- Thread starter BLC Games
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Rance is a humor focused rape and not a psychological damaging rape. If you recall there's a sex scene involving the loli princess in Sengoku Rance were he finds she's been raped and it's a very dark scene compared to the rest of the Rance rape scenes. It's how it's portraited that changes everything. On some peoples eyes it doesn't change anything because rape is rape but it's how your were brought up and your personal beliefs.
- Aug 22, 2016
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This is funny and sad.
I know a guy nicknamed Jemiscor who distinguishes between soft rape and hard rape.
- May 12, 2017
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not much yet, but you play as chuck an your girl gets fucked around
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- Aug 7, 2016
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I personally don't like it, and it prevented me from playing many games. I played Rance's games though.
- Aug 9, 2016
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I think there's a spectrum these days. (I tried watching that video but the auto-translated subtitles were... lacking. So if my thoughts conflict or overlap, that's why.)
"Hard rape" like you find satirized in Rance games is relatively rare (aside from something like a game called "Orc Attack" or something) and at least notable as a tag when it appears, but a lot of hard rape's cousins are more ubiquitous and less objectionable by the larger audience/community.
First, in "dominance" centered games (like slave trainers/PT/Wife or Witch Trainer) there's an assumption that at some point, the object of desire in question is going to be bent to the MC's will (or vice versa in those TFG games) and a lot of things that would scream "rape" in a standard modern setting, like the woman's status as indentured servant or slave or assignee or general imprisonment, are somehow seen as immaterial to consent. It doesn't matter than Princess Jasmine can't leave because when you eventually have sex with her, you've either maneuvered her into circumstances where she cannot refuse by her own thinking (like when you're whoring her out) or she submits to you when you call her. Keeping her like a slave has already destroyed all that character's agency and the game is about, from that point forward, either breaking what remains or manipulating her into giving it to you by choice. It's not about rape so much as control and, candidly, developers/fetishists know that pure physical control/dominance/rape is boring and the whole point of those games is to eventually dominate the inner mind/life/soul of the sexual object.
Second, in "conquest" centered games, playable characters often violate consent in ways that happen to give the resulting sex the veneer of consent. Mind control games. Incest games where you need to either drug your mom/sister/cousin or get them drunk as often as you need to raise their mood or affection stats or find their toothbrush for them. Those games are about access and accomplishment and influence (as well as dominance) and so while you'll often figure out how to trick a potential sexual partner into sex, at some point after, they usually come around to willingly servicing you sexually. It's not a "rape" game, but yeah... that's all rape. At least in the US. But that they don't usually stay rape past the first encounter speaks more to the game's goals. Once you've "caught" them, the whole point is that they're "yours."
Third, "corruption" based games, which often have female PCs. Again, these women are often put into situations that violate consent and therefore "count" as rape, but they are very rarely just locked in a room and used. There's usually some "trick" or "drug" or "scenario" at play that coaxes out the behavior that might qualify, but, again, the whole point is that the playable character eventually comes around and starts participating in those scenarios willingly (plus you have a Player controlling that Female PC who wants content and therefore will put the PC into sexual scenarios as often as they are able... the "Player Character" and the "Player" eventually become more and more the same and therefore consent is less and less an issue.)
There aren't that many "rape" games... in that they are preoccupied with sex without any consent at all, but lots of games use rape to explore their real interests while either not exploring it or pretending that it is not rape because many of the elements have been delegated to the game's conceit rather than the player's actions.
My own application of this also stems from the underlying goals of the project. I don't think that you can really have good cheating/ntr when consent is violated on the part of the object of desire. If someone rapes your girlfriend, that's a terrible thing that happened. If someone drugs and blackmails your girlfriend behind your back until she's mentally challenged or accepted her life as a prostitute... that's another terrible thing that happened. If your girlfriend, on her own, decides someone else is better than you in every way and either breaks up with or cheats on you... that fucks you up. Nothing happened to her and she's still the same person you wanted. The bad thing that happened was you, at least in her eyes. Any of the above tropes would only seek to explain or soften that blow.
... that's my take anyways.
- Aug 9, 2016
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Are you responding to me? I never said any of the tropes I listed (or any violation of consent at all for that matter) were anything but rape... the opposite in fact. Those things are absolutely rape.
I was talking about how rape/consent is used in a lot of these games being produced currently and how the community at large responds to those usages. I interpreted the discussion I responded to (again, did not see the video) to be about why rape was in so many games but was rarely the central fetish and, beyond that, why it seemed so profane and offensive when it was highlighted or the central fetish despite that prevalent usage.
To sum up my conclusion more clearly - most games that have rape aren't about "rape" but instead some other psychological phenomenon that is either a smaller part of or incidental to those acts. This is rape, but X designer isn't (in their mind) writing a game about a unrepentant rapist because they're actually making a project about control or humiliation or objectification or (even though it's the opposite) seduction.
- Aug 9, 2016
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Update/Feedback Request on Patreon.
... it feels weird to post it here myself even if the only reason I marked it "Patreon Only" was due to nudity on the part of the render. It's not like I think starving people of content is going to make them give me their boner dollars. Still, it feels silly to be like "Join this club! Now that I have your dollar I'm giving everyone club shit!"
What do? This is the kind of thing that made me not want a patreon/blog/identity. I naturally made a cuck game so everyone would like me.
... it feels weird to post it here myself even if the only reason I marked it "Patreon Only" was due to nudity on the part of the render. It's not like I think starving people of content is going to make them give me their boner dollars. Still, it feels silly to be like "Join this club! Now that I have your dollar I'm giving everyone club shit!"
What do? This is the kind of thing that made me not want a patreon/blog/identity. I naturally made a cuck game so everyone would like me.
- Aug 22, 2016
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If both paths were fun and not just one of those games where if you don't choose the cheating/NTR option you get a really boring path, this could be a great game.
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- Aug 9, 2016
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If I do my job right, there won't be a path with no content but it doesn't quite break into cheating/ntr v. fidelity. The third imaginary stat is the main girl's attraction to the other guy, which the player doesn't have any control over... the routes/branches/options are more about what she thinks about you and how your actions effect her attraction and respect towards you and how those feelings effect her actions in dealing with that other attraction.
It's a bit of a "you can only really control your own actions and thoughts, not what others think about you or others" take on jealousy/cheating/control. I'm interested to see the reception once we're all in the middle of everything.
Fucking bravo mate. I don't bother replying or arguing to posts on NTR on any forum cause it just isn't worth it, but I might link this page in the future as a lazy way of doing that.
I will add one common scenario (a trope that would seek to explain or soften the blow to use your own words) that I see in many games and often stirs debate about what is and isn't NTR. And that is when both you IRL and player character in game know from the start that the object of your lust is a crazy huge slut. Queen Opala is a great example. Farah (the mother queen) fucks anything that moves, including animals. For gods sake she gave birth to a horse. A 'hard' rape scene is rather difficult to conjure with a character like this, unless its someone she despises for plot reasons. And yet you will also find people decrying these games as full of 'cuckoldry' and 'ntr' because many of the erotic scenes involve some demonic/animal/human 3rd party, rather than the player character himself fucking them.
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- Aug 9, 2016
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Thanks for the kind words. NTR a niche subject that stokes visceral anger in many due to either experience with or anxiety about the feelings the work is attempting to induce. This is probably why some of the discourse is both exhausting and simplistic as I'm sure you've seen first hand.Fucking bravo mate. I don't bother replying or arguing to posts on NTR on any forum cause it just isn't worth it, but I might link this page in the future as a lazy way of doing that.
I will add one common scenario (a trope that would seek to explain or soften the blow to use your own words) that I see in many games and often stirs debate about what is and isn't NTR. And that is when both you IRL and player character in game know from the start that the object of your lust is a crazy huge slut. Queen Opala is a great example. Farah (the mother queen) fucks anything that moves, including animals. For gods sake she gave birth to a horse. A 'hard' rape scene is rather difficult to conjure with a character like this, unless its someone she despises for plot reasons. And yet you will also find people decrying these games as full of 'cuckoldry' and 'ntr' because many of the erotic scenes involve some demonic/animal/human 3rd party, rather than the player character himself fucking them.
I think that the scenario you describe could be a framework for something like NTR and I would say it has the potential to be more in line with my take than "softening the blow" but could also not be NTR at all. It comes down to the disposition/actions of the player character.
If what you describe is from the point of view of a protagonist who IS jealous of the slut in question and IS threatened by the level of sexual deviance going on without him/her AND/OR tries to stop it and fails OR isn't really together with the slut character but WANTS to be and is trying to either seduce or control or "protect" that character from being a slut but failing... that could be NTR and it could even be really good NTR because, again, it's the agency of the sexual character that is driving the conflict and the protagonist character is in the position of attempting to prevent something but being ultimately powerless to do so.
On the other hand, if the point of view character doesn't care, isn't jealous, likes the behavior, and/or demands it, we're not talking about NTR anymore. However, I think the passions run high enough that people get triggered from things like that, perhaps by injecting their own jealousy even though it isn't voiced by the player character and/or interpreting the unavailability of the content in the game as a lack of control. The game might not be NTR, but the triggered player may make up the difference in their mind. Doesn't mean that they should be listened to or taken seriously. Those guys who can't see non-access to an object of desire without experiencing NTR probably have their own shit to deal with. A lot of it.
Most notable were all those idiots who decried the "public" content in Akabur's Princess Trainer and Witch Trainer games, eventually causing Akabur to make public content optional going forward. However, none of that public content was NTR or even cheating since the protagonist character demanded that Jasmine and Hermione go out and have sex with others. It's an extension of the dominance and control the protagonist is exerting over the object of desire, not the object utilizing their own agency to thwart the protagonist's control/dominance. Jasmine and Hermione's agency is gone and that's why they are having sex with whomsoever the protagonist tells them to.
Another example closer to your original was Azalea the stop girl in PT Gold. Even in the route where she had sex with all her customers regularly, her doing so was at the protagonist's direction and the protagonist was never denied sexual access to Azalea due to her own agency/choosiness/standards/desires. Had the scenes been written (and maybe there were dialogue routes that I don't recall now) where the protagonist, after the fact, tried to maintain exclusive sexual access to Azalea and failed or was rebuffed or ignored, that might be NTR depending on the protagonist's reaction to that.
tl;dr I think the distilled heart of NTR is about jealously, lack of control, and the agency of a desired sexual partner. Betrayal or humiliation are often in the mix as well though neiter are necessarily a requirement.
Those three things can be expressed in different kinds of scenarios, and I think the character already being "corrupted" as you point out can qualify as NTR still (and not even diluted NTR where the agency has been compromised) but if the writer makes an attempt to weaken or do away with any of those three things, it becomes less or not NTR.
PT Jasmine is not NTR because she has no agency, the genie controls her, and the genie never expresses jealousy towards jasmine when she's being whored out. When a girl is blackmailed or raped or drugged, it's less NTR because agency has been weakened/eliminated. When a character is a slut already, you could still have an NTR scenario if the point of view character is jealous and fails to control the object of desire because the whole point of her being a slut is that she is exercising her agency.
Agency + Failure or Inability to Control + Jealousy at Result = NTR
That's the base story engine and you can mess with the relative values, but it'll still be NTR if it has all those things and you can attach anything else to it or put it in any context and it will still be NTR... but if you get rid one or more of those three, you're probably doing something else.
- Jun 7, 2017
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I'm a huge fan of ntr (yes, i'm not ashamed lol), especially of great Japanese masters like Carn&Sanbun Kyoden. I played the game demo yesterday, here is my two cents; i liked the subject, the writing and the images. The only problem for me is that some sentences are too divided between pictures. For example, Becky says; "That is sweet, but not what happened. At all. Luck had nothing to do with it. I picked you because i like you." But to read it, you need to click 5 times altough you can easily fit this under one image. I don't know if it is done to make the game looks bigger (probably) but for me, it is kinda boring and frustrating.
- May 12, 2017
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here, in this thread, you are among people who share your same interest, no need to hide
funny thing a fetish, as much as i like ntr in game, movie and comix as much as i despise it in real life unless i'm the bull .. anyway, that is the kind of criticism that i like and I approve of that, i've never even though it as a problem but it could really be an improvement or at least something to think about.P.s. i'll raise your Carn & Sanbun Kyoden with Aoi Hitori
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- Aug 9, 2016
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Hmmm, I space out the text to allow more control the flow of dialogue rather than to add artificial length. It also gives me more opportunities to match the sprite expression/poses to a smaller piece of dialogue.
I've toyed around with having the clicks add text rather than replace it, but that doesn't really solve the clicking concern you have and actually would be padding the game from a wordcount metric.
I'll keep it in mind when going forward, though, and see if I can find a balance.
I've toyed around with having the clicks add text rather than replace it, but that doesn't really solve the clicking concern you have and actually would be padding the game from a wordcount metric.
I'll keep it in mind when going forward, though, and see if I can find a balance.