VN Ren'Py Completed Bare Witness [Ch. 5] [AlterWorlds]

[Porthas]

I'm right there with you when it comes to the roommates. Honestly think they are the worst LI in the game. Too contrived and quick... They don't know the MC really, they just met him face to face and Heidi is trying to get him to watch them fuck. Then if he doesn't she insults him. Nevermind that she had a stalker last year who became a problem which Athena had to scare off... Just don't feel like they make sense or behave in a logical manner. Pretty much everyone else I can see how they behave and understand it. Mora being my favorite (but then I am a sucker for a cute redhead). Anyway, being the stunt dick in an established "lesbian" relationship just doesn't appeal to me either.

LOL, yeah with Heidi, she straight up questions my heterosexuality if I'm not into watching two women going at it. There's a lot of reasons (some good one's you've already stated) that a straight dude isn't gonna be into that.

I'm gonna give the devs the benefit of the doubt and say that's a character moment and does not reflect their real-life attitudes... because if it is they're out of touch. I know I'm not the only straight dude not into that. I'm not saying I'm in any kind of majority, but I've seen other folks posting attitudes that I share.

Not that I have anything against lesbians or bisexuals. By all means, lesbian (or bisexual) away, in real life and in stories of all mediums. But I have no interest in watching it.

I *do* think the bisexual woman is a very convenient character/plot device (among many) that's over-used in the harem genre, and in stories in general. The Dragon Age 2 romances were one example. Bioware stepped away from that in Inquisition, which I think was a smart move - though that does of course create more work (and unique problems) for developers it also creates more believable characters. More believable characters generally makes for better immersion, maybe a better story.

 

[Deleted member 3250193]

I *do* think the bisexual woman is a very convenient character/plot device (among many) that's over-used in the harem genre, and in stories in general.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: bisexual women exist. The number of women in the US who acknowledge being bisexual has more than quadrupled in the past 10 years. They aren't mythical. They aren't a "plot device" any more than any straight woman in the game would be. If you dislike the notion of one of the girls in the game being bi, don't pursue her. I have bad news for you, however: many of the women I write into this game and future games will be bisexual. If that isn't your thing, no worries. Plenty of other games out there.

As for Heidi: she likes to provoke people. She's a shit-talker. I doubt she even believes that all straight men "must" like lesbians. She just said it to push MC's buttons. If you're a Heidi fan, buckle up because she ain't stopping.

On another note, chapter 3's script is 95% complete. Slockie is working on the third-from-last scene as I type this. Shouldn't be much longer before chapter 3 is complete and in the hands of beta testers.

 

[Bruce F. Lee]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: bisexual women exist. The number of women in the US who acknowledge being bisexual has more than quadrupled in the past 10 years. They aren't mythical. They aren't a "plot device" any more than any straight woman in the game would be. If you dislike the notion of one of the girls in the game being bi, don't pursue her. I have bad news for you, however: many of the women I write into this game and future games will be bisexual. If that isn't your thing, no worries. Plenty of other games out there.

As for Heidi: she likes to provoke people. She's a shit-talker. I doubt she even believes that all straight men "must" like lesbians. She just said it to push MC's buttons. If you're a Heidi fan, buckle up because she ain't stopping.

On another note, chapter 3's script is 95% complete. Slockie is working on the third-from-last scene as I type this. Shouldn't be much longer before chapter 3 is complete and in the hands of beta testers.

I've been in relationships with two women (and shared women with another man). While it's not the norm, it's not that uncommon. Polyamory is a real thing.

 

[Bruce F. Lee]

I'm glad to see some people coming around to my point of view. I talked about how Athena/Heidi are shitty LI's,and possibly the worst roommates in the world. People were responding like I was on crack. Lol

True story: I moved into a building with three apartments. Two lesbian (but in one case, actually bi) couples lived in the other two apartments. Within a week of moving in and befriending the bisexual woman, she set me up with a female friend of hers and told me that she (the bisexual woman) had already been fantasizing about a threesome with me and her friend. While this kind of thing isn't common, the Athena/Heidi storyline actually happens.

In my experience, virtually any relationship you could possibly think of has already happened somewhere at some time.

 

[Bruce F. Lee]

LOL, yeah with Heidi, she straight up questions my heterosexuality if I'm not into watching two women going at it. There's a lot of reasons (some good one's you've already stated) that a straight dude isn't gonna be into that.

I'm gonna give the devs the benefit of the doubt and say that's a character moment and does not reflect their real-life attitudes... because if it is they're out of touch. I know I'm not the only straight dude not into that. I'm not saying I'm in any kind of majority, but I've seen other folks posting attitudes that I share.

Not that I have anything against lesbians or bisexuals. By all means, lesbian (or bisexual) away, in real life and in stories of all mediums. But I have no interest in watching it.

I *do* think the bisexual woman is a very convenient character/plot device (among many) that's over-used in the harem genre, and in stories in general. The Dragon Age 2 romances were one example. Bioware stepped away from that in Inquisition, which I think was a smart move - though that does of course create more work (and unique problems) for developers it also creates more believable characters. More believable characters generally makes for better immersion, maybe a better story.

It's one thing to say that not all heterosexual men are into watching lesbian or bisexual women have sex. That's undoubtedly true as proven by your own position. But it's quite another to imply that the Heidi/Athena relationship is not "believable." It may disrupt immersion for you, because it's outside your fetish zone or experience, but that doesn't make it true for everyone. As I noted in another post, these types of relationships aren't that uncommon.

 

[UncleFredo]

True story: I moved into a building with three apartments. Two lesbian (but in one case, actually bi) couples lived in the other two apartments. Within a week of moving in and befriending the bisexual woman, she set me up with a female friend of hers and told me that she (the bisexual woman) had already been fantasizing about a threesome with me and her friend. While this kind of thing isn't common, the Athena/Heidi storyline actually happens.

In my experience, virtually any relationship you could possibly think of has already happened somewhere at some time.

This is certainly true. Think of it this way. Of the 6 or so billion people living on the planet, if only .5% fall into any sexual kink that's 30 million people, roughly one tenth the population of the USA. So yes virtually any fantasy has happened, continues to happen, and will continue to happen until homo sapiens depart the planet.

 

[Deleted member 3250193]

I've been in relationships with two women (and shared women with another man). While it's not the norm, it's not that uncommon. Polyamory is a real thing.

Same here. I just didn't want to brag about the number of threesomes I've had. I see you had no such compunction.

 

[Bruce F. Lee]

Same here. I just didn't want to brag about the number of threesomes I've had. I see you had no such compunction.

Ha! I didn’t think of it as bragging. I think the biggest impediment to having a threesome is not being open minded. I suspect lots of men who haven’t done it could if they really wanted to. For example, being willing to strike up a friendship with a lesbian couple.

 

[UncleFredo]

Ha! I didn’t think of it as bragging. I think the biggest impediment to having a threesome is not being open minded. I suspect lots of men who haven’t done it could if they really wanted to. For example, being willing to strike up a friendship with a lesbian couple.

I experienced the opposite. I struck up a friendship with a lesbian couple. One of them, because of their involvement with me, became dissatisfied and took up with and eventually married another man who had no relationship with me or her former "spouse".

Last I heard her spouse found someone else. The woman who moved on is happily married with a couple of kids (now young adults). Go figure. People and their relationships are more wacky and diverse than any of us can imagine.

 

[Porthas]

It's one thing to say that not all heterosexual men are into watching lesbian or bisexual women have sex. That's undoubtedly true as proven by your own position. But it's quite another to imply that the Heidi/Athena relationship is not "believable." It may disrupt immersion for you, because it's outside your fetish zone or experience, but that doesn't make it true for everyone. As I noted in another post, these types of relationships aren't that uncommon.

First, I never said that their relationship wasn't believable. It is believable. I said the bisexual thing is used too much in gaming.

Second, there's absolutely no data to support that bisexuals or lesbians are common. They are both in the vast minority of occurrences. Heterosexuality is the norm, by a HUGE margin. That's just a fact.

That, of course, doesn't devalue bisexuality or lesbianism. There's nothing wrong with either of them. But they're not, by any factual measure, common.

You must be registered to see the links

Games, of course, don't have to reflect real life. In fact they usually over-represent on purpose to facilitate sexual fantasies. The vast majority of games I've seen on this site feature lesbians and/or bisexuals. Probably because there's a lot of straight guys who like to watch women have sex with each other. There's nothing wrong with that. But there also wouldn't be anything wrong with a few more games that catered to folks who aren't into lesbian or bisexual sex.

 

[Havenless_]

Ha! I didn’t think of it as bragging. I think the biggest impediment to having a threesome is not being open minded. I suspect lots of men who haven’t done it could if they really wanted to. For example, being willing to strike up a friendship with a lesbian couple.

The biggest impediment to having a threesome is not wanting to have one. lol

Seriously speaking, is being open minded the first step to having a threesome? Surely. But it doesn't all come down to that. I think there are many more factors. I don't want to say that having a threesome is the hardest thing in the world, but it's also not like "Tonight I want to have a threesome. I'll go to my favorite bar and I'm sure I'll get it."

I know we're not here to talk about our sex life. So i'll be brief.
In my case, the proposals I've been approached about having a threesome are many. But I don't say that to brag. On the contrary, I think the reason it happens to me is because I'm a lesbian and, I don't know, maybe people think that just because I'm a lesbian I'm very open-minded and I'm going to agree without a problem. Precisely, the only threesome I've had was with a lesbian couple like Heidi and Athena. Interestingly, about a year ago they both broke up and I started "dating" one of them. And, currently, I am still seeing that girl, but the three of us have a very good friendly relationship. But I swear I had nothing to do with their breakup.

Anyway, what I mean by this is that being open-minded does not mean having to accept everything, including things you are not comfortable with. I understand that if you want to have a threesome but you're a somewhat picky and demanding person, it's harder for you to have the possibility of having one. But, if you're not comfortable with certain conditions, you don't have to feel obligated to accept it.

What excites me most about threesomes/group sex in a harem game is that the girls focus on the protagonist. But, both in real life and in a relationship like the one Heidi, Athena and the MC have, what excites me most is the pleasure of all 3 equally.

 

[Porthas]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: bisexual women exist. The number of women in the US who acknowledge being bisexual has more than quadrupled in the past 10 years. They aren't mythical. They aren't a "plot device" any more than any straight woman in the game would be. If you dislike the notion of one of the girls in the game being bi, don't pursue her. I have bad news for you, however: many of the women I write into this game and future games will be bisexual. If that isn't your thing, no worries. Plenty of other games out there.

As for Heidi: she likes to provoke people. She's a shit-talker. I doubt she even believes that all straight men "must" like lesbians. She just said it to push MC's buttons. If you're a Heidi fan, buckle up because she ain't stopping.

On another note, chapter 3's script is 95% complete. Slockie is working on the third-from-last scene as I type this. Shouldn't be much longer before chapter 3 is complete and in the hands of beta testers.

I didn't say that bisexual women don't exist. One reason they're in a lot of games so often is that they're put in games because they're "easier" to work a story around. Instead of having to design, code, and write a story for 2 women (or men) you can fill in with one person. Dragon Age 2 is a prime example of this, and it's not the only example.

This cookie-cutter approach saves time and work, and it's used in other aspects of gaming, not just bisexuality. In Mass Effect, you have Ash, Tali, etc, often saying the exact same lines during points in the story. It's also used in sandbox, lines repeated over and over, sex scenes repeated over and over.

This side-argument about how rare (or not rare) bisexuals are never really was the focus of my point. The cookie-cutter angle is what I was addressing. Bioware acknowledged the problem and changed their approach in Inquisition (just one example) and in my opinion it made each character more unique. I also would like to see more FFM stuff with less lesbian action. It's jut not my thing. It may never happen, that's fine, just putting the feedback out there in case anybody's interested.

And of course, I don't demand anything from any developer. I support you making the game you want. If you're interested in my (or others) feedback, that's great. If not, that's great. If I was making a game, I'd want to make the game I want to make and I wouldn't want to feel pushed around. So if I made anybody feel pushed around, that was not my intent.

Edit: Also, I do like Heidi, she's growing on me. There's a lot of things I like about the game, I tried it out. My review would be positive, at this point.

 

[Bruce F. Lee]

First, I never said that their relationship wasn't believable. It is believable. I said the bisexual thing is used too much in gaming.

Second, there's absolutely no data to support that bisexuals or lesbians are common. They are both in the vast minority of occurrences. Heterosexuality is the norm, by a HUGE margin. That's just a fact.

That, of course, doesn't devalue bisexuality or lesbianism. There's nothing wrong with either of them. But they're not, by any factual measure, common.

You must be registered to see the links

Games, of course, don't have to reflect real life. In fact they usually over-represent on purpose to facilitate sexual fantasies. The vast majority of games I've seen on this site feature lesbians and/or bisexuals. Probably because there's a lot of straight guys who like to watch women have sex with each other. There's nothing wrong with that. But there also wouldn't be anything wrong with a few more games that catered to folks who aren't into lesbian or bisexual sex.

All fair points.

 

[Deleted member 3250193]

So was Valeria basically realizing he was BS'ing or do you(developer) think I-40 actually goes through Denver?

I've driven the entire length of I-40. So, no, I don't think it goes through Denver. Nor does Valeria.

Good catch, by the way. You're only the second person to have noticed that and spoken up.

 

[BlasKyau]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: bisexual women exist. The number of women in the US who acknowledge being bisexual has more than quadrupled in the past 10 years. They aren't mythical. They aren't a "plot device" any more than any straight woman in the game would be. If you dislike the notion of one of the girls in the game being bi, don't pursue her. I have bad news for you, however: many of the women I write into this game and future games will be bisexual. If that isn't your thing, no worries. Plenty of other games out there.

I don't care that one, several or all of the LIs are bisexual. In any case, lesbian sex bores me (in video games and in real life), it gives me more or less the same feeling of excitement as seeing a table, a box or a colored marker (none at all, in case there was any doubt). It isn't likely that I will see the lesbian scenes, if there is no other way, I will skip them by activating the option "skip unseen text" and I will use CTRL not to see them, but the truth is that I don't care too much that they are there.

 

[ZakAttak]

Everything will be optional. Absolutely no NTR. There will be incest and pregnancy in the game later on in the story. Not sure if we have anything else planned, guess we'll just figure it out as we go.

You had me at "Absolutely no NTR" You, sir or ma'am, or whatever designation you prefer, are my newest hero!

 

[Deleted member 3250193]

You had me at "Absolutely no NTR" You, sir or ma'am, or whatever designation you prefer, are my newest hero!

Slockie is so anti-NTR that he's shot down a bunch of my story ideas because they had the barest hint of women (some not even love interests) with other guys, or interested in other guys.

I was pretty disappointed that I wouldn't be able to get my "bros fist-bumping while getting head from their girls" scene in this chapter.

 

[Penepolla1945]

Amazing so far

 

[Havenless_]

Slockie is so anti-NTR that he's shot down a bunch of my story ideas because they had the barest hint of women (some not even love interests) with other guys, or interested in other guys.

I was pretty disappointed that I wouldn't be able to get my "bros fist-bumping while getting head from their girls" scene in this chapter.

Slockie is the anti-NTR? Ah, perfect. I already have my favorite among you guys.


I'd rather "Sis fist-bumping while getting fucked by the MC" scenes.

 

[ZakAttak]

I've driven the entire length of I-40. So, no, I don't think it goes through Denver. Nor does Valeria.

Good catch, by the way. You're only the second person to have noticed that and spoken up.

IIRC I-40 goes thru New Mexico and Arizona and probably Texas too...