"Bad" Games

[Pretentious Goblin]

labrat 2 is good? I remember enjoying the first one well enough, but I saw some reviews of 2 and for some reason I walked away from it. I cant remember why though. Made it sound worse than the first one.

Yeah, the dev got too ambitious with it, made a mechanically-deep sandbox. But it ran pretty bad, the models didn't appeal to most and the gameplay wasn't a satisfying loop, so it was a bunch of grind. It seems fans are updating it though.

 

[ScrewMe]

"Why is this the most popular? It has a lot of flaws."

Isn't it obvious, when it comes to BaDIK, for example?
For the time it came out, the game was one of a few with more or less coherent story where action in itself was secondary.
No "fuck momma-sistah" trope(same applies to Philly's game, btw), no "Succubus #666 connects with MC and tells him to either fuck everyone in town or die".
If you remove NSFW part from both BaDIK and COBD, you'd still end up getting a full on story: Tremolo will still hang out with his buddies and find out that frat life isn't as fun as it seems on surface. Ghost will still try to save Gloria even if you won't fuck anyone.
Second of all, when it comes to BaDIK - the further it went, the more gameplay stuff was added to it. There are some RPG elements here, some strategy games there and some basic minigames which can take 30 mins of your time in one sitting.
As far as visuals go, both these games were top notch around the time they came out.
Are there better looking games these days? Of course. But most of them lack that storytelling that these two have.

Summertime Saga, for example, had outstanding visual storytelling. Yup, cliches, but when you looked at someones locker, you got to see what values that character holds, what's important for him etc etc.
Shame that Cookie fumbled the bag later on and has decided to milk the shit out of it.

Now, what kind of flaws do you see with these games? What, you want them to be openworld shooters with worldsim? With the budget that most of us have, nobody will be able to do that.
You want authors to create better and longer exposition - like, LI should kiss an MC around EP10? Then good luck to them with not getting accused of milking and getting paid.

 

[Ennoch]

With the budget that most of us have, nobody will be able to do that.

And when someone tries people scoff it off as being clunky

 

[anne O'nymous]

Isn't it obvious, when it comes to BaDIK, for example?

Of course it's obvious, it's because he made, and finished, Acting Lessons before this...
Players are deeply conservative, when then find a dev they like and who finish a game, they have the tendency to stick to him whatever he'll do after this. And it need a really deep (and long) fuck up for them to change, as ICSTOR demonstrated.

Are there better looking games these days? Of course. But most of them lack that storytelling that these two have.

And that The DeLuca Family, Bad Memories, Heavy Five, The Intoxicating Flavor, Karlsoon's Gambit, Halfway House, Jason, Coming of Age, Pale Carnations, Shattered, Sophie, the girl from the zone, Stranded in Space, Triple Ex, also have, among many others, including Philly's ones or the infamous games made by Daniels K and their never resolved mysteries. Some of them being anterior to BaDIK.

The game please you, and it's good, but sorry it don't have, and never had, something special, not even in terms of story. The only difference with the games I named is that it's DrPinkCake's second game. Players were hyped right from the starts, what attracted curious who never played Acting Lessons. And, exactly like it happened with WVM before BrainDrop lost half his pseudonym, the mass attract the mass.

What, you want them to be openworld shooters with worldsim? With the budget that most of us have, nobody will be able to do that.

*cough*Abandoned, a tales of forgotten lives*cough* Of course, the game is relatively bad, with tons of clipping and bones issues, as well as fucking demanding in resources (what stupid idea to use Daz Assets as it) and Kerny never achieved to do what he wanted for the combat system, what made him drop it. But it was the first, and he have been followed by others since he was finished 7 years ago. Not necessarily shooters, but real time 3D open world.
What doesn't mean that any dev can do this, but it's more a question of knowledge and (cumulated) available time, than a question of money.

 

[ScrewMe]

Of course it's obvious, it's because he made, and finished, Acting Lessons before this...
Players are deeply conservative, when then find a dev they like and who finish a game, they have the tendency to stick to him whatever he'll do after this. And it need a really deep (and long) fuck up for them to change, as ICSTOR demonstrated.

Obviously, an already established fanbase helps(infamous GumDrop case, for example), but come on...In terms of popularity, AL was nowhere near BaDIK. It is factor, but is it the major one? Don't think so.

Like, around 2017 DoD was VN with the biggest following. However, Lewdlab's second game ended up being amongst the popular ones, but nowhere near Philly's or PinkCake's level.

The game please you, and it's good, but sorry it don't have, and never had, something special, not even in terms of story. The only difference with the games I named is that it's DrPinkCake's second game.

I was telling about what makes these two stand out among the others. I'm not saying that it has perfect story or something, but it is way more entertaining than, for example, the ones of Daniels K, which keep following the same formula over and over again.
For example, I played AL only after BaDIK. So hype didn't get to me in the first place. What worked? The previews. Then I've seen what's written in game's description - started playing it and got on with it. DPC's hook worked. The setup in other games that you've mentioned - didn't.

The game please you, and it's good, but sorry it don't have, and never had, something special, not even in terms of story.

What makes it stand out, after all? The whole combo of factors, nah? The theme, the gameplay, the plot, the visuals and, ofc, Covid.
Maybe I didn't play enough NSFW games by that time, but both BaDIK and COBD stood out in 2018-2021.

Were these games and their plots something new when we were talking of games in general? Hell no. Were they a breath of fresh air when it came down to NSFW games? I'd say yes.

What doesn't mean that any dev can do this, but it's more a question of knowledge and (cumulated) available time, than a question of money.

And that's the point. If you're over 20 and work on something like this as a hobby, it would take ages to produce something better than a buggy mess, cuz you have to feed yourself)
If you have money to hire people and have a team of people working on that/better hardware - it's a different story(another can of worms with workflow and management, obviously)


Overall, agree to disagree)

 

[tanstaafl]

Obviously, an already established fanbase helps(infamous GumDrop case, for example), but come on...In terms of popularity, AL was nowhere near BaDIK. It is factor, but is it the major one? Don't think so.

In terms of downloads you are correct. In terms of being EVERYWHERE you are incorrect. I'm not sure how active you were on forums and discord back when AL was popular, but it was literally everywhere. Discussions I mean. Anger. Ranting. "I'll never play a game that blah blah blah." The only time I've ever seen a game get anywhere near as much discussion time, even from people who never played it, was when Luna's story went live.

It's a sign of good writing, even if you don't necessarily like the story. Breaking Bad is a good non-porn example of what happens when stellar writing hits an otherwise stale stable of comparison. For clarity, I'm not comparing Acting Lessons writing to Breaking Bad writing, I'm saying that Acting Lessons was as comparably better than its competitors as Breaking Bad was comparably better than its competitors.

 

[tanstaafl]

Separate post to address the Daz hate. I get it. When Daz first started hitting the scene it was like when the N64 finally hit the scene. It was just better. But it's a lot of years later now and there's been a lot of improvement in almost every area of graphics and gaming. I think the problem a lot of people have with the argument is because while Daz has also improved by leaps and bounds over the years, a great many of the game devs who utilize it have not.

I guess what I'm saying is that Daz isn't the problem. The problem is that a great many developers who use Daz need to keep up with the technology. And yes, I do know that hardware requirements to do so are cost prohibitive.

Edit: One of the problems, perhaps, is the standard reused assets that are passed around in Daz VN circles.

 

[LunariaHoney]

I'm sorry guys I didn't think this was such a controversial topic
I was kind of just sharing my opinion to see if anyone else agreed with me, I didn't know this was like a common thing to fight about here. I'm still new to looking into the actual forums and this is my first post so soz...

 

[Geigi]

I'm sorry guys I didn't think this was such a controversial topic
I was kind of just sharing my opinion to see if anyone else agreed with me, I didn't know this was like a common thing to fight about here. I'm still new to looking into the actual forums and this is my first post so soz...

Welcome to the club, don't worry. Every thread goes off topic and opinions will clash, it's normal.

 

[tanstaafl]

Welcome to the club, don't worry. Every thread goes off topic and opinions will clash, it's normal.

We get bored.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

While I prefer stylized 3D (Like KK, or a game like Monolith Bay) I've never found Daz horrible. Visuals are kinda secondary for me though.

 

[mr11stein]

It would be a fairly simple problem to solve by creating a Daz3D Tag and making it possible to save filter options. But I feel like productive criticism is frowned upon on this site.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

It would be a fairly simple problem to solve by creating a Daz3D Tag and making it possible to save filter options. But I feel like productive criticism is frowned upon on this site.

It's part of the coming soon (TM) tag update.

 

[suprisedcrankyface]

It would be a fairly simple problem to solve by creating a Daz3D Tag and making it possible to save filter options. But I feel like productive criticism is frowned upon on this site.

Wouldn't that be like adding a 'hand drawn' tag though.. i mean tools are tools, over labeling can be a bad thing. I don't really play that many 3d pre-rendered games for example, but when thousands of people like one its usually for a reason beyond rendering.

Take Honey select, you can get THE GAME yourself, but how many people DL art made with it instead. I like watching car racing, but the idea of actually racing a car scares the sht outta me.

 

[nulnil]

Why does it have to be unique? Why can't it just do what others have done, just better or in a way more people enjoy?
YOU are the one adding the "it must be unique", you are adding your own criteria and then judging it on that criteria and then passing the results off as something standard. Hence the later replies that you think you represent the majority.

I'm trying to be somewhat respectful here, but honestly you're being an asshole here. If you would actually bother to read like a mature adult instead of getting pissed - like you usually do - you'd see that I said I don't undestand why this game in specific is the TOP game. Numero uno. NOT me asking why anyone ever bothers to play it.

You'd ALSO realize that I never said it "must be unique". I said "usually the best of something at least stands out in some way". BaD being popular is strange, not bad or wrong or evil or whatever you think I think it is. Maybe you jumped to this conclusion when I said "the quality is sloppy at times"? There is literally a scene in the game where MC breaks the fourth wall to comment on how the model of a burger looks bad.

Really? Your whole argument is based on "I don't like it so why do others" and the answer is back on page 1

Your final challenge... don't make things up!!!

He is famous for having the opinion that VNs are inherently shitty because amateur writers cannot write well. He needs games that tie sexual content directly to gameplay. Or something along those lines. That's his criteria of what good porn games should be, and it's a very strongly held belief. Which is why he will find typical VNs, which are actually much more popular as a genre than anything gameplay related, to be lackluster and stupid.

So yeah. Lol. Just some context for this, but the answer is still the same. People like different shit.

That thread was what, three-four years ago? You don't believe people can change or something? Do you think all criminals - no matter the size of their crime - deserve the death penalty, because they will never, ever change? Maybe even, you think the government ought to arrest people who haven't committed any crimes, but might?

You see how talking for others is kind of rude? Maybe you just weren't taught manners, or something. Never too late to learn them though.

To be clear, I still don't like visual novels. I believe for a porn game to succeed as porn, it should have sexual content happen pretty frequently; especially if it's pretty gameplay intensive.

 

[nulnil]

Now, what kind of flaws do you see with these games?

Again, I've only played BaD, so it's the only one I can say for sure has flaws.

First, the DiK - Chik meter simplifies most actions as "bad thing, good thing". Like, if you look at someone's ass, the DiK meter goes up. Apparently, that's as bad as getting into a brawl with someone. And if you don't stare at an ass, that redeems you for beating someone up. Or, if you stare at too many asses, you're evil! It kind of encourages you to go all-in on one side because you know how and when the game judges you.

Generally, it's better to let the player's actions define them rather than have an arbitrary meter that says how good or evil they are.

Other issue, the minigames are atrocious. If I'm reading a visual novel, I'd like to read a story. There's pretty much a minigame every four minutes at best. And yes, you can skip them, but you're inclined to play them because you might get content if you win, or lose out on content if you lose.

The free-roam sections are also just padding with no substance. In theory they could work if they added a good amount to the story, but they mostly serve as a way to cram more minigames into the game. The developer even just gives up on hiding magazines in those sections in favor of finding invisible white dots.

And then the actual gameplay of the minigames is bad to control because the game is written in an engine for visual novels.

For the time it came out, the game was one of a few with more or less coherent story where action in itself was secondary.

I will say that makes a lot of sense if BaD was one of the first.

 

[desmosome]

To be clear, I still don't like visual novels. I believe for a porn game to succeed as porn, it should have sexual content happen pretty frequently; especially if it's pretty gameplay intensive.

You've made a few such threads over the years about the nature of porn games and sexual content delivery. In all of them, you state your distaste for VNs, because you don't think any of these amateur devs can write at the level of actual professionals writing books or scripts. That's not an entirely unfounded assessment, mind you. It's an obvious fact. But most people just want something that anchors the sexual content. You (at least the old you) need this to be anchored to gameplay. Most people that enjoy VN think a passable story enhances the sexual content, and they don't need breaking bad levels of writing. Just something not terrible.

Anyways, if you changed your mind after holding such a strongly and adamantly argued viewpoint, my bad. But clearly, your inability to accept that other people enjoy things using different criteria from you remains.

 

[nulnil]

But clearly, your inability to accept that other people enjoy things using different criteria from you remains.

I don't know how many times I gotta say it, but where do I say I don't "accept that other people enjoy things using different criteria from you"?

I'll assume you think my suprise is rejection, in which case; to you, is surpise rejection? Because it doesn't show up in merriam-webster thesaurus when I look up "rejection".

 

[desmosome]

I don't know how many times I gotta say it, but where do I say I don't "accept that other people enjoy things using different criteria from you"?

Oh, so I guess you would agree that BADIK is extremely popular because it does something really good that people look for in an adult game. Like having nice renders, good animation, generally high production values, having a broadly appealing, inoffensive story that still has some drama, and this dev's main strength, having some good LIs that appeals to the average romance enjoying player.

You wouldn't be like, "Ackchually, the story is dumb, LIs are unlikable, and renders might be good back then, but it's nothing special these days, and the minigames SUCK!" Because you know that it's popular, and that means it's doing something that appeals to a huge number of people, and even if you personally don't think so, it stands to reason that your criteria is the one that diverges from the majority opinion.

 

[Goeffel]

you'd see that I said I don't undestand why this game in specific is the TOP game. Numero uno.

and that's your fault in thinking/ assuming, imo.

Just look at other mass-media or such, most popular does not necessarily mean best (or even just good) quality. It may correlate, or it may not.
"Friends" or "How I met Your Mother" - were incredibly popular (annoyingly so), but good quality? give me a break.
I don't know, maybe not even subscribers of the "Sun" would call it a quality paper, but it is very popular (or at least it used to be, am somewhat out of the loop)

and so on.

Why should it be any different with NSFW games?

disclaimer - I have NO idea about BADIK, quality-wise or anything.