VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

That's a stepping stone not the story. If it was the story we would be done already.

She doesn't have the free tuition she want's the free tuition. She must have had funds/loans to get in otherwise she wouldn't be there.

Sage as far as the story has shown us has no involvement in either. So why would she suffer lasting harm? Like I said minor, temporary hiccups.

for now it seems that if Maya does not obtain the free tuition she will be forced to return under the control of her father (all quite smoky)

a drug scandal would hardly not touch the president of the sorority involved, at least as a charge, but an expulsion / suspension wouldn't be strange

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

I think it isn't very hard to imagine how particularly Maya and Sage could end up with some very serious problems as a result of this. Sage is the president of the HOTs and responsible for what her members do; a drug ring being run out of her sorority house could easily implicate her, and that sort of big fiasco in the news could follow her for some time, impact her job prospects, or straight up bring her criminal liability.

Maya is exactly set up for Quinn to be able to ruin her life, being desperate and (mostly or totally) obvious to what's going on, and a situation where she's set up to take the fall legally or disciplinarily is very likely, and she is extremely isolated, lacks a family to support her or fund defense, etc.

Both of those characters personally have a lot at stake. Further, because those characters (mostly Maya) have relationships with most of the other characters, MCs actions in regards to Maya's situation are going to reflect on MC with those people; a path where you let Maya go down because you want to be with Josy isn't very realistic, is it?

As I mentioned, the biggest challenge with that scenario is tying in Jill and Isabella in a meaningful way, but having it be as simple as whether MC is doing the right thing and/or whether MC is friends with the right people (given Jill's rather naive background, Isabella's overprotective instincts, and Jill being from an environment where reputation and image are extremely important) is probably enough to introduce some significant tension in that relationship as well. Jill is, if anything, the LI most consistently set up on a moral axis where a MC who does the right thing does well in her eyes and one that does not loses out.

You don't seem like you have a very good grasp of the real life consequences of some of this stuff.

I actually do. Look at all big crimes. The person responsible goes to jail/prison not the innocent people dragged in. Unless Quinn lies to involve Sage she wouldn't be held legally responsible. The President of a frat/sorority isn't really responsible for the actions of everyone in the organization. Look at all the cases involving members that don't involve everyone getting punished.

You've watched movies, yes? TV shows too, I'd suspect. Well, this sort of thing happen all the time in fiction; something from outside the protagonist's sphere enters it causing chaos and forcing the character into having to deal with it whether they like it or not. It's much like the "Hero's Journey", a storytelling concept written about by Joseph Campbell and has been used as the basis for many stories, most notably Star Wars. At some point there will be a "call to adventure/action" and the protagonist can either refuse it or accept it, but they will generally always accept even if they initially refuse because its necessary for the story progression that they answer the call.

So really, it's not about what we want, it's about what the story dictates, and if the story dictates that the MC will be drawn into helping Quinn in order to help others, then that's what's going to happen.

I actually don't watch a lot of either because the bs drama forced stuff drives me nuts.

 

[Carnagie]

I thought Chad was just coming out of the closet (gay), huh.

No, wait, gotta think college-story narrative. Big brain thought, the girl Chad has fallen for is the cute nerd girl that's dating the head of the Triple Betas!

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

for now it seems that if Maya does not obtain the free tuition she will be forced to return under the control of her father (all quite smoky)

a drug scandal would hardly not touch the president of the sorority involved, at least as a charge, but an expulsion / suspension wouldn't be strange

Touch yes but result in actual punishment if she wasnt actually involved? Thats to use your words "smoky".

 

[Phynix]

a path where you let Maya go down because you want to be with Josy isn't very realistic, is it?

It may not be realistic but in theory the path for it is there. Don't warn her about Quinn, choose to be friends with M&J and then pick Josy over her. Add that to your points of her being isolated and not exactly a strong-willed person and the stage is set.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Touch yes but result in actual punishment if she wasnt actually involved? Thats to use your words "smoky".

sorry

I meant not very clear, the relationship between Maya and her father, although important for the consequences it had, has never been clarified in my opinion


If Quinn did not confess that she was the sole trafficker, Sage would certainly be involved in the circle of suspects.
the drug is probably in the HOTs dorm, not necessarily in Quinn's room, and was peddled at events where the HOTs were present
It is not clear where the money from the sale goes, but it would also seem in the free tuition
it would be up to Sage to prove that she was a stranger to the matter

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

So what's the difference? All the dik crap with the Apha's is forced on us. It's telling a story. No having a go there btw or being condescending, but that's what it is. You have no choice but to do it because that is the story being told. every single story out there is like this.

The only alternative, is to write something yourself so completely free-form you will never finish it. A story has to have end somewhere, at some point in sight right?

Yet it's something I agree with. The AAA's are set up as antagonists that I can see why I should feel that way. They are bullies as the MC gets bullied by them so I FEEL that. Invested? Yes. A logical/emotional assumption that works. Quinn selling drugs and pimping out her fellow sisters is not something that I can become invested in because I feel Quinn is a pos. The difference is that parts of it work and parts of it don't and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[zoyle]

How is it making clear that Melanie is the girl Chad cheats on Sage? Maybe I missed a key line in that scene but I didn't get it so it would be nice if you can elaborate this please

After the Sage/MC makeout scene is over:

Sarah: No, you hide a side bitch, you don't kiss them passionately out in the open
Sarah: Not when you're in a relationship
Melanie:...
Sarah: This will make it easier when Chad breaks up with her.
Melanie: I'm gonna go call him.
Sarah: Easier..but Sage will still be furious.
Melanie, with hand on her neck and changed expression: If things every go south..you'll have my back, right?
Sarah: Don't I always?
Melanie: I'll always have yours, too.
(scene ends)

I don't know how you read that and don't think it's implying Melanie is the one (pretty strongly, really).

 

[zoyle]

Yet it's something I agree with. The AAA's are set up as antagonists that I can see why I should feel that way. They are bullies as the MC gets bullied by them so I FEEL that. Invested? Yes. A logical/emotional assumption that works. Quinn selling drugs and pimping out her fellow sisters is not something that I can become invested in because I feel Quinn is a pos. The difference is that parts of it work and parts of it don't and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

You're supposed to care about what Quinn is doing because her victims are going to be the MCs closest friends and/or girlfriends, depending on your previous choices, both of whom (but particularly Maya, the one at the most risk) have done a lot of shit to save your own ass. The call to action will be for MC to protect the people he cares about from being damaged by the fallout of Quinn's operation, and protect the relationship he wants in the process.

I don't think you have the foggiest idea of what the life consequences of, say, being charged with drug possession or accessory to drug distribution, have on a person (at least in the United States).

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

You're supposed to care about what Quinn is doing because her victims are going to be the MCs closest friends and/or girlfriends, depending on your previous choices, both of whom (but particularly Maya, the one at the most risk) have done a lot of shit to save your own ass. The call to action will be for MC to protect the people he cares about from being damaged by the fallout of Quinn's operation, and protect the relationship he wants in the process.

I don't think you have the foggiest idea of what the life consequences of, say, being charged with drug possession or accessory to drug distribution, have on a person (at least in the United States).

I bet I have a pretty realistic idea of what the above means for someone. Without knowing your life I don't know if you do.

Accessory means you have actual involvement with the above listed crimes. Being the president of the house doesnt make you an accessory

 

[Pewdiepie9966]

If things every go south..you'll have my back, right?

As in, Sage finds out Melanie was the one contacting Chad and telling him about her relationship with MC, she'll get furious. Maybe Melanie and Sarah are plotting something against Sage, she showed in the past that she don't condone Quinn's action, so they try to get rid of her, maybe? Chad's side chick could be anyone really

 

[zoyle]

I bet I have a pretty realistic idea of what the above means for someone. Without knowing your life I don't know if you do.

Accessory means you have actual involvement with the above listed crimes. Being the president of the house doesnt make you an accessory

Do you have any idea how unlikely university administration and law enforcement would be to believe that the president of a sorority didn't know that one of their own officers was running a drug and prostitution ring right out of her own house? And if the girls involved say that Sage knew (which they have every incentive of, because it means she takes more of the fall), there's almost no one available to testify that she didn't know - it would be her word against theirs, in a situation where she is responsible for their actions. At the very least, it could get her expelled before she graduates or the HOT fraternity disbanded entirely (it is objectively a more serious offense than, say, the naked picture of Cathy that the DIKs are so worried about). Legal culpability is somewhat more nebulous, but she would definitely be charged and have to defend herself and have her reputation tainted, and would probably have a difficult time if the other defendants all claimed she knew (and, in fact, most law enforcement would offer plea deals to the regular girls in order to take down the ringleader, and they could easily believe Quinn is acting at Sage's instruction if Quinn claims thus).

And you should probably go back and replay the section at the end of Episode 4 where Derek meets with Maya and she then tells the MC 'nope, I HAVE to do this HOT thing and get the free tuition, I dont have any choice or any other options, i NEED it'. Every piece of evidence we've been given is that Maya's parents don't accept her lesbian orientation, and it's clear she believes they won't pay (or won't continue to pay) for her education. That may or may not be true, but the character Maya clearly believes it is true. She is going to get pressured and she is going to agree to do things she shouldn't do, and it will just be a question of whether (or even if its possible) for the MC to prevent her from making the mistakes, or make her hesitate via their prior warnings.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I actually don't watch a lot of either because the bs drama forced stuff drives me nuts.

But every single form of fictional media, whether it's movies, TV shows, video games, books, comic books, or adult games, inherently has "bs drama forced stuff" because it is in the very nature of storytelling, so you can't really avoid this when it comes to fiction. You have to accept that certain things will happen that are outside of your control and that these things may involve something that might seem to you to be "illogical", or that you're not that invested in and can easily resolved by the character just not getting involved, but that would be boring and result in a much less entertaining story.

Whether you care about Quinn and her situation is irrelevant because it matters to the story, and if there were to be a decision later in the game where you can let her die, then you make that decision at that time, but until then we'll likely have to be part of her narrative.

 

[zoyle]

As in, Sage finds out Melanie was the one contacting Chad and telling him about her relationship with MC, she'll get furious. Maybe Melanie and Sarah are plotting something against Sage, she showed in the past that she don't condone Quinn's action, so they try to get rid of her, maybe? Chad's side chick could be anyone really

I guess its true people see what they want in any art, but I thought it was pretty clear to me that this scene was establishing that Melanie is the girl Chad's been seeing, and that she and Sarah think this will be the thing that goads Chad to break up with Sage so that Melanie can have him (since he can claim he was in the right and she was cheating on him, and he hates the MC very a lot). Breaking up with a boyfriend isn't going to take Sage down as president of the sorority, and that plotline is already going on w/ Heather/Riona having a conversation earlier in the chapter.

As with anything, I guess, many options are possible, but I think this dialogue is pretty direct in the purpose it's serving, as well as illustrating how completely isolated Sage is inside her own group - since Mona and Camila are also new pledges, it doesn't appear that there's a single named member of the HOTs who isn't involved in something or other behind her back (I guess Arieth, since she's comic relief idiot). Come to think of it, I think it's actually reasonably likely that Sage will need the new pledges to work out as members in order to have any sort of base of support that isn't compromised by either Heather or Quinn.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Do you have any idea how unlikely university administration and law enforcement would be to believe that the president of a sorority didn't know that one of their own officers was running a drug and prostitution ring right out of her own house? And if the girls involved say that Sage knew (which they have every incentive of, because it means she takes more of the fall), there's almost no one available to testify that she didn't know - it would be her word against theirs, in a situation where she is responsible for their actions. At the very least, it could get her expelled before she graduates or the HOT fraternity disbanded entirely (it is objectively a more serious offense than, say, the naked picture of Cathy that the DIKs are so worried about). Legal culpability is somewhat more nebulous, but she would definitely be charged and have to defend herself and have her reputation tainted, and would probably have a difficult time if the other defendants all claimed she knew (and, in fact, most law enforcement would offer plea deals to the regular girls in order to take down the ringleader, and they could easily believe Quinn is acting at Sage's instruction if Quinn claims thus).

And you should probably go back and replay the section at the end of Episode 4 where Derek meets with Maya and she then tells the MC 'nope, I HAVE to do this HOT thing and get the free tuition, I dont have any choice or any other options, i NEED it'. Every piece of evidence we've been given is that Maya's parents don't accept her lesbian orientation, and it's clear she believes they won't pay (or won't continue to pay) for her education. That may or may not be true, but the character Maya clearly believes it is true. She is going to get pressured and she is going to agree to do things she shouldn't do, and it will just be a question of whether (or even if its possible) for the MC to prevent her from making the mistakes, or make her hesitate via their prior warnings.

Believe is one thing able to prove is something else. Granted you are right that the HOT's could all lie and say Sage was involved but witness testimony is normally the easiest thing to get thrown out. As soon as the stories start to show errors or differences then you can trip them up and get them nailed for perjury/false statements which can have serious legal ramifications.

 

[Darkdevil66]

Yet it's something I agree with. The AAA's are set up as antagonists that I can see why I should feel that way. They are bullies as the MC gets bullied by them so I FEEL that. Invested? Yes. A logical/emotional assumption that works. Quinn selling drugs and pimping out her fellow sisters is not something that I can become invested in because I feel Quinn is a pos. The difference is that parts of it work and parts of it don't and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

But your personal appreciation for a character is completely irrelevant for the sake of the story. If you don't feel invested, it's your personal issue pal. Like it or not, Quinn is a central character and the drugs business is a central part of the story. DPC doesn't have to drop it just because you or others players can't stand her character, just like he doesn't have to make M&J completly dissapear because a part of fandom can't stand them anymore. According to some here, he should even drop the D&D sequence because "it's too fan service" and "not relevant enough".

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

but if every character is justified in doing what he likes, as a player, what interest do I have in thinking about what to do with each proposed choice?

Why if I don't care about Jill, she still has to be a constant threat to my every approach to Bella?

why if MC just kissed Josy before he went to college, he got to be put out by Maya?

if everything has to go like this what do I choose to do?




that's not quite the case

if in AL you are very loyal to Megan you don't have to choose who to save, rightly so.

the scene loses much of the dramatic sense, Melissa is ultimately Megan's best friend, not MC's. and in fact it is one of the least engaging endings (even less than the one done badly for Rena)

the story is much more complete in the case of "mini harem" and that's the story that DPC had in mind.

but if as a player you are interested in Melissa you have to betray Megan's trust. DPC knows this and lets you get away with it, but there is no narrative reason

That's something I didn't like about AL, Melissa's route felt wrong. I hope we don't get anything similar here, but Jill and Bella are starting to look awfully similar...

I thought Chad was just coming out of the closet (gay), huh.

No, wait, gotta think college-story narrative. Big brain thought, the girl Chad has fallen for is the cute nerd girl that's dating the head of the Triple Betas!

Believe it or not you're not the first one to suggest that one...

After the Sage/MC makeout scene is over:

Sarah: No, you hide a side bitch, you don't kiss them passionately out in the open
Sarah: Not when you're in a relationship
Melanie:...
Sarah: This will make it easier when Chad breaks up with her.
Melanie: I'm gonna go call him.
Sarah: Easier..but Sage will still be furious.
Melanie, with hand on her neck and changed expression: If things every go south..you'll have my back, right?
Sarah: Don't I always?
Melanie: I'll always have yours, too.
(scene ends)

I don't know how you read that and don't think it's implying Melanie is the one (pretty strongly, really).

We know she wasn't the one Chad was talking at the phone when we were sneaking around, because she was in the gym training. That pretty much rules her out.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

But your personal appreciation for a character is completely irrelevant for the sake of the story. If you don't feel invested, it's your personal issue pal. Like it or not, Quinn is a central character and the drugs business is a central part of the story. DPC doesn't have to drop it just because you or others players can't stand her character, just like he doesn't have to make M&J completly dissapear because a part of fandom can't stand them anymore. According to some here, he should even drop the D&D sequence because "it's too fan service" and "not relevant enough".

Calm down. No one has said anything about dropping Quinn. I am just pointing out that parts of the story dont make a lot of sense. Thats the whole point of these discussions. Just because you don't like my "devil's advocate" post doesn't give you a right to call me "pal" and be condescending. I realize its part of the story but that doesn't mean I need to like it. Its just part I have to deal with. Jeez take a chill pill already

 

[zoyle]

But your personal appreciation for a character is completely irrelevant for the sake of the story. If you don't feel invested, it's your personal issue pal. Like it or not, Quinn is a central character and the drugs business is a central part of the story. DPC doesn't have to drop it just because you or others players can't stand her character, just like he doesn't have to make M&J completly dissapear because a part of fandom can't stand them anymore. According to some here, he should even drop the D&D sequence because "it's too fan service" and "not relevant enough".

Honestly when I read his comment, the thing that I kept thinking is that it's apparent the OP has a hard time empathizing with consequences for other characters instead of the MC serving as his own avatar. The AAA and others are bullies to the MC, so the player feels like the target, whereas Quinn is kind of a bitch to the MC, but is mostly a threat to other characters, especially the character who is integrated into the plot to the degree that you're expected to care what happens to her (Maya).

I think it says more about the poster than the quality of the storyline or the creation.

 

[Pewdiepie9966]

I guess its true people see what they want in any art, but I thought it was pretty clear to me that this scene was establishing that Melanie is the girl Chad's been seeing, and that she and Sarah think this will be the thing that goads Chad to break up with Sage so that Melanie can have him (since he can claim he was in the right and she was cheating on him, and he hates the MC very a lot). Breaking up with a boyfriend isn't going to take Sage down as president of the sorority, and that plotline is already going on w/ Heather/Riona having a conversation earlier in the chapter.

As with anything, I guess, many options are possible, but I think this dialogue is pretty direct in the purpose it's serving, as well as illustrating how completely isolated Sage is inside her own group - since Mona and Camila are also new pledges, it doesn't appear that there's a single named member of the HOTs who isn't involved in something or other behind her back (I guess Arieth, since she's comic relief idiot). Come to think of it, I think it's actually reasonably likely that Sage will need the new pledges to work out as members in order to have any sort of base of support that isn't compromised by either Heather or Quinn.

Fair enough, don't gonna say that you are wrong cause it's your theory nonetheless. It can go either way for me: Chad's sidechick being one of the HOTs or one relatively close to the MC or one who has nothing to do with the MC. Maybe it just depends on our choice to help Sage finding the sidechick or not