you've gotten one for being blown by her or getting a handjob or whatever, she'll refuse to take her panties off.

I feel like there's probably more that I can't remember or haven't found (especially the latter in this updated/fleshed out version of the game) but that's all I have for now.

Notably if your stats are high enough you can get her to shower with you (either by inviting her in if she peeps on Sonic or by sticking around and agreeing to help her when suggesting she should shower) and she has no problem taking her panties off for that, but it doesn't last beyond that scene. Somehow she's OK with getting naked and blowing Sonic in the shower, but then gets all cringe-faced and says 'I'm not ready for that' if you ask her to take her panties off in the very next scene in Vanilla's room. lol) Also the shower interactions don't trip the "oral from Cream" achievement either.

And a couple of other thoughts:

Surprisingly enough (by which I mean, utterly unsurprisingly and completely predictably), you're not the first person to make that observation.

The answer was, is, and always will be the same: Unless some generous patron of the arts steps forward with multiple thousands of dollars to pay an artist to draw a couple hundred images to exact specifications -- or unless an artist with a lot of spare time on their hands is crazy enough to do all that work for free -- the art situation will not change.
I'm probably in the minority, but I'm weirdly attached to the background images Avalon used for everything. Like if it came to some artist drawing backgrounds for Vanilla's house I would probably miss these weirdly tacky, very sort of late 80s/early 90s home images that represent the house. I do like some of the additions and changes (the added backgrounds for stores in the mall, the indoor movie theater ticket counter, the pool, shower, and back yard stuff at Vanilla's) but it's oddly nostalgic to keep those other pics in place. To the point that rather than abandoning them for higher res images I'd almost take upscaling them and then putting everything through some stylizing photoshop filters to create consistency between old and new and hide imperfections.

but I think I'm weird that way. lol


Also since in searching to see if anyone had answered a question I had, I came across a discussion about the eventual removal of the harder/edgier content and the moral alignment system. that lead to 2 thoughts:

1) I agree that it would be nice to tone down some of the rapey and dark stuff. Like the Knuckles threesome would be better if Cream were a willing participant rather than the dark implication that Sonic fetches Cream from her room, takes her into the bedroom with already-naked Knuckles, and the two guys violate her every which way while she screams. Either make it so that Cream stumbles across Sonic & Knuckles jerking it to porn in the living room and strips down to get them off herself (with a line like "You could've called me to help you") or Sonic leaves the room, gets Cream, and comes back to the living room with her gleefully bouncing on his cock before Sonic gets her to ask Knuckles to fill her up too (possibly with the option of choosing Sonic's starting hole to create variants of the scene?).

Not that it necessarily turns my crank that much, but would the tone-down mean the removal or reinstatement of gay content? It was excluded from the Knuckles scenes because Avalon had a hissy fit over people whining about it, but strangely he had no problem with Sonic reaming Tails' throat and, er, tails out because he has a hate-boner for the fox or whatever. That would also present alternate Cream 3some options, having Sonic take Knuckles to the bedroom for a scene where he notices Cream peeping on them and giving the choice to just keep quiet (guys only scene) and let her watch or invite her in to join (added bedroom 3some).

2) If the moral alignment system was re-worked, would an option be to turn it into something like a "lewdness" rating? Instead of making Sonic more of an asshole in specific circumstances, it goes up as he or Cream do more perverted/depraved/fetishy things, and in turn unlock options for even more extreme content. It also makes Cream more aggressive and outwardly sexual. So you could keep it low and things would pretty much be as they are in a positive alignment normal game, with Cream and Sonic just fucking all around the house. But maybe pounding Cream upside down from teh handstand outside gets some lewd points, or having her suck Sonic off for food. A few points into the lewd stats and she's willing to try anal. A few more and she's in on threesomes with other characters. A few more and she's willing to get DP'd by two people or Sonic and some toys besides the carrot. A few more and she will initiate some sex scenes more aggressively. A few more and you're into the really fetishy stuff like the watersports scenes or some light bondage, or public sex and Cream becomes a bit of a nympho. And maybe since you might not want super hardcore sex freak Cream all the time, there would possibly have to be an option to tell her to tone it down a bit so you can reset the lewdness to a lower score (or ask her if she wants to get wild to put it back to its previous high)

that's probably too difficult to do though because it would require scene variants for a ton of stuff at varying levels of lewdness. But it's one of the things I've idly thought about.

I should probably tone this sort of rambling down. I feel bad making all these "do more work!" suggestions while I sit here and offer nothing.
 

Kruggov

Member
Jun 8, 2020
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How many ways are there to get Cream's panties off permanently (ie trip the flag that allows you to ask her to take her panties off on command)? Presuming you have sufficient stats and her dress off, of course.
There's also one in backyard where you grab her by hips during a handstand, lick her then stop, if you have sufficient RWC and some other action (blowjob IIRC, though i might be wrong), you proceed to get her panties off and fuck her in the dining room on the table. I recall this method because it somehow did not require dress off at some point, you could have panties off but not dress off.
 

DSO13

Newbie
Jul 4, 2023
24
24
There's also one in backyard where you grab her by hips during a handstand, lick her then stop, if you have sufficient RWC and some other action (blowjob IIRC, though i might be wrong), you proceed to get her panties off and fuck her in the dining room on the table. I recall this method because it somehow did not require dress off at some point, you could have panties off but not dress off.
Didn't know this one. I know if you try to fuck her outside without enough RWC in the flash version she would freak out and you'd get the cops called on you. I'll have to see what happens if you stop.

This also made me think of something: Though it's kind of the "traditional" stat name, RWC is kind of clumsy. Not sure why Avalon didn't just call it "affection" or something like that.
 

DoorFive

Member
Dec 3, 2019
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396
I love how people are discovering things. It's my belief that humans are drawn to mysteries, and will so attempt to solve them.
I think it's also partly why people are for some reason bound to prove others wrong.
With so many little stuff you can find in a game such as this, warms my degenerate heart.
 

FoxyTails

Member
Feb 9, 2020
141
163
Also since in searching to see if anyone had answered a question I had, I came across a discussion about the eventual removal of the harder/edgier content and the moral alignment system. that lead to 2 thoughts:

1) I agree that it would be nice to tone down some of the rapey and dark stuff. Like the Knuckles threesome would be better if Cream were a willing participant rather than the dark implication that Sonic fetches Cream from her room
Actually Novilon already has ideas for the Knuckles re-write & has also mentioned he's looking into the best way(s) to re-write the Tails events after getting quite a few suggestions on how to go about this.


Knuckles, in Novilon own words, is a 1-off event that doesn't affect the gameplay, however Tails MAY have more involvement in Novilon plans for the game and requires a little bit more work, & IIRC (have to check) but there's also a bit of 'Rouge Rape' while in the shop which if you choose to do that will cause the shop to be closed

EDIT: Checked - yep its there but you need to have Sonic Moral < -10 & 'Cream Naked' to get the options of 'I trust you' or 'You know too much'
 

Novilon

Member
Feb 8, 2021
331
879
Knuckles, in Novilon own words, is a 1-off event that doesn't affect the gameplay, however Tails MAY have more involvement in Novilon plans for the game and requires a little bit more work, & IIRC (have to check) but there's also a bit of 'Rouge Rape' while in the shop which if you choose to do that will cause the shop to be closed

EDIT: Checked - yep its there but you need to have Sonic Moral < -10 & 'Cream Naked' to get the options of 'I trust you' or 'You know too much'
Yeah, the scenes in the porn shop need re-doing as well. They're kind of tied up in the "Mystery Ending" plot, though, so a full rework of them might not come until a couple more versions down the road.

Notably if your stats are high enough you can get her to shower with you (either by inviting her in if she peeps on Sonic or by sticking around and agreeing to help her when suggesting she should shower) and she has no problem taking her panties off for that, but it doesn't last beyond that scene. Somehow she's OK with getting naked and blowing Sonic in the shower, but then gets all cringe-faced and says 'I'm not ready for that' if you ask her to take her panties off in the very next scene in Vanilla's room. lol) Also the shower interactions don't trip the "oral from Cream" achievement either.
Some of the achievement flags, and the conditions in which they do or don't get tripped, are definitely inconsistent. Much like the time-of-day system and the "hunger" system, it's a Rube Goldberg contraption at best. :p

would the tone-down mean the removal or reinstatement of gay content?
No. Or yes! Definitely one of those. :ROFLMAO:
 

Saru77

New Member
Apr 5, 2023
5
1
Didn't know this one. I know if you try to fuck her outside without enough RWC in the flash version she would freak out and you'd get the cops called on you. I'll have to see what happens if you stop.

This also made me think of something: Though it's kind of the "traditional" stat name, RWC is kind of clumsy. Not sure why Avalon didn't just call it "affection" or something like that.
There's another one in the living room where, with the right requirements, doing the path (Videogames > tickle attack > Grope > take off dress) triggers a scene where you take off her panties and eat her out

Weirdly enough, Even though there are ways to get Cream's panties off without taking her virginity, the game sometimes treats it as one and the same and almost all the following sex options end up playing out like you two have already done it. It's oddly inconsistent
 
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DSO13

Newbie
Jul 4, 2023
24
24
Some of the achievement flags, and the conditions in which they do or don't get tripped, are definitely inconsistent. Much like the time-of-day system and the "hunger" system, it's a Rube Goldberg contraption at best. :p
Yeah, given how slapdash elements of the original game seemed, it definitely gives off a vibe of being cobbled together pretty haphazardly and if you look at it the wrong way it will break.



No. Or yes! Definitely one of those. :ROFLMAO:
lol. I'm not really all that invested one way or another, though I would err on the side of having something like that included just because I think that with content that is optional it should go broad so that everyone has something that turns their crank. I'm sure there are lots of players who don't like anal or public sex, or the rapey-er bits, or bukkake, or watersports, or all sorts of non-vanilla (heh) content. But that's fine because they can avoid the scenes they don't like and concentrate on the ones they do. I kind of get Avalon's frustration with people that harassed him to tone down Knuckles because they didn't want gay content in their bunny porn, but on the other hand nobody forced them to click the gay scene choices just like nobody forced Avalon to make a passive-aggressive 4th wall break whinging about toning such content down. That said I played several different iterations of the BSC flash and I don't remember there ever being any significant action between Sonic and Knuckles that would've needed "toning down" like he suggested. Unless it was people getting their knickers in a twist about Sonic raping Tails but Avalon refusing to take that out because he has the world's biggest Tails hate-boner or whatever.

There's another one in the living room where, with the right requirements, doing the path (Videogames > tickle attack > Grope > take off dress) triggers a scene where you take off her panties and eat her out
Didn't know that one either. Will have to try.

Weirdly enough, Even though there are ways to get Cream's panties off without taking her virginity, the game sometimes treats it as one and the same and almost all the following sex options end up playing out like you two have already done it. It's oddly inconsistent
I imagine the time needed to make whole extra set of flags for "virginity check" that's separate from "can take panties off" and then script slightly different iterations of all those scenes where it might matter would just be too time intensive. Instead it feels like the most pragmatic thing to do was what the game has always done: assume that the most players are going to go for the couple of most direct ways to get into Cream's panties, script those scenes to refer to her virginity, and just shrug about the minority of players who are going to look for the most roundabout way to get through all the scenes for kicks.
 
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Saru77

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Apr 5, 2023
5
1
I imagine the time needed to make whole extra set of flags for "virginity check" that's separate from "can take panties off" and then script slightly different iterations of all those scenes where it might matter would just be too time intensive. Instead it feels like the most pragmatic thing to do was what the game has always done: assume that the most players are going to go for the couple of most direct ways to get into Cream's panties, script those scenes to refer to her virginity, and just shrug about the minority of players who are going to look for the most roundabout way to get through all the scenes for kicks.
Funnily enough, there actually is at least 1 variation for that specific instance. If you've already had at least Vaginal sex with cream, which is par for the course when taking off her panties, then that same route of Videogames > tickle attack > Grope > take off dress ends in a sex scene either in the living room or Cream's room depending on your choice. But if you've managed to get her naked without taking her virginity, then that route instead turns into a 69 scene with fingering/spank play.
 

Novilon

Member
Feb 8, 2021
331
879
Yeah, given how slapdash elements of the original game seemed, it definitely gives off a vibe of being cobbled together pretty haphazardly and if you look at it the wrong way it will break.
Having at least three subsequent dev's worth of spaghetti code added to it definitely doesn't help. o_O

I imagine the time needed to make whole extra set of flags for "virginity check" that's separate from "can take panties off" and then script slightly different iterations of all those scenes where it might matter would just be too time intensive.
It's not a bad idea on paper, though.

Adding extra flags was a problem for quite a while due to the way Ren'Py saves and loads game data; if you tried to load a save from an older version of the program, it would crash the game as soon as any part of your code tried to check the status of a "new" flag or stat which didn't exist in the older version that created the save file. Thanks to Fivesteaks' recent code contribution, though, that shouldn't happen anymore (his code makes sure all variables get reinitialized after a saved-game load, so there can't be any "missing" ones in the game's stat tables), so it does at least free me up to consider the idea...:giggle:
 
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